Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

I've already told you I don't engage in the false "Hamas vs. Israel" dichotomy. Hamas in its current form is an Israeli creation.

 

Prayers to the Palestinian people.

Right deflection then. You confirmed you agreed with Guterres remarks but not the ones that put his whole statement into context. Ie nothing justifies the Hamas attacks of 7th Oct.

 

 

14 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I've already told you I don't engage in the false "Hamas vs. Israel" dichotomy. Hamas in its current form is an Israeli creation.

 

Prayers to the Palestinian people.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend untill they turn on you then they need to be put down. 

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

The enemy of my enemy is my friend untill they turn on you then they need to be put down. 

Deep, very deep 👏

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Deep, very deep 👏

Status Quo or Uriah Heep?

28 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I've already told you I don't engage in the false "Hamas vs. Israel" dichotomy. Hamas in its current form is an Israeli creation.

Prayers to the Palestinian people. 

 

In addition to Hamas,  did Israel also create:

 

List of terrorist entities with alleged ties to Iran:

Group	Type	Active regions
Hamas	Sunni Islamist political party and militant group	Gaza Strip
Harakat al-Nujaba	Shia Islamist paramilitary force	Iraq
Hezbollah	Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Lebanon
Houthis	Zaydi Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Yemen

 

.... and 11 more rows

 

WIKI   Iran and state-sponsored terrorism

 

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

In addition to Hamas,  did Israel also create:

 

List of terrorist entities with alleged ties to Iran:

Group	Type	Active regions
Hamas	Sunni Islamist political party and militant group	Gaza Strip
Harakat al-Nujaba	Shia Islamist paramilitary force	Iraq
Hezbollah	Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Lebanon
Houthis	Zaydi Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Yemen

 

.... and 11 more rows

 

WIKI   Iran and state-sponsored terrorism

 

Talking about Iran, they are flooding the West Bank with weapons, they want to make it a new front after Gaza.

 

Iran Smuggles Arms to West Bank, Officials Say, to Foment Unrest With Israel

Iran is operating a clandestine smuggling route across the Middle East, employing intelligence operatives, militants and criminal gangs, to deliver weapons to Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, according to officials from the United States, Israel and Iran.
The goal, as described by three Iranian officials, is to foment unrest against Israel by flooding the enclave with as many weapons as it can.
The covert operation is now heightening concerns that Tehran is seeking to turn the West Bank into the next flashpoint in the long-simmering shadow war between Israel and Iran.

https://archive.ph/81cSK

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/world/middleeast/iran-west-bank-weapons-smuggling.html

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Talking about Iran, they are flooding the West Bank with weapons, they want to make it a new front after Gaza.

 

Iran Smuggles Arms to West Bank, Officials Say, to Foment Unrest With Israel

Iran is operating a clandestine smuggling route across the Middle East, employing intelligence operatives, militants and criminal gangs, to deliver weapons to Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, according to officials from the United States, Israel and Iran.
The goal, as described by three Iranian officials, is to foment unrest against Israel by flooding the enclave with as many weapons as it can.
The covert operation is now heightening concerns that Tehran is seeking to turn the West Bank into the next flashpoint in the long-simmering shadow war between Israel and Iran.

https://archive.ph/81cSK

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/world/middleeast/iran-west-bank-weapons-smuggling.html

No surprise, long been forecast West Bank will erupt again after 50 years of occupation with no resolution in sight. I guess the Palestinian proxies will suffer major loss on life if or should I say, when, major escalation occurs. However, one assumes it will suit the current Israeli government land grab / Settler goals.

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No surprise, long been forecast West Bank will erupt again after 50 years of occupation with no resolution in sight. I guess the Palestinian proxies will suffer major loss on life if or should I say, when, major escalation occurs. However, one assumes it will suit the current Israeli government land grab / Settler goals.

No surprise at all with Iran at the helm, they helped train Hamas to.

Palestinian citizens of Israel are not required to serve in the army. Goes to show they are not real citizens as some here have stated. 

 

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/highly-unusualcourt-dismisses-petition-to-conscript-palestinian-citizens-of-israel-into-army/

11 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Sorry, I don;'t trust twitter as a reliable source.

 

Reuters is pretty legit though:

"EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said on Friday that Israel had financed the creation of Palestinian militant group Hamas, publicly contradicting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who has denied such allegations."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eus-borrell-says-israel-financed-creation-gaza-rulers-hamas-2024-01-19/

 

If you've already made your mind up which team your on that's fine by me though.  I don't have a dog in the fight and don't expext Jew ish people to acknowledge information that contradicts their stories.

 

FWIW I think you guys will win and clear that area anyway

 

 

 

 

FWIW I think you guys will win and clear that area anyway

 

There are no winners in this. Israel may kill a lot of Hamas fighters and proclaim victory, but such is the hatred they have created it will just be a pause till the next strike against israelis, anywhere on the planet.

Perhaps they are so blinded by hate for Palestinians themselves that they can't see what they are creating- the forever war.

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

FWIW I think you guys will win and clear that area anyway

 

There are no winners in this. Israel may kill a lot of Hamas fighters and proclaim victory, but such is the hatred they have created it will just be a pause till the next strike against israelis, anywhere on the planet.

Perhaps they are so blinded by hate for Palestinians themselves that they can't see what they are creating- the forever war.

 

  The war against Jews has been going on for 1000's of years already 

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

No surprise, long been forecast West Bank will erupt again after 50 years of occupation with no resolution in sight. I guess the Palestinian proxies will suffer major loss on life if or should I say, when, major escalation occurs. However, one assumes it will suit the current Israeli government land grab / Settler goals.

Indeed, America is going to suffer in the Middle East as it's support of israel while it oppresses Palestinians is likely being used by Iran to arm anyone that will expand the conflict in the Middle East against the US. Iran has probably been seeing how America is waging a proxy war in Ukraine and is learning the lessons of how to do it. I doubt the Iranians care any more how many Palestinians die than the US cares about how many Ukrainians die.

Seen on Al Jazeera this morning.

Israeli attack kills 3 sons and 3 grandchildren of Hamas political leader in North Gaza ( illegal collective punishment ), and another killed 14 people, including children, in a Gaza refugee camp, without warning.

 

Al Jazeera titles their reports as "Israeli genocide" and it does seem that that is true.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/10/israeli-forces-kill-three-children-of-hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-in-gaza

In an interview with Al Jazeera Arabic, Haniyeh confirmed the killing of his children Hazem, Amir and Mohammad along with a number of his grandchildren on Wednesday. Shehab news agency reported that at least three grandchildren of the Hamas leader were killed in the attack.

 

 

https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-kills-14-palestinians-gaza-eid-al-fitr-airstrikes

Gaza: Israel kills 14 Palestinians, including children,

 

9 hours ago, rabas said:

In addition to Hamas,  did Israel also create:

 

List of terrorist entities with alleged ties to Iran:

Group	Type	Active regions
Hamas	Sunni Islamist political party and militant group	Gaza Strip
Harakat al-Nujaba	Shia Islamist paramilitary force	Iraq
Hezbollah	Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Lebanon
Houthis	Zaydi Shia Islamist political party and militant group	Yemen

 

.... and 11 more rows

 

WIKI   Iran and state-sponsored terrorism

 

 

I detailed how Israel strategically bolstered Hamas to annihilate the two-State solution in the first pages of this topic. If the messianic party Likud had not eliminated Rabin, Arafat and the PLO in the name of their religious ideology instead of purposely arming Hamas, there would have been a two-state solution in the 90s and no second Intifada, no Operation Cast Lead and of course no October 7. The two-state solution is the last thing the Rabbi-led Likud wants and they will go all the way to achieve Greater Israel (which means no Palestine) if they aren't stopped.

 

Iran is a related issue, but I can't go into that properly as it would be deemed off topic.

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seen on Al Jazeera this morning.

Israeli attack kills 3 sons and 3 grandchildren of Hamas political leader in North Gaza ( illegal collective punishment ), and another killed 14 people, including children, in a Gaza refugee camp, without warning.

 

Al Jazeera titles their reports as "Israeli genocide" and it does seem that that is true.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/10/israeli-forces-kill-three-children-of-hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-in-gaza

In an interview with Al Jazeera Arabic, Haniyeh confirmed the killing of his children Hazem, Amir and Mohammad along with a number of his grandchildren on Wednesday. Shehab news agency reported that at least three grandchildren of the Hamas leader were killed in the attack.

 

 

https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-kills-14-palestinians-gaza-eid-al-fitr-airstrikes

Gaza: Israel kills 14 Palestinians, including children,

 

An excellent precision strike on a prominent Hamas leader's 3 terrorist sons who were travelling in a car. Shame about the 3 grandchildren. How is that illegal collective punishment by the way? Another of your false claims?

 

His statement about this incident included: 

 

"he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren".

 

They seem to love death more than they do life. Just as Douglas Murray points out in an excellent speech.

 

"We love death more than you love life" Whereas everyone else loves and honours life. Obviously why sacrificing Gazans for the terrorists cause is their strategy whether the civilian victims like it or not. The evils of Hamas

 

 

Hamas tells negotiators it doesn't have 40 Israeli hostages needed for first round of ceasefire

Hamas has indicated it is currently unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages needed for the first phase of a ceasefire deal, according to an Israeli official and a source familiar with the discussions, raising fears that more hostages may be dead than are publicly known.

The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.

Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt — it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said. 

 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

FWIW I think you guys will win and clear that area anyway

 

There are no winners in this. Israel may kill a lot of Hamas fighters and proclaim victory, but such is the hatred they have created it will just be a pause till the next strike against israelis, anywhere on the planet.

Perhaps they are so blinded by hate for Palestinians themselves that they can't see what they are creating- the forever war.

Points to note:

The Palestinians hated the Israelis before this war started, they are indoctrinated from birth, they couldn't possibly hate them anymore than they did before this war began! 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, America is going to suffer in the Middle East as it's support of israel while it oppresses Palestinians is likely being used by Iran to arm anyone that will expand the conflict in the Middle East against the US. Iran has probably been seeing how America is waging a proxy war in Ukraine and is learning the lessons of how to do it. I doubt the Iranians care any more how many Palestinians die than the US cares about how many Ukrainians die.

It's all Americas fault and never Palestine nor Russia with you! 

10 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

It's all Americas fault and never Palestine nor Russia with you! 

Usa is the world police, the empire with biggest influence on the world, making decisions and take actions that impact people different around the world, and also creating unstabillity in larger regions. Of course heritaged from earlier empires from Rome, Ottaman, British just to mention a few. 

 

Alexander the great was one of the first who managed to split and devide people in larger scales, moving boarders, influence culturally, so, where the empire goes, they create enemies. 

 

World politics is challenging, and doing good for one side, might harm another side. 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seen on Al Jazeera this morning.

Israeli attack kills 3 sons and 3 grandchildren of Hamas political leader in North Gaza ( illegal collective punishment ), and another killed 14 people, including children, in a Gaza refugee camp, without warning.

 

It is purely a revengeful attack. There are so many war crime and crimes against humanity, surely no one in their right mind would condone this.  

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

It is purely a revengeful attack. There are so many war crime and crimes against humanity, surely no one in their right mind would condone this.  

Only Hamas supporters would be screaming about this. To everyone else killing Hamas terrorist is part of this war against them.

16 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Usa is the world police, the empire with biggest influence on the world, making decisions and take actions that impact people different around the world, and also creating unstabillity in larger regions. Of course heritaged from earlier empires from Rome, Ottaman, British just to mention a few. 

 

Alexander the great was one of the first who managed to split and devide people in larger scales, moving boarders, influence culturally, so, where the empire goes, they create enemies. 

 

World politics is challenging, and doing good for one side, might harm another side. 

History lessons are frowned upon! And using it to justify 7/10 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine is damn right distortion of the facts. Now back on topic?

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is purely a revengeful attack. There are so many war crime and crimes against humanity, surely no one in their right mind would condone this.  

It is not a revenge attack, has it ever crossed your mind that Israel may not want another 7/10?

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, America is going to suffer in the Middle East as it's support of israel while it oppresses Palestinians is likely being used by Iran to arm anyone that will expand the conflict in the Middle East against the US. Iran has probably been seeing how America is waging a proxy war in Ukraine and is learning the lessons of how to do it. I doubt the Iranians care any more how many Palestinians die than the US cares about how many Ukrainians die.

 

Although Off Topic I dispute your claim Ukraine is a proxy of the US in it's fight against Russia. You seem to ignore Russia invaded Ukraine without justification.

Just now, simple1 said:

 

Although Off Topic I dispute your claim Ukraine is a proxy of the US in it's fight against Russia. You seem to ignore Russia invaded Ukraine without justification.

+1

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

History lessons are frowned upon! And using it to justify 7/10 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine is damn right distortion of the facts. Now back on topic?

You mentioned russia, I mentioned a larger picture how things works and have impacted the world we see today.

 

The jews have been a hunted religious cult/people for how long? They still are not liked based on todays actions and for their history. They got a brief moment of understanding and empathy after ww2, but now, it is only hardcore bible humpers left. 

 

Do not need to be Hamas supporter to be realistic. Only those who do not want to see will follow the crazyniess to the end. 

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You mentioned russia, I mentioned a larger picture how things works and have impacted the world we see today.

 

The jews have been a hunted religious cult/people for how long? They still are not liked based on todays actions and for their history. They got a brief moment of understanding and empathy after ww2, but now, it is only hardcore bible humpers left. 

 

Do not need to be Hamas supporter to be realistic. Only those who do not want to see will follow the crazyniess to the end. 

😴more of the same off topic nonsense

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You mentioned russia, I mentioned a larger picture how things works and have impacted the world we see today.

 

The jews have been a hunted religious cult/people for how long? They still are not liked based on todays actions and for their history. They got a brief moment of understanding and empathy after ww2, but now, it is only hardcore bible humpers left. 

 

Do not need to be Hamas supporter to be realistic. Only those who do not want to see will follow the crazyniess to the end. 

TBL mentioned Russia, I just corrected him how wrong he was, now back on topic.

27 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

😴more of the same off topic nonsense

So middle east problems is not a historic problem connected to religion and their prophecies and the colonization because of Jerusalems importance for the religion? It all started with PLO and Hamas, or was it Hamas only which unfortunate was helped by the Israeli to be created, and the question is, why? 

 

Israel's historical role in the rise of Hamas

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2023/11/21/world/israel-failed-policy/

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seen on Al Jazeera this morning.

Israeli attack kills 3 sons and 3 grandchildren of Hamas political leader in North Gaza ( illegal collective punishment ), and another killed 14 people, including children, in a Gaza refugee camp, without warning.

 

Al Jazeera titles their reports as "Israeli genocide" and it does seem that that is true.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/10/israeli-forces-kill-three-children-of-hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-in-gaza

In an interview with Al Jazeera Arabic, Haniyeh confirmed the killing of his children Hazem, Amir and Mohammad along with a number of his grandchildren on Wednesday. Shehab news agency reported that at least three grandchildren of the Hamas leader were killed in the attack.

 

 

https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-kills-14-palestinians-gaza-eid-al-fitr-airstrikes

Gaza: Israel kills 14 Palestinians, including children,

 

You do know that Ismail Haniyeh lauds it up in Qatar and seems to think it is a great honour for his sons to be martyred while normal fathers would be grieving for their loved ones, and do you know they were cell commanders of the Hamas military wing. So have we reached a stage where we are glorifying terrorists.