Help Inverter Air Conditioner V Standard Air Conditioner Which One Shall I Buy?

[PattayaParent]

It sounds like you live in an igloo Naam!

What are your thoughts on cassette type airconditioners? Why didn't you choose them?

[elkangorito]

It sounds like you live in an igloo Naam!

What are your thoughts on cassette type airconditioners? Why didn't you choose them?

I'll have a go at this since I've worked with 'fridgies' for many years. I'm not a Refrigeration Mechanic but I did start a Journeyman's Course in this once.

1] More difficult to install/work on.

2] Installation limitations apply. E.g. is there enough ceiling space?

Most refrigeration mechanics who I know, do not like working on these units if the ceiling space is small.

I also fully 'back up' Doc for his perceived 'touchiness' regarding 'opinions'.

It's a bit like someone saying, "I've got 5 earth rods installed & everything is great." The question is, how do they know that it is 'great'? Without reasonable technical knowledge on the matter, these comments are just 'hot air'.

Here's another example of 'hot air':

"I've been driving without a thermostat in my car for the last 5 years & it's been great. The engine never gets hot."

A late edit: Doc. Please correct me, in the harshest possible way, if I have forgetten anything or made a mistake

Edited May 6, 2010 by elkangorito

[Naam]

1. It sounds like you live in an igloo Naam!

2. What are your thoughts on cassette type airconditioners? Why didn't you choose them?

1. my house is not that cold. the temperatures varies in different areas between 26 and 27ºC.

2. they look neat, wall mounted split units look ugly especially when you are used (like me) to central airconditioning.

big drawback: small electric pump for condensation water as installation makes a sloped drain impossible. if the pump fails and your gypsum ceiling gets wet you will be veeeeery unhappy.

smaller drawbacks: -rather difficult filter cleaning, -double the price of same capacity wall mounted units.

disclaimer: i have one big cassette type in my pool area. reasons: i need pool heating from mid october till end march as my enclosed and roofed pool never gets any sun. the "waste" heat of the aircon is used to heat the pool water via a heat exchanger and the pool area (which is our alternative living room during Thailand's "cool" season) is airconditioned free of charge. ceiling of pool area is not gypsum and if the pump fails condens water will drip on a tiled floor or -if my installation works- in the pool.

[david96]

Here are some reasons for using inverter drive split system airconditioners.

Lower installation costs.(Can install in less than 8 hours).

Easier maintainance and thus lower maintainance cost.

Lower operating cost

More precise air temperatures ( return air temperature)

Loss of one unit does not affect the remaining airconditioned areas

unlike central airconditioning with ducting to air vents in all rooms.

Central airconditioning very expensive to run.( domestic installations)

Airconditioner units installed in a ceiling space will not operate as efficiently due to higher ambient temperatures.Difficult to maintain if area confined ( ref. to safety measures for working in a confined space, WH&S) Should be avoided if possible.

[stgrhe]

As said in other posts the intended usage of the A/C would have an impact on the decision on whether an inverter system is better that a conventional type.

I started my career as reefer engineer and claim to know a bit of how refer system works despite not having worked with these systems since the mid 60'.

Many people do not understand that the prime job for an A/C is dehumification of the ambient air, not cooling down. Operating an A/C on / off with forced cooling uses a lot of energy and it also wears the compressor much more than running with longer duty cycles. We are using the A/C for well over twelve hours daily and in our case an inverter system is well worth the added cost for the system, and will in fact be economical after some years. That said, with a different user profile, the added cost is likely to be wasted.

The system I have chosen is the Daikin Super-Inverter ceiling concealed split system. In that decision I also valued not having, in my opinion ugly, wall hanging units and fairly noisy cassette units. Aesthetics and low noise level were thus important factors to me but, again, they may not be important to someone else.

[Langsuan Man]

Can't a MOD do something about 6 duplicate posts PLEASE

[Crossy]

Can't a MOD do something about 6 duplicate posts PLEASE

Done

I think he wanted to make sure we really got the message (more likely a crappy internet connection).

[PattayaParent]

1. It sounds like you live in an igloo Naam!

2. What are your thoughts on cassette type airconditioners? Why didn't you choose them?

1. my house is not that cold. the temperatures varies in different areas between 26 and 27ºC.

2. they look neat, wall mounted split units look ugly especially when you are used (like me) to central airconditioning.

big drawback: small electric pump for condensation water as installation makes a sloped drain impossible. if the pump fails and your gypsum ceiling gets wet you will be veeeeery unhappy.

smaller drawbacks: -rather difficult filter cleaning, -double the price of same capacity wall mounted units.

disclaimer: i have one big cassette type in my pool area. reasons: i need pool heating from mid october till end march as my enclosed and roofed pool never gets any sun. the "waste" heat of the aircon is used to heat the pool water via a heat exchanger and the pool area (which is our alternative living room during Thailand's "cool" season) is airconditioned free of charge. ceiling of pool area is not gypsum and if the pump fails condens water will drip on a tiled floor or -if my installation works- in the pool.

Thanks Naam, and Elkangarito.

Aesthetically a cassette type AC would be better as I would have to have 2 wall mounted units only 3m apart from each other due to column and door restrictions and they would be installed low on the wall (~2.1m height) due to a beam.

I hear what you say about the leak but gypsum is pretty easy to replace.

And I'll be more likley to be using the heating function than the cooling anyway.

[Naam]

1. Aesthetically a cassette type AC would be better as I would have to have 2 wall mounted units only 3m apart from each other due to column and door restrictions and they would be installed low on the wall (~2.1m height) due to a beam.

2. I hear what you say about the leak but gypsum is pretty easy to replace.

3. And I'll be more likley to be using the heating function than the cooling anyway.

1. that goes without saying

2. i am not a masochist who likes to half a dozen clowns for several days in my living room, dirtying up the place and fix the ceiling in a way that makes me puke for years to come.

3. for heating the lower the better. for airconditioning 2.1m is perfect. you don't want to disturb the warm air in the upper area of the room. that's where some inefficiency of a ceiling mounted unit comes in cooling mode. a ceiling unit for heating mode is in my [not so] humble view a worst case scenario!

[PattayaParent]

<snip>

The system I have chosen is the Daikin Super-Inverter ceiling concealed split system. In that decision I also valued not having, in my opinion ugly, wall hanging units and fairly noisy cassette units. Aesthetics and low noise level were thus important factors to me but, again, they may not be important to someone else.

That's the system I'm considering, non Inverter type though.

Any comments / regrets / warnings / praise about Daikin?

[Naam]

<snip>

The system I have chosen is the Daikin Super-Inverter ceiling concealed split system. In that decision I also valued not having, in my opinion ugly, wall hanging units and fairly noisy cassette units. Aesthetics and low noise level were thus important factors to me but, again, they may not be important to someone else.

That's the system I'm considering, non Inverter type though. Any comments / regrets / warnings / praise about Daikin?

all my units are Daikin, never had a breakdown in 4 years except two leaking refrigerant pipes. the "ugly" wall mounted inside units are quite noisy at high fan speeds but as they have a selection of 6 speeds it is not a problem. that cassette units are noisy is in my [not so] humble opinion a ridiculous statement. i am not able to hear mine even at high fan speed.

[david96]

The "cassette "type of wall mounted airconditioner if one is correct is what is known as the "wall rattler" in Australia. Flush mounted in the wall. They have been superseded by the split system type. Replacements of the wall mounting airconditioners are made by installing the split system type.

One of the problems of maintainance of the wall mounting type was that one had to remove the unit from its enclosure in the wall and this required 2 persons with lifting frame to lower and raise them.

[Crossy]

The "cassette "type of wall mounted airconditioner if one is correct is what is known as the "wall rattler" in Australia. Flush mounted in the wall. They have been superseded by the split system type. Replacements of the wall mounting airconditioners are made by installing the split system type.

These are what we mean by 'cassette' units, not the old wall-rattler (horrible things they are). It's really just a flash indoor unit.

[Naam]

These are what we mean by 'cassette' units, not the old wall-rattler (horrible things they are). It's really just a flash indoor unit...

...and extremely quiet!

[david96]

The "cassette "type of wall mounted airconditioner if one is correct is what is known as the "wall rattler" in Australia. Flush mounted in the wall. They have been superseded by the split system type. Replacements of the wall mounting airconditioners are made by installing the split system type.

These are what we mean by 'cassette' units, not the old wall-rattler (horrible things they are). It's really just a flash indoor unit.

As these are mounted in the wall the wall will have to be cut to suit measurements of unit.

On which side is the power connection? They appear that one can not retro fit with the standard in wall mounted unit.

They do appear to be very compact (no overhang outside of building).

Yes one would agree neat.

[PattayaParent]

^They're mounted in your suspended ceiling, not in the wall.

They are still a split unit which requires the ACCU outside.

[oldgit]

^They're mounted in your suspended ceiling, not in the wall.

They are still a split unit which requires the ACCU outside.

You require a false ceiling space of about 300mm for most sizes and all you see from the room is the grille.The refrigeration,electrical and condense lines are located within the fase ceiling space.The unit is supported from the unit cleats via studding to a slotted channel framing arrangement on the slab soffit.The return air filter is behind the centre grille and the supply air rotating vanes are situated around the perimeter.Two way and four way throw indoor units can be purchased depending on the shape of the area to be comfort cooled.The outdoor unit is mounted as per a normal split system.

The 'wall rattler' is a package unit mounted in the wall thickness on a wooden frame with the condenser part of the unit on the outside.It is used quite extensively as it is easy to install and requires just a internal spur switch.One of the biggest problems with this unit is security as,when removed,it leaves a gaping hole in the wall.

[Naam]

The "cassette "type of wall mounted airconditioner if one is correct is what is known as the "wall rattler" in Australia. Flush mounted in the wall. They have been superseded by the split system type. Replacements of the wall mounting airconditioners are made by installing the split system type.

These are what we mean by 'cassette' units, not the old wall-rattler (horrible things they are). It's really just a flash indoor unit.

As these are mounted in the wall the wall will have to be cut to suit measurements of unit.

On which side is the power connection? They appear that one can not retro fit with the standard in wall mounted unit.

They do appear to be very compact (no overhang outside of building).

Yes one would agree neat.

goodness gracious David! in which remote part of this planet are you living?

[david96]

The "cassette "type of wall mounted airconditioner if one is correct is what is known as the "wall rattler" in Australia. Flush mounted in the wall. They have been superseded by the split system type. Replacements of the wall mounting airconditioners are made by installing the split system type.

These are what we mean by 'cassette' units, not the old wall-rattler (horrible things they are). It's really just a flash indoor unit.

As these are mounted in the wall the wall will have to be cut to suit measurements of unit.

On which side is the power connection? They appear that one can not retro fit with the standard in wall mounted unit.

They do appear to be very compact (no overhang outside of building).

Yes one would agree neat.

goodness gracious David! in which remote part of this planet are you living?

In North Qld, Australia, split systems are the standard for residential airconditioner installations. The wall mounted units are no longer available.

[david96]

Re. Cassette units, Split system.

They may be suitable for some residential buildings in Thailand but to install a unit in a ceiling space where the ambient temperatures can reach up to 50C (Australia) would not be very wise.

You may have construction problems and compliance with building codes also.

They are of course a split system. They would be far more expensive to install.

This is why the wall mounted split systems are so popular, they are easy to install and when used as a replacement for the old wall mounted units the space which they occupied is blanked off with blockwork or weatherproof sheeting.

[stgrhe]

David, I remember that ducted A/C systems are also quite popular in Australia and several of my former neighbours in Sydney had ducted systems installed in their homes.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, I have read somewhere that new domestic A/C installations in Australia must be inverter systems or fitted with soft starters.

[Naam]

Re. Cassette units, Split system.

They may be suitable for some residential buildings in Thailand but to install a unit in a ceiling space where the ambient temperatures can reach up to 50C (Australia) would not be very wise.

You may have construction problems and compliance with building codes also.

They are of course a split system. They would be far more expensive to install.

This is why the wall mounted split systems are so popular, they are easy to install and when used as a replacement for the old wall mounted units the space which they occupied is blanked off with blockwork or weatherproof sheeting.

you have similar or even higher temperatures in Thailand in single story buildings because the "ceiling unit" is actually installed in the attic space. if this space is not properly vented and insulated temperatures can reach in excess of 75ºC. any unit which has an air intake at ceiling level is much more inefficient than a wall-mounted split unit if the latter is not mounted at full wall height.

[david96]

David, I remember that ducted A/C systems are also quite popular in Australia and several of my former neighbours in Sydney had ducted systems installed in their homes.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, I have read somewhere that new domestic A/C installations in Australia must be inverter systems or fitted with soft starters.

Ducted units were installed in residential installations in the 1980s with a central compressor unit fan unit. they were not very energy efficient.

The policy now is to install inverter type split systems with the fancoil unit mounted on the wall.

Run them as you need them.

[PattayaParent]

1. Aesthetically a cassette type AC would be better as I would have to have 2 wall mounted units only 3m apart from each other due to column and door restrictions and they would be installed low on the wall (~2.1m height) due to a beam.

<snip>

3. for heating the lower the better. for airconditioning 2.1m is perfect. you don't want to disturb the warm air in the upper area of the room. that's where some inefficiency of a ceiling mounted unit comes in cooling mode. a ceiling unit for heating mode is in my [not so] humble view a worst case scenario!

I think the underside of the wall mounted units will be installed at a height of around 2.4m with a ceiling height of 2.7m.

Obviously the cassette will be at 2.7m.

[david96]

1. Aesthetically a cassette type AC would be better as I would have to have 2 wall mounted units only 3m apart from each other due to column and door restrictions and they would be installed low on the wall (~2.1m height) due to a beam.

<snip>

3. for heating the lower the better. for airconditioning 2.1m is perfect. you don't want to disturb the warm air in the upper area of the room. that's where some inefficiency of a ceiling mounted unit comes in cooling mode. a ceiling unit for heating mode is in my [not so] humble view a worst case scenario!

I think the underside of the wall mounted units will be installed at a height of around 2.4m with a ceiling height of 2.7m.

Obviously the cassette will be at 2.7m.

Surface mounted on the ceiling, not flush mounted? they would have to be mounted on the ceiling joists with pipework and electrical cabling in the ceiling.

[david96]

With reference to post #53 by Naam.

"In excess of 75C" This is the ambient air temperature?

This would exceed the ratings for most cables. This temperature is above the recomended for a storage HWS. No person could work in that temperature.

I thing you will find that 50C to 55C perhaps 60C at a max. Cable and protection devices working at those ambient temperatures would require them to be operated at derated values.

Normal ambient temperature is normally 40C or 45C when installing electrical equipment and most airconditioning calculations are based on a max of 45C with a return air temperature of 22 to 25C at the fan coil unit in a residential installation. (Guide only)

[Naam]

"In excess of 75C" This is the ambient air temperature?

This would exceed the ratings for most cables. This temperature is above the recomended for a storage HWS. No person could work in that temperature.

i measured higher temperatures in the attic of my house in Florida after switching off the exhaust fans.

[PattayaParent]

1. Aesthetically a cassette type AC would be better as I would have to have 2 wall mounted units only 3m apart from each other due to column and door restrictions and they would be installed low on the wall (~2.1m height) due to a beam.

<snip>

3. for heating the lower the better. for airconditioning 2.1m is perfect. you don't want to disturb the warm air in the upper area of the room. that's where some inefficiency of a ceiling mounted unit comes in cooling mode. a ceiling unit for heating mode is in my [not so] humble view a worst case scenario!

I think the underside of the wall mounted units will be installed at a height of around 2.4m with a ceiling height of 2.7m.

Obviously the cassette will be at 2.7m.

Surface mounted on the ceiling, not flush mounted? they would have to be mounted on the ceiling joists with pipework and electrical cabling in the ceiling.

Surface mounted on the walls for the split units, flush mounted for the cassette.

[PattayaParent]

"In excess of 75C" This is the ambient air temperature?

This would exceed the ratings for most cables. This temperature is above the recomended for a storage HWS. No person could work in that temperature.

i measured higher temperatures in the attic of my house in Florida after switching off the exhaust fans.

are you guys getting C and F mixed up?

[Naam]

"In excess of 75C" This is the ambient air temperature?

This would exceed the ratings for most cables. This temperature is above the recomended for a storage HWS. No person could work in that temperature.

i measured higher temperatures in the attic of my house in Florida after switching off the exhaust fans.

are you guys getting C and F mixed up?

no we are not! i'm a german and always use centigrades and metric values. only when talking to a citizen of the Greatest Nation on Earth™ i translate civilised values into barbaric ones such as "bushels per square foot, ºFahrenheit per mile, pounds per newton-meter, ounces per hectopascal and dollars per square yard".