Would Donald Trump’s tariffs hurt US consumers?

[frank83628]

A thread started by an Australian about effecting US citizens... AKA, I have the acronym syndrome, but not an American, so I don't really have a place in this forum, but I hate Trump because I read MSM news and they made my opinion for me.

Boo too, tantrum thrown, 😭😭

Edited Thursday at 03:39 PM by frank83628

[ericthai]

 

12 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You have no clue, it doesn't benefit the consumer, it benefits USA companies who make the same products.

I am not left either.

You're missing the point. These companies employee people, so they create jobs!

You cant be a consumer if you dont have a job to make money to buy the products.

 

Tariffs aren't about prices, it's about jobs that make those products! Why do you think China has expanded so much, companies building factories in China and creating jobs.  A lot of good paying jobs have left USA.  

[Patong2021]

10 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Sure. 

 

Leftism is an ideology which has as its underlying philosophy the good of the collective in a utopian framework based on a (false) determination of human nature, with such Utopia to be achieved by the destruction of those who oppose it. It has been called Bolshevism, Menshivism, National Socialism, Marxism, Leninism, Trotkyism Stalinism, and  Fascism and operates under the umbrella term of Socialism.

 

is characterized by being revolutionary in nature with the movement led by a hard core cadre who are convinced of the scientific basis of their philosophy that will lead mankind into the future. Cult like, the righteousness of their cause makes those who oppose it  the enemy who must be destroyed. Democracy is incompatible with Socialism, since Democracy requires free thought.

 

So how is that hate? Pointing out that the philosophy adhered to by so many leaves bodies in ditches?

 

 

The assumption that tariffs will bring back manufacturing to the USA is  unfounded.  Supply chains and logistics, access to  skilled and cost effective  labour,  and access to markets are the drivers of manufacturing location. Consumers forced the relocation of consumer goods to low cost countries because consumers refused to pay $25 for an item that they felt should cost $10. Manufacturers liked the profit margins. The USA did not have workers willing to work low wage manufacturing jobs.  Even when the wages were good, the product quality was  terrible. The US auto industry killed itself in the 1970's with its poor quality vehicles that ignored consumer desires. Consumers want the high quality Japanese vehicles and forcing them to pay more isn't going to help Chrysler or GM sell more of its crap. 

 

The  United States Tariff Act of 1930, aka the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was an unmitigated economic disaster. It resulted in a catastrophic trade disruption and magnified the negative effects of the the Republican induced Great Depression. Prior to its implementation, more than 1,000 economists urged President Hoover to veto the Act, but he refused.  In the words of the great US sage Yogi Berra, it's deja vu all over again, because economists are warning Trump not to impose tariffs. 

 

Broad tariffs implementation are anything but compatible with "free thought" and are not Democratic. On the contrary, they are  hallmarks of dictatorships and of simplistic thinking when confronted with complex issues. If there are issues with alleged dumping or unfair trade practices, deal with them directly. Mass threats do not work and have never worked, because corrupt people will find away to work around the edicts. It is obvious that you haven't the slightest clue on anything. You are like those people in the US who claim they are Sovereign Citizens and recite mangled  misinterpreted nonsensical legal references. You accuse proponents of  liberalized equitable trade practice as being leftists, and yet you offer absolute support for tariffs.  Broad tariffs and restrictive trade practices go hand in hand and they have never delivered the promised results in the USA. Anyone who disagrees is accused of being a "leftist".

[bubblegum]

29 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

A thread started by an Australian about effecting US citizens... AKA, I have the acronym syndrome, but not an American, so I don't really have a place in this forum, but I hate Trump because I read MSM news and they made my opinion for me.

Boo too, tantrum thrown, 😭😭

Dude you really believe this forum is for USA folks only? Another Frank brainfart.

[bubblegum]

6 minutes ago, ericthai said:

 

You're missing the point. These companies employee people, so they create jobs!

You cant be a consumer if you dont have a job to make money to buy the products.

 

Tariffs aren't about prices, it's about jobs that make those products! Why do you think China has expanded so much, companies building factories in China and creating jobs.  A lot of good paying jobs have left USA.  

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. Do take the time to see the WSJ clip on earlier posts, educate yourself, then come back.

[ericthai]

10 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Of course tariffs are going to hurt the consumer, it doesn’t take a mastermind to figure that out. Who do you think is ultimately going to pay for that 10-20-50% price hike? 

or companies bring manufacturing back to the USA (just like they left when free trade agreements were made)

Shipping something half way around the world is costly not only financially but also environmentally.

 

Myself and several of my friends try to only buy products made in the USA, sometimes I pay a little more but I know I'm supporting the US economy and a US job.  I dont believe it's going be tariffs across the board either. It will be selective depending on product.  

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

I dont believe it's going be tariffs across the board either. It will be selective depending on product.

Get back to me in 6-12 months and then we’ll see….

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

IF what you say is true. Prices go up because the imports are putting the tariff cost to the customer. Who is to say that Trump can not put a price freeze on imports as well as a Tariff? If they freeze the prices would this not stop the costs reaching the consumers forcing the countries exporting things to the US to actually cover the cost? 

No. Absolutely not. 

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The assumption that tariffs will bring back manufacturing to the USA is  unfounded.  Supply chains and logistics, access to  skilled and cost effective  labour,  and access to markets are the drivers of manufacturing location. Consumers forced the relocation of consumer goods to low cost countries because consumers refused to pay $25 for an item that they felt should cost $10. Manufacturers liked the profit margins. The USA did not have workers willing to work low wage manufacturing jobs.  Even when the wages were good, the product quality was  terrible. The US auto industry killed itself in the 1970's with its poor quality vehicles that ignored consumer desires. Consumers want the high quality Japanese vehicles and forcing them to pay more isn't going to help Chrysler or GM sell more of its crap. 

 

The  United States Tariff Act of 1930, aka the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was an unmitigated economic disaster. It resulted in a catastrophic trade disruption and magnified the negative effects of the the Republican induced Great Depression. Prior to its implementation, more than 1,000 economists urged President Hoover to veto the Act, but he refused.  In the words of the great US sage Yogi Berra, it's deja vu all over again, because economists are warning Trump not to impose tariffs. 

 

Broad tariffs implementation are anything but compatible with "free thought" and are not Democratic. On the contrary, they are  hallmarks of dictatorships and of simplistic thinking when confronted with complex issues. If there are issues with alleged dumping or unfair trade practices, deal with them directly. Mass threats do not work and have never worked, because corrupt people will find away to work around the edicts. It is obvious that you haven't the slightest clue on anything. You are like those people in the US who claim they are Sovereign Citizens and recite mangled  misinterpreted nonsensical legal references. You accuse proponents of  liberalized equitable trade practice as being leftists, and yet you offer absolute support for tariffs.  Broad tariffs and restrictive trade practices go hand in hand and they have never delivered the promised results in the USA. Anyone who disagrees is accused of being a "leftist".

Thank you. A well thought out post, and a voice of reason in the wilderness of Marxist style Trump propaganda. Selling yourself as a candidate by using slogans and platitudes does not change economic realities. 

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

 

Tarrifs are not only to hurt the other country but they are also to protect the industries in the country.  The challenge that the U.S. has is because industries and buyers look outside the country for cheap knock offs that they make into a top product.  

 

Car imports, phones I phones in particular  Consider that when covid hit the U.S. did not have enough thermometers because China could not produce them fast enough.  TRUMP has the plan to bring back the industries and make things at home.

I think that calling it a plan is a bit of a stretch. I would say it was an effective campaign slogan and it's actually a good concept, but it's incredibly complicated, and he's trying to pretend as if it is very simple, which is very typical of his somewhat simple-minded thought process. 

 

For big companies changing manufacturing locations requires years, and is not something that can be done overnight without  becoming a huge tax hike (tariffs) on the American population. 

[EveryG]

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I dislike tariffs as much as you, but I don't think you can label them as a socialist policy. 

I was using socialist in the same dumb and erroneous way MAGAs use it so they would understand. 

[mdr224]

The tariffs were kept by biden, and only concerns small minded people. The issue is inflation. Hopefully Trump can follow Ron Pauls advice on how to decrease the deficit and keep inflation at a non insane level like the last four years

[EveryG]

3 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

The tariffs were kept by biden, and only concerns small minded people. The issue is inflation. Hopefully Trump can follow Ron Pauls advice on how to decrease the deficit and keep inflation at a non insane level like the last four years

You mention tariffs being the concerns of small minded people, then mention Ron Paul, oblivious to the fact that Ron Paul recently, consistently, and vehemently opposes tariffs.  You represent the cluelessness of MAGAs very well. 

Quote

Tariffs are serious business, that come with serious consequences. First, there is the crony capitalist problem. Government gets intimately involved in picking and choosing which companies will benefit from tariffs, and which won’t. Whenever government starts to shower benefits on corporations (or individuals) there is strong tendency for those benefits to become perpetual; for them to never end.... Next, there is the problem that the tariffs are paid by the American consumer (not China, and not the EU). It’s the American consumer that pays the tariff tax. President Trump does not have the power to tax China. If he mailed them a tax bill, they wouldn’t pay it. It would go uncollected. The U.S. government does, however, have the power to tax Americans; and they'll make sure it's collected. So, we the American people will pay the tariff, which means more of our money will be sent to DC for them to either waste themselves (or more likely) re-route to Ukraine or Israel, on even more war.

https://x.com/RonPaul/status/1849162116281852303

[mdr224]

1 minute ago, EveryG said:

You mention tariffs being the concerns of small minded people, then mention Ron Paul, oblivious to the fact that Ron Paul recently, consistently, and vehemently opposes tariffs.  You represent the cluelessness of MAGAs very well. 

Im a libertarian and can still admit that if tariffs were taken off chinese goods then the american auto business wouldnt survive

[amexpat]

Biggest US economic blunder.  Google it.

 

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, also known as the Tariff Act of 1930, was a law that increased tariffs on imported goods to the United States by about 20%: 

 

 

• Purpose

  The law was intended to protect American farmers and other industries from foreign competitors. 

   

   
• Impact

  The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act led to a decline in global trade, which contributed to the Great Depression. The law also raised the prices of food and other items. 

   

   
• Reaction

  At least 25 countries responded to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act by increasing their own tariffs on American goods. 

   

   
• Supporters

  The law was sponsored by Senator Reed Smoot of Utah and Representative Willis Hawley of Oregon. 

   

   
• Opposition

  More than 1,000 economists urged President Herbert Hoover to veto the bill. 

   

   
• Result

  The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression. In 1932, voters turned the majority in both houses over to the Democrats, who booted Smoot and Hawley out of office. 

   

   
• Legacy

  The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act highlighted the dangers of protectionist trade policies for the world economy. After the law, most countries promoted free trade agreements. 

[EveryG]

9 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Im a libertarian and can still admit that if tariffs were taken off chinese goods then the american auto business wouldnt survive

Wait, so now they are not for the small minded, but saving an entire industry? An interesting switch there. 

 

If you are in favor of tariffs being used to save the auto industry, you are not a libertarian. Period.

 

The American auto industry is failing, and will inevitably end, because it makes overpriced garbage that the world does not want to buy. Tax payers can keep propping them up, but they will fail unless they change their business model. They have no incentive to change their business model because the US taxpayer keeps them afloat. This is exactly why Ron Paul and any other actual libertarian would oppose tariffs. 

 

Stop playing as if you are a libertarian 

Edited Friday at 03:19 AM by EveryG

[mdr224]

1 minute ago, EveryG said:

Wait, so now they are not for the small minded, but saving an entire industry? An interesting switch there. 

 

If you are in favor of tariffs being used to save the auto industry, you are not a libertarian. Period.

 

The American auto industry is failing, and will inevitably end, because it makes overpriced garbage that the world does not want to buy. Tax payers can keep propping them up, but they will fail unless they change their business model. They have no incentive to change their business model because the US taxpayer keeps propping them up. 

 

Stop playing as if you are a libertarian 

Are you american? Seems you favor chinas best interests, not ours

[frank83628]

10 hours ago, bubblegum said:

Dude you really believe this forum is for USA folks only? Another Frank brainfart.

No, you misread my comment, I think its pathetic for Australian to start a thread about Trumps tariffs effecting US citizens. Why not how they'd effect his home country. It just shows the high levels Trump derangement obsession he is suffering.

[EveryG]

2 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Are you american? Seems you favor chinas best interests, not ours

I can see you are having a hard time following, which is not surprising. It is in the best interest of the US to stop propping up failing industries so that they either innovate or die. Musk is part of the US auto industry, and he makes the highest selling car in Australia. You know what countries want cars from Detroit? None. It's in no one's best interest to use US taxpayer money to prop up a bunch of failing companies. 

[mdr224]

1 minute ago, EveryG said:

I can see you are having a hard time following, which is not surprising. It is in the best interest of the US to stop propping up failing industries so that they either innovate or die. Musk is part of the US auto industry, and he makes the highest selling car in Australia. You know what countries want cars from Detroit? None. It's in no one's best interest to use US taxpayer money to prop up a bunch of failing companies. 

And i can see you are not american, so your opinion means little to me

[bubblegum]

1 minute ago, mdr224 said:

And i can see you are not american, so your opinion means little to me

Typical of a small mind

[EveryG]

2 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

And i can see you are not american, so your opinion means little to me

I was born in the USA, have a US passport, and I vote. Your opinion means little to me because it's ill-informed, not well thought out, and inconsistent.

Edited Friday at 03:32 AM by EveryG

[mogandave]

11 hours ago, bubblegum said:

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. Do take the time to see the WSJ clip on earlier posts, educate yourself, then come back.

The video pointed out the factories were opened in the US as a result of the tariffs, yes?

[mdr224]

1 minute ago, EveryG said:

I was born in the USA, have a US passport, and I vote. Your opinion means little to me because it's ill-informed, not well thought out, and inconsistent.

You seem more of an asset to China than to us

[EveryG]

2 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

You seem more of an asset to China than to us

When all of your points are systematically destroyed, and you are exposed as a MAGA posing as a libertarian, this is what you are left with.  

[mdr224]

1 minute ago, EveryG said:

When all of your points are systematically destroyed, and you are exposed as a MAGA posing as a libertarian, this is what you are left with.  

Your ideology has been rejected by America though, what you think is best for our country is irrelevant. Your candidate lost

[FritsSikkink]

11 hours ago, ericthai said:

A lot of good paying jobs have left USA.  

Because the wages are too high / productivity to low compared to third world countries.

[bubblegum]

8 minutes ago, mogandave said:

The video pointed out the factories were opened in the US as a result of the tariffs, yes?

At a cost of 800.000-- bucks workplace. well done. Oh you missed the point that those factories are in fact NON American ! 

[mogandave]

9 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

At a cost of 800.000-- bucks workplace. well done. Oh you missed the point that those factories are in fact NON American ! 

I was only pointing out that you were lying when you said no jobs were created. 

 

You have no credibility 

[EveryG]

12 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Your ideology has been rejected by America though, what you think is best for our country is irrelevant. Your candidate lost

This is what MAGAs resort to when they can't actually discuss the issues. This isn't about ideology. YOU have been exposed here. Please keep trying to deflect, but it's obvious that YOU have no grasp of the issues. YOU make claims to be something you are not. YOU make inconsistent arguments. YOU, not your ideology, but YOU are individually sad.