American on Dirt Bike Kills Thai Woman Crossing Road in Chiang Mai

[MalcolmB]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed - but, until an investigation is carried out (even a rudimentary one), the driver of the other vehicle will still face charges of 'reckless driving resulting in / casing death' as a matter of Policing SOP - these charges would obviously be dropped very quicky.

Not true.

[eastlight]

On 1/3/2025 at 8:45 AM, fredwiggy said:

Yes, ever since scooters were first used here.

Scooters ?

[richard_smith237]

28 minutes ago, eastlight said:

On 1/3/2025 at 4:45 AM, fredwiggy said:

Yes, ever since scooters were first used here.

Scooters ?

 

Was it that hard to understand ???

 

 

[Paul Catton]

On 1/3/2025 at 5:41 AM, Georgealbert said:

Preliminary investigations revealed that Mrs. Kia was crossing the road to dine at a restaurant on the opposite side when the dirt bike, traveling from Huay Kaew Subdistrict, collided with her. Mr Morrow was riding his dirt bike alongside his friend, who was on another motorcycle.

Maybe his friend (presumably an eyewitness) will shed light on the incident  Surely he would also need to be charged with reckless driving. Truth will out.

[rattlesnake]

I apologise if anything I say has already been covered (I only read the 8 first pages).

 

I know there are cases of innocent farangs being framed, etc.

 

However, if the police have charged him with reckless driving, it is likely that eye witnesses testified that he was indeed driving recklessly.

 

The fact that he got down on his knees and waied exaggeratingly (a very unnatural thing to do for a farang) indicates, IMO, that he knows (or someone told him) that this will likely induce sympathy and reduce his sentence. I am speculating here, perhaps I am wrong, but my initial impression is that this guy screwed up by driving recklessly and is now trying his best to avoid jail. I also speculate that some money arrangement could be taking place behind the scenes with the family and/or police to drop the case.

 

Was he wearing a helmet?

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

I apologise if anything I say has already been covered (I only read the 8 first pages).

 

I know there are cases of innocent farangs being framed, etc.

 

However, if the police have charged him with reckless driving, it is likely that eye witnesses testified that he was indeed driving recklessly.

 

No its isn't.... a number of people have misinterpreted the charge as an indication of fault, its not, the charge is standard SOP when a death is involved (as explained earlier in the thread).

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

The fact that he got down on his knees and waied exaggeratingly (a very unnatural thing to do for a farang) indicates, IMO, that he knows (or someone told him) that this will likely induce sympathy and reduce his sentence.

 

No it doesn't - the response of the American simply shows and strong level of sympathy and sorrow under the huge strain of emotions - a normal human reaction, perhaps amplified with a knowledge of Thai customs.

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

I am speculating here, perhaps I am wrong, but my initial impression is that this guy screwed up by driving recklessly and is now trying his best to avoid jail.

 

He was riding side by side with his friend (partner) there is no indication of reckless driving - your speculation is as daft as some others on this thread (but at least you are not showing outright bigotry).

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

I also speculate that some money arrangement could be taking place behind the scenes with the family and/or police to drop the case.

 

Always possible, but unnecessary if there is no proof or indication so far of the American being at fault. 

The 'friend' (female he was riding with) may be able to provide a witness statement.

 

There's no information so far that highlights possible fault with either the motorcyclist or the pedestrian.

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Was he wearing a helmet?

 

He was wearing full protective riding gear - its a fair assumption that he was also wearing a helmet. 

 

What relevance does the helmet have anyway ?

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No its isn't.... a number of people have misinterpreted the charge as an indication of fault, its not, the charge is standard SOP when a death is involved (as explained earlier in the thread).

 

Thanks, I didn't know that, I didn't reach the point in the thread where this is explained.

 

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No it doesn't - the response of the American simply shows and strong level of sympathy and sorrow under the huge strain of emotions - a normal human reaction, perhaps amplified with a knowledge of Thai customs.

 

You could be right. It seemed a little over the top to me, but I appreciate that killing someone puts you at extrememy high stress levels which can induce unusual behaviour.

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What relevance does the helmet have anyway ?

 

My rationale is that if he was wearing one, then this lends credence to him being a reasonable driver and not a roadhog. As it is very easy (and even the norm) to not wear a helmet in Thailand, those who do wear one tend to be those who actually have safety awareness. This ultimately proves nothing, but I thought it was a relevant indicator nonetheless. In the first 8 pages, it was speculated that he could be one of the crazy drivers who are apparently frequently seen around Chiang Mai. This would not really fit with a helmet-wearing rider, IMO.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:44 PM, Spock said:

He is being charged with reckless driving causing death so there must be some element of dangerous driving associated with the accident. He probably just emulates Thai style driving which includes ignoring people on pedestrian crossing let alone those crossing elsewhere.

 

If there is a death due to a motor vehicle, then the driver is usually always charged with reckless driving causing death, Thai or foreigner. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is quite an amusing comment and highlights your complete ignorance of procedure here. 

 

Applying a charge of 'Reckless driving causing death' is SOP for any incident involving a death on the roads regardless of perceived fault. 

 

This has been explained repeatedly on this forum - one can only conclude that you are just not very bright if you are still failing to comprehend this most basic of facts. 

 

There is also no 'evidence' or no announcement that the American is at fault.

 

Correct. 

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

it was speculated that he could be one of the crazy drivers who are apparently frequently seen around Chiang Mai. This would not really fit with a helmet-wearing rider, IMO.

 

Yep... plenty of that going about....

 

People feel they 'have to take a side'....   there are a handful of folk who have taken the 'hang him high' stance, even without any clear evidence... They are using the fact the American showed remorse as an admission of guilt, while at the same time misunderstanding that the 'reckless riding charge' is simply just SOP.

 

I'm also quite surprised that a few usual suspects have not automatically blamed the Thai lady as those characters only ever see Thai's as being in the wrong, even when there is no evidence. 

 

I also now understand your rationale to question helmet wear: Has this been a young lad on a pocket rocket, riding in without a helmet etc, it certainly would show a) inexperience and b) a disregard for safety that may translated to poor or reckless riding.

Looking at all the safety gear both the Man and his female friend are wearing; Moto-Boots, Riding pants, Armoured riding jacket - it think its safe to assume they rode in full kit and were experienced riders.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean they weren't going too fast etc - but the bike shows no indication of being dropped, which indicates to me that there was no excessive speed.

 

 

[eastlight]

On 1/5/2025 at 11:48 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Was it that hard to understand ???

 

 

They're all motorbikes.

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, eastlight said:

They're all motorbikes.

 

And....  they're also commonly called scooters (as the google search above highlights) - the term scooter differentiates a step-through smaller motorcycle from a larger more powerful conventional motorcycle... but you knew that already... 

 

... or if you didn't, thats an impressive rock you've been hiding under !!!

 

 

[lordgrinz]

I see a bundle of these off-road motorcycles on city streets, obviously with no lights or license plates. Can they even be registered for road use here? I would think not, but no idea how Thailand handles these. I just assume that they are completely illegal on Thai roads, and with no enforcement, the riders just drive them anyway.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

I see a bundle of these off-road motorcycles on city streets, obviously with no lights or license plates. Can they even be registered for road use here? I would think not, but no idea how Thailand handles these. I just assume that they are completely illegal on Thai roads, and with no enforcement, the riders just drive them anyway.

 

The Honda CRF is fully road legal...  (photo's of the bike show road tax - this was discussed earlier in the thread, but its a long thread and you may have missed that part of the discussion).

 

Regarding plates - a few of my new bikes didn't come with a red plate, I was told it was ok to ride them without while awaiting the white plate - not sure if thats fully legal though.

 

 

[lordgrinz]

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The Honda CRF is fully road legal...  (photo's of the bike show road tax - this was discussed earlier in the thread, but its a long thread and you may have missed that part of the discussion).

 

Regarding plates - a few of my new bikes didn't come with a red plate, I was told it was ok to ride them without while awaiting the white plate - not sure if thats fully legal though.

 

 

 

Yeah I didn't read through 18 pages.....LOL But I am not talking about the CRF, I am talking more about strictly off-road motorcycles, they have no signals, no headlight, no taillight, and no license plates. Just wondering if they are even remotely allowed on the streets, or be registered? I see them occasionally, but riding them on Bangkok Metro city streets catches my attention. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

Yeah I didn't read through 18 pages.....LOL But I am not talking about the CRF, I am talking more about strictly off-road motorcycles, they have no signals, no headlight, no taillight, and no license plates. Just wondering if they are even remotely allowed on the streets, or be registered? I see them occasionally, but riding them on Bangkok Metro city streets catches my attention. 

 

I think there is a lot more of a 'relaxed attitude' to such 'contraptions' outside of built up areas, Cities, towns etc... 

 

But...  If GammaGlobwhatever reads your post he's going to get romantic with you... he was swoozy'ing down that vulvacious topical tunnel a few pages back and had to pull-out... 

 

 

[thailand49]

On 1/4/2025 at 2:17 PM, richard_smith237 said:

The incident was somewhat different - the Policeman was speeding on an unlicensed motorcycle and the Opthamologist was crossing at a pedestrian crossing. 

 

Initially, in April 2022, the Criminal Court sentenced him to one year and 15 days in prison and fined him 4,000 baht.

However, in January 2024, the Court of Appeal deemed this punishment too lenient and increased his sentence to five years and one month.

 

The story might be different but the intend and result the same. I fail to see whether the bike was license or not resulting in the death of the pedestrian. The story " Pal " ?  Meaning Path? Walkway speeding a violation is a violation as a pedestrian in a cross walk. You don't over or undertake a vehicle that has slow down especially over a100! If the bike was register what get less time for the violation nonsense.

 

The story I got was his increase sentence then was reduced to home detention?  

My comment is whatever he gets should be consistent regardless of his skin color.

 

[SamSanuk]

Well, it’s been one month, and not one update. 
 

Kinda frustrating since I was curious how this situation resolved itself.
 

Prison? Fine? Both? Neither?

 

 

[Georgealbert]

12 hours ago, SamSanuk said:

Well, it’s been one month, and not one update. 
 

Kinda frustrating since I was curious how this situation resolved itself.
 

Prison? Fine? Both? Neither?

 

 

There has been no updates reported in the Thai media.

 

Which normally means 2 things, it is either going to court, which can take months or years or it was resolved with a compensation payment, which may only later appear in the home country press, if at all.

[SamSanuk]

6 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

There has been no updates reported in the Thai media.

 

Which normally means 2 things, it is either going to court, which can take months or years or it was resolved with a compensation payment, which may only later appear in the home country press, if at all.

Thank you. Given I’m an American in CM, and many a time see foreigners acting like idiots on motorcycles, I was curious if this fellow was high or drunk, speeding, reckless, etc. I guess I may never know.

[Briggsy]

8 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

There has been no updates reported in the Thai media.

There are rarely any updates to any story. The press have a symbiotic albeit lesser role to the police and follow them around rather like cattle egret following buffalo.

 

The police allow them access to crime scenes (breaking news, pictures and clips) and people involved (victims, perpetrators).

 

The police in return are much more able to control the narrative and what information is shared and what is not.

 

Every day, on to the next new stories.

 

This allows police to resolve, finalise or even dismiss cases in a way that is best for them and the press know not to ask for follow-ups unless they are proactively shared by the police.

 

In traffic cases even involving fatalities, provided whoever is deemed to be at fault (if in doubt it will be those surviving, with the most money and least connections) has the means to pay their way out, nobody goes to prison, nobody is prosecuted, nobody loses their licence.

 

I expect this is what happened here after all is said and done.

[SamSanuk]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

There are rarely any updates to any story. The press have a symbiotic albeit lesser role to the police and follow them around rather like cattle egret following buffalo.

 

The police allow them access to crime scenes (breaking news, pictures and clips) and people involved (victims, perpetrators).

 

The police in return are much more able to control the narrative and what information is shared and what is not.

 

Every day, on to the next new stories.

 

This allows police to resolve, finalise or even dismiss cases in a way that is best for them and the press know not to ask for follow-ups unless they are proactively shared by the police.

 

In traffic cases even involving fatalities, provided whoever is deemed to be at fault (if in doubt it will be those surviving, with the most money and least connections) has the means to pay their way out, nobody goes to prison, nobody is prosecuted, nobody loses their licence.

 

I expect this is what happened here after all is said and done.

Truly incredible and sad. But makes a whole lot of sense.