5 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Way too early to judge the current US Presidency. Also, living in East Asia and travelling widely around the world, I'm not aware that the US has become a 'laughing stock'.

some people are jealous of The American Dream.

16 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  I know right?  I'm crying from laughing so hard at what a brain dead buffoon the guy has become and I'm not even a die hard lefty.

 

  It's as if The Three Stooges had a baby with Roseanne Barr and then threw it down a flight of stairs.

That's hilarious although it did set off my car alarm alert. 

On 4/28/2025 at 12:49 PM, TheAppletons said:

"What’s now increasingly obvious, however, is that Trump is in ragged retreat; he’s compromising all over the shop, such that if the plan was to upend the established global order, one can almost definitely say that, beyond the rhetoric, it is already over.

 

Rank lack of professionalism and organisation has defined the endeavour all along, and now it’s coming apart at the seams. Sensing an administration on the run, no one is any longer hurrying to do a trade deal with the US. From Britain to Canada and beyond, getting the right deal rather than a quick one has become the new mantra."

 

and

 

"Trump has in the meantime made himself – and the US – into an international laughing stock, never mind the damage that policy uncertainty is inflicting on the global economy." 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/26/trumps-attempt-to-upend-the-global-order-defeated/

Not only is Trump in "ragged retreat" he doesn't look well at all, and the thinning hair doesn't help one bit, although he tries to hide the fact with comb-overs and gel. I wonder how long he will last?

 

Then of course is the promise that he would stop the war in Ukraine in one day and look how that's gone, with Putin playing him like a puppet, despite Donny saying, "stop that Mr Putin" (very menacing – – yeah right). I quote below......

 

"Russian commentators highlighted that Trump is unlikely to bring the war in Ukraine to an end within his first 100 days in office, a timeline voiced in January by Trump’s envoy to Ukraine, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg.
“Putin’s truce on Victory Day means that no general, long-term truce will be declared in April. This means that the negotiations are far from over. Russia is defending its demands at the negotiations,” pro-Kremlin political analyst Sergei Markov said in a Telegram post. “And this means that Trump will not declare a truce in Ukraine on his 100th day in office.”

 

Winning again??? 

 

27 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

There is a good chance that you could become a 'laughing stock' with that comment!

🤣

Oh dear ! Sleepless nights and endless worries ahead. I may never recover.

On 4/28/2025 at 1:15 PM, spidermike007 said:

Trump is a circus clown. Few expected this level of chaos and such a slide in consumer confidence and poll approval numbers. 

 

Just a few of the insane things this goon has done already. 

 

He turned a legitimate federal employee designation into a loophole. By giving senior officials such as Elon Musk the title “special government employee,” Mr. Trump avoided requirements that they publicly disclose their financial holdings and divest any that present conflicts before taking jobs in the administration.

 

He ended bans that stopped executive branch employees from accepting gifts from lobbyists or seeking lobbying jobs themselves for at least two years.

 

He loosened the enforcement of laws that curb foreign lobbying and bribery.

He dismissed the head of the office that polices conflicts of interest among senior officials.

He jettisoned the head of the office that, among other things, protects whistle-blowers and ensures political neutrality in federal workplaces.

 

He purged nearly 20 nonpartisan inspectors general who were entrusted with rooting out corruption within the government.

 

As Mr. Musk’s political activities started to repel many potential customers of Tesla, his electric vehicle company, Mr. Trump lined Tesla vehicles up on the White House driveway and extolled their benefits. Then Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick urged Fox News viewers to buy Tesla shares.

 

DOGE nearly halved the team at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that regulates autonomous vehicles. The agency has been investigating whether Tesla’s self-driving technology played a role in the death of a pedestrian in Arizona.

 

As Trump’s trade war locks the world’s two largest economies on a collision course, America’s unnerved allies and partners are cozying up with China to hedge their bets. It comes as Trump’s trade push upends a decade of American foreign policy — including his own from his first term — toward rallying the rest of the world to join the United States against China. And it threatens to hand Beijing more leverage in any eventual dialogue with the U.S. administration. 

 

Hal Brands, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, said China will “try to exploit Trump’s abrasive behavior to make inroads with U.S. allies and countries in the Global South.”

 

Some scholars say Beijing is already gaining. “People lost the confidence, or even trust, for the United States, particularly for Donald Trump in the U.S. Not for China,” said Li Cheng, professor of political science at the University of Hong Kong. “So in that regard, China gains in the geopolitical landscape.”

In the latest Ipsos poll, for the first time, more people globally now say China has a positive impact on the world than the United States. The pollster cited the broad backlash to Trump’s tariffs. 

 

With Trump saying that countries are “kissing my ass” to negotiate trade deals on his terms or risk stiff import taxes, Beijing is reaching out to countries far and near. It portrays itself as a stabilizing force and a predictable trading partner, both to cushion the impact from Trump’s tariffs and to forge stronger trade ties outside of the U.S. market.

“America and China are now locked in a fierce contest for global supremacy,” Singaporean Prime Minister Lawrence Wong said in an April 16 speech. “Both powers claim they do not wish to force countries to choose sides. But in reality, each seeks to draw others closer into their respective orbits.”

 

It’s all a sorry and sordid picture, a president who had already set a new standard for egregious and potentially illegal behavior hitting new lows with metronomic regularity.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/27/opinion/trump-crypto-musk-spacex.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

 

 

Seems to me that trump and his 'team' have not realised that many / most countries can trade with more than 100 other countries if needed.

 

Many countries; At least China and many EU countries have clever folks who can search out the products they want outside of US manufacturers. And many might well be inclined to do business with alternative countries / suppliers on a specific basis of 'no import / export duties or tariffs'.

 

And very possible the countries these suppliers come from would very much like to move totally away from any trump bs. 

1 hour ago, kimothai said:

Lefty tears! Just mention the name Trump and lefties start spinning in circles chasing their tails. 

And you lot keep tying to bite them without any teeth!

6 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

And you lot keep tying to bite them without any teeth!

Wow, there goes my car alarm again.

4 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's not just that the tariff war is different in nature to Brexit, but the UK economy and the US economy are fantastically different beasts. If the UK put tariffs like the US in place, people would indeed laugh and walk away,  nobody needs the UK market as much as they need the US market. This is what I meant. 

 

You see companies ACTUALLY need the US market, but they never needed the UK market as much. Whilst the current economic state of Britain would indicate that they needed the EU more than vice versa, of course the EU also needed the UK a lot, and is a lot poorer without the UK, so it's a fairly close run thing. It's not close at all with the US economy however, which is gigantic by comparison with the UK

 

I have not doubt at all that global trade is already changing shape due to the US tariffs, a fundmeantal reordering is and will take place, due to US decisions.

 

You do have a point that there is some pain involved for the US, some still to come, however, unlike the UK, the US can really benefit from this trade war, in ways the UK could never benefit from Brexit.

 

 

China's market is huge, but its purchasing power is greatly underdeveloped, only 79th in the world, the US is around 89,000 and China around 13000 PPP.

 

 

That's true of course, the world economy willl go on without the US, however, some companies will collapse if they cannot export to the US, already some Chinese factories are closing.

 

I agree with most of that but struggle to understand 1) why - and how - you think that global trade is already changing shape in response to US tariffs? Currently, other than a decrease in trading volumes and increased volatility in the financial markets I can't see any fundamental changes 2) what this fundamental reordering of world trade will eventually look like? 3) why you seemingly imply in other posts that the outcome is inevitable, especially given that you agree that world trade can continue without the US?

 

As I said previously, no doubt the US will squeeze some concessions from other nations but there is a limit. As the old saying goes, 'No deal is better than a bad deal'.

Troll post breaking forum rules removed @Andrewdownunder

51 minutes ago, Andrewdownunder said:

British/Chinese propaganda. Always far from the truth. Move to China why don't you.

Most of the US citizens who can afford to will probably (have to) move out of the US. 

22 minutes ago, RayC said:

you think that global trade is already changing shape in response to US tariffs? Currently, other than a decrease in trading volumes and increased volatility in the financial markets I can't see any fundamental changes

 Deleted!

Posted in error!

Just now, rough diamond said:

Most of the US citizens who can afford to will probably (have to) move out of the US. 

 

Estimated to be 10 million US citizens living outside the States currently....!

On 4/28/2025 at 1:34 PM, Will B Good said:

 

Ah! All in the art of the deal....us minions know nothing.....we play checkers, Trump is playing four dimensional chess.

He couldn't even play with himself without a picture book of instructions.

4 hours ago, hotsun said:

This is what i said here over and over again on tariff day. The weapon is the american consumer, far more powerful than anything the rest of the world has

 

 

 

lefties here are so daft it doesnt sink in no matter how much you tell em

 

A prime example of the misplaced arrogance which I mentioned previously.

 

The American consumer IS important to the world, but is NOT all powerful and indispensable.

 

Take your head out of the sand, look at the data e.g. the proportion of world trade which doesn't involve the US (+/-85%) and then reach some rational conclusions.

9 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

Are those changes and the uncertainty they bring not enough evidence for you?

 

Right. And this reduction in trading volumes and chaos in the markets benefits the American consumer how exactly?

 

As I said previously, Trump's tariffs are an act of economic sado-masochism.

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Right. And this reduction in trading volumes and chaos in the markets benefits the American consumer how exactly?

 

As I said previously, Trump's tariffs are an act of economic sado-masochism.

I actually agree with you and have deleted the contents of that post!

My apologies, I misread/missed the opening words of your post!

 

On 4/28/2025 at 2:45 PM, Magictoad said:

I like & read the telegraph regularly but they've got it wrong here. This article is just to antagonise their regular readers.

Trump is a winner.

He is a liar and an idiot:

Maddow Blog | Trump claims he’s already struck 200 trade deals, but reality proves otherwise

 

'I run the country and the world,' Donald Trump says in Atlantic interview

 

Such dramatic headlines. Obviously you have no liking for Trump and that is fine but can you tell me which country is making as much effort to correct things after the Biden mis-management of the country?

27 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I agree with most of that but struggle to understand 1) why - and how - you think that global trade is already changing shape in response to US tariffs? Currently, other than a decrease in trading volumes and increased volatility in the financial markets I can't see any fundamental changes 2) what this fundamental reordering of world trade will eventually look like? 3) why you seemingly imply in other posts that the outcome is inevitable, especially given that you agree that world trade can continue without the US?

 

As I said previously, no doubt the US will squeeze some concessions from other nations but there is a limit. As the old saying goes, 'No deal is better than a bad deal'.

 

I think that the mere possibility that the US can cut off its trading partners in the abrupt and cold way that it has will have a number of effects:

 

1)  The end of the Most-favoured-Nation principle. This WTO standard is now obsolete.

 

2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico.

 

3) As consumers in the US, and many other countries, can no longer pay ridulously low prices for goods, the exploitation of women and children in manufacturing in China and other Asian counties may come to an end.

 

However, the really interesting effect will come if Trump really pursues what Bessent and Co wrote in their papers, namely to try and persuade nations to allow the US to devalue the dollar and still keep it as reserve currency, if the US really does revive its manufacturing and self-sufficiency can come to pass in the US. If that comes to pass, globalism comes to an end and more nationalist economies will no doubt result in more nationalist political systems, whicih in any event would have struggled to maintain socialist ideals like the welfare state with shrinking populations.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think that the mere possibility that the US can cut off its trading partners in the abrupt and cold way that it has will have a number of effects:

 

1)  The end of the Most-favoured-Nation principle. This WTO standard is now obsolete.

 

2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico.

 

3) As consumers in the US, and many other countries, can no longer pay ridulously low prices for goods, the exploitation of women and children in manufacturing in China and other Asian counties may come to an end.

 

However, the really interesting effect will come if Trump really pursues what Bessent and Co wrote in their papers, namely to try and persuade nations to allow the US to devalue the dollar and still keep it as reserve currency, if the US really does revive its manufacturing and self-sufficiency can come to pass in the US. If that comes to pass, globalism comes to an end and more nationalist economies will no doubt result in more nationalist political systems, whicih in any event would have struggled to maintain socialist ideals like the welfare state with shrinking populations.

 

 

Americans dream on. When it comes to Exploiting people, you better take a good look at yourself, single moms work day and night to manage the primal basics for their kids in Usa, and not even safe in their own neighborhoods. Common fears for kids is schoolshooting 

On 4/28/2025 at 8:46 AM, realfunster said:

2) Nations lining up - not convinced on that one at this point in time but I suppose clearly "communicating" US dissatisfaction with current trade arrangements may trigger some changes.  

 

They are grouping together as free trade, genuine free speech and democratic adherents to thwart Trump's bullying and cowardice. Most of the world will grow closer together and the US will be left outside. The structures are all there. The US has just left them. Belt and Road is all basically in place for global logistics. Canada has openly declared its response to Trump's threats and the nation has just voted accordingly.

 

Well done America: you got Brexit and Truss in one fell swoop.

 

And remember, even if you didn't vote for the avaricious Trump tyranny, you obviously didn't do enough to stop it. As they say in accounting: you either created it, allowed it, or promoted it.

 

Working out just what you are responsible for is the first step to changing things.

 

27 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Such dramatic headlines. Obviously you have no liking for Trump and that is fine but can you tell me which country is making as much effort to correct things after the Biden mis-management of the country?

So much mismanagement by Biden! 🙂

 

Best economic recovery among developped countries with 2 to 3 times higher GDP growth rate than other G7 countries, lower unemployment, higher energy production and exports, and inflation finally controlled after the 2022 surge.

Trump inherited a good economy from Biden and is now tanking it! 😆

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

single moms work day and night to manage the primal basics for their kid

 

Well, they clearly should have stayed with the father then..

 

Women initiate 75% of divorces. 

29 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Such dramatic headlines. Obviously you have no liking for Trump and that is fine but can you tell me which country is making as much effort to correct things after the Biden mis-management of the country?

Asking questions based on controversial assumptions is an obvious rhetorical ruse.

13 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think that the mere possibility that the US can cut off its trading partners in the abrupt and cold way that it has will have a number of effects:

 

1)  The end of the Most-favoured-Nation principle. This WTO standard is now obsolete.

 

2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico.

 

3) As consumers in the US, and many other countries, can no longer pay ridulously low prices for goods, the exploitation of women and children in manufacturing in China and other Asian counties may come to an end.

 

However, the really interesting effect will come if Trump really pursues what Bessent and Co wrote in their papers, namely to try and persuade nations to allow the US to devalue the dollar and still keep it as reserve currency, if the US really does revive its manufacturing and self-sufficiency can come to pass in the US. If that comes to pass, globalism comes to an end and more nationalist economies will no doubt result in more nationalist political systems, whicih in any event would have struggled to maintain socialist ideals like the welfare state with shrinking populations.

 

 

"2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico."

These trade alliances are about reducing trade barriers, not increasing them.

 

Why would globalism end just because the USA raises the drawbridge? Trump's program isn't even popular in the USA. What makes you think other countries would adopt it?

 

As for persuading other countries to keep the dollar as a reserve currency...there really isn't an official reserve currency. It's just that, effectively speaking, it's currently the dollar. As the dollar weakens and people lose faith in it because of U.S.unstable economic management, other countries simply will begin to use currencies from a more stable economy. The Euro is a good candidate. But if it happens it will happen gradually over time.

40 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think that the mere possibility that the US can cut off its trading partners in the abrupt and cold way that it has will have a number of effects:

 

1)  The end of the Most-favoured-Nation principle. This WTO standard is now obsolete.

 

2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico.

 

3) As consumers in the US, and many other countries, can no longer pay ridulously low prices for goods, the exploitation of women and children in manufacturing in China and other Asian counties may come to an end.

 

However, the really interesting effect will come if Trump really pursues what Bessent and Co wrote in their papers, namely to try and persuade nations to allow the US to devalue the dollar and still keep it as reserve currency, if the US really does revive its manufacturing and self-sufficiency can come to pass in the US. If that comes to pass, globalism comes to an end and more nationalist economies will no doubt result in more nationalist political systems, whicih in any event would have struggled to maintain socialist ideals like the welfare state with shrinking populations.

 

 

 

1) MFN is a cornerstone of the WTO. To jettison it would seriously (fatally?) undermine the WTO. For that reason alone, I doubt that it will happen. I also disagree that as a principle the concept of MFN is obsolete: It helps to level the playing field in the absence of FTAs.

 

2) New trade alliances are regularly formed. The world didn't need the imposition of Trump's tariffs to further that goal

 

3) Call me cynical but I'm extremely skeptical that the plight of low paid workers in other countries was foremost in the mind of Trump and his advisors when formulating his tariff policies! In any event, many consumers want to pay ridiculously low prices for products and have little concern about workers' conditions. It is an issue that needs addressing and, perhaps, the targeted use of tariffs is one tool for doing so but it has nothing to do with Trump's policy.

 

If the US becomes increasingly self-sufficient and thus, presumably, reduces the volume of its' overseas trade transactions, why would the rest of the world want to keep the dollar as the world's reserve currency? I can certainly see why the US favours this outcome but I don't see what's in it for the rest of the world. In such a case - and other things being equal - the rest of us would be better off with the Euro, Yen or even renminbi.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

A prime example of the misplaced arrogance which I mentioned previously.

 

The American consumer IS important to the world, but is NOT all powerful and indispensable.

 

Take your head out of the sand, look at the data e.g. the proportion of world trade which doesn't involve the US (+/-85%) and then reach some rational conclusions.

 

It's the US version of 'they need us more than we need them' 555

 

Eventually even the biggest fools will learn that all is interdependent and when developed properly can be win-win for everyone.

 

Trump and his cult are mental paupers. But the people behind them are seriously malignant. He will be replaced by Vance whether he likes it or not. For now they can still use him.

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"2)  New trade alliances are already being formed, China, Japan and South Korea, or Canada and Mexico."

These trade alliances are about reducing trade barriers, not increasing them.

 

Why would globalism end just because the USA raises the drawbridge? Trump's program isn't even popular in the USA. What makes you think other countries would adopt it?

 

As for persuading other countries to keep the dollar as a reserve currency...there really isn't an official reserve currency. It's just that, effectively speaking, it's currently the dollar. As the dollar weakens and people lose faith in it because of U.S.unstable economic management, other countries simply will begin to use currencies from a more stable economy. The Euro is a good candidate. But if it happens it will happen gradually over time.

 

There are some people 'kissing Trump's ass' (what kind of language and attitude is that for a US President), just not the ones he thinks. In fact it's all the ones a decent person wouldn't want even near their ring piece.

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

MFN is a cornerstone of the WTO to jettison it would seriously (fatally?) undermine the WTO. For that reason alone, I doubt that it will happen. I also disagree that as a principle the concept of MFN is obsolete: It helps to level the playing field in the absence of FTAs.

 

MFN is already gone. It's no more. The MFN principle, which requires each member of the World Trade Organization to apply the same tariff rates for all its WTO trading partners (unless a free trade agreement is in force) is now no longer followed by the USA. Retaliation from many US trading partners would, in effect, mean the end of the MFN principle and mark the beginning of prolonged bilateral negotiations for country-specific tariff rates and implementation schemes. This is what we are seeing now.

 

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

Call me cynical but I'm extremely skeptical that the plight of low paid workers in other countries was foremost in the mind of Trump and his advisors when formulating his tariff policies! In any event, many consumers want to pay ridiculously low prices for products and have little concern about workers' conditions. It is an issue that needs addressing and, perhaps, the targeted use of tariffs is one tool for doing so but it has nothing to do with Trump's policy.

 

This was probably not in Trump's mind at all, however, if you think about it, if the US gets used to paying fair prices for products, rather than ludicrously low prices, that will mean that the market for these ultra-low priced products will not be as big anymore. To compete China et al may need to focus on quality rather than price. The end result could be a reduction in the merciless epxloitation of factory workers in Asia.

 

It has a lot to do with Trump's policies because if prodcuts will be made in the US they will be far more expensive and consumers will have to pay higher prices, whether they like it or not.

 

I would suspect that the US will tie keeping the Dollar as reserve currency and permission to devalue the dollar to trade negotiations. Other nations would get better access to the US market if they agree to these terms, and after all the US is still the richest and strongest economy in the world, so the dollar would be inherently more trustworthy than the decrepit Euro Zone Euro, the even more decrepit Yen or the Chinese fraud currency.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

It's the US version of 'they need us more than we need them' 555

 

Eventually even the biggest fools will learn that all is interdependent and when developed properly can be win-win for everyone.

 

Trump and his cult are mental paupers. But the people behind them are seriously malignant. He will be replaced by Vance whether he likes it or not. For now they can still use him.

Exactly the same thing happened with Brexit. The Brexiteers mostly claimed that the UK would come out ahead of the deal. The EU acknowledged that both it and the UK would be hurt but that it would be worse for the UK.