Fined 1600 baht for not reporting TM30 (same address)

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

So many threads here on this one.

Some say you have to, others say you don't.

At the end of the day, it is down to the individual immigration officer and even whether he/she/it is going through menopause/period/hangover.

Why are people so against filling in a TM 30?

It only takes a few minutes to do it on-line.

Being pedantic and insisting that you are in the right does not help if they will not give you an extension or whatever.

TM30 has to be done by householder/ landlord. It's not up to the tenant to do it.

[mokwit]

So now we have do first 90 day report in person and file new TM30 when returning from abroad. This is just so "retentive".

 

Meanwhile people on the new 5yr/160 day visa who don't extend in country will never file a TM30* or TM47 whilst staying here for 5 years.

 

In an interview a senior IO said that the reason for TM30 enforcement was that it was embarrassing when they could not find people when requested by foreign police forces or when a tourist hadn't posted on Facebook for 48 hours and for some reason people back home assumed they had been murdered. It is LANDLORDS they should be enforcing TM30 with, not people with stable year on year addresses.

Edited July 19 by mokwit

[Tropicalevo]

I did not specify who had to report it.

However, some folk on this thread are being fined as tenants.

 

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the family had to pay 6400 Baht(yes 1600X 4) to immigration just to extend for 30 deys.  Based upon what i know TM-30 enforcement is supposed to be against the landlord and not the tenant.  But TIT: "somebody has to pay the fine".  

 

The one word I rarely see in play in LOS is: Consistentcy.  In the 1600 Baht is not a huge amount for most of foreigners so I guess one must pay it and move on. I am not surprised at what happened to decline. 

 

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Fine us Bt1,600 because a landlord didn't file TM30, but fine only Bt 600 for Thai landlords at CW it seems. Meanwhile people on the new 5yr/160 day visa who don't extend in country will never file a TM30* or TM47 whilst staying here for 5 years.

 

*landlord could, but many don't want to.

 

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Shakedown.

ive never done a tm30. It bit me one time when I got a new passport and needed to do something at the imm office.

just another way to rob us. Never give in.

 

[sandyf]

37 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your IO is wrong.

If you enter on a new visa or visa exempt and plan to have dealings with immigration such as obtain 30 day extension then you need to file a TM30.

This is irrespective of staying there previously. 

Depends on the office. I came back last Oct on a new visa with a new passport.  I had moved my TM30 from 2015 to the new passport and when I did the extension in Dec nothing was said.

I have yet to do a 90 day report since that arrival, see what happens then.

[ross163103]

Living at the same address for 25 years; last time I went to report at Jomtien the girl said; "You can do if you want but don't have too, better if you do." Talk about vague!

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post ("60 day visa exempt entries)

[Maestro]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

TM30 has to be done by householder/ landlord. It's not up to the tenant to do it.

 

The tenant is the householder, ie the chief possessor of the dwelling in his capacity of tenant.

 

Source: Section 4 of the Immigration Act

[NativeBob]

2 hours ago, john donson said:

why is he afraid, paying 12.5% tax on the rental income ?

Basic greed. I threaten our (former) landlord that I will report her to revenue department and she demanded us to leave within month. So I submited all payments details for last 2+ years. Don't know what happened later 

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

The tenant is the householder, ie the chief possessor of the dwelling in his capacity of tenant.

 

Source: Section 4 of the Immigration Act.

Yet he still requires the landlords ID and housebook for the rental property and for where he resides to file a TM30. Just a lease doesn't cut it.

[novacova]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

American Family of 4 who was renting a house owned by a foreinger.

Don’t rent from foreigners, especially if they don’t live in the country!

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, novacova said:

Don’t rent from foreigners, especially if they don’t live in the country!

especially if they are sub letting (so no TM30 docs).

[Katatonica]

3 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

My house owner refused to do a TM30, I asked him for documentation so I could do it myself, he gave me the wrong documentation. I asked for the correct ones and he gave me 2 months to leave, I didn’t pay the rent for the last 2 months as that was my deposit, he never questioned that.

obvioulsy there was a reason why he didn’t want to do a TM30 even if it meant losing a good tenant of 3 years.

We discovered recently that a neighbour living half a mile away has been using our address on his TM30 for over 15 years. Same landlords.

[Maestro]

Topic title:

Quote

 

Fined 1600 baht for not reporting TM30 (same address)

 

 

@decline Did you get a receipt for the 1,600 Baht?

[teutonian]

2 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

I did not specify who had to report it.

However, some folk on this thread are being fined as tenants.

 

 

 

 

As landlord I have no idea about the comings and going’s of my tenants.  They have a lease and a POA and become “house master”.  As such they need to report their and any other foreigner’s arrivals at the property.  
 

If there is an error or omission or fraud on the reporting form it would be criminal document fraud which I don’t want to engage in. So no, as landlord I absolutely refuse to file TM30 but I give the lessee the documents they need to accomplish the tasks 

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Would this be another good reason to have a legit agent?

Yes , if one is incapable of informing ones self as to the local rules and following them, 

[Expat68]

7 hours ago, decline said:

Is this a new rule?

 

Left the country to do a visa run and returned to the same address.

 

I didn’t think a new TM30 was needed. First time in 7 years this has happened.

Not new rule 

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Basic greed. I threaten our (former) landlord that I will report her to revenue department and she demanded us to leave within month. So I submited all payments details for last 2+ years. Don't know what happened later 

Best not  to "threaten" Thais at all if you can help it,   a better approach would have been words along the lines of ,    "due to the new tax regs that have been applied to foreigners I really  have  no choice unless".......... 

[Bday Prang]

27 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Topic title:

 

@decline Did you get a receipt for the 1,600 Baht?

I'd say that was unlikely,   but at the end of the day 1600 baht is 1600 baht,  receipt or not  is irrelevant really ,   The main thing is to learn the lesson and not make the same mistake twice.  There's little else that can be done other than vent one's spleen on here  

[ifmu]

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In CNX I saw this type of "enforcement" a few times.  The worst case was an American Family of 4 who was renting a house owned by a foreinger.  Guess what?  TM-30 was not updated or even entered.  Anyway the foreign landlord never responded from the renters.  In order to extend the visa's of the 4 family members CNX Immigration fines had to be paid.  So the family had to pay 6400 Baht(yes 1600X 4) to immigration just to extend for 30 deys.  Based upon what i know TM-30 enforcement is supposed to be against the landlord and not the tenant.  But TIT: "somebody has to pay the fine".  

 

The one word I rarely see in play in LOS is: Consistentcy.  In the 1600 Baht is not a huge amount for most of foreigners so I guess one must pay it and move on. I am not surprised at what happened to decline. 

IF landlord does not notify imm then it is YOUR responsibility 

[PETERTHEEATER]

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Your IO is wrong.

If you enter on a new visa or visa exempt and plan to have dealings with immigration such as obtain 30 day extension then you need to file a TM30.

This is irrespective of staying there previously. 

I sought only to show that the only thing consistent with the Thai Immigration Department is their inconsistency. 😄

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

I sought only to show that the only thing consistent with the Thai Immigration Department is their inconsistency. 😄

Indeed and even when an IO is incorrect, I would not complain and just accept their requirements.

I don't have set of immigration stamps in my top draw. 

[Jumbo1968]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Yet he still requires the landlords ID and housebook for the rental property and for where he resides to file a TM30. Just a lease doesn't cut it.

The owner gave me his documents when I asked for them, the name on the House Book was not the same as his IC Card initially an agent rejected them but then accepted them and I got my TM30.

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

Best not  to "threaten" Thais at all if you can help it,   a better approach would have been words along the lines of ,    "due to the new tax regs that have been applied to foreigners I really  have  no choice unless".......... 

Yes, that is the best approach. Normally I mentioned my Embassy requirements (long before this year taxing changes). Worked miracles. 

[Stocky]

8 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I know what the law says but different rules apply in different immigration offices,

Correct, Hat Yai require my wife do a TM30 anytime I leave the province, whether inside or outside Thailand. I'm on a marriage extension and have a multi re-entry permit. We've lived at the same address the last eighteen years.

 

End of last year my wife was a couple days late reporting my presence after I'd returned from Laos. The immigration officer told her that would be a Bht2000 fine, then laughed and said he was only joking.

 

.

Edited July 19 by Stocky

[hereforgood]

I was on a business Visa for 15 years and the last 6 years I've been on a retirement Visa. I have never filled out or filed a tm30 ever never been asked for ever I take care of my immigration in Jomtien office

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

I was on a business Visa for 15 years and the last 6 years I've been on a retirement Visa. I have never filled out or filed a tm30 ever never been asked for ever I take care of my immigration in Jomtien office

I have been here since the Lanna Period and was never asked to file a TM30, it was only in the late Sukothai period that they started demanding them.

[IvorBiggun2]

17 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

I was on a business Visa for 15 years and the last 6 years I've been on a retirement Visa. I have never filled out or filed a tm30 ever never been asked for ever I take care of my immigration in Jomtien office

!5 years or there about before I first got asked for a Tm30. Well I didn't get asked. They fined my missus 500 Baht without me knowing as she'd accompanied me to immigration. If I'd known I wouldn't have let her pay it. It is not farangs responsibility. But as I said earlier another post it's easier to get farang to pay than chase a Thai for money. Wake up. 

Edited July 19 by IvorBiggun2

[atpeace]

30 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

!5 years or there about before I first got asked for a Tm30. Well I didn't get asked. They fined my missus 500 Baht without me knowing as she'd accompanied me to immigration. If I'd known I wouldn't have let her pay it. It is not farangs responsibility. But as I said earlier another post it's easier to get farang to pay than chase a Thai for money. Wake up. 

So you would have refused? What do you think would have happened.  My guess is that you would wish you had paid because it is your responsibility in the end if the landlord doesn't submit.  Silly regulation IMO and  how would we know if the land lord submitted.  It is what it is and fighting would be futile and IMO completely stupid. 

 

In 25 years I have only been questioned once about my TM30 and the fine was discussed but I just smiled and asked some questions and politely told him my reasons for not filing.  He told me to not do it again and I wasn't fined.  If I had refused it most definitely would have ended differently.

Edited July 19 by atpeace

[DrJack54]

Two posts removed re offensive coded language and a comment on moderation 

[jaywalker2]

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In CNX I saw this type of "enforcement" a few times.  The worst case was an American Family of 4 who was renting a house owned by a foreinger.  Guess what?  TM-30 was not updated or even entered.  Anyway the foreign landlord never responded from the renters.  In order to extend the visa's of the 4 family members CNX Immigration fines had to be paid.  So the family had to pay 6400 Baht(yes 1600X 4) to immigration just to extend for 30 deys.  Based upon what i know TM-30 enforcement is supposed to be against the landlord and not the tenant.  But TIT: "somebody has to pay the fine".  

 

The one word I rarely see in play in LOS is: Consistentcy.  In the 1600 Baht is not a huge amount for most of foreigners so I guess one must pay it and move on. I am not surprised at what happened to decline. 

You're right and this is illegal. They justify it by saying it's a "gray area" or the tenant is the "possessor" of the place but it's just an illegal money grab. Welcome to Thailand.