Thailand's NVI Backs AstraZeneca Amid Controversy

[thesetat]

There is no freedom to say what you know and read from news services that do not follow the COVID agenda worldwide. Edited and censored because they do not follow what they want the world to see.

 

There are many such news stories detailing how the news and social media groups are aiding in keeping the COVID vaccine in a positive view rather than detailing what is really happening by saying it is fake news or misinformation when the sources are from reliable people

Edited May 7 by stats
comments on moderation removed

[dinsdale]

3 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Just take best case scenario and vaccine does save lives, how do we know the negative impacts won’t outweigh the positive in the long run

Worst case scenario it takes lives.

[dinsdale]

3 hours ago, thesetat said:

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Sadly many people either can't see this or completely ignore it. 

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

Partial vaccination means the same as for any other vaccine; failure to complete the prescribed dosages. The number of dosages depends on the vaccine. The term is synonymous with "incomplete vaccination".

 

For instance, if you have the HBV vaccine, which typically uses a recombinant antigen produced in yeast cells or hamster ovarian cells, you need 3 vaccinations before you can be considered fully vaccinated. The HBV vaccine gives 80% effectiveness against the risk of developing hepatitis. Conversely, the whooping cough vaccine (Pertussis) is considered non-sterilising, ie it does not stop infection, nor prevent spread, but it does mitigate the illness.

 

The problem is the term "sterilizing vaccine"; a vaccine that prevents infection. Its a biological myth, because its based on how a disease is measured. The usual measure of the efficacy of a vaccine is the prevention of illness, and the disappearance of cases. In most cases, disease is determined by symptoms. But its actually impossible to demonstrate infection never occurred.

 

The measles vaccine is held up as a highly effective vaccine; it virtually eliminates measles in kids. But, when vaccination levels falls, there is a resurgence in cases. The vaccine, it turns out, doesn't prevent infection events. It prevents kids developing measles (rash), but if you start testing for the measles virus, its still circulating among those kids.

 

The paradigm for infection detection is increasingly molecular. In 2020, it was PCR. In the next pandemic, it will be CRISPR, with 1-2 orders of magnitude increase in sensitivity and specificity. The myth created by Danish physician Peter Ludvig Panum when he assessed the effectiveness of measles vaccination in the Faroes, in the 1840s, which he observed to be perfectly effective, will be eroded.

 

The lay public, in general, do not understand how vaccines work. Why would they, its not a topic they paid much attention to at school.

 

The HPV vaccine is near enough perfect in preventing cervical cancer in women. Its probably the most effective vaccine known.

 

The Rabies vaccine, at most, provides 2 years protection, but more typically 6 months protection. One wouldn't quibble though about efficacy after being bitten by a rabid dog, like I was (and I had the early recombinant version into the belly).

Thank you for the long reply, but it did not answer my question which was specifically regarding the covid vaccine,  maybe I was not specific enough ? after all I am "only" a member of the relatively uneducated "lay public" and as the covid vaccine was obviously never mentioned whilst I was at school, it is irrelevant whether I "paid attention" or not 

 My question was "What exactly is partial vaccination" ?  maybe I should have made it a bit clearer and actually asked "what actually constitutes fully vaccinated status in the case of the covid vaccine?"   because as an uneducated pleb I remain somewhat confused.

You claim that " The number of doses depends on the vaccine" but it appears to me that the number of doses for the covid "vaccine" is  rather more subjective and depends on which  "expert"  that we choose to listen to, and  I seriously doubt they can all be correct. 

     First it was one jab.  Then 2 jabs, Then 2 jabs plus a "booster"  and so on and so forth. I believe Anutin , the public health minister has had 9 injections, (and still got infected,) and I clearly remember it being mentioned by President Macron of France that injections would be required every six months !  Is a "booster" actually any different to just another jab? As far as I am aware it is not and they are just pumping more of the same into us, so why use the word "booster" 

So what constitutes "full" vaccination ? 1 , 2 . 3, times ? or is it really every 6 months for the rest of one's life ?  Does anybody really know ? does anybody really care?    And what is the effect on our immune systems of pumping this stuff into our bodies so often?  I really don't think anybody knows the answer to that, but I can imagine a lot of "experts" are keeping their fingers crossed.

 As another member on here has mentioned, those who remain unvaccinated appear less likely to become infected, my experience at work also indicates that this indeed appears to be the case 

Edited May 7 by Bday Prang

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Thank you for the long reply, but it did not answer my question which was specifically regarding the covid vaccine,  maybe I was not specific enough ? after all I am "only" a member of the relatively uneducated "lay public" and as the covid vaccine was obviously never mentioned whilst I was at school, it is irrelevant whether I "paid attention" or not 

 My question was "What exactly is partial vaccination" ?  maybe I should have made it a bit clearer and actually asked "what actually constitutes fully vaccinated status in the case of the covid vaccine?"   because as an uneducated pleb I remain somewhat confused.

     First it was one jab.  Then 2 jabs, Then 2 jabs plus a "booster"  and so on and so forth. I believe Anutin , the public health minister has had 9 injections, (and still got infected,) and I clearly remember it being mentioned by President Macron of France that injections would be required every six months !  

So what constitutes "full" vaccination ? 1 , 2 . 3, times ? or is it really every 6 months for the rest of one's life ?  Does anybody really know ? does anybody really care?    And what is the effect on our immune systems of pumping this stuff into our bodies so often?  I really don't think anybody knows the answer to that, but I can imagine a lot of "experts" are keeping their fingers crossed.

 As another member on here has mentioned, those who remain unvaccinated appear less likely to become infected, my experience at work also indicates that this indeed appears to be the case 

Agree. As for your last sentence may I say that less likely to be infected might not actually be the case. It may be that people still get infected being that Omicron is so infectious but they just don't get sick. Might get minimal symptoms or no symptoms at all but the immune system fights it off. An immune system that gets naturally boosted with each infection.

[Robert Paulson]

15 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Thank you for the long reply, but it did not answer my question which was specifically regarding the covid vaccine,  maybe I was not specific enough ? after all I am "only" a member of the relatively uneducated "lay public" and as the covid vaccine was obviously never mentioned whilst I was at school, it is irrelevant whether I "paid attention" or not 

 My question was "What exactly is partial vaccination" ?  maybe I should have made it a bit clearer and actually asked "what actually constitutes fully vaccinated status in the case of the covid vaccine?"   because as an uneducated pleb I remain somewhat confused.

     First it was one jab.  Then 2 jabs, Then 2 jabs plus a "booster"  and so on and so forth. I believe Anutin , the public health minister has had 9 injections, (and still got infected,) and I clearly remember it being mentioned by President Macron of France that injections would be required every six months !  

So what constitutes "full" vaccination ? 1 , 2 . 3, times ? or is it really every 6 months for the rest of one's life ?  Does anybody really know ? does anybody really care?    And what is the effect on our immune systems of pumping this stuff into our bodies so often?  I really don't think anybody knows the answer to that, but I can imagine a lot of "experts" are keeping their fingers crossed.

 As another member on here has mentioned, those who remain unvaccinated appear less likely to become infected, my experience at work also indicates that this indeed appears to be the case 

Yes. And notice nobody was told they’d need to take all these boosters at the outset. Yet I’m assuming they knew this. How could they not. Either they’re incompetent or they didn’t know or they were keeping it from the people.

 

who would have vaccinated if they were told “you’re gonna need xxx boosters”? 

[dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Yes. And notice nobody was told they’d need to take all these boosters at the outset. Yet I’m assuming they knew this. How could they not. Either they’re incompetent or they didn’t know or they were keeping it from the people.

 

who would have vaccinated if they were told “you’re gonna need xxx boosters”? 

Who would have been vaccinated if they were told it could kill you? "The chances of the vaccine causing severe injury, health issues or even death is highly unlikely but still possible." "We do not know what long term effects there might be but overall the vaccines are safe." Instead of these warnings people were forced to be vaccinated. I challenge anyone to say there's not something wrong here.

Edited May 7 by dinsdale

[Robert Paulson]

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Who would have been vaccinated if they were told it could kill you? "The chances of the vaccine causing severe injury, health issues or even death is highly unlikely but still possible." "We do not no what long term effects there might be but overall the vaccines are safe." Instead of these warnings people were forced to be vaccinated. I challenge anyone to say there's not something wrong here.

Especially when it comes to 6 month olds and teenagers. I can’t even think about it without losing faith in it all. Who on earth cannot understand what’s going on at this point. 

[Bday Prang]

19 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I couldn't agree more. Sadly many people either can't see this or completely ignore it. 

Spot on, it's a  rather worrying revelation to me  that people can be so easily manipulated and cannot even accept that they have been ,  only a minority are prepared to question the information they are given. Although bearing in mind how those prepared to speak out and voice their legitimate concerns  about this vaccine are treated, just for asking questions, ( "tin hatters" "conspiracy theorists" "granny killers"  )   its not really that surprising that so many choose to remain silent and fall into line

  People are generally inclined to follow the path of least resistance, and most seem hard wired to follow the herd, That would explain why the "authorities" feel the need to silence anybody asking awkward questions, anywhere, even on an insignificant platform like this forum. Its actually quite scary in my opinion. "The emperor's new clothes" is a near perfect analogy with a bit of "chicken little" thrown in for good measure

 As an aside, I don't doubt that governments and authorities know only too well how to manipulate people, after all it's what they do, and have been doing since the beginning of time. How else, for example, could they "persuade" people to give their lives for their countries in the case of war, in the case of Kamikaze pilots no secret was made of their fate, but they still complied.   So historically how many times have people and their behaviour been manipulated to suit the, often personally motivated , agendas of "those in control"  

[Bday Prang]

44 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

An immune system that gets naturally boosted with each infection.

A fact that is hardly ever mentioned,   for whatever reason 

[Robert Paulson]

22 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Spot on, it's a  rather worrying revelation to me  that people can be so easily manipulated and cannot even accept that they have been ,  only a minority are prepared to question the information they are given. Although bearing in mind how those prepared to speak out and voice their legitimate concerns  about this vaccine are treated, just for asking questions, ( "tin hatters" "conspiracy theorists" "granny killers"  )   its not really that surprising that so many choose to remain silent and fall into line

  People are generally inclined to follow the path of least resistance, and most seem hard wired to follow the herd, That would explain why the "authorities" feel the need to silence anybody asking awkward questions, anywhere, even on an insignificant platform like this forum. Its actually quite scary in my opinion. "The emperor's new clothes" is a near perfect analogy with a bit of "chicken little" thrown in for good measure

 As an aside, I don't doubt that governments and authorities know only too well how to manipulate people, after all it's what they do, and have been doing since the beginning of time. How else, for example, could they "persuade" people to give their lives for their countries in the case of war, in the case of Kamikaze pilots no secret was made of their fate, but they still complied.   So historically how many times have people and their behaviour been manipulated to suit the, often personally motivated , agendas of "those in control"  

Yes, very good observations. I have felt stronger about this herd mentality than I ever did before covid. It truly is amazing what people can be manipulated into believing. I honestly have no trouble making the leap into how a figure like Hitler could come into power, because as we can see it’s possible to lead a herd anywhere. And once the herd is formed it is self perpetuating. 

[Bday Prang]

46 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

being that Omicron is so infectious

I  find these "infection rates" rather suspicious,   Every successive mutation of covid has been  described as somewhat less severe than the previously dominant strain, that appears to be one thing that all the "experts" do  appear agree on .     So the fear factor should also have diminished correspondingly, with each mutation.  But,to counteract this, the narrative required another angle so "infectiousness" became the buzzword, and each subsequent strain was accompanied with stronger and stronger warnings regarding transmission, but how infectious can something actually become?  eventually there must be a limit,  100% infectious?   "as infectious as infectious can be "?   

Following that argument implies that future strains will be as severe as a dose of the sniffles, but just thinking about it could result in one becoming infected, so nothing much to worry about ?     Nah it was never going to be that easy, it can always be argued that it always has the potential to be fatal, even if that only applies to those of 100 years old with pre existing medical conditions. But never mind the fact that even a dose of the sniffles could prove fatal for those in that demographic.  Is dying from covid at that age any worse than dying of pneumonia or the common cold or anything else for that matter? We all die from something, and "natural causes" is really just a euphemism

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

who would have vaccinated if they were told “you’re gonna need xxx boosters”?

probably most people, when not being jabbed meant either "certain death"  "killing granny"  " never working again"  " unable to travel"  even unable to go to the pub,  spending the remainder of ones life" living effectively under house arrest" 

Those were the stated consequences of not "falling into line" that we were all informed of at the time, as I recall

[dinsdale]

13 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I  find these "infection rates" rather suspicious,   Every successive mutation of covid has been  described as somewhat less severe than the previously dominant strain, that appears to be one thing that all the "experts" do  appear agree on .     So the fear factor should also have diminished correspondingly, with each mutation.  But,to counteract this, the narrative required another angle so "infectiousness" became the buzzword, and each subsequent strain was accompanied with stronger and stronger warnings regarding transmission, but how infectious can something actually become?  eventually there must be a limit,  100% infectious?   "as infectious as infectious can be "?   

Following that argument implies that future strains will be as severe as a dose of the sniffles, but just thinking about it could result in one becoming infected, so nothing much to worry about ?     Nah it was never going to be that easy, it can always be argued that it always has the potential to be fatal, even if that only applies to those of 100 years old with pre existing medical conditions. But never mind the fact that even a dose of the sniffles could prove fatal for those in that demographic.  Is dying from covid at that age any worse than dying of pneumonia or the common cold or anything else for that matter? We all die from something, and "natural causes" is really just a euphemism

I have no problem with new variants becoming increasingly contagious. Still not as cotagious as measles though. The takeaway is that it is a non-serious highly contagious virus for the vast majority of people and is very similar to the common cold in the respect of symptoms and transmissability. 

 

Edited May 7 by dinsdale

[Bday Prang]

15 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I have no problem with new variants becoming increasingly contagious. Still not as cotagious as measles though. The takeaway is that it is a non-serious highly contagious virus for the vast majority of people and is very similar to the common cold in the respect of symptoms and transmissability. 

 

Again very much correct, but since when did governments allow the truth to get in the way of their intentions.   The same can  of course be said of the media who are far from blameless .

Personally, I think, had covid occurred prior to the rise of the internet , things would have turned out very differently

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

Especially when it comes to 6 month olds and teenagers. I can’t even think about it without losing faith in it all. Who on earth cannot understand what’s going on at this point. 

What will be next, ?  vaccinating the unborn in the womb ?  never say never eh

[Amethyst]

Several posts with unsourced and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory claims, along with being off-topic, have been removed.

 

The topic of the thread here is:

 

Thailand's NVI Backs AstraZeneca Amid Controversy

Edited May 7 by stats

[dinsdale]

I remember when saying that the vaccines could cause harm was an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory yet here we are on a thread about vaccine safety/harm. Interesting days indeed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I remember when saying that the vaccines could cause harm was an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory yet here we are on a thread about vaccine safety/harm. Interesting days indeed.

 

I don't remember anyone saying that.

 

Though there were a lot of specific FALSE COVID vaccine claims made that did fit into the conspiracy theory realm (like the whoppers that COVID vaccines contained trackers or were magnetic). See below:

 

Rather, in the case of the AZ vaccine, for example, there were required warnings back to 2021 that blood clots could be a rare side effect, among other potential side effects (see below)

 

To illustrate that fact, when I got my first two COVID vaccine shots in Thailand back in mid-2021, I was well-aware of the much publicized concern about very rare blood clots, and went ahead with the two shots anyway, because:

 

1. at that time, here in Thailand, I didn't have any choice of Pfizer or Moderna mRNA.... and all the reports I saw at the time indeed indicated the clotting issue was very rare, which has turned out to be the case.

 

and

 

2. the only other options available here at the time were one of the Chinese made versions, which most tests at the time showed were less effective than the AZ vaccine.

 

However, as noted above, there always have been many false conspiracy theories spread about COVID vaccines, including by a lot of members here. So for those folks...

Bust Myths and Learn the Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines

Updated Sept. 27, 2023

--COVID-19 vaccines do not contain microchips and they cannot make you magnetic.

--COVID-19 vaccines do not alter DNA.

--Not all events reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are caused by vaccination.

etc...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

 

 

Here, BTW, is an example of the kind of potential side effect disclosures that were in place for the AZ vaccine back in 2021:

Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine: What to know about side effects

Updated on July 15, 2021

 

"Vaxzevria, the COVID-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, may cause some of the mostly mild-to-moderate side effects that people often encounter after any vaccination. However, there are also some recent controversies surrounding rare blood clotting incidents linked to this vaccine."

Common side effects

Potential risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome

Controversy regarding blood clots

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-what-to-know-about-side-effects

 

There were plenty of disclosures made back during that time.

 

 

Edited May 7 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[simon43]

[quote]

The chances of the vaccine causing severe injury, health issues or even death is highly unlikely but still possible.

...

[/quote]

 

... which is exactly the same situation for any vaccine, such as Polio, Measles etc etc, and exactly the same for most medications, even common ones such as Aspirin.  The unfortunate fact is that some people have adverse reactions to some medicines, sometimes very serious negative reactions that can cause death - it's a fact of life and not unique to the AZ Covid vaccine.

[Conno]

Just announced full withdrawal from global markets from yesterday. For commercial reason only of course. Jeeeze you can't make this stuff up. 

Nice bit of face saving.....for commercial reason. What a clown world we live in really.

 

New non-paywall link covering the same story posted further down in the chat. 

 

Edited May 8 by Conno
link to paywall protected content removed

[Robert Paulson]

People often bring up other vaccines as some kind of proof that vaccines do in fact help us as a whole, and maybe they do. But the fact is I see very few medicines that when you analyze the negative effects of it in the long run, do those effects outweigh the positives.

 

As humans were very concerned with the now. It’s a horrible trait. It’s much better to think about the long term. I’d hazard to guess most medicines do more harm than good, and I strongly believe history will prove me correct. We just aren’t that good at formulating medicine. I am not sure why people think we are. 
 

There even a physical law to describe the point I’m making: for every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction. How I’d read that in the case of medicine is… sure you may get some short term benefit, but in the long run you’re gonna suffer for it. 

[Robert Paulson]

17 minutes ago, Conno said:

Just announced full withdrawal from global markets from yesterday. For commercial reason only of course. Jeeeze you can't make this stuff up. 

Nice bit of face saving.....for commercial reason. 

 

 

Yes. They can never just come out and tell the truth. It’s sad really. They are pathetic people and yet they constantly get rewarded for acting this way

[Conno]

10 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Yes. They can never just come out and tell the truth. It’s sad really. They are pathetic people and yet they constantly get rewarded for acting this way

 

Thailand's NVI backing didn't age too well either did it. But all A-OK nothing wrong with the product, just not as much demand as there used to be 555555

[Conno]

OK MOD here's a non paywall link to the same story.

AstraZeneca to withdraw Covid vaccine (bbc.com)

 

Edited May 8 by Conno

[Robert Paulson]

We’re still only a few years in when it comes to vaccines. Note vaccine development usually takes on the order of 5-10 years. I guess we are going through that period now. And one of them has been pulled. Yip yip, hurrah. 

[Negita43]

On 5/6/2024 at 3:04 AM, dinsdale said:

Very little chance of dying from covid these days.

Key words -  "these days" - any ideas why that might be the case?

[dinsdale]

17 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

Key words -  "these days" - any ideas why that might be the case?

Omicron.

[dinsdale]

24 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

We’re still only a few years in when it comes to vaccines. Note vaccine development usually takes on the order of 5-10 years. I guess we are going through that period now. And one of them has been pulled. Yip yip, hurrah. 

Not one. All of them. And you make a good point about vaccine development. Was this the case for these vaccines?