I'm planning to stay in Thailand over 6 months. Would Thai government try to tax me?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That's not enforcement, that's being fined for non-compliance. Enforcement is where the person has to comply, otherwise the penalties are severe, which is why I used the example of the tax clearance certificate.....if you don't file, you don't get a visa and you have to leave, that sort of thing.

So far I have agreed with most of what you have said.  But there is no requirement to lodge a tax return if you have no taxes to pay IMO and you definitely no not lodge a tax return if you have no taxable income (eg. living off savings). Someone that is living in Thailand using money that is not taxable (or has no income taxes to pay) does not and will not get a tax clearance certificate from TRD.  Therefore it cannot be a requirement to extend/renew a VISA because it is not a requirement under Immigration Laws to have lodged a tax return. 

 

Certainly Thailand can change those Taxation and Immigration Laws one day in the future, but until that happens there is no legal basis for Thailand's Immigration enforcement to include the provision of a tax clearance certificate.

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, TroubleandGrumpy said:

So far I have agreed with most of what you have said.  But there is no requirement to lodge a tax return if you have no taxes to pay IMO and you definitely no not lodge a tax return if you have no taxable income (eg. living off savings). Someone that is living in Thailand using money that is not taxable (or has no income taxes to pay) does not and will not get a tax clearance certificate from TRD.  Therefore it cannot be a requirement to extend/renew a VISA because it is not a requirement under Immigration Laws to have lodged a tax return. 

 

Certainly Thailand can change those Taxation and Immigration Laws one day in the future, but until that happens there is no legal basis for Thailand's Immigration enforcement to include the provision of a tax clearance certificate.

 

I agree with those things.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Just now, chiang mai said:

I agree with those things.

Cheers mate. 

 

PS - Many years ago I was told not get angry and wrestle with abcs. The old man said the reason is because the abc does not understand any rules, and has no idea what you are doing, and they will get dirt/mud all over you, and you cannot win unless you kill the abc.  He said it is best to stay out of their pen and not get in there with them - throw rocks at them if you must, even shoot them if you have to, but never get in there with them. 

[Chivas]

12 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Do we know for sure that 5K won't be taxed? I thought someone just brought that up as a example.

 

I did bring it up purely as an example yes. it was then responded to by a certain poster who stated no not at that level to which I responded again ok at what level does it start

 

In the interim he had changed his original one sentence answer into a novel moving the goalposts

Edited August 24 by Chivas

[Lorry]

15 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Hi,

I've been visiting and staying Thailand every year, normally 3 months of every year, for the last 6-7 years. This year I already did 3 months around the beginning of the year. I'm planning to visit and stay again from September to end of the year. So that would be the total of 7 months for this year. Not sure whether this would trigger the "residency rule" (an individual is considered a resident when staying in a country for 6 months or more) and qualify me to be taxed as a Thai resident. I think it's kind of an international rule, including Thailand. The question is whether Thailand enforce it? Would they check the entry visa (two 90 day visa in my case) and go after people who stay in Thailand more than 6 months out of  a year? Please share your experiences or opinions. Thank you.

You will not be asked for taxes during your next stay in Thailand. 

Because during 2025, TRD will deal with all the people who filed taxes for 2024.

 

But: if you plan a future in Thailand,  you may run into the TRD later, maybe if you remit more to buy a condo,  whatever. 

So I would make sure that I am clean if they ever check (3 years back is routine,  10 years back is possible).

3 easy ways for you:

1. Stay no more than 179 days in a calendar year

2. The numbers you told us are  tax-free if you are over 65, married to a Thai,  remit pension income

3. You can remit those 5000 from old savings,  that you had already before 1/1/2024. If you remit old savings,  these remittances are tax-free.

You should be able to prove they are from before 1/1/2024, a good proof is if they come from an account that didn't have any money incoming since 1/1/2024.

[motdaeng]

29 minutes ago, Lorry said:

You will not be asked for taxes during your next stay in Thailand. 

Because during 2025, TRD will deal with all the people who filed taxes for 2024.

 

do you have some inside knowledge that the rest of us don't know about? 

 

however, the second part of your post contains some good advice ... thank you!

[KannikaP]

13 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for your reply. What's 90 day report? Did you mean 180 days? I'm pretty sure that we don't have to pay tax unless we stay longer than 180 days, not 90 days.

A member here since 2021, and doesn't know what a 90 day report is.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Enforcement is where the person has to comply, otherwise the penalties are severe,

That is a rather idiosyncratic definition of enforcement 

 

Dictionaries have a different viewpoint,

Enforcement; the he act or process of enforcing. 

To give force to : STRENGTHEN

There is no mention of penalties being severe. That is purely your own interpretation of the word.

There are penalties for not complying 

[Card]

16 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

Playing devils advocate (and having proof of origin of  cash funds) if I or anybody depart the UK and bring say £5,000 hard cash into Thailand how on earth is that going to be taxed  if I stay 181 days

 

Am not advocating tax evasion as such. This legislation is so full of holes

When you convert foreign currency in thailand through banks or exchanges your passport is copied and ID recorded. That info goes to the tax authorities in both Thailand and your home country automatically.  You have then a legal duty to report in an annual self assessment tax return and if that £5000 is earnings then it is liable to taxation.

[Card]

12 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

A member here since 2021, and doesn't know what a 90 day report is.

It's 183 days

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, Card said:

It's 183 days

A 90 day report  = 183 days. Please explain.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

So far I have agreed with most of what you have said.  But there is no requirement to lodge a tax return if you have no taxes to pay

That is the practice and message given by virtually all TRD officials.

 

However it is not the actual wording of the regulations. The wording of the regulations requires a tax return if your income 

Quote

1. Single Person

Assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht in the tax year

2. Married Person

Assessable income, combined with that of your spouse, exceeding 220,000 baht in the tax year

That nobody expects or wants a tax return unless you should pay tax or are due a refund is just the practice not the law.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

So I would make sure that I am clean if they ever check (3 years back is routine,  10 years back is possible).

It is actually 3 years if you have filed tax returns and 10 years if you have filed no returns.

[chiang mai]

21 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is a rather idiosyncratic definition of enforcement 

 

Dictionaries have a different viewpoint,

Enforcement; the he act or process of enforcing. 

To give force to : STRENGTHEN

There is no mention of penalties being severe. That is purely your own interpretation of the word.

There are penalties for not complying 

I took it for granted that we are discussing meaningful enforcement rather than opportunistic fines and not just the Oxford definition of the word!!!

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, chiang mai said:

I took it for granted that we are discussing meaningful enforcement rather than opportunistic fines and not just the Oxford definition of the word!!!

Enforcement is enforcement.
You claimed no enforcement. A fine for not complying is enforcement. Specially because if you comply you pay nothing, if you do not comply there is usually a 2,000 baht (up to 4,000 baht) fine. Keep not complying and you will keep getting fined 2,000.

Comply, nothing to pay Q.E.D. enforcement.

That the enforcement is not sufficient for some people to bother with doesn’t change the fact that there is enforcement.

 

I well remember the time that an overstay cost 100 per day, people didn’t pay much attention 

Then it jumped to 500 a day, still many paid no attention.

Now as well as the cost there is a progressive ban on reentry.

 

Is that enforcement at the beginning? Of course it was. Just because the penalties got greater doesn’t change the fact of enforcement.

[Scouse123]

17 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Hi,

I've been visiting and staying Thailand every year, normally 3 months of every year, for the last 6-7 years. This year I already did 3 months around the beginning of the year. I'm planning to visit and stay again from September to end of the year. So that would be the total of 7 months for this year. Not sure whether this would trigger the "residency rule" (an individual is considered a resident when staying in a country for 6 months or more) and qualify me to be taxed as a Thai resident. I think it's kind of an international rule, including Thailand. The question is whether Thailand enforce it? Would they check the entry visa (two 90 day visa in my case) and go after people who stay in Thailand more than 6 months out of  a year? Please share your experiences or opinions. Thank you.

 

 

Why don't you just wait for a government announcement later this year instead of getting your knickers in a twist about ifs, buts and maybes?

 

Nobody on this board can say for certain what is going to happen, and it's all guesswork.

[Lorry]

18 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Why don't you just wait for a government announcement later this year instead of getting your knickers in a twist about ifs, buts and maybes?

 

Nobody on this board can say for certain what is going to happen, and it's all guesswork.

Very bad advice.

There will be no government announcement later this year.

Why should there be one?

The rules are very clear since September 2023, nothing more to say.

(Yes, some technicalities like FIFO or not are not clear - but this really has nothing to do with OP).

 

Are you waiting for a government statement "we hereby state that from now on, people living in Thailand have to follow Thai laws"?

And then you will wait for a statement stating whether they really mean it?

 

It's not guesswork at all, what the rules are.  It's reading work.

Whether, when and how the rules will be enforced is,  to a certain degree, guesswork.

But to advise people to wait for a government statement "we will now enforce or laws" is very bad advice.  They won't tell you

[Scouse123]

18 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Very bad advice.

There will be no government announcement later this year.

Why should there be one?

The rules are very clear since September 2023, nothing more to say.

(Yes, some technicalities like FIFO or not are not clear - but this really has nothing to do with OP).

 

Are you waiting for a government statement "we hereby state that from now on, people living in Thailand have to follow Thai laws"?

And then you will wait for a statement stating whether they really mean it?

 

It's not guesswork at all, what the rules are.  It's reading work.

Whether, when and how the rules will be enforced is,  to a certain degree, guesswork.

But to advise people to wait for a government statement "we will now enforce or laws" is very bad advice.  They won't tell you

 

I've been told by somebody in the know, to do nothing at all for the time being and see how things pan out, and I certainly won't be listening to AN members for tax and legal matters.

 

I think it is unenforceable and too complex for Thai bureaucracy to work out, with all the dual tax agreements and tax exemptions, all different, applying to the laws of a multitude of different rules, laws and dual agreements between countries, not just Thailand's rules.

 

 

They are bound by international agreements as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24 by Scouse123

[paahlman]

17 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

Right so where does the entry level actually start ??

First of all its 183 days.. not 180. Further.. The tax kicks in on around 300 000 baht. Because you have to factor in deductables on the transferred cash. If taxable income after deductions are under 200k . there is no to little tax.. But im not 100% sure on that number..., but it is in that region.. Also.. if your country has a tax deal with Thailand its mostly beneficial to tax to two countries as its deductible in home country again. The tax in Thailand is step based. 5%, 10% , 15% and 20 and finally 25% depening on amount.

[motdaeng]

26 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I think it is unenforceable and too complex for Thai bureaucracy to work out ...

 

and i thought thai  authority love make things as complicated as possible ... 

 

btw. TM30 and TM47 took also some time to be in place ...

 

 

Edited August 24 by motdaeng
spelling

[Scouse123]

33 minutes ago, Lorry said:

 

Whether, when and how the rules will be enforced is,  to a certain degree, guesswork.

 

 

That's my point, and I've been told to sit on the fence for now.

 

And the person who told me that often has columns in the press regarding tax, he writes in newspapers, and his articles are published on many forums, including this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24 by Scouse123

[BusyB]

 

Theoretically yes. Theoretically no.

[Sjptain]

17 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I have worked for PWC as an audit senior for three years and am formally trained in tax, but modesty prevents me from referring to myself as expert in anything. I have also studied Thai tax and the Thai Revenue Code extensively for nine months so I do know a little about the topic.

Does it mean that if we end up paying Thai taxes that we are entitled to Thai Benefits as a tax-payer (not that there would be much)?

[FritsSikkink]

18 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

Playing devils advocate (and having proof of origin of  cash funds) if I or anybody depart the UK and bring say £5,000 hard cash into Thailand how on earth is that going to be taxed  if I stay 181 days

 

Am not advocating tax evasion as such. This legislation is so full of holes

Can you live of £5,000 for 181 days?

[motdaeng]

1 minute ago, Sjptain said:

Does it mean that if we end up paying Thai taxes that we are entitled to Thai Benefits as a tax-payer (not that there would be much)?

 

no ... where came that idea from ... 

[topt]

15 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

That's my point, and I've been told to sit on the fence for now.

 

And the person who told me that often has columns in the press regarding tax, he writes in newspapers, and his articles are published on many forums, including this one.

That wouldn't be Barry Kenyon by any chance?

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Sjptain said:

Does it mean that if we end up paying Thai taxes that we are entitled to Thai Benefits as a tax-payer (not that there would be much)?

 Nope! Most benefits are linked to social security, not income tax 

[topt]

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

and wrestle with abcs

Sorry but is this some Aussie slang - what is an abc?

[Srikcir]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

It hardly even works in western countries.

Hunter Biden

[Jumbo1968]

The government haven’t even said they are going deduct the tax as yet.