The annoyance of the ++ prices

[Dirk Z]

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

[SAFETY FIRST]

2 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

There's quite a few foreign owned businesses in Pattaya do the same thing. 

 

[MalcolmB]

Thankyou for your question.

 

VAT registered businesses can offset the VAT paid against their on VAT with their tax return. Not every business is VAT registered so it is to let you know.

 

The service charge is there so you do not have to bother leaving a tip. Makes it easier. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

 

Would you prefer to buy something for 99B or 116B?

That's your answer.

 

Everybody who spent some time in Thailand knows about this. There is no surprise. Just get used to it.

[Bill97]

Go back to Europe Dirk,  there is much worse here that will knock you off your feet 

[scubascuba3]

I guess they are being sneaky by showing the lower prices, yes they could easily add the VAT and tip, just avoid those places if you don't like it

[Foxx]

Isn't this even worse in the United States? Go to a supermarket and often surprise taxes are added - state sales tax, county sales tax.  No clear pricing.

[IsaanExpat]

5 minutes ago, Foxx said:

Isn't this even worse in the United States? Go to a supermarket and often surprise taxes are added - state sales tax, county sales tax.  No clear pricing.

Can confirm

[Dirk Z]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Would you prefer to buy something for 99B or 116B?

That's your answer.

 

Everybody who spent some time in Thailand knows about this. There is no surprise. Just get used to it.

So I buy something for 99 baht and find out I have to pay 116?

[brewsterbudgen]

If service is included, you don't need to leave a tip.  If service is bad, refuse to pay the charge and see how you get on!

 

VAT is just part of life!

[bkk6060]

It certainly seems to be an inticement to get people in the door when they try to hide it.  A 499 buffet with a small asterisk near it.  Then, read another place the ++.  Not a scam per say, just seems to be a thing here.

[Bill97]

18 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

So I buy something for 99 baht and find out I have to pay 116?

Are you really that dense?

[ModdaPunk]

1 hour ago, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

 

Just boycott these shops.

This is what I do.

If a shop doesn't show prices or lies on the displayed prices, I don't buy.

Period.

Everybody doesn't that and these practices will fade away.

[KannikaP]

14 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Are you really that dense?

No need for insults. Say it was advertised at Bht 9999, but they asked for 11600, what would you do?

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

Or you can just relax and come back to Thailand when you can afford to eat without complaining.

[Pouatchee]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

Isn't this even worse in the United States? Go to a supermarket and often surprise taxes are added - state sales tax, county sales tax.  No clear pricing.

 

in quebec, canada you can add 14% tax that is not yet on the price... now that sucks

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Dirk Z said:

So I buy something for 99 baht and find out I have to pay 116?

 

No, you know it will cost roughly 120B because you know that the prices are often ++. 

Or how often does this have to happen to you before you are not surprised anymore? 

 

And just to give you something to worry about: Maybe you decide to buy one of those discount memberships which some hotels sell. Maybe you get 30% or 50% discount.

Yes, but.... Let's say you see a meal advertised for 1,000B with 50% discount. How much will you pay?

Maybe probably think 1000B * 50% = 500B + 50B = 550B + 7% = 588.5B.

Surprise! You have to pay 1000B * 50% = 500B + 100B (10% service on top of the original price) = 600B + 7% = 642B.

So now that also won't surprise you anymore.

I know this calculation happens with some membership programs, I don't know if it happens with many or all of them.

 

[Dirk Z]

4 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Or you can just relax and come back to Thailand when you can afford to eat without complaining.

It has nothing to do with being able to afford to eat. I perfectly well can. You may not have understood that my issue is about informing customers what they may expect.

[Dirk Z]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

No, you know it will cost roughly 120B because you know that the prices are often ++. 

Or how often does this have to happen to you before you are not surprised anymore? 

 

And just to give you something to worry about: Maybe you decide to buy one of those discount memberships which some hotels sell. Maybe you get 30% or 50% discount.

Yes, but.... Let's say you see a meal advertised for 1,000B with 50% discount. How much will you pay?

Maybe probably think 1000B * 50% = 500B + 50B = 550B + 7% = 588.5B.

Surprise! You have to pay 1000B * 50% = 500B + 100B (10% service on top of the original price) = 600B + 7% = 642B.

So now that also won't surprise you anymore.

I know this calculation happens with some membership programs, I don't know if it happens with many or all of them.

 

You are right about this, I have one of these memberships and know that 30% discount is more like 20%, but this is a bit beyond the scope of this thread.

[simon43]

I never eat at any establishments that impose a service charge and don't clearly show any compulsory taxes/VAT.  It is also totally up to me to tip or not, based on the service...

[Gottfrid]

21 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

It has nothing to do with being able to afford to eat. I perfectly well can. You may not have understood that my issue is about informing customers what they may expect.

Yes, and it stands on the menu. We all know about this, and it´s only a issue for you. Actually they have the same system in many countries.

[still kicking]

3 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yes, and it stands on the menu. We all know about this, and it´s only a issue for you. Actually they have the same system in many countries.

Agree I live in OZ we have similar system try eating out in OZ one cafe charged $AUD 9 for a small bag of chips(French Fries)

[GanDoonToonPet]

In the vast majority of Bangkok pubs I go to, the advertised / menu price is what you pay. The only place I remember that pulls that crap is the Irish bar at the end of KSR whereas all the British / Irish pubs I go to on Suk don't.

[FritsSikkink]

20 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

Marketing, let you think it is a good deal.

[degodasilva]

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If service is included, you don't need to leave a tip.  If service is bad, refuse to pay the charge and see how you get on!

 

VAT is just part of life!

And this is exactly what I have a problem with.

 

Come on, we're all sensible adults here: why have an added charge for service? It's a restaurant, of course I expect to be served - it's all part of the same dining experience and should be all inclusive, so why not incorporate this supposed charge (and VAT) into the price of the food on the menu?

 

I also don't appreciate the arrogance of being told I've received a certain level of service. Surely I'll be the judge of that, and if I feel the service has been good then I'll tip accordingly, and if I don't then I won't, and perhaps then the standards of service might improve.

 

Regarding not paying the service charge, I believe that in the UK you can dispute it and aren't legally obliged to pay, although I imagine this doesn't go down too well, unless of course there was a very obvious problem. 

[Davedub]

I'd always assumed it was an American import - I remember my chagrin at what felt like deception during my first US trip when I found out all the prices in the supermarkets were incorrect - what you actually pay at the checkout has state and some sort of federal tax added.

Coming from a country where the price you see is the price you pay, it seems like a very strange, unnecessarily complicated practice -  please just tell me what the thing actually costs ffs, life is complicated enough!

[jippytum]

I sgree the price shown on the menu should be inclusive. 

Many esablisments do not pass the gratuities to the staff. 

Customer should decide if food and service good then tip accordingly. 

[Sydebolle]

The US requires the "defenders of freedom" to add 15% to the consumption - compulsory. 

As earlier on said, the VAT applies to all businesses with a turnover over a certain amount (THB 1.6 mio. as far as I remember), below that VAT does not apply. Service charge is not compulsory; yet if it is on the menu, then you get charged for it - alternatively vote with your feet and dine elsewhere. 

[ronster]

Don't forget city tax ! Seen it on a bill in samui and just laughed . There was also another tax I seen somewhere on a bill while there but can't remember what for . I think it was something like municipal tax . 

This was as well as city tax , vat and service charge 😀

[scorecard]

21 hours ago, Foxx said:

Isn't this even worse in the United States? Go to a supermarket and often surprise taxes are added - state sales tax, county sales tax.  No clear pricing.

 Plus in the US waiters etc., who will demand an extra 10 - 20% tip, they believe it's their right regardless of the level of service they have given. I've heard stories of waiters who follow diners to the car park to demand a tip. Wow.