Callan/walen Ed Visa

[Maestro]

I was thinking of enrolling at Walen School of Thai... secured in knowing I got a Visa...29,500 Baht compulsory 1 year fee...never heard of this kind of teaching method...

1. If you are already in Thailand ask a school or two if you can sit in on a lesson free of charge to see if you like the method. Any serious school will allow you to do this.

2. Studying Thai at a school other than Walen should also entitle you to a non-ED visa and subsequent 90-day extensions, although I am not sure if it works with all schools or only those that have a particualar type of accreditation from the Ministry of Education. The quality of assistance in providing you with the necessary documents for visa and extensions may also vary from one school to another.

3. Another point to consider if you are uncertain whether you will like the teaching method or how long you will be able to keep up with the study would be to ask the school if you could pay the advance school fee for only 3 months at a time, seeing that extensions for stay are only for 90 days at a time anyway. I’m not sure, though, if this would allow for an extension of stay when you decide to continue to study for another 3 months or if you would have to get a new non-ED visa again from a consulate.

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Maestro

[Onnutrd]

Yes I'm already in Bangkok, and I'm intending to visit Walen School of Thai soon...

I'm procrastinating on it at the moment.haha.

Thanks for your advice and will take it into account.

[MacWalen]

We have an interesting case of a student who got 1 month multiple ED visa when it was supposed to be one year! It was obvioulsy a mistake but he checked his passport too late and was already at the airport, it was too late to go back and correct it. We have visited the local immigration but they cannot change it although they agree that it was a mistake. We can process the paperwork to make an extension but it will mean an extra expense for him for re-entry permits as he travels frequently. Even single entry ED visas have 3 month validity! It was also quite expensive 225 AUD. Has anybody else seen a one month mulitple entry visa? Either ED or B

So the moral of this story is - CHECK YOUR VISA BEFORE YOU LEAVE A CONSULATE!

Walen School, Mac

[Tod Daniels]

This is truly the thread that will not die; however as Gene $immon$ of KISS once said; "ANY publicity is good publicity."

There are soo many different language schools out there teaching their method of thai, that they really can't be compared. Aside from the 'cloned' schools which are all derivatives of the same transliteration method using the same out dated material i.e.; Unity, AAA, Piammitr, and nameless others, there are also ones like Walen, Baan Aksorn, and Jentana who teach by their own system. I am NOT being negative to the 'cloned' schools (as they must have been around a while given their material); it's just not a system which I found worked for me. Perhaps being able to read thai now I would do better to revisit them and look at their advanced material. I know initially the "let's learn to 'parrot' cute thai phrases written in english hieroglyphics" was NOT the way I could learn.

The ประถม ๖ test may be the benchmark in gauging a persons ability in thai BUT few thai language students enrolled in any of the too numerous to count thai language schools progress that far. Last year when I was researching the possibility of studying for the exam, one of the 'clone schools' had just 6 people enrolled in their pre-exam study program. I don't know how many total students they had that year, but it was clear only a very small percentage of students go that far in their studies.

Too many people have written negative rhetoric from all too hasty an observation of the Walen School’s lesson book, brief discussions with his front desk staff, as well as commenting on their seating arrangements. That may make them feel superior, but is hardly the way to objectively critique ANY school or their method of teaching thai. The counterpart of the Walen School’s method of teaching thai is the Callan method of teaching english. It is based on the nearly the same format, and is has a proven track record in teaching english.

I think each person will learn this language (or not) based on their desire and their perseverance to do so. True, a school’s particular teaching method, their written material, and how it is presented is important, but to me it boils down to 'how badly do you want to learn this language'. I know people who have lived here 20+ years yet speak worse than a ‘fresh off the boat’ tourist, just as I know people who've been here only a short time yet can speak quite well. It is the inner drive or desire which motivates a person. Different people learn differently, that cannot be argued.

As an aside; I sat in on the start of a new class for Book 2 at the Walen School Tuesday for two hours out of the three hours. The book is well put together, the vocabulary works with the example sentences, and the class seemed to have Book 1's vocabulary down. The material is presented in a straightforward fashion, the questions asked by the class were on topic and meaningful in the context of the lesson(s). I found the teacher more than qualified to teach this material and keep the class moving forward. She was well versed in explaining in thai OR english how a particular word is used and in what context. For me; having the ability to ask questions in MY native language; english is a huge plus. I would wager few foreigners; even ones who can speak thai proficiently, know the thai words for; subject (ประธาน), verb (คำกริยา), object of a verb (กรรม), preposition (คำบุพบท), let alone; Present Tense (ปัจจุบันกาล), Past Tense (อดีตกาล), or Future Tense (อนาคตกาล) in discussing language sentence structure or a word usage. If you do, why are you in a language class to begin with? I have found the schools which tried (unsuccessfully) to force me to speak thai when I had a question were counter productive to my learning due to my thai vocabulary not being equal to the questions I wanted to ask.

To anyone wanting to learn to read/speak thai, I suggest give the Walen School a chance, and take the free lesson. As was mentioned in a previous post, MOST schools offer the ‘free lesson’ deal, go to a few, see what works for you. Only you can decide what 'fits' best for you to learn this language.

Good luck, or as the diminutive inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" say;

ขอให้โชคดี

[kriswillems]

This is truly...

I went to one of the schools with the old-fashioned "let's learn to 'parrot' cute Thai phrases written in English hieroglyphics"-method. It think it was more than just parotting, they were trying to help you understand sentence structure. No matter in which school you study, they will all need to teach you this basic structure of Thai language. The books were also available in Thai for those who could read Thai already (like me).

I full agree with you that starting with Thai script right from the beginning (like Walen language school does) is the best way. The only disadvantage is that some students feel so bored and overwhelmed while studying the Thai script that they might give up to quickly.

In my school were 18 students doing the P.6 test. That's not that much, but to be honest, I think book1 of Walen school is still VERY far from P.6 level. Based on the knowledge in this book you shouldn't even consider trying to do the P.6 test. The course with book2 has just started (and was not available before), so I believe this school has much less (if not zero) students that did the test. I hope there will be a lot of students at the end of this year.

My native language is not English, so I don't find it useful that the teacher speaks English in the classroom. Most student in my classroom were Korean and Japanese, and I am also very happy the Thai teacher couldn't speak Korean, just like the Korean students must be very happy that the Thai teacher couldn't speak English. I might not ask questions in Thai perfectly but in the end I always managed to explain what I wanted to know. Asking questions is also a way to practice your language, it's not just loosing time.

If fully agree with you that motivation is much more important than any study method or choice of school.

[MacWalen]

Thanks for all the comments about our school and our method of teaching. I trully believe that a direct method of teaching will eventually become more popular than traditional methods as learning with this mehtod is much faster, easier and more enjoyable. It takes time but we will get there. I am talking to our students on a regular basis and most are happy with the way we teach. This is a big place so there is plenty of room for many schools using different methods of teaching Thai. For those interested please come and visit us and have a free demonstration.

On the visa front now, the good news is that they are still issuing one year non-ED mulitlple entry visas in Penang. This is a very recent example of one of our students!

Regards, Walen School, Mac

[lopburi3]

I also appears to have been issued without cost.

[MacWalen]

The reason is that it was a Korean passport and I believe Koreans have a fee free visa deal with Thailand. We have another student with the same kind of visa on a British passport also from Penang. I forgot how much he paid.

Mac

[Onnutrd]

That's correct from the writing on the visa page, it appears to be korean. They do have a visa free deal with Thailand and also enjoy greater benefits in terms of visa exemptiosn too..wish i had one.

[MacWalen]

I think this is a better example of a multiple one year ED visa from Penang, this one is quite current and the cost is 550 RM. Issued on a French passport.

Walen School, Mac

[fotoman]

Walen Method =Callan Method

Interesting=Not in the slightest

Qualified Teachers=Doubt it very much and in what if by some chance they are

Misleading advertising=Absolutely

Macwlalen=Maestro are they the same person mmmmm

Positive comments on the school= Coherced Callan teachers posting

Ministry approved school=Proove it

Visa factory=yes

Quick fix if you are having visa problems just a loophole in the system being exploited by a clever businessman.

Could change at any time you know how it works here once people jump on the bandwagon.

Better methods around for learning Thai however its cheap but you get what you pay for.

Tread carefully and spend wisely

[abdulrahman]

Walen Method =Callan Method

Interesting=Not in the slightest

Qualified Teachers=Doubt it very much and in what if by some chance they are

Misleading advertising=Absolutely

Macwlalen=Maestro are they the same person mmmmm

Positive comments on the school= Coherced Callan teachers posting

Ministry approved school=Proove it

Visa factory=yes

Quick fix if you are having visa problems just a loophole in the system being exploited by a clever businessman.

Could change at any time you know how it works here once people jump on the bandwagon.

Better methods around for learning Thai however its cheap but you get what you pay for.

Tread carefully and spend wisely

You'll receive the same warning from Maestro as I did.Never say a word against paying sposors

[MacWalen]

Walen Method =Callan Method

It is similar, hope it will be as good as the Callan Method once we have perfected it.

Interesting=Not in the slightest

Are you one of our students? If not how do you know that? Let people think for themselves. What about effective if not interesting? Would you say that the Callan Method was not effective?

Qualified Teachers=Doubt it very much and in what if by some chance they are

What is the definition of qualified? They are trained and they are doing a great job, they would not last long if the school was not happy with them. Hope you do not mean that they are not qualified because they are young or do you?

Misleading advertising=Absolutely

We have covered it before already, have a look at the visa in the attachment above, is it not a one year ED visa?

Macwlalen=Maestro are they the same person mmmmm

Maestro will not be happy with that, that is a low blow. I think he will ban you mate.

Positive comments on the school= Coherced Callan teachers posting

I do not think so.

Ministry approved school=Proove it

Too easy, we can show the license to anybody interested, it is actually attached (a copy) with the paperwork our students get from our school.

Visa factory=yes

It is not but we do indeed help our students with visas.

Quick fix if you are having visa problems just a loophole in the system being exploited by a clever businessman.

You could study Thai 3 years at our school so if somebody wants to learn and at the same time to live in the country what is wrong with that? 3 years for a lot of people is not a "quick fix" maybe 3 months could be called a "quick fix" what about a "3 year fix" sounds better?

Could change at any time you know how it works here once people jump on the bandwagon.

It will not change any time soon, ED visas were around for a while and are not going away any time soon.

Better methods around for learning Thai however its cheap but you get what you pay for.

What better methods? Let us know so people can try and then decide. What you get is indeed what you pay for, that is good quality lessons with fantastic teachers.

Tread carefully and spend wisely

I agree totally

Walen Thai School, Mac

[fotoman]

Mr Walen thanks for your comments.

People can draw their own conclusions from your answers.

The only one i would like to clear up is.

MOE approved-I'm sure the school is registered but to my knowledge the method is not accredited here in Thailand.Will make a few phone calls today and make sure that it has not changed.

You are obviously an astute businessman as you have taken the Callan Method and adapted it to Thai.

However i can voice my opinion over your claims and advertising.

The more you fuel this thread with comments the more attention you will bring to the education visa situation.

Causing someone somewhere to tighten the noose on those genuinely wanting to study here and not those looking for a way

to get a visa with no intention of studying.

You are almost inviting criticism and sooner rather than later this may backfire on you.

As for Maestro banning me is this not a democracy can i not speculate on something.

[cali4995]

In fairness to Mac, he has been contributing a significant amount of knowledge about these

Ed visas. None of the other Thai schools are very public about thier offerings so we don't have a lot of research on (1) required hours of study per week (2) tuition fees (3) learning method (4) can they furnish necessary documents (5) Are they MOE accredited. Sooner rather than later,all these variables are going to be coming under increased scrutiny.

Maestro has a very distinctive writing style, taking a moment to examine someones body of contributions, I would have to guess an extensive education with possibly legal emphasis. It can't be easy being the referee, most of us shoot from the hip, and ask questions later. Wearing the tin star dealing with the outlaws every day, difficult.

[Hawkup2000]

I have looked around quite much regarding thai language schools and I must say that Walen is one of the better. Sadly, for me I was to softhearted and gave in when a school some stories (same building) above called me several time asking me to sign up. So now here I am with deposit of 10.000 baht and my first letter from MOE. What makes me feel cheated by the other school? When I paid they said that the fee (32500 baht) would give me a 1 year visa. when I got my letter they said that it actully would give me around(?!) 7-8 months. Thats a real lure if you ask me. Walen on the other hand don´t keep you in the dark. They present all formalia in detail.

And if someone think the book is to easy; congrats to you then. How about signing up for the pratom 6 test?

[LivinLOS]

Could change at any time you know how it works here once people jump on the bandwagon.

It will not change any time soon, ED visas were around for a while and are not going away any time soon.

So you have the ability to control immigration decisions now..

Was the introduction of 90 day extensions not a 'change' then ??

[MacWalen]

I do not have the ability to control the immigration. I think you should know that visas are not issued by the immigration.

I have a strong belief that the Thai policy makers are wise people and that they will never ban other nations from coming to Thailand in order to obtain knowledge and especially that of the Thai language and culture. This brings great benefits to Thailand and promotes good will.

Thai people love when foreigners can speak and read their language, it is a great complement to them. Hope you agree with that statement.

Walen Thai School, Mac

[cali4995]

Visas may not be issued by immigration but extensions certainly are. Knowing how to read and write Thai certainly is helpful but very rarely do Thais want foreigners speaking.

[LivinLOS]

I do not have the ability to control the immigration. I think you should know that visas are not issued by the immigration.

Immigration do not issue visa's but they do make the rules by which embassys and consuls globally are supposed to operate by.

[Maestro]

I don’t think so, LivinLOS. That would be the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

--

Maestro

[LivinLOS]

Opps.. Corrected..

[lopburi3]

Actually immigration can and do issue visas to those legally in Thailand - but only when you qualify to the special requirements (based on ability to extend your stay). It is done with a TM.87 form and costs 2,000 baht.

[LivinLOS]

Having never done that I thought it was that they could only 'convert' one visa class to another..

[lopburi3]

TM.86 is used for conversions.

[MacWalen]

Perhaps there are 'special' cases that make it possible to issue a 'new' visa instead of converting from one visa category to another, I have not seen it myself but always learning something new.

Just to give you guys a practical example of dealings with the immigration, you probably still remember the student who got only one month multiple ED visa when it was supposed to be one year, we went to the immigration and asked them, very nicely and politely, if they could fix the mistake in the visa and change it into a one year ED visa as it was obviously a mistake made by the consulate in Sydney. We were told that only that consulate could do that and if he wanted to have it fixed he would have to go back to Sydney.

I am sure the lady officer we talked with at the immigration was not trying to be difficult or unhelpful, I know her about 6 years now, she was very friendly and just told us that they do not have the power to change it.

I was hoping they could 'fix' the visa just my making an adjustment and stamping it like in the example in the attachment below and signing, rather simple I thought but it did not work.

I am far from being an expert on all types of visas, next time I will limit my comments to ED visas and my practical experience. Thanks Lopburi for your expertise.

Walen School, Mac

[ConfusedFarang]

If this is a way to learn thai language AND get a visa at the same time that is guaranteed to last a year(with extensions), that's a pretty good deal. Some people should learn at least a few key words/phrases at least or they should not be in Thailand in the first place if they have no interest in the culture and are only there for bar girls and cheap stuff.

Edited January 22, 2008 by ConfusedFarang

[teknoloyee]

I am really surprised by all the flak Walen School is taking here from some posters.

I have been a student with them since last November, and I couldn't be more satisfied with their service and method of teaching!

And no, I am neither a secret employee of them, nor do I need a visa from them (got my non-imm 1 year visa and work permit), nor have I been bribed by Mac or anything.

Just sharing my personal experience with other people who might wonder what is really going on at that school.

Initially I signed up for 60 lessons to see if they were what I expected, and by now I am 100% sure that I will continue studying with them.

I was simply searching for a reliable place where I could learn proper Thai in a way that goes beyond memorizing romanized textbook phrases, and I am happy to say that I found what I was looking for at Walen.

I think Tod-Daniels remarks are pretty accurate, whereas some other posters' criticisms here are in my opinion absolutely baseless or missing the point (some I find even outright offensive, bordering on slander! "rip off"??? "language groupies"??? What the ....???)

I always got a reply from Walen within hours to any email inquiry I had, and each promise I was made by them they always kept.

Their chairs are fine. The rooms not only have windows (!?), but are actually furnished with some props that correspond to sentences in the book, to visually assist in understanding and memorizing the lesson.

I admit that the teachers are beautiful (especially mine ;-), but that does not mean at all that they are less qualified or lack the necessary attitude or knowledge!

The book is anything but unstructured! It may not be structured in the same way as the majority of other books (It does NOT start with "Sawaddee Khrap/Kha" and "Sabai Dee mai?" to then go on to the other usual standard phrases), but if that is what you want, just buy yourself a phrasebook for 200 Baht and forget about visiting a thai school.

I absolutely love the fact that they make you learn thai script and dont waste any time on karaoke thai, and even though this may make the first few lessons a little more challenging for some of the students, I believe most are able to catch up within a few weeks (I can only speak for my class-group here of course).

It is true that not everybody within a group is on exactly the same level (of course not! how would that be possible?), but personally, being one of the more "advanced" beginners (but still a beginner) in my class, I dont feel slowed down by the other students in my group at all! Just the opposite, it enhances the chemistry between the students of the group, who, always under supervision and guidance of the teacher, often work together to elaborate on problems with vocabulary or pronounciation. It is actually fun and motivating!

Personally, I have experienced Walen School of Thai mainly as a place to learn Thai language by a special, quite new, and maybe a little unusual but effective method, and not as a visa factory. The fact that they assist some of their students in getting ED visas (without any extra fee) should be commended instead of being cause for baseless allegations and bashing.

Of course, such a concept may not be welcome to some "visa provider" companies, because they may loose a lot of their clients to such a school (after all, ED with a language school not only is a visa for which practically everybody qualifies, but on top of that you even get the possibility to learn the local language and thereby make your life here easier).

The so called "visa providers" can not keep up with that unless they open their own language school, which I guess is not as easy as simply anonymously slandering the competion on a webboard.

Maybe that is the real motivation behind some of the posts, maybe not. I dont really care. All I know is that I have found what I have been looking for, and I would strongly suggest every interested person not to believe the bashers, not to believe my post, not to believe anybody, but simply take the time and check it out for yourselves!

[Maestro]

A post containing unfounded, slanderous speculation and the reply thereto have been deleted.

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Maestro

[cali4995]

I see the latest Walen advertisements in the Bangkok Post are now claiming

3 year ED visa 29.5k. Strange how principles of truth, fairness and clarity of

statement only apply to everyone else. Integrity compromised, a sad thing.