Potential dangers of kratom

[Ebumbu]

4 hours ago, KannikaP said:

I have had pain in my shoulders for several years. Tried all forms of massage, injections, acupuncture, ointments etc etc, to no avail.

Bought some kratom leaves from Lazada, chopped 12 leaves in my food processor with 600 ml water in my French coffee press. Into microwave for 4 minutes until just boiling, let it cool. 

Two swigs before bed last night, no noticeable euphoria, and more importantly NO PAIN. Will do same again tonight.

 

Were they dried or fresh leaves? Thanks. 

[KannikaP]

8 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Were they dried or fresh leaves? Thanks. 

Fresh. I washed then froze the ones I did not use.

500gm @Bht 170

 

[richard_smith237]

Wifey just popped down the road to nearly a shop on the street to get me some 'pre-made' potion....

Quite an interesting visit for her, some very helpful locals in the shop coming out of the woodwork to give her advice.

 

So, I have this green, disgusting looking, bitter tasting mixture.... 

 

I've had a 5 small 50ml glasses over about an hour and the 'woosy head' feeling kicked in...

... its a little bit like being drunk without the taste pleasures of a fine single Malt, rather the opposite in fact.

 

.... The Pain killing side definitely works - and I'm really glad I have paid attention the comments of those on this forum and this thread, I can relax a little more without having to hit the Tramadol up to the permitted limits (which didn't seem to do a lot).

 

BUT....  I also had a 'spinney feeling'...  like a loss of balance, head spinning slightly, which when mild is not discomforting, but it has lead to wooziness  and made me feel a little nauseous...    I just chunderred !!!  - Wife concerned, Mother in Law (who is also staying) somewhat entertained at her 'Western Son in Law going in for the local potion'....     turns out, MiL is a dark horse, much to my Wife's surprise, Both MiL and FiL have been making 'tea' out of the leaves.....  Good on em !!...  

 

Wife is very cautious about me taking this course of medication which is not 'prescribed by a major International hospital'...   

.... but the pain-killing aspect makes this work perusing....    I just have to be careful going to the loo when I'm partially immobilised (injury)... 

 

I just have to work out the 'ideal dose' to hit that pain killing sweet-spot. 

 

Wife was told this stuff is going to keep me awake....  (its good for work etc)... But to be honest, I could take a nap right now !!!... 

 

 

Anyway - thanks all for the info and advice. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deerculler]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:18 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thank for your advice Jack & Lacessit.... 

 

I did read somewhere that many of the Krathom sellers are getting 'caught out' not for selling Krathom which is legal, but for the 'other stuff' they are adding to it, the 'mixture' gets tested and if it contains some thing extra...   but, I too wonder if thats actually a reality as why would they add anything extra and charge so little.

 

I'll get the Wife to pop down the road and get a bottle and give it a try... 

That is what worries me buy it from a unknown souce.

[Lacessit]

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Wifey just popped down the road to nearly a shop on the street to get me some 'pre-made' potion....

Quite an interesting visit for her, some very helpful locals in the shop coming out of the woodwork to give her advice.

 

So, I have this green, disgusting looking, bitter tasting mixture.... 

 

I've had a 5 small 50ml glasses over about an hour and the 'woosy head' feeling kicked in...

... its a little bit like being drunk without the taste pleasures of a fine single Malt, rather the opposite in fact.

 

.... The Pain killing side definitely works - and I'm really glad I have paid attention the comments of those on this forum and this thread, I can relax a little more without having to hit the Tramadol up to the permitted limits (which didn't seem to do a lot).

 

BUT....  I also had a 'spinney feeling'...  like a loss of balance, head spinning slightly, which when mild is not discomforting, but it has lead to wooziness  and made me feel a little nauseous...    I just chunderred !!!  - Wife concerned, Mother in Law (who is also staying) somewhat entertained at her 'Western Son in Law going in for the local potion'....     turns out, MiL is a dark horse, much to my Wife's surprise, Both MiL and FiL have been making 'tea' out of the leaves.....  Good on em !!...  

 

Wife is very cautious about me taking this course of medication which is not 'prescribed by a major International hospital'...   

.... but the pain-killing aspect makes this work perusing....    I just have to be careful going to the loo when I'm partially immobilised (injury)... 

 

I just have to work out the 'ideal dose' to hit that pain killing sweet-spot. 

 

Wife was told this stuff is going to keep me awake....  (its good for work etc)... But to be honest, I could take a nap right now !!!... 

 

 

Anyway - thanks all for the info and advice. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would suggest reducing the dosage. Also, filter through a piece of cloth so you are only drinking the extract. The leaf residue may be irritating your stomach.

As you say, it's a matter of getting the dose right. It sounds like your brew is pretty strong.

[Hummin]

The home breweries I have seen, does not see very hygienic neither those who making it. 

 

Be aware there is 750 different strains with different strenghts and affect on you. Some is better for pain, other gives you the highes, do your homework before you experiment to much.

[The Old Bull]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:56 PM, Ebumbu said:

 

Line Shopping. Search for red Kratom. It lifts mood and suppresses pain to an extent I didn't believe possible. 

You can buy online from that outfit that sells weed. Pay with my phone app delivered next day.

[NickyLouie]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:42 AM, KannikaP said:

I have had pain in my shoulders for several years. Tried all forms of massage, injections, acupuncture, ointments etc etc, to no avail.

Bought some kratom leaves from Lazada, chopped 12 leaves in my food processor with 600 ml water in my French coffee press. Into microwave for 4 minutes until just boiling, let it cool. 

Two swigs before bed last night, no noticeable euphoria, and more importantly NO PAIN. Will do same again tonight.

 

Yes it's an opioid, nature's original pain killer.

Addictive also.  

[NickyLouie]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:43 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

.... but the pain-killing aspect makes this work perusing....    I just have to be careful going to the loo when I'm partially immobilised (injury)... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buy the fresh leaves and brew your own - add honey to taste, the local mixtures have ephedrine and often just cough syrup mixed into them.

You're never too old to become a junkie so don't worry. 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, NickyLouie said:

 

Buy the fresh leaves and brew your own - add honey to taste, the local mixtures have ephedrine and often just cough syrup mixed into them.

You're never too old to become a junkie so don't worry. 

 

 

Cheers... I'll give that ago...  Any advice on 'which leaves to buy' (given the 750 strains comment made by Hummin) ??

 

I have been conscious that extra stuff  may be in the mix...  But the lady my Wife spoke with said it was just Kratom only.

Also, for 50 baht or whatever it is, I don't suppose its economically viable to add extra stuff - but we never know.

 

I tried the local mix...  but certainly over did it and threw up....      quite entertaining... Mother in Law who visiting found it hilarious !!!.... then admitted to trying some Marijuana gummies at a dinner party the other night, much to the shock of my Wife !!!... 

 

Got to love it when more moderate attitudes to these things surface.... 

 

 

12 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

Yes it's an opioid, nature's original pain killer.

Addictive also.  

 

Yep, I'm quite conscious of that that..  so will be careful...    But, I also have loads of 'sleep tablets' Xanax and Clonazepam, which both work really well for sleep, but also habitually addictive, so I'm already careful with those too which is why I'm interested in the alternatives such as 'gummies' and Kratom...    and then once I'm physically able to again, just knackering myself out with exercise. 

 

Usually, for me my only vice is beer / wine / whisky.... but after recent surgery I'm happy to cut back on the booze and take alternative measures - I'm confident in the knowledge that I have the mental discipline to dabble without going down a rabbit hole (I suppose every junkie said that at the beginning too - but I'm open with my Wife about what I'm taking too, so she can also point out if she thinks I'm doing too much)....

 

 

9 hours ago, Hummin said:

The home breweries I have seen, does not see very hygienic neither those who making it. 

 

Be aware there is 750 different strains with different strenghts and affect on you. Some is better for pain, other gives you the highes, do your homework before you experiment to much.

 

This makes me wonder... I'm not really into 'experimenting for the best hit'.... I'm more interested in something that acts as a decent pain relief...  and I don't care if it gives me a high or not.

 

As far as doing 'home work'.... I wouldn't know where to start, what resources to even look at for which strain to take.... 

 

But - I'm happy to take advice on here from those with greater experience... i.e. 

List of vendors with specific types that are considered best for pain relief etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

This makes me wonder... I'm not really into 'experimenting for the best hit'.... I'm more interested in something that acts as a decent pain relief...  and I don't care if it gives me a high or not.

 

As far as doing 'home work'.... I wouldn't know where to start, what resources to even look at for which strain to take.... 

 

But - I'm happy to take advice on here from those with greater experience... i.e. 

List of vendors with specific types that are considered best for pain relief etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Takes a google search only, and look through some of the reliable sourches there. A few good articles here 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=kratom+thailand+pain+relief&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgCECMYJxjqAhiLBDIGCAAQRRg6MgYIARAAGEAyDAgCECMYJxjqAhiLBDIMCAMQIxgnGOoCGIsEMgwIBBAjGCcY6gIYiwQyDAgFECMYJxjqAhiLBDIMCAYQIxgnGOoCGIsEMgwIBxAjGCcY6gIYiwQyDAgIECMYJxjqAhiLBDIMCAkQIxgnGOoCGIsEMgwIChAjGCcY6gIYiwQyDAgLECMYJxjqAhiLBDIMCAwQIxgnGOoCGIsEMgwIDRAjGCcY6gIYiwQyDAgOECMYJxjqAhiLBNIBBi0xajBqNKgCDbACAQ&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[patman30]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:50 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I've just had a surgical procedure (on my leg)....  its quite painful and I have some 'gummies' ready to assist with sleep, but don't want to be taking those every night (its going to be a long recovery).... 

So... I'm thinking of mixing this up with a 'bit of Krathom'....  but know nothing about the subject at all  (I think I've mentioned this in other replies on this thread - specifically to you Lacessit, if I'm not mistaken). 

What advice would you give - recently operated on (nothing major, just ligaments), but seeking some pain relief.... 

And I don't want to end up taking a a few glasses of whisky every night so I'm open to alternatives and not fearful of something such as Krathom... 

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

I'm not worried about getting addicted... I have sleeping tablets, Xanax, Clonozopam etc left over from similar times in the past when I wish to sleep better post injury / surgery...  and I have no issues managing that, so I'm not concerned. 

Kratom is a VERY mild stimulant in my own experience, seriously, drinking tea or coffee is stronger
it is calming like tea is compared to coffee
as for addiction, it may be habitual no way would i say its addictive, and definitely nothing compared to benzos or harder stuff
might be nice drink for you in mornings for pain relief during day (i did not have pains to relieve)
i have drunk it as coffee alternative to reduce caffeine tolerance
loads of people just sell on roadside, not sure if any advertise on facebook anymore, loads used to (don't use FB)
it is also easy to grow
 

[patman30]

2 hours ago, NickyLouie said:

 

Yes it's an opioid, nature's original pain killer.

NO, it is NOT an opioid
it contains the alkaloid mitragynine
which can produce opioid-like effects at high concentrations

[jts-khorat]

On 2/24/2024 at 5:42 AM, GroveHillWanderer said:

Just a heads-up, in case anyone's interested.

 

According to the article below:

 

 

They take kratom to ease pain or anxiety. Sometimes, death follows

 

However, the piece does go on to say that:

 

 

To provide a counterpoint, it also has the following:

 

 

 

 

Kratom is well known to have side effects when used in large quantities and can create an opiod-like addiction pattern if used improperly, eg in large amounts ofer a stretch of time. Everybody knows this (I assume).

 

The example your article lists show a very egregious mishandling of this substance (9-fold of the deadly level in the blood, this guy must have consumed Kratom by the kilo), all the other numbers they quote cite multi-drug use as main reason of death.

 

This does not wonder, as Kratom is often used to try to get over serious opioid addiction, as it binds to the same receptors and can block them for other substances like fentanyl or heroin. The high of course is incomparably less, so serious addicts often rather create parallel consumption habits instead of the intended replacement strategy; however, if disciplined, this strategy has released many from their addiction and especially in the USA there is often little other way to be able to self-treat such an addiction for people shut out from the health system.

 

But if you have a seasoned fentanyl addict found dead who has also traces of Kratom in his blood, is the reason for his death really (also) Kratom? Listing it this way is simply disingenious.

 

The USA has such a confused drug policy, that it would not wonder me, if a relatively (!) harmless drug like Kratom could be forbidden, because it is also consumed by fentanyl users.

 

To those using Kratom in Thailand: if you follow simple usage rules, it is generally harmless; it is a medicine, not a party drug, treat it as such. The one thing I would worry much, much more is chemicals (insecticide etc) on the plant leaves; consume from a known source, or plant your own tree. They grow surprisingly fast and if they have enough water, are quite hardy; enough good leaves for one average consumer can be had around year 2-3 after planting, I know, because our garden in Isaan has one I planted for the pain management of my father in law.

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

 

 

 

The USA has such a confused drug policy, that it would not wonder me, if a relatively (!) harmless drug like Kratom could be forbidden, because it is also consumed by fentanyl users.

 

To those using Kratom in Thailand: if you follow simple usage rules, it is generally harmless; it is a medicine, not a party drug, treat it as such. The one thing I would worry much, much more is chemicals (insecticide etc) on the plant leaves; consume from a known source, or plant your own tree. They grow surprisingly fast and if they have enough water, are quite hardy; enough good leaves for one average consumer can be had around year 2-3 after planting, I know, because our garden in Isaan has one I planted for the pain management of my father in law.

I would suggest washing the leaves in clean water prior to extracting with boiling water should get rid of any chemicals. It's what everyone does with food such as lettuce and cabbage.

 

At risk of espousing conspiracy theory, I would say Big Pharma would never want kratom on a pharmacy shelf. Cheap, and more effective than their synthetics.

[JackGats]

I fortunately have no acute pain to manage. I take kratom tea once a week when I'm in Thailand just for the hell of it. No more than once a week, at one-week intervals. I don't feel any kratom craving. I'm glad when I realise "hey today is my kratom day", that's all. Of course on other days cannabis may be what keeps my mind off the opiate kratom. So much for cannabis leading to stronger stuff.

[n00dle]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:59 PM, ABCDBKK said:

Kratom's risks include potential dependence, addiction, and adverse effects such as nausea, constipation, and in severe cases, respiratory depression.

 

It provides a euphoric feeling and as a result has similar dependency risks as opioids. A number of locals have talked about their teenage children having gotten badly hooked on it. 

I have known a few people addicted to kratom.

most of them assured me its non-addictive  

[jts-khorat]

On 2/26/2024 at 8:50 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

 

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

 

Do not mix your Kratom with the medicines you listed! Do not mix it with alcohol.

 

Planting a tree is likely taking to long for you (see my previous post). But Kratom can be bought easily in Thailand, surely also in Bangkok, again with the caveat, that you need to be careful how the trees were brought up (insecticide, chemicals, etc).

 

Be aware, that Kratom leaves are legal in Thailand and can be legally consumed or traded, selling finished Kratom tea however seemingly not. There just have been a number of arrests of people making Kratom tea in Phuket on a larger scale.

 

So DIY it is then: the Kratom leaves contain the alkaloids, yes, but they need to be extracted. You could just chew them down as the Thais do, but they are very bitter (the more bitter, the more of the alkaloids they have).

These alkaloids are not water-soluble, so you must let the dried or frozen leaves (to break open the cell walls) masticate in an extraction liquid after crushing them in your hands to fine pieces: lemon or lime juice are the easiest alternatives in Thailand, if you just chew them, this is your stomach acid and will work not very efficient compared to the lime juice.

You either let the leaves sit in this liquid for a while, or you simmer it (not over 90 Celsius); no extraordinate amounts are needed, the lime juice must just get everywhere in the plant material, so a liquidy paste is enough. Separate the plant material from the liquid, by letting everything run through a sieve.

Be prepared for it tasting quite horrible, so people come up with all kinds of tricks to make it palatable. We have a date palm, and chewing a very sweet date just after a sip annihilates the bitter taste a bit; others mix it in honey, various juices, herbal teas or with M-150, many more concoctions can be found on the internet. Even though there are people out there that supposedly can get used to the taste (or even profess to like it), I have had never had a Kratom tea that was nice to consume by any stretch of the imagination.

 

As others have written, pain relief can be several hours, so I would not consume more than the extract of a handful of leaves once daily in acute pain phases, cycling it off immediately when its medicinal properties are unneeded.

People taking it for the supposed high: either they have been ingesting so much more than me, or they really do not know the high of a real psychedelic; you might feel for a few minutes very slightly stoned and floaty in the best case, maybe have a few golden light sprinkles when you close your eyes (not sure downing this nasty concoction is worth the effort then).

Besides pain management, maybe a good usage would be: your mind will feel calmed, and you could sit still in meditation for several hours as completely physically pain-free. Of course there is the 5th Precept, so you would have to have your own opinion if this is an intoxicant clouding the mind leading to heedless actions.

[KannikaP]

32 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

They grow surprisingly fast and if they have enough water, are quite hardy; enough good leaves for one average consumer can be had around year 2-3 after planting,

And to relieve tonight's painful shoulder?

Easier to buy on Lazada.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, JackGats said:

I fortunately have no acute pain to manage. I take kratom tea once a week when I'm in Thailand just for the hell of it. No more than once a week, at one-week intervals. I don't feel any kratom craving. I'm glad when I realise "hey today is my kratom day", that's all. Of course on other days cannabis may be what keeps my mind off the opiate kratom. So much for cannabis leading to stronger stuff.

Everyone's physiology is different. Cannabis, morphine and tramadol do absolutely nothing for me. I can remember a hospital nurse being astonished when a fairly hefty morphine injection failed to give me any relief from severe chest pain.

OTOH, oxycodone works. Kratom would be my go-to if I was in severe pain, given what it does for me in small doses.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Do not mix your Kratom with the medicines you listed! Do not mix it with alcohol.

 

Planting a tree is likely taking to long for you (see my previous post). But Kratom can be bought easily in Thailand, surely also in Bangkok, again with the caveat, that you need to be careful how the trees were brought up (insecticide, chemicals, etc).

 

Be aware, that Kratom leaves are legal in Thailand and can be legally consumed or traded, selling finished Kratom tea however seemingly not. There just have been a number of arrests of people making Kratom tea in Phuket on a larger scale.

 

So DIY it is then: the Kratom leaves contain the alkaloids, yes, but they need to be extracted. You could just chew them down as the Thais do, but they are very bitter (the more bitter, the more of the alkaloids they have).

These alkaloids are not water-soluble, so you must let the dried or frozen leaves (to break open the cell walls) masticate in an extraction liquid after crushing them in your hands to fine pieces: lemon or lime juice are the easiest alternatives in Thailand, if you just chew them, this is your stomach acid and will work not very efficient compared to the lime juice.

You either let the leaves sit in this liquid for a while, or you simmer it (not over 90 Celsius); no extraordinate amounts are needed, the lime juice must just get everywhere in the plant material, so a liquidy paste is enough. Separate the plant material from the liquid, by letting everything run through a sieve.

Be prepared for it tasting quite horrible, so people come up with all kinds of tricks to make it palatable. We have a date palm, and chewing a very sweet date just after a sip annihilates the bitter taste a bit; others mix it in honey, various juices, herbal teas or with M-150, many more concoctions can be found on the internet. Even though there are people out there that supposedly can get used to the taste (or even profess to like it), I have had never had a Kratom tea that was nice to consume by any stretch of the imagination.

 

As others have written, pain relief can be several hours, so I would not consume more than the extract of a handful of leaves once daily in acute pain phases, cycling it off immediately when its medicinal properties are unneeded.

People taking it for the supposed high: either they have been ingesting so much more than me, or they really do not know the high of a real psychedelic; you might feel for a few minutes very slightly stoned and floaty in the best case, maybe have a few golden light sprinkles when you close your eyes (not sure downing this nasty concoction is worth the effort then).

Besides pain management, maybe a good usage would be: your mind will feel calmed, and you could sit still in meditation for several hours as completely physically pain-free. Of course there is the 5th Precept, so you would have to have your own opinion if this is an intoxicant clouding the mind leading to heedless actions.

Why not simply put the leaves in a blender with some water?

I am assuming citric acid in the lime juice assists in extracting the active chemical.

How did you come up with the 90 C simmering specification? My supplier { Thai villager ) boils the ground up leaves for at least an hour.

I always get my supply in refrigerated condition. That makes sense, all chemical reactions, including degradation, are slower in cold conditions. It's why we store meat and dairy products in a refrigerator.

[jts-khorat]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

And to relieve tonight's painful shoulder?

Easier to buy on Lazada.

 

Especially the bulk leaves bought online I would not trust for chemical residuals. Washing as @Lacessit wrote is of course the first step.

 

Do not boil the leaves in water only, then you only get whatever leaches from the cracked cell walls into the liquid, you do not extract the majority of the alcaloids (while the resulting tea still tastes as horrible as the extraction would). I have simply boiled everything in lime juice in the past, and have gotten an effect; but I have read now, that this already destroys some of the alcaloids over 90 Celsius (however I am not a chemist).

 

To manage expectations: this is not a modern pain medication, where you take it and it switches off the pain in minutes. Oncome can be slow, I normally feel it after a good hour. My theory is that it is not very good at reaching those opioid receptors in the brain quickly.

 

I would rather use it for chronic pain situations, where quickness of action is not needed, but somebody would rather want a pain-free afternoon or evening to go about their business.

[jts-khorat]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Why not simply put the leaves in a blender with some water?

I am assuming citric acid in the lime juice assists in extracting the active chemical.

How did you come up with the 90 C simmering specification? My supplier { Thai villager ) boils the ground up leaves for at least an hour.

I always get my supply in refrigerated condition. That makes sense, all chemical reactions, including degradation, are slower in cold conditions. It's why we store meat and dairy products in a refrigerator.

 

Sorry, ma answer in the post above was also to you.

Frozen, because it breaks up the cell walls, as crushing or blending the leaves does. You are right about the citric acid and I have had people telling me, that just masticating it in the lime juice for a good while is enough, no boiling or simmering needed at all (which I have not tried yet, I am not in Thailand currently).

[JackGats]

Could the so-called kratom tea be just dried up powdered leaves shaken with some orange juice to make it palatable? That's what it tastes like to me.

[Sluglord]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:08 PM, alanrchase said:

Fox got stung for $750 million because they wouldn't retract what they broadcast. Seems at least the liberal media has enough sense and integrity to post retractions when their reporting is incorrect. 

 

Yeah, correction MAY go in Friday at 330pm lead up to big three day holiday. No statement, they just change their propaganda.

 

Recent article I read on past NYT editors commenting on what has become of the rag

[Lacessit]

38 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

 

Sorry, ma answer in the post above was also to you.

Frozen, because it breaks up the cell walls, as crushing or blending the leaves does. You are right about the citric acid and I have had people telling me, that just masticating it in the lime juice for a good while is enough, no boiling or simmering needed at all (which I have not tried yet, I am not in Thailand currently).

If lime juice in water at room temperature is efficient, then that is the way to go as heat may degrade the active alkaloids. OTOH, heat also destroys any harmful bacteria, such as salmonella.

 

Perhaps a compromise, washing  the leaves in water with added chlorine prior to freezing or grinding?

 

The important thing is to have a standardized preparation process, and stick to it.

[SeaBee]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:43 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Wifey just popped down the road to nearly a shop on the street to get me some 'pre-made' potion....

Quite an interesting visit for her, some very helpful locals in the shop coming out of the woodwork to give her advice.

 

So, I have this green, disgusting looking, bitter tasting mixture.... 

 

I've had a 5 small 50ml glasses over about an hour and the 'woosy head' feeling kicked in...

... its a little bit like being drunk without the taste pleasures of a fine single Malt, rather the opposite in fact.

 

.... The Pain killing side definitely works - and I'm really glad I have paid attention the comments of those on this forum and this thread, I can relax a little more without having to hit the Tramadol up to the permitted limits (which didn't seem to do a lot).

 

BUT....  I also had a 'spinney feeling'...  like a loss of balance, head spinning slightly, which when mild is not discomforting, but it has lead to wooziness  and made me feel a little nauseous...    I just chunderred !!!  - Wife concerned, Mother in Law (who is also staying) somewhat entertained at her 'Western Son in Law going in for the local potion'....     turns out, MiL is a dark horse, much to my Wife's surprise, Both MiL and FiL have been making 'tea' out of the leaves.....  Good on em !!...  

 

Wife is very cautious about me taking this course of medication which is not 'prescribed by a major International hospital'...   

.... but the pain-killing aspect makes this work perusing....    I just have to be careful going to the loo when I'm partially immobilised (injury)... 

 

I just have to work out the 'ideal dose' to hit that pain killing sweet-spot. 

 

Wife was told this stuff is going to keep me awake....  (its good for work etc)... But to be honest, I could take a nap right now !!!... 

 

 

Anyway - thanks all for the info and advice. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Effect is dose-dependent: low dose = stimulant, high dose = sedative

 

[NickyLouie]

1 hour ago, jts-khorat said:

 

 

Besides pain management, maybe a good usage would be: your mind will feel calmed, and you could sit still in meditation for several hours as completely physically pain-free. Of course there is the 5th Precept, so you would have to have your own opinion if this is an intoxicant clouding the mind leading to heedless actions.

 

Brah, where do I sign up ?

[SeaBee]

14 hours ago, Hummin said:

The home breweries I have seen, does not see very hygienic neither those who making it. 

 

Be aware there is 750 different strains with different strenghts and affect on you. Some is better for pain, other gives you the highes, do your homework before you experiment to much.

There are no 750 strains, that's total marketing BS, effect is just batch-dependent.

There are no differentiated phenotypes and red/green/white are initially just different drying methods used in Indonesia (red is dried under the sun, green is dried indoor, white is usually a mix of both or other parts of the leaf like veins). The color of the midvein, which can indeed be red or green, is in no way correlated to alkaloid content.

[Hummin]

43 minutes ago, SeaBee said:

There are no 750 strains, that's total marketing BS, effect is just batch-dependent.

There are no differentiated phenotypes and red/green/white are initially just different drying methods used in Indonesia (red is dried under the sun, green is dried indoor, white is usually a mix of both or other parts of the leaf like veins). The color of the midvein, which can indeed be red or green, is in no way correlated to alkaloid content.

750 was a number I read many years ago, but Im sure there is even more available on the marked now. Same as weed.

 

New strains is made all the time, and can be done by anyone. Simple crossbreed to make hybrids with new potency and qualities, therefor hard to know exactly what you get no matter colour or marketing, especially in a marked where there is no controll.