4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nope, he only requested an arrest warrant for one person when it was presented to the judges to decide. 

 

That's correct.  As Chief Prosecutor for the ICC,  Karim Khan can request a warrant, but only the ICC panel of judges has the power to issue it. Khan was in a bit of a bind when it came to the Oct 7 attacks.  He was forced to request warrants for the leaders of Hamas as well as Israel,   It would be blatantly antisemitic to go after Netanyahu for responding to the Oct. 7 attacks but ignore the Hamas leaders who ordered the terrorist murders of Israelis and non-Israelis.  

 

However, an ICC warrant on a living Hamas leader would put Israel's opponents in a very sticky situation.  South Africa,  the State of Palestine and some other Muslim  and non-Muslim nations which had ratified the Rome Statute would be bound to arrest the Hamas leaders as well as Netanyahu and Gallant.  Obviously those countries weren't going to do that, which would make the ICC warrants an absurd exercise.  How can the State of Palestine or South Africa demand other countries arrest Netanyahu while harboring Hamas leaders with warrants?  There are plenty of Hamas leaders still living who were complicit in the Oct. 7 attacks but it is highly doubtful Khan will request warrants for them.

 

Ironically, South Africa had been trying for seven years to withdraw from the Rome Statute.  In  2015,  South Africa refused to arrest Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir on an ICC warrant during his visit to the country.  Al-Bashir had been accused by the ICC of  genocide,  crimes against humanity and war crimes in Darfur.  In 2023, South Africa renewed its intention of withdrawing from the ICC because of the arrest warrant on Russia's Putin.  Putin was at that time scheduled to visit South Africa for a BRICs summit in August.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africa-try-withdraw-icc-again-ramaphosa-2023-04-25/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34509342

On 12/2/2024 at 7:42 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Why does being Israeli make it unreliable? Are Israeli facts different? Or is it because they are Jewish? Are Jewish facts less reliable?

 

You are also being plainly dishonest, the link is quite clearly about the recent blockade by Egypt

 

As for US rebuke, it's blame the injured party, i.e. Egypt. Until Israel took over the Philadelphi corridor inviolation of the 1979 treaty, some Palestinians could get out for medical treatment, etc.

 

As for the unreliability of IDF and Israeli government spokesmen, their output has to conform to the narrative that they have been drilling into Israeli heads for years, dehumanizing Palestinians. Similarly, most of the Israeli media, except Haaretz, +972 and a few others, repeat the talking points, just as Nderitu and the Wall Street Journal opinion writers. The Washington Post opinion board also put out the same falsehoods. The Israeli propaganda a/k/a hasbara machine is working overtime. 

5 minutes ago, placnx said:

As for US rebuke, it's blame the injured party, i.e. Egypt. Until Israel took over the Philadelphi corridor inviolation of the 1979 treaty, some Palestinians could get out for medical treatment, etc.

 

As for the unreliability of IDF and Israeli government spokesmen, their output has to conform to the narrative that they have been drilling into Israeli heads for years, dehumanizing Palestinians. Similarly, most of the Israeli media, except Haaretz, +972 and a few others, repeat the talking points, just as Nderitu and the Wall Street Journal opinion writers. The Washington Post opinion board also put out the same falsehoods. The Israeli propaganda a/k/a hasbara machine is working overtime. 

As for the unreliability of IDF and Israeli government spokesmen, their output has to conform to the narrative that they have been drilling into Israeli heads for years, dehumanizing Palestinians.

 

Absolute unsubstantiated nonsense, your excuse for disregarding credible media. Pathetic

 

On 12/2/2024 at 7:40 AM, placnx said:

Your source, FDD, or Foundation for Defense of Democracies, i.e. Israel, is hardly reliable.

 

 

5 hours ago, placnx said:

As for the unreliability of IDF and Israeli government spokesmen, their output has to conform to the narrative that they have been drilling into Israeli heads for years, dehumanizing Palestinians. Similarly, most of the Israeli media, except Haaretz, +972 and a few others, repeat the talking points, just as Nderitu and the Wall Street Journal opinion writers. The Washington Post opinion board also put out the same falsehoods. The Israeli propaganda a/k/a hasbara machine is working overtime. 

 

@placnx  What sources do you consider to be reliable on the Israel-Hamas conflict?  What sources do you use to get your information?  Please name any mainstream or alternate media; international organizations (official or NGO);  think tanks; professors and other experts; government spokeman or any other source of information on the conflict you feel is reliable.  

 

Do you believe that the leaders of  Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are more truthful than Netanyahu?

A post has been removed contravening community standards

 

9.Links to outside content should always include relevant commentary. Blind links to outside content with no context or explanation may be removed.

I would trust NGO 's after extensive research. War crimes are a serious issue and the accusations are becoming more and more profound.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

Just now, stevenl said:

I would trust NGO 's after extensive research. War crimes are a serious issue and the accusations are becoming more and more profound.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

 

 

I bet you would, no evidence of course but yes you trust them. Topic here anyway.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1345458-amnesty-international-its-a-genocide-in-gaza/

 

In an Opinion piece, the Editorial Board of The Wall Street  Journal does a good job of brushing off the Amnesty International report. Basically, the WSJ says Amnesty had to change the definition of genocie to make the accusation fit.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/amnesty-international-report-israel-genocide-hamas-gaza-811acf05?page

The Propaganda War on Israel Never Stops

Amnesty International lends its once-good name to the genocide lie.

From the people who brought you “Israeli apartheid” comes another trendy smear: “Israeli genocide.” With a new report Wednesday night, Amnesty International assures its good standing in the anti-Israel herd. The price is to swallow an inversion of reality.

 

 

On 12/4/2024 at 11:27 PM, Evil Penevil said:

 

 

 

 

@placnx  What sources do you consider to be reliable on the Israel-Hamas conflict?  What sources do you use to get your information?  Please name any mainstream or alternate media; international organizations (official or NGO);  think tanks; professors and other experts; government spokeman or any other source of information on the conflict you feel is reliable.  

 

Do you believe that the leaders of  Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are more truthful than Netanyahu?

First of all, the juxtaposition of Netanyahu with Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran is not the point. More appropriate is the truth that we can see with out own eyes in videos from the crime scenes compared to the denials by Netanyahu et al.

 

I think that reports from BBC and al Jazeera are largely factual, although they may intervew people with bias and sometimes fail to explain the ideologial background of their think tank or NGO. For me, that's not a problem, but can confuse the average viewer.

 

As for your request to name sources, the list is very long for a subject that I have followed since the 1960s.   

Hungary withdraws from the I.C.C so that Netanyahu can visit Hungary .

Wonder whether this will set a precedent of Countries withdrawing from the ICC ?

 

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hungary withdraws from the I.C.C so that Netanyahu can visit Hungary .

Wonder whether this will set a precedent of Countries withdrawing from the ICC ?

 

 

 Saying you are withdrawing is one thing, but it takes up to a year, according to Amnesty International.

 

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

Withdrawal from the International Criminal Court is possible under Article 127 of the Rome Statute. Such a withdrawal takes effect one year after notification is received by the UN treaty office in New York. Crucially, therefore, withdrawal does not impact Hungary’s current legal obligations as a member state, including to arrest all those subject to ICC arrest warrants and of full cooperation in relation to ongoing investigations.

Its withdrawal is a betrayal of all victims of war crimes and undermines the protections afforded the Hungarian people, as it removes, in a year, their opportunity to seek justice at the ICC for crimes committed against them.   

State officials from ICC state parties should sever all non-essential contact with fugitives like Netanyahu who are wanted by the Court. All EU states have committed to avoid such non-essential contacts as official EU policy.  

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2025/04/hungary-withdrawal-from-icc-does-not-absolve-hungary-of-its-legal-obligation-to-arrest-fugitive-benjamin-netanyahu/

26 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 Saying you are withdrawing is one thing, but it takes up to a year, according to Amnesty International.

 

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

Withdrawal from the International Criminal Court is possible under Article 127 of the Rome Statute. Such a withdrawal takes effect one year after notification is received by the UN treaty office in New York. Crucially, therefore, withdrawal does not impact Hungary’s current legal obligations as a member state, including to arrest all those subject to ICC arrest warrants and of full cooperation in relation to ongoing investigations.

Its withdrawal is a betrayal of all victims of war crimes and undermines the protections afforded the Hungarian people, as it removes, in a year, their opportunity to seek justice at the ICC for crimes committed against them.   

State officials from ICC state parties should sever all non-essential contact with fugitives like Netanyahu who are wanted by the Court. All EU states have committed to avoid such non-essential contacts as official EU policy.  

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2025/04/hungary-withdrawal-from-icc-does-not-absolve-hungary-of-its-legal-obligation-to-arrest-fugitive-benjamin-netanyahu/

 

Ai is  wrong and it knows it is wrong.

There is no mechanism for Hungary to execute the arrest warrant because  the ICC treaty is not reflected in Hungarian law. In plain language, if Hungary wanted to arrest Netanyahu, there would be no legal basis to do it. The international court law was never incorporated into the country's own national legal code.

17 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Ai is  wrong and it knows it is wrong.

There is no mechanism for Hungary to execute the arrest warrant because  the ICC treaty is not reflected in Hungarian law. In plain language, if Hungary wanted to arrest Netanyahu, there would be no legal basis to do it. The international court law was never incorporated into the country's own national legal code.

 

Do you have any proof of your statement?

 

The Presidency of the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute expresses concern in response to the announcement that the Government of Hungary has taken steps for Hungary to withdraw from the Rome Statute, the founding treaty of the International Criminal Court.

The Presidency reminds that a State Party shall not be discharged, by reason of its withdrawal, from the obligations arising from the Rome Statute while it was a Party to the Statute.

The Presidency recalls that Hungary has participated actively in the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute since becoming a State Party in 2001, and as recently as December 2024, in resolution ICC-ASP/23/Res.1, reconfirmed together with other States Parties its unwavering support for the Court as an independent and impartial judicial institution.

 

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/presidency-assembly-states-parties-responds-announcement-withdrawal-rome-statute-hungary

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 Saying you are withdrawing is one thing, but it takes up to a year, according to Amnesty International.

 

 

   What will the I.C.C do about it ?

Netanyahu visits Hungary .

Hungary doesn't arrest Netanyahu.

The balls in the ICCs court 

What will they do next ?

 

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   What will the I.C.C do about it ?

Netanyahu visits Hungary .

Hungary doesn't arrest Netanyahu.

The balls in the ICCs court 

What will they do next ?

 

 

I've no idea.

56 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Do you have any proof of your statement?

 

The Presidency of the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute expresses concern in response to the announcement that the Government of Hungary has taken steps for Hungary to withdraw from the Rome Statute, the founding treaty of the International Criminal Court.

The Presidency reminds that a State Party shall not be discharged, by reason of its withdrawal, from the obligations arising from the Rome Statute while it was a Party to the Statute.

The Presidency recalls that Hungary has participated actively in the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute since becoming a State Party in 2001, and as recently as December 2024, in resolution ICC-ASP/23/Res.1, reconfirmed together with other States Parties its unwavering support for the Court as an independent and impartial judicial institution.

 

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/presidency-assembly-states-parties-responds-announcement-withdrawal-rome-statute-hungary

Seems that when it's a country, the government can ignore the law if it chooses. Perhaps I can use that if I'm ever arrested for something.

On 12/6/2024 at 2:20 PM, stevenl said:

I would trust NGO 's after extensive research. War crimes are a serious issue and the accusations are becoming more and more profound.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

The evidence is overwhelming. The real crime is that they are carried out with impunity under the cover of the US veto in the UN.

10 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

I've no idea.

 

   There's nothing they can do .

The more Countries that leave the ICC , the less effective they will become .

Countries would want to remain independent , rather than the ICC dictating them and telling them what to do .

10 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Do you have any proof of your statement?

 

The Presidency of the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute expresses concern in response to the announcement that the Government of Hungary has taken steps for Hungary to withdraw from the Rome Statute, the founding treaty of the International Criminal Court.

The Presidency reminds that a State Party shall not be discharged, by reason of its withdrawal, from the obligations arising from the Rome Statute while it was a Party to the Statute.

The Presidency recalls that Hungary has participated actively in the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute since becoming a State Party in 2001, and as recently as December 2024, in resolution ICC-ASP/23/Res.1, reconfirmed together with other States Parties its unwavering support for the Court as an independent and impartial judicial institution.

 

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/presidency-assembly-states-parties-responds-announcement-withdrawal-rome-statute-hungary

 

The proof is in the national law of Hungary.

I will make it easy for you; When did  Hungary adopt the law? You cannot answer that affirmatively because Hungary never put the law into effect.  Legislative proposals adopted by the National Assembly obtain the force of law only after they are signed by the President of the Republic and published in the official gazette Magyar Közlöny.

Please tell me when this occurred.

 

In international law, in most cases, if the language of the multilateral treaties is not an official language of a signatory,  it must be  brought into  the signatory's applicable law through the process of  promulgation. As a result there is no local law basis upon which to apply the foreign law in Hungary.  Which Hungarian law do you want to apply against Netanyahu?

9 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   What will the I.C.C do about it ?

Netanyahu visits Hungary .

Hungary doesn't arrest Netanyahu.

The balls in the ICCs court 

What will they do next ?

 

 

Nothing. The ICC has no enforcement power and relies on signatories of treaties who have adopted follow form laws to enforce. Unfortunately, the ICC has become over politicized and subject to allegations of bias such that  countries where the rule of law prevails, are reluctant to comply.

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Nothing. The ICC has no enforcement power and relies on signatories of treaties who have adopted follow form laws to enforce. Unfortunately, the ICC has become over politicized and subject to allegations of bias such that  countries where the rule of law prevails, are reluctant to comply.

 

   The Palestinians caused the ICC to weaken .

Palestinians seem to throw a spanner in the works everywhere they go .

Protest in USA Universities - Funding removed and students deported .

Bring cases again Netanyahu - Countries leave ICC .

Go to Jordan - Civil war .

Go to Lebanon - Civil war .

   Everywhere they go gets problems 

^ Now Nicaragua have withdrawn from participating in the ICJ genocide case against Israel

 

 

Nicaragua walks back request to join ICJ genocide case against Israel

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/nicaragua-walks-back-request-to-join-icj-genocide-case-against-israel/

 

On 4/4/2025 at 2:45 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 There's nothing they can do .

 

18 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Nothing. The ICC has no enforcement power and relies on signatories of treaties who have adopted follow form laws to enforce. 

 

Exactly right.  The Rome Statute, which created the ICC and serves as its charter, has no enforcement mechanism regarding nations which have signed or ratified the treaty but refuse to honor ICC arrest warrants.   If any of the 125 nations which are part of the ICC ignores a warrant on an individual wanted by the ICC, nothing happens to that country.  

 

In September, 2024, Putin visited Mongolia, despite the ICC warrant for his arrest.  ICC member Mongolia ignored its obligation to arrest and hand over Putin, giving the Russian leader a red-carpet welcome instead. Mongolia has only 3.5 million people and no economic clout. If such a weak nation can't be persuaded or forced to follow ICC obligations,  no country can.

 https://apnews.com/article/mongolia-russia-putin-international-criminal-court-warrant-4c79850ecf409287924e3d96218abc78

 

That's a flaw even the most enthusiastic ICC supporter has to concede:  compliance with ICC warrants and other directives depends entirely on the WILLINGNESS of member nations to obey.  It's the height of irony that South Africa, which has hounded Netanyahu with an intensity not seen since the 1940s,  had a high-profile  refusal to honor an ICC warrant and even took steps to withdraw from the ICC to avoid having to arrest Putin.  I wrote about it earlier in this thread.

 

On 12/2/2024 at 11:05 AM, Evil Penevil said:

Ironically, South Africa had been trying for seven years to withdraw from the Rome Statute.  In  2015,  South Africa refused to arrest Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir on an ICC warrant during his visit to the country.  Al-Bashir had been accused by the ICC of  genocide,  crimes against humanity and war crimes in Darfur.  In 2023, South Africa renewed its intention of withdrawing from the ICC because of the arrest warrant on Russia's Putin.  Putin was at that time scheduled to visit South Africa for a BRICs summit in August.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africa-try-withdraw-icc-again-ramaphosa-2023-04-25/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34509342

 

 

 

On 4/5/2025 at 7:41 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

The evidence is overwhelming. The real crime is that they are carried out with impunity under the cover of the US veto in the UN.

It's time for the rest of the world to man up and remove the UN from the US and remove the veto from the (NO) security council.

Meanwhile war crime allegations against 10 British citizens who served with the Israeli military in Gaza are being handed over to the MET:

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/apr/07/ten-britons-accused-of-committing-war-crimes-while-fighting-for-israel-in-gaza

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Meanwhile war crime allegations against 10 British citizens who served with the Israeli military in Gaza are being handed over to the MET:

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/apr/07/ten-britons-accused-of-committing-war-crimes-while-fighting-for-israel-in-gaza

 

  " Raji Sourani, the director of the PCHR, said:"

 

   Those people committing war crimes on a daily basis (Palestinians ) really should release the hostages , (which is a war crime) , before accusing others 

On 4/5/2025 at 8:26 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

^ Now Nicaragua have withdrawn from participating in the ICJ genocide case against Israel

 

 

Nicaragua walks back request to join ICJ genocide case against Israel

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/nicaragua-walks-back-request-to-join-icj-genocide-case-against-israel/

I was reading the comments in the source you cited !

Tariffs were mentioned. Tariffs are being  used  like a double 

edge sword, similar to fentanyl & the war on it with Mexico & Canada.

Id like to see this continued.

Thanks for the comment source @Nick Carter icp

 

 

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

I was reading the comments in the source you cited !

Tariffs were mentioned. Tariffs are being  used  like a double 

edge sword, similar to fentanyl & the war on it with Mexico & Canada.

Id like to see this continued.

Thanks for the comment source @Nick Carter icp

 

   People commenting on other forums isn't really a reliable source

9 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  " Raji Sourani, the director of the PCHR, said:"

 

   Those people committing war crimes on a daily basis (Palestinians ) really should release the hostages , (which is a war crime) , before accusing others 

Did he say anything about war crimes being a justification for retaliatory war crimes?

56 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Did he say anything about war crimes being a justification for retaliatory war crimes?

 

   Palestinians are committing war crimes and they are falsely accusing Israel of committing war crimes .

   Israel has already been on trial for those allegations and didn't get found to be guilty