Harrassed By Ftpa In Walking Street

[allexx]

HARRASSED BY FTPA IN WALKING STREET

To the Editor, Pattaya Daily news.

I wish to inform you of an encounter I had with 2 members of the Foreign Police Assistants on the evening of 3rd March 2009 in Walking Street, Pattaya.

I’d observed a lot of police activity that night, some of which I had filmed, so curiosity got the better of me and I decided to have a drink at a bar near the Tourist Police “station” to try and see what was going on. I recognised one of the foreign guys in uniform as Howard Miller so I thought I’d get some footage of him and his comrades in their working environment, as were many of the tourists passing by.

The next thing I know, completely out of the blue, I’m pounced on by Howard Miller and another guy who wasn’t wearing a uniform. (I later managed to identify him as Paul Harrison, recently featured in a story on your web-site) …read more…

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/forum/show...icID=0000001743

[patklang]

Totaly out of order,shame on you mr Howard Miller.i did think that you were doing a good job but theparanoia you have could get you into trouble one day

[Jingthing]

Miller is getting to have too big a head. Its a good thing he is getting taken down a notch here. It is due.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

Well you weren't quoting from the Bangkok Post. so let's post the rest of the story, as most folk are too lazy to read the link:

I was told, in no uncertain terms, that I wasn't allowed to take video. Miller also asked me why I was filming "covertly". I was holding my camera (which is a large size for a video camera) on my lap for comfort. It was obvious for everyone to see that I was filming. I was hiding nothing – and it certainly wasn't "covert". I like to take video of people unaffected by the lens - not performing or playing to the camera.

This is the first time in 15 years I have been told to stop taking a video in Thailand.

The tone of Miller and his accomplice was arrogant, authoritative and intimidating. I was also very embarrassed and humiliated by the attention this drew from the other people in the bar and the bystanders who began to gather.

Miller went on to explain that the media had been writing bad things about them and for all they knew I may be from the BBC or CNN. ( I thought at the time, "Don't flatter yourself!"). If I was connected to such an organisation then apparently I would have to have authorisation.

I told Miller he was acting paranoid and pointed out the fact that several tourists had been taking video of his team while I was sitting doing the same.

When I asked Miller's sidekick who he was, he replied, "Tourist Police" and attempted to search for some ID, which never materialised.

I was previously under the impression these guys were civilian volunteers whose mandate was to assist foreign tourists. And here I was being interrogated by two guys acting as if they were police. Not volunteers – not assistants, but enforcers of the law.

I tried to remain calm, but inside I was raging as I finally realised why these people have generated so much concern among the local community. If they were like this in full public view, how on earth did they behave in a more controlled environment. Ironically I did have some sympathy for their plight, and the maybe unjustified criticism they've been subject to in the media. That is definitely no longer the case.

The Tourist Police "headquarters" is set up in a dominant position in an open public area free for all to see. What exactly is Mr. Miller afraid of?

I would like to ask Mr. Miller the following:

1. On what authority was I being questioned by you and your assistant?

2. Is there a law in Thailand against taking video in Walking Street?

3. Is there a law against taking video of a group of foreigners in uniform?

4. If there is why didn't you ask one of your Thai police superiors to speak to me?

5. Mr. Harrison was out of uniform and presumably off-duty so in what capacity was he assisting you in your interrogation?

Finally I'd just like to point out that Mr. Miller himself makes a living from the broadcast of video footage featuring victims in hapless and stressful situations, in their homes, workplace and in public areas, and I would hazard a guess that neither he, nor his staff, obtained permission from his subjects prior to filming nor to publication. The hypocrisy here is blatant, and I think it's a bit much that he should react when the cameras are finally turned on him.

I include a link to a video on Youtube, to help your readers draw their own conclusions.

I had one of my rare incursions into Walking Street tonight, and was immediately taken back by a line of 5 or 6 Volunteer Police (or whatever they are called now) who were walking in an intimidating manner across the middle of the street. The black uniforms and aggressive looks on their faces could have been a scene out of Berlin, circa 1938. And then, next to the police vehicle at the start of WS, there was a very large group of black shirted foreigners, strutting around, looking all the world like this was their territory, and God help anyone who got in their way. I have never seen anything quite like this in all my life (and believe me I have traveled to unsavoury places), and to have so many of these people highly and agressively visible in a tourist area is bordering on the absurd.

I'm no particular fan of Walking Street and it's environs, but this nonsense of the black shirts seems to be getting completely out of hand, and is doing Pattaya's already seedy image no favours whatsoever.

PS - about halfway down WS, there was a girl dressed in some kind of regional attire, who couldn't have been more than 8 years old standing on a small table and performing under the supervision of a Thai man who was collecting contributions. Why don't the BIB do something about this blatant under age exploitation???

How long before this thread is closed I wonder?

Edited March 5, 2009 by soundman
Added quote tags.

[Forkinhades]

wheres the link to youtube?

[Jingthing]

wheres the link to youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFAqKpGV8M

[JimmyConway]

>>>Demonstrates the arrogance of the Foreign Police<<< Did I miss something on the video???????

[hm1973]

Good evening everyone.....

Sorry to butt in, but I don't suposse anyone would like to hear what really happened before you all jump to your usual conclusions. If you do, just say the word and I will reveal a bit more about this fascinating story.

Howard

[prefabs]

Good evening everyone.....

Sorry to butt in, but I don't suposse anyone would like to hear what really happened before you all jump to your usual conclusions. If you do, just say the word and I will reveal a bit more about this fascinating story.

Howard

Feel free, I think that would be nice, Howard. An answer to the 5 questions would surely go a long way to alleviating the increasingly negative feelings towards you and your chappies

[hm1973]

Obviously I don’t expect anyone to believe this and I now don’t get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

[JetsetBkk]

So if it's called "Walking Street" how come Mr. Miller and his gang are allowed to sit down?

[RakJungTorlae]

Obviously I don't expect anyone to believe this and I now don't get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

It's all good!! Thanks for takeing the time to patch that up.

But how manny Tourist Police Jokes Are there?? "NON" as they are all true..

[TheWalkingMan]

Black and White Bar? That place never has any customers... no wonder the guy got caught taking undercover videos.

TheWalkingMan

[Pakeha]

Obviously I don't expect anyone to believe this and I now don't get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

I make no judgement of who's right or wrong but good on you for responding.

[thainet]

Howard thanks for responding to the criticism and clearing up the problem for most of us.

As you know myself and most of the other bar owners on Walking Str think you guys do a fantastic job on Walking Str, as we are the one's that see your work on a daily basis.---We all thank you immensely.

The original poster sounds like the type we get in the bars at times, taking secret or furtive pictures of the girls. They are contrite when we catch them, but you never know what they are going to do with the pix or write about them, so I can understand the TP Officers feeling uncomfortable with this covert action.

Keep up the good work and don't worry about the handful of troublemaker posters.

[dieter1]

I don´t need to have a disput with these "black sheriffs, nor do I need to a disput with their defenders. Problem is - as usual, the Thai police act an an very unprofessional way, to allow foreign men to act in public in these uniforms.

These uniforms make certain kind of impressions, which is not good! Uniform is not just some kind of dressing . It is a special dressing with certain meaning.

I think, in my country, police would never allow untrained foreigners to act this way. Problem is, the Thai Police act totaly unprofesional to do this. If their own staff do not speak english good enough, they should train them ! And they can use people to translate, but not uniformed "black sheriffs" for doing this job!

[dee123]

I always thought it was legal to film when on holiday.Why don't you let the Thai police do the job they are supposed to do?or can't they be trusted?Is there a police complaints organisation.I wouldn't have believed this could be real,The uniforms are similar to a cowboy outfit I owned when I was 10 years old.Sorry Howard you know what a reputation the Thai police have.Unless you have a public body for complaints and a selection proceedure that is 100% verifieable.I can't back this.

[dee123]

Lets get to the bottom of this!.....Howard starts off as journalist then as he is "well connected" gets made commisioner Gordon? Is that right? POST EDIT; Oh my goodness I've just noticed his avatar statement, reads; "Life is Life, la la la"

Edited March 5, 2009 by dee123

[ozsamurai]

On a recent trip to Pats, I wandered down the street as we all do, sat in a bar with a beer and some food, I was amazed at the amount of people who thought it was their god given right to walk past with their video cameras and film me having a beer in the bar. First few were a bit novel, but seriously by the tenth, I was getting annoyed. Not that I was doing anything to warrant such attention, but in the end I got out my mobile phone and made gestures as if I was filming them just to stop them. The mama also has to keep a girl outside as well to shun them off. What is the deal, everyone wants to be a YouTube star now?

Whilst in NY a few yrs back, I was looking through my video cam, not even recording and was confronted by a guy "Why are you filming me?" etc.. It nearly led to a heated punch up. Why is it suddenly OK just because the person is now on holiday? Does the right to violate peoples privacy get included in your Visa On Arrival stamp now?

Oz

[PhilHarries]

Well I have no beef with these clothes hanger pseudo cops as they have hardly even registered in my mind, mainly because you see so many strange sights down WS that a bunch of wannabe Mussolinis just blend into the background. However this event is certainly not as clear cut as the letter in the OP suggests. The writer says he was filming with his video camera resting in his lap. I'm not a professional cameraman but it this the normal way to film events? He says he was not filming covertly, so why was he not holding the camera up so he can see the image he is recording?

Yes I agree it is not a crime to take photographs or video in WS and many of us, mostly inadvertantly, appeared in tourists snapshots and movies in many locations. But honestly, how many of us would be comfortable having ourselves filmed in such a manner? There is something creepy about a regular guy, not a professional, who secretly films complete strangers for what reason? Who knows what he intends doing with the results? I believe that if you are caught on film produced for public viewing and your face is not blurred/pixelled out you have recourse under law (probably not in Thailand). But such images can be, and often are, anonymously loaded onto internet websites where you have no control nor recourse.

As for the interchange between the writer and Mr Miller, we've had both sides of the story and I suspect elements of each version could be found in the truth.

[Owain]

At no point did I put my hands on his camera.

Looking at his video it looks like that is indeed what you were trying to do. You were out of order. <snip>

Edited March 5, 2009 by soundman
Removed inflamatory comment. Next one gets you a holiday.

[soundman]

I would really like to know the OP's motives for spending a considerable amount of time filming, editing & promoting his "home video" about the FTPA volunteers.

[ozsamurai]

nice to have almost known you Owain...

[neverdie]

^^ Yes Soundman, that is a very good point, what was his intent in relation to the overt or covert filming (depending which side your on)?

Without any doubt many of the WANNABE cops are on some kind of power trip & eventually they will trip themselves up......it is wrong for the Volunteer Officer to identify himself as "Tourist Police" he should be clearly stating that he is a Volunteer Wannabe.

I strongly doubt very much that Mr Howards superior sent him over to address the issue, afterall these men have no powers to stop someone from taking video or dictate to a person how they can video tape. Would it have been acceptable to Mr Howard if the cameraman held the camera up to his eye, whilst filming? &lt;deleted&gt;?

The cameraman should GET A LIFE & Go film Nature.

Mr Howard is on a powertrip.....he should concentrate more on helping people which he so proudly claims to do & worry less about twits with video cameras, especially if hes not doing anything wrong.

Mr Howard, you should leave the law enforcement to real police & get back to assisting lost tourists and filing papers

Edited March 5, 2009 by neverdie

[bartender100]

I would just like to add one observation from my last trip.

After 2am all hel_l breaks lose on WS, all the kids selling neon and wrapping themselfs around your legs, flower sellers, beggers fights breaking out, drunks all over the place, every endangered species touted for a photo, the odd elephant, music up full volume in the bars.

ITS GREAT I LOVE IT.

But you will not see a cop, tourist variety or Thai, its everyman for himself (or woman).

Its been the same for years.

[thaiflyer1]

I dont get down Walking St much these days but looking at the video it does look as though Howard was a bit over the top..............Heres one suggestion why do the TPV feel the need to walk down the street 6 abreast, why not patrol in pairs, surely this would be better for all concerned.

To many people the TPV look intimidating when they walk 6 abreast..........

[CHdiver]

^^ Yes Soundman, that is a very good point, what was his intent in relation to the overt or covert filming (depending which side your on)?

Without any doubt many of the WANNABE cops are on some kind of power trip & eventually they will trip themselves up......it is wrong for the Volunteer Officer to identify himself as "Tourist Police" he should be clearly stating that he is a Volunteer Wannabe.

I strongly doubt very much that Mr Howards superior sent him over to address the issue, afterall these men have no powers to stop someone from taking video or dictate to a person how they can video tape. Would it have been acceptable to Mr Howard if the cameraman held the camera up to his eye, whilst filming? &lt;deleted&gt;?

The cameraman should GET A LIFE & Go film Nature.

Mr Howard is on a powertrip.....he should concentrate more on helping people which he so proudly claims to do & worry less about twits with video cameras, especially if hes not doing anything wrong.

Mr Howard, you should leave the law enforcement to real police & get back to assisting lost tourists and filing papers

AFAIK, you are not allowed to film "Nature" at most places in Walking Street.

[Lost in LOS]

just a few points

i hate people taking pictures and video on walking street but..............this is a tourist area and they are tourists so what can we do....public area and all

the real tourist police seem to be no problem

the farang volunteers appear to be on a power trip.

* militaristic black uniforms.... how about black pants and a white polo shirt so it appears they are there to help and assist

* endless trinkets hanging from their belts

* walking 4-5-6 across on walking street forcing us to walk around them

* arrogant scowl on their faces, probably an attempt to keep us in line, never saw one smiling when walking

* they make their presence known so the touts know when to run and hide, funny to watch, as the touts come right out behind them and continue to sell

* twice when i asked them for help i was politely told "not their job"

* on the few occasions i have seen them in action they were only messing with people that seemed to be doing nothing while ignoring loud, aggressive, arrogant louts. I have watched, from my walking street chair, many obnoxious farangs with an aggressive manner being ignored by them

my suggestion, do what the say they are doing.

lose the uniform, dress friendly.

lose the aggressive attitude and walk

lose the trinkets

say hello to the farangs that live here and they recognize, a smile instead of a scowl

just my thoughts

[Ulysses G.]

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming.

Blocking the camera with your hands has pretty much the same effect.

[soundman]

Numerous posts have been removed from public view & warnings/holidays issued.

Keep it civil and tone down the language gentlemen or I will have no choice but to close, despite the OP's dubious motives, an interesting topic.

Thank-you for your co-operation.