Where do foreigners fit in the Thai hierarchy?

[Random8]

51 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Seems you are looking for an argument...     I found your comment stupid, apologies if that upsets your sensitivities and you now want to enter forum sparing match...      Its not going to happen, you'll need to up your game if you want engagement.

 

 

 

You started the argument with me.  You are looking for engagement, d-head.  Common, weak tactics: backpedaling, misrepresenting the past, etc.  You lost already, now you're trying to save face.

[Celsius]

7 hours ago, bob smith said:

But now I am financially sound having made a number of good business moves in my youth.

I have what I consider to be a good life.

Plenty money in the bank, sound investments, few women scattered about the country who I can just call whenever I am in town etc..

I do what I want when I want and nobody is my boss.

 

You are doing 90 day reports? There is your answer.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

All the Thai's I know treat the 'service people' (their maids etc) extremely well.

I am surprised about that.

When I visited Thais in their home (I worked there) I saw them telling their service people rudely what to do. And then they looked at me and maybe made a comment like: They are just too lazy to work or something like that.

Also, in "my" condominium farangs say hello to the maids regularly, and not only they cute maids. In average I would say the Thais behave more like: You know I am better than you and I know I am better than you. Not all behave like that, but also not exactly few. 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Celsius said:

7 hours ago, bob smith said:

But now I am financially sound having made a number of good business moves in my youth.

I have what I consider to be a good life.

Plenty money in the bank, sound investments, few women scattered about the country who I can just call whenever I am in town etc..

I do what I want when I want and nobody is my boss.

 

You are doing 90 day reports? There is your answer.

 

Those are two different concepts...

a) how we fit in with immigration policy 

b) how we fit in with within the Thai social hierarchy

 

Example at hand - my wife would fits in with the UK community very well, people wouldn't know she's not British, give or take one or two grammatical foibles in her speech... Yet, she is subject to immigration restrictions.

 

That said - simply because many overseas cultures are more multicultural and multiracial I think it's be far easier for a Thai fit in, in the UK, as the natural assumption is that they are living in the area and generational...   That is not true of Westerners in Thailand... and perhaps therein lies a difference.

 

 

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Those are two different concepts...

a) how we fit in with immigration policy 

b) how we fit in with within the Thai social hierarchy

 

Example at hand - my wife would fits in with the UK community very well, people wouldn't know she's not British, give or take one or two grammatical foibles in her speech... Yet, she is subject to immigration restrictions.

 

That said - simply because many overseas cultures are more multicultural and multiracial I think it's be far easier for a Thai fit in, in the UK, as the natural assumption is that they are living in the area and generational...   That is not true of Westerners in Thailand... and perhaps therein lies a difference.

 

 

who of you two is more happy than the other in each other places? My wife is most happy with her family close around here, 

 

In Norway she is looked as a prostitute. Nobody says it, but thats what everyone thinks, and Im sure the same around in Thailand, but in Thailand it doesnt bugging me, here home in Norway, it kind of getting ounder my skin. 

 

How is Thai ladies and their husbands looked at in your own mother countries? Is it different from Thailand? 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am surprised about that.

When I visited Thais in their home (I worked there) I saw them telling their service people rudely what to do. And then they looked at me and maybe made a comment like: They are just too lazy to work or something like that.

Also, in "my" condominium farangs say hello to the maids regularly, and not only they cute maids.

 

We've had plenty of maids who feel more comfortable working for us and mention how poorly their previous employer treated them.

 

I just have not witnessed this first hand - we're often over at friends houses... and the maids are treated politely and with respect.

 

But, they are employees... so they're not exactly treated as equals, I wouldn't expect that, but they are not treated as subhuman servants either.

 

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In average I would say the Thais behave more like: You know I am better than you and I know I am better than you. Not all behave like that, but also not exactly few. 

 

Possibly... I know one Thai friend of my Wife's who certainly give off the impression that she believes she's better than everyone... Her father was a famous actor, she is a famous actor... she seem believes it was her birth-right... 

 

I think the most of the Thai's that I do know treat their maids well because they know how hard it is to find good maids who are honest and reliable - they tend to be with the families for decades...   

 

Thats perhaps a bit different to the 'staff' in an apartment of condo complex..   where there may be a general degree of indifference...  perhaps in this case the foreigner over-compensates because they are not used to having maids etc...

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

like the "fact" double pork cheeseburgers from 7-11 are healthy....preach!

Don't know about that, though probably healthier than many things.  Have to peek at the ingredients next O&A.

[bob smith]

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

In Norway she is looked as a prostitute. Nobody says it, but thats what everyone thinks, and Im sure the same around in Thailand, but in Thailand it doesnt bugging me, here home in Norway, it kind of getting ounder my skin. 

 

How is Thai ladies and their husbands looked at in your own mother countries? Is it different from Thailand? 

Westerners can be forgiven for thinking that about Thai girls with western men.

 

Thailand is a well known country for prostitution the world over.

 

bob.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

who of you two is more happy than the other in each other places? My wife is most happy with her family close around here, 

 

In Norway she is looked as a prostitute. Nobody says it, but thats what everyone thinks, and Im sure the same around in Thailand, but in Thailand it doesnt bugging me, here home in Norway, it kind of getting ounder my skin. 

 

How is Thai ladies and their husbands looked at in your own mother countries? Is it different from Thailand? 

 

We spend plenty of time in the UK... at least 6 weeks each year...

 

We both enjoy it there...  I travel a lot for work and Wife has a very strong network here (family and friends) and I have a strong network of friends here...  so it would be a shame to move back.

 

That said, we have often discussed moving back to the UK (especially for my Sons A Levels and into Uni), my Wife is perfectly comfortable with that idea - I believe she'd fit in very comfortably, she thinks so too...   

 

I have no concerns that she'd be mis-labelled inappropriately...     

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, bob smith said:

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

In Norway she is looked as a prostitute. Nobody says it, but thats what everyone thinks, and Im sure the same around in Thailand, but in Thailand it doesnt bugging me, here home in Norway, it kind of getting ounder my skin. 

 

How is Thai ladies and their husbands looked at in your own mother countries? Is it different from Thailand? 

Westerners can be forgiven for thinking that about Thai girls with western men.

 

Thailand is a well known country for prostitution the world over.

 

bob.

 

I think, if there is a larger age gap and the female in question dresses to flaunt her assets, then assumptions may be drawn... 

... Otherwise...  I don't think a mixed 'couple' draw any more attention than any other couple.. 

[bob smith]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think, if there is a larger age gap and the female in question dresses to flaunt her assets, then assumptions may be drawn... 

... Otherwise...  I don't think a mixed 'couple' draw any more attention than any other couple.. 

correct.

 

I apologize for the lack of depth in my response.

 

bob.

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think, if there is a larger age gap and the female in question dresses to flaunt her assets, then assumptions may be drawn... 

... Otherwise...  I don't think a mixed 'couple' draw any more attention than any other couple.. 

True, very true, and if they also manage to speak almost fluently, they will bee seen different. 

 

Same the other way around, and a reason I never speak Thai if I do not need to, to locals in Thailand. I know I will never be able to understand completely, and speak fluently. I prefer to speak english, and most Thais who have learned english is very happy to use their skills. 

 

My wife learn Norwegian now, and she will speak fluently in 6 months, even before she attends any school, which is the plan for next year when we will move here. She already speaks fluent english,so learning Norwegian is not that hard for her. 

[HappyExpat57]

1 hour ago, Random8 said:

 

You started the argument with me.  You are looking for engagement, d-head.  Common, weak tactics: backpedaling, misrepresenting the past, etc.  You lost already, now you're trying to save face.

 

Looks like you're relatively new here. Welcome to the world of Bob! 😄

[bob smith]

21 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

 

Looks like you're relatively new here. Welcome to the world of Bob! 😄

I'm willing to bet this is his/hers/them/they's 5th or 6th account (at least).

 

bob.

Edited May 26 by bob smith

[HappyExpat57]

1 minute ago, bob smith said:

I'm willing to bet this is his/hers/them/they's 5th or 6th account (at least).

 

bob.

 

Nah, don't buy that. ANYONE who knows you either ignores you or jumps in with both feet to wrestle in the mudfests you create. Arguing with you is a total waste of time. I know you will always reply with some trite crap, that's just who you are.

 

Your turn.

 

[BigBruv]

Just below soi dogs

 

 

[bob smith]

5 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

 

Nah, don't buy that. ANYONE who knows you either ignores you or jumps in with both feet to wrestle in the mudfests you create. Arguing with you is a total waste of time. I know you will always reply with some trite crap, that's just who you are.

 

Your turn.

 

Nah.

 

You're not worth it.

 

bob.

[HappyExpat57]

Just now, bob smith said:

Nah.

 

You're not worth it.

 

bob.

 

555 - Thank you for proving my point.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, Random8 said:

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Seems you are looking for an argument...     I found your comment stupid, apologies if that upsets your sensitivities and you now want to enter forum sparing match...      Its not going to happen, you'll need to up your game if you want engagement.

 

You started the argument with me.  You are looking for engagement, d-head.  Common, weak tactics: backpedaling, misrepresenting the past, etc.  You lost already, now you're trying to save face.

 

As I pointed out.. you'll need to up your game if you want engagement - I don't argue with idiots trying to trigger me.

[ChumpChange]

This thread started with some interesting thoughts and opinions, but it didn't take long for it to race into two pages of the battle for the lowest common denominator. Seems like it's already run its course and reach its expiration date.

[bob smith]

6 minutes ago, ChumpChange said:

This thread started with some interesting thoughts and opinions, but it didn't take long for it to race into two pages of the battle for the lowest common denominator. Seems like it's already run its course and reach its expiration date.

why are you commenting on it then?

 

go to bed or something.

 

bob.

Edited May 26 by bob smith

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, bob smith said:

I'm willing to bet this is his/hers/them/they's 5th or 6th account (at least).

 

bob.

 

Agree... with few posts this is obviously someone carrying their nobhed agenda from another thread...  probably previously banned or running a few accounts to troll people... 

 

It's easy to discern from their socio-linguistic patterns that they lack intelligence, though they seem to be blissfully ignorant of this reality.

 

 

 

 

[JensenZ]

I live in Pattaya precisely for the reason that I blend in with tourists, so from a Thai person's perspective, I'm just a tourist, and that's the way I like it.

 

It's a great way to enjoy living in Thailand without sticking out in a crowd.

[thesetat]

10 hours ago, bob smith said:

what kind of truth is it?

 

are you saying that foreigners cannot naturalize and become Thais?

 

and let me guess, those foreigners aren't really thais, right?

 

bob.

Bob.. I am thinking you went ahead and got naturalized? Nto holding a Thai passport?  So in regards to your comment here. Ask yourself this? HOw would a Thai know you had that done? You may walk up to them speaking fluent Thai.. and the Thai people will be more cautious what they say about you when you are near. You may be close to several Thais in your home area but what about everyone else? 

12 years in this country i have learned we will never be treated the same. We are not in their hierarchy and if accepted into some group like that then it is only to show your white skin to make them look better. WE are walking ATM machines. Perhaps to the woman we love and married we are more than that. Perhaps not. In the end we are cash machines expected to adapt to Thai way and look the other way to everything and pay double or more for the same as Thais. There are only very few people who would think of you in the same class or social status as they do their Thai friends. You are an outsider always, welcome with your gifts or money. Unwelcome for anything else. Believe it or not, I was told this by Thai woman at a restaurant when I first arrived in this country so many years ago. I what they said was the truth. 

You may or may not have a small social circle of Thais you call friends. But they would be the only ones. Anyone else would see you simple as a foreigner with a big wallet.  

[ChumpChange]

1 hour ago, bob smith said:

why are you commenting on it then?

 

go to bed or something.

 

bob.

because it was interesting when it started and there was some meaningful dialogue, but now it's mainly just a bunch of halfwitted and childish personal attacks, no less than 50% of which are from you. 

[Flummoxed]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I agree. And I have to admit I am happy that we frangs are a different group. We are out of the hierarchy and that means we can mix with anybody in Thailand. I knew a farang who lived at times in a slum and then he had a HiSo friend from the royal family. I don't think Thai can do that.

 

I don't think I would want to live in Thailand if I would have been born in Thailand. Maybe if I would have been born in the HiSo. But also they have a long list what they can't do if they want to continue to be part of the HiSo.

 

It's nice to be independent and in part seen as that crazy farang. It frees up the life. 

 

P.S.: This must be the only interesting question Bob ever asked.

This is correct. I've been lucky enough to move through every level of Thai society, EVERY level. It made no difference, excepting that if you're a pretender (like most foreigners here), they'll soon figure you out and exclude you.

The only thing I would say is that even as a foreigner, you're a somebody while at the top of your company, but become a nobody once you retire.

 

 

Quote

I don't think I would want to live in Thailand if I would have been born in Thailand. Maybe if I would have been born in the HiSo. But also they have a long list what they can't do if they want to continue to be part of the HiSo.

 

 

Any Thai who's anyone in Thailand has a second citizenship somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Flummoxed

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

Bob.. I am thinking you went ahead and got naturalized? Nto holding a Thai passport?  So in regards to your comment here. Ask yourself this? HOw would a Thai know you had that done? You may walk up to them speaking fluent Thai.. and the Thai people will be more cautious what they say about you when you are near. You may be close to several Thais in your home area but what about everyone else? 

12 years in this country i have learned we will never be treated the same. We are not in their hierarchy and if accepted into some group like that then it is only to show your white skin to make them look better. WE are walking ATM machines. Perhaps to the woman we love and married we are more than that. Perhaps not. In the end we are cash machines expected to adapt to Thai way and look the other way to everything and pay double or more for the same as Thais. There are only very few people who would think of you in the same class or social status as they do their Thai friends. You are an outsider always, welcome with your gifts or money. Unwelcome for anything else. Believe it or not, I was told this by Thai woman at a restaurant when I first arrived in this country so many years ago. I what they said was the truth. 

You may or may not have a small social circle of Thais you call friends. But they would be the only ones. Anyone else would see you simple as a foreigner with a big wallet.  

this is a very bleak assessment but probably more or less correct. If you have good relations with the few people in your immediate life that's more than enough for me. I don't see why anyone would want to be included deeply into the Thai social order. Sounds like endless headaches navigating their face nonsense and social status rankings. In fact NOT doing those things anymore is a big appeal to living in Thailand in the first place. I for one really appreciate my anonymous position I hold here.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Flummoxed said:

a pretender (like most foreigners here)

Really?

Over the years I met a couple of those special forces guys and people who have great investment ideas. But all in all, few.

Maybe I go to the wrong places to meet all those pretenders. 

[Flummoxed]

Maybe. The alternative is that you're not seeing through it.

[MangoKorat]

15 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Its upto you how people perceive you and where they place you based on what you do or say, not necessarily on what you have, just like any other society. (mostly)

Totally agree.  Generally the respect you are shown, depends on the respect you both present and show others.  Granted, there are exceptions and a few will always regard you as dog dirt - isn't that the same in all countries?  I know there are people in my country that treat any and all foreigners very badly.

 

I have always been shown, respect, kindness and been made welcome.  However, on one night out with Thai friends we received a phone call from the friend of a friend telling us that drinks were taking place at someone's house.  When we arrived one person made it clear that he didn't like me before we'd even spoken.  My mates saw this and we didn't stay long. Nothing was said afterwards but I think my mates were more embarrased than anything else.  That was one guy on one occasion - I don't think you can form an opinion of an entire country based on that.

 

I have an Aussie mate in Thailand who is well known and loved by everyone locally. Thai's go to him for advice and he is very well respected by all.  He treats everyone with respect and always has time for them - you get out what you put in. However, as a foreigner anywhere, you may have to put a little extra in.

 

If I had to state where I had received the least respect then it would be with with officialdom - especially immigration. On two occasions Thai women just walked in front of me in a queue as if I wasn't there - something that's never happened before, anywhere.  However, its just twice in almost 22 years.