Big Trouble ? With Reiirement Visa In Chiang Mai

[tigermonkey]

I am Canadian, age 66. This is already driving me crazy, and I don’t know what to do about it, or what is normal/abnormal in what is happening to me.

July 20, I went to the Chiang Mai Immigration office to get a continuance/renewal on my Visa ( Non-Immigrant ‘O’ Visa for Retirement expiring within a couple of days) . I had been told that this was very routine, and “no problem” -- I appeared with my new Embassy letter confirming adequate monthly income. Everything had been in order at many previous visits with no problems.

I have just received a new passport ( old one was full ) , so I brought new and old passport ( containing Non – Imm ‘O’ Visa) with me.

I was shocked when I was told I could only be issued an extension of stay ( 30 days for 1900 baht), because I was too close to the expiry date on my Visa.. Then I was told to come back tomorrow to apply for a new Non – Immigrant ‘O’ Visa . I responded that it was impossible for me to return tomorrow, since it is a long drive into Chiang Mai from the southwest corner of Lamphun province.

He asked when I could return, and we agreed on the date of July 29 . He then asked me for another 2000 baht and an application for a change of Visa. All papers were completed and receipts issued ( from different receipt books) .

On looking at the receipts, there is no stamp on the 1900 baht receipt. The 2000 baht receipt has my name wrong on it ( first and middle name instead of first name and surname) and a strange stamp , saying quote “ Application of stay is under consideration of the Immigration Bureau. Applicant must contact the office in person on 29 JUL 2010 . Signed, etc”

By this time, I was totally confused and bewildered, and not sure what was happening. I went back into the waiting area to talk to my Thai wife who waited there for me. Before I could discuss it with her, the immigration officer called her to the counter. He asked her many questions about our marriage and the number of visas that I have had. Then he asked her “ Do you want him to stay here with you ?” She replied “ Yes”

He then said, “ He only has permission to stay here one month now. If you want him to live with you longer, you are going to have to help me and the others in this office. I will see you on July 29 “

My wife is absolutely sure he wants money, and will not issue a new Non-Immigrant ‘O’ Visa without it. She was in tears and is ashamed to be Thai.

Comments and advise please – time is short and I have no money to give to them.

[Jingthing]

I am wondering if the issue is that you hadn't transferred the old visa/permission to stay into your new passport.

[moe666]

I am wondering if the issue is that you hadn't transferred the old visa/permission to stay into your new passport.

That was my immediate thought didn't transfer extension of stay into new passport. I think you and wife need to talk to supervisor before the due date about what exactlly needs to be done.

[InterestedObserver]

Not quite sure what to make of it. Do you have a retirement extension of stay in your old passport, and was it transferred into the new passport? For some reason immigration is making you start all over again with a 30 day extension (1,900 baht), conversion to Non "O" (2,000 baht) and 12 month retirement extension of stay (1,900 baht).

Edited July 20, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[Jingthing]

I just reread your OP. While I still suspect the root of the problem really is that you came in rather late for this extension and you hadn't transferred your old permission to stay, I don't see any real evidence that you are being scammed by immigration. It sounds like there is a real problem and they are trying to help you! I humbly suggest you work with them. What choice do you have anyway? You may get hints here as to why/how this happened, but again, your only real help now that will make any difference is at immigration.

BTW, it is not unheard of for retirees to need to start over with a new O visa, all done in Thailand. It sounds like a major inconvenience and how you fell into this sounds a bit unusual, but doing so is not that unusual.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[PoorSucker]

Report it here:

Complaints immigrations.

[Jingthing]

With due respect, we have heard one side of this story from a man who sounds agitated and maybe even confused. Assuming there is no scam (and that is my bet) do you think a combative attitude is going to help with getting this sorted out at immigration? File a complaint from where? Prison for being on overstay, Laos, Canada? There is a solution and calm heads should prevail.

Another point. Its a good idea to come in for extensions 30 days before expiration of permission to stay. I believe most all offices will welcome this with no question. That way, there will be ample time to fix problems that are fixable.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[lounger]

With due respect, we have heard one side of this story from a man who sounds agitated and maybe even confused. Assuming there is no scam (and that is my bet) do you think a combative attitude is going to help with getting this sorted out at immigration? File a complaint from where? Prison for being on overstay, Laos, Canada? There is a solution and calm heads should prevail.

Another point. Its a good idea to come in for extensions 30 days before expiration of permission to stay. I believe most all offices will welcome this with no question. That way, there will be ample time to fix problems that are fixable.

I am amazed that all posts are on the side of the immigration. That scamm has such a high profile cannot be ignored and it has to be considered here. But what to do? I dont have any advice but the information suggests that the applications are in time unless the pasport expiration date is a problem; this should have been overcome by the issue of a new passport. Insisting on an explanation maybe the only way out............

Interviewing the wife is a red herring (she supports his application) and is clearly not relevant.

Good luck.

[Jingthing]

Something happened, that's for sure. However, it seems to me, this isn't a matter of right and wrong, but a matter of getting this man his extension of stay. Starting a federal case over what may well be a big misunderstanding (again, my bet) seems to be asking for more trouble and reduce the chances of a pleasant solution.

I don't mean to take sides, sorry if it sounds that way. However, my strong feeling with my dealings with immigration is that they have ALL the power, and it is my role to kowtow to them to be granted their good graces. So yes if they say jump, jump, and smile when you do it.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[Tywais]

Assuming there is no scam (and that is my bet)

I also doubt it as I have been using the CM immigration for 18+ years with no sign of impropriety from that office and believe is the experience of many CM members also. They've gone overboard for me on occasion when paperwork from the university was wrong or late with no hints of wanting anything from me.

There is a solution and calm heads should prevail.

Agreed. It looks to me they are trying to make a path for the OP but some misunderstanding on his part is complicating it.

As for being "on the side" of immigration, in this case yes based on my long experience with them in CM.

[TerryLH]

It almost sounds like an extension for marriage.

On the other hand, two fees is not normal for what he was trying to do.

That may be unheard of by some, but I've been here a long time and haven't heard of it before. Not for what should be a straightforward extension.

Agree that some info is probably missing here.

[Jingthing]

For some reason they couldn't process his extension. I bet they had a good reason, sorry. So they charged him a fee for the 30 day extension (what's abnormal about that if it is needed?) to give him time to start over with a new O plus a new extension (which will be two more fees). Let's not get hung up on normal or abnormal. The OP needs to accept the situation he is in now and deal with it. Let's face it, for most people who are here for the long term, it is quite likely that someday we are going to have some issue with immigration. There is no guarantee that every year is going to be smooth sailing. Again -- GO EARLY!

Edited July 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[dadisbell]

Seems to me that there is a requirement that your passport has to have and expire date of months past the visa expire date...could this be an issue?

I do agree...be polite and smile no matter the turmoil churning inside1

[sarahsbloke]

For some reason they couldn't process his extension. I bet they had a good reason, sorry. So they charged him a fee for the 30 day extension (what's abnormal about that if it is needed?) to give him time to start over with a new O plus a new extension (which will be two more fees). Let's not get hung up on normal or abnormal. The OP needs to accept the situation he is in now and deal with it. Let's face it, for most people who are here for the long term, it is quite likely that someday we are going to have some issue with immigration. There is no guarantee that every year is going to be smooth sailing. Again -- GO EARLY!

If it was legit, why didn't they sell him a 60 day extension to visit his wife?

Why extract the maximum money for the minimum time?

He should have transferred his Visa into the new passport though.

Edited July 21, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Artisi]

Report it here:

Complaints immigrations.

Complain with caution, any loss of face will compound your problems.

Remember, there is a solution to every problem in Thailand and you would be better served solving this one face-to-face.

[Mario2008]

I suggest OP scans his visa and extension of stay details and post it here, so we can try to make sense out of it.

[tigermonkey]

Thank you for all replies -- today is a new day, with a better vision of the situation.

I can accept that I need to "start all over again ' for whatever reason -- probably that time was so short before expiry of my old 'O' visa, complicated by a new passport ( which I just received) and non - transferrance of visa to new passport . Unfortunately, this was the timing that circumstances gave to me -- I will continue to smile and go through the process again .

The issue that haunts us is the request for "help" from the immigration officer -- my Thai is not sufficient to be sure of his meaning when he interviewed my wife -- but she insists that he meant money , and she has no doubt about this.

My only input to this feeling is his question to me just before he interviewed my wife -- he asked " How much money do you have ? " . I responded " Enough"

We have decided to return July 29 for the appointment -- calm and behaving as if all is normal -- my wife will not go into the Immigration office, and not be available for interview.

If any issues which are outside of the 'normal' process are brought up, I will simply act naive and ignore the request , if money is requested. If there is a problem with this, then I will file a formal complaint , but for now I wll not escalate the issue.

Edited July 21, 2010 by tigermonkey

[lopburi3]

Something is very wrong with this story as a 30 day extension of stay is done for a tourist visa but applicant says he has a non immigrant O but then says has been doing for years with visits to immigration so it appears he has one year extension of stay. Am not aware of any way Immigration can issue a tourist visa as basis to change visa category. A 30 day extension of a non immigrant visa/extension of stay would not qualify for change. Wife should not have anything to do with retirement extension of stay (although talking with her if there is not uncommon).

Perhaps it is the new passport, as information should have first been transferred into that from the old passport (which is free). Has this information actually been transferred into the new passport? Not enough time would seem to refer to your old passport not being valid long enough for a one year extension of stay. Your old passport was marked as canceled? Or could they have believed it was still valid? Did they make a transfer of information from old to new passport (visa info/entry info and extension of stay info)?

Edit: our posts crossed. Next visit may allow you to extend for a new 1,900 fee or you will be told to return after 60 days.

[parallaxtech]

Who transfers your old extension of stay into the new passport and what does it cost? I am going in for an extension of stay next week and will have the old and new passport (new one has the new visa). Will they transfer it then or should I have it done first and then go in?

Edited July 21, 2010 by parallaxtech

[lopburi3]

Normally you do it upon receipt of new passport and there is no charge but a form to fill out and visa info plus entry stamps and extension of stay must be found/checked/transferred. Copy of passport data/visa/entry/extension plus copy of new passport data page are normally required for this process. Your Embassy should also provide a letter asking this be done.

That said several recent reports are that Immigration has told people to wait until leaving country and let them do there muddies the water a bit. Have not seen any recent "official" information.

[harrry]

This is a guess and I am not trying to insult the poster but it seems like miscommunication.

It appears the OP attended immigration with only a couple of days to go and only an embassy letter. He does not indicate the amount...which has changed over the years. He had some charges to pay...was 90 day reporting one? We do not know what time of day he went. He was asked how much money he had and told them Enough. Immigration officers do not like replies like this as th law lets them ask for any information. The officer offered to complete the the work the next day however this was too difficult for the OP. The OP does not speak Thai.

If I had been the immigration officer I would have been concerned at the apparent lack of cooperating. I know if an immigration officer in Australia asked me how much money I had he would give me a hard time if I just said enough.

I think he may have just spoken to your wife to indicate that there are requirements to be met and these need cooperation.

Edited July 21, 2010 by harrry

[fvw53]

Not quite sure what to make of it. Do you have a retirement extension of stay in your old passport, and was it transferred into the new passport? For some reason immigration is making you start all over again with a 30 day extension (1,900 baht), conversion to Non "O" (2,000 baht) and 12 month retirement extension of stay (1,900 baht).

In never heard about conversion to Non Imm "O" visa done at the Immigration office : I thought that "visa" is a permission to enter and stay in the country which can only be given by a diplomatic mission (embassy or consulate) abroad...

[lopburi3]

Immigration is able and willing to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant entry to allow extension of stay if you meet the requirements and has been doing so for a few years now. It costs an extra 2,000 baht; so the assumption was that accounted for the 2,000 baht of OP. But as mentioned above it could also be the normal fine for late reporting of 90 day address (which was not mentioned by OP).

[parallaxtech]

I have already gone through a mess in Koh Samui IO. Email the Bangkok Immigration Office with all the details and ask what is needed and how much it will cost [email protected] . They were very responsive and helpful. If you still don't understand, go to the Tourist Police and ask them to please explain the situation.

[Lite Beer]

In never heard about conversion to Non Imm "O" visa done at the Immigration office : I thought that "visa" is a permission to enter and stay in the country which can only be given by a diplomatic mission (embassy or consulate) abroad...

Immigration can issue a Non Imm O Visa if it is part of the process for a 12 month extension.

[parallaxtech]

Immigration is able and willing to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant entry to allow extension of stay if you meet the requirements and has been doing so for a few years now. It costs an extra 2,000 baht; so the assumption was that accounted for the 2,000 baht of OP. But as mentioned above it could also be the normal fine for late reporting of 90 day address (which was not mentioned by OP).

Lop: Thanks. I have a new non-imm O and this will be my first extension on it, all in the new passport, so don't think my old extension is relevant, is it? I will take my old passport with me, but don't see any need to transfer anything, as all stamps have expired.

Edited July 21, 2010 by parallaxtech

[lopburi3]

You have both a new passport with a new visa and have entered Thailand using that visa and it is in your new passport? You will then extend your stay during the last 30 days of that permitted to stay? Should be fine. It normally is an issue only if you obtain a new passport inside Thailand or use old passport visa/re-entry for entry.

[sarahsbloke]

My only input to this feeling is his question to me just before he interviewed my wife -- he asked " How much money do you have ? " . I responded " Enough"

No requirement for a wife on a retirement Visa, only 800k and aged over 50, why would he interview her, why would he ask her does she want you to stay with her.

There is at least 1 corrupt person at that office, I can absolutely confirm that from personal experience.

[InterestedObserver]

Immigration is able and willing to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant entry to allow extension of stay if you meet the requirements and has been doing so for a few years now. It costs an extra 2,000 baht; so the assumption was that accounted for the 2,000 baht of OP. But as mentioned above it could also be the normal fine for late reporting of 90 day address (which was not mentioned by OP).

Does not appear to be a fine for late reporting.

On looking at the receipts, there is no stamp on the 1900 baht receipt. The 2000 baht receipt has my name wrong on it ( first and middle name instead of first name and surname) and a strange stamp , saying quote " Application of stay is under consideration of the Immigration Bureau. Applicant must contact the office in person on 29 JUL 2010 . Signed, etc"

[tigermonkey]

My only input to this feeling is his question to me just before he interviewed my wife -- he asked " How much money do you have ? " . I responded " Enough"

No requirement for a wife on a retirement Visa, only 800k and aged over 50, why would he interview her, why would he ask her does she want you to stay with her.

There is at least 1 corrupt person at that office, I can absolutely confirm that from personal experience.

Thanks.

I just hope it is not the same immigration officer that I am dealing with --- see my description in original post.