The New Skytrain

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

Yes, it will run along Lam Lukka rd. It is listed as #18 in the list above under (C) with the estimated tender date of 2019/20.

 

I still think that this is accurate as MRTA has been stating that they wish to do this and the last section of the southern extension soon, but the reality is that the delays  to the Purple and Orange line extensions will push this back. In reality, it should be contracted before the full northern extension opens in late 2019. 

 

Here is a recent update of the Northern extension if you have good long sight vision....

 

Might be a trick of the lens but some of those stations look really close together!

[Lakegeneve]

16 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I am also a fan of mass transit systems. But I have some serious doubts re the wisdom of what they are doing in BKK ++.

I am reasonably sure they will strongly regret this within 10 years.

 

Several new transport systems are being designed and built, all incompatible,

electric light

skytrain

mrt-underground

srt

monorail

and I am sure there are more

 

If you look at BKK, you do not need to go far from the city centre before you find large areas of undeveloped land,

can be used for housing can be used for business or both.

When that happens a major shift in transport requirements will surface. In order to cater for that you need flexibility

in the transport network. You dont have that. Too many incompatible systems.

Many have written on this exact issue including moi over the years. (If you go back a few years into this thread you'll find a few posts that I wrote on this exact issue).

 

I have been especially critical of the private concessionaire model used in Bangkok which I regard as flawed and which has lead to many of the problems we have experienced especially in relation to overcrowding and the delay of integrated ticketing. The lack of integrated ticketing is particularly appalling given the long delays and that it is the norm nearly everywhere else for decades. 

 

The general lack of integration and interoperability is a big problem has it limits future options and has a complete lack of operational logic most highlighted by the SRT commuter red line plans. Heavy rail lines changed to monorail (Yellow and Pink) will have long term problems which I've mentioned numerous times.

 

However, after years of delays and constant govt changes interfering with the process, we basically have to accept what is being built now and be happy that many lines have finally progressed to the point where we will have a basic, decent network in a few years. Major remedies will be required in the future to improve the network. However, when you look at major highway construction, new airports or other transport infrastructure built in Thailand that has always been the case (and most likely will continue to be so). 

[Lakegeneve]

10 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Might be a trick of the lens but some of those stations look really close together!

Ave is around 1km apart. I'm actually surprised that the lens could film some of the more northern stations up near Lak Si circle. Impressive. (I wonder what/who else the owner is filming from his Suplai condo....?)

[melvinmelvin]

47 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

Many have written on this exact issue including moi over the years. (If you go back a few years into this thread you'll find a few posts that I wrote on this exact issue).

 

I have been especially critical of the private concessionaire model used in Bangkok which I regard as flawed and which has lead to many of the problems we have experienced especially in relation to overcrowding and the delay of integrated ticketing. The lack of integrated ticketing is particularly appalling given the long delays and that it is the norm nearly everywhere else for decades. 

 

The general lack of integration and interoperability is a big problem has it limits future options and has a complete lack of operational logic most highlighted by the SRT commuter red line plans. Heavy rail lines changed to monorail (Yellow and Pink) will have long term problems which I've mentioned numerous times.

 

However, after years of delays and constant govt changes interfering with the process, we basically have to accept what is being built now and be happy that many lines have finally progressed to the point where we will have a basic, decent network in a few years. Major remedies will be required in the future to improve the network. However, when you look at major highway construction, new airports or other transport infrastructure built in Thailand that has always been the case (and most likely will continue to be so). 

 

right Leman, am happy we agree on that

It will cost an arm or several and a couple of legs to sort this out in 10-15 years time

 

integrated ticketing - including water transport - look forward to  that - just might happen before I perish

 

[burner2014]

Hey guys,

 

reading this one http://www.atmegacity.com/400rai-megacity-67billion/

 

Planned investments such as the MRT Yellow Line and the BMA’s rail line that will connect the BTS Sukhumvit Line with Suvarnabhumi Airport stand to support further growth in the area.

 

Does anyone has more information? Here at Mega Bangna everyone is already marketing with the BTS (e.g. new Condos) , but I wonder when UDOM Suk will be connected with Mega Bangna.   (I tried to search here a bit but hard to follow this topic and all information)

 

I found also this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang_Na–Suvarnabhumi_Line   and this one as the latest news https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/1475937/bts-musters-resources-for-rail-projects

Edited September 4, 2018 by burner2014

[Lakegeneve]

On 1/7/2018 at 2:27 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Before doing the next update I thought that I'd post these BTSC charts for some guidance (though not all dates are accurate)

 

1) Firstly, an update of current texts and lines which will be operated by the BTS Group. All of these lines/exts are MRTA projects.

 

Main points to note, the Samrong to Samut Prakan ext will open by Dec 2018 and work has started on the MRT Pink Monorail line. The operations dates for the MRT Pink and MRT Yellow lines are also unrealistic. Expect mid 2022 at the earliest.

2) Next group of lines that BTSC wants to bid for operations. Note that seem keen on the Orange line which will be news to BEM who will assume that they have the inside running.

 

Also, the suggested timelines on the BMA Grey monorail Line and the long proposed link from Bang Na to the Airport (called LRT here) are wildly optimistic. Cabinet and the MRTA already has Purple southern ext approved (tender delayed), the Orange Western ext and Blue Line west ext as priority projects to get tendered in the first half of 2018. Plus a couple of the SRT Red line ext.

 

I would think that the BTS Bang Wa to Taling Chan ext (Called Western here but actually it is the "South" line) will be tendered well before the BMA Grey line but let's see.

 

Also, both the BTS final south and north exts are more advanced for possible tender in 2018, than the Bang Wa ext.

@burner2014 You'll note that this line is referred to in the BTS charts that I posted a few pages back (pg 44, #653). I used to include it in the summary list up to a couple of years ago, but haven't done so recently. It is also in Archstudents map (Lime Green line).

 

There are a few issues here. Firstly, there is provision in the design of the previous extension to Bearing for the BTS to run this route. Secondly, this line was always intended to open when T3 at BKK airport opens to provide access from the south. T3 opening is contingent upon T2 opening and an APM being built. Both T2 and T3 are years behind both the original and readjusted schedules.

 

However, it is a line that is needed to be built given growth along the corridor. (Samut Prakhan province also has a plan to build a separate line from Samut Prakhan up to the airport). Realistically, I can't see this line being built until around the mid 2020s given the current back log of other extensions and lines. Even, the MRT Brown line will be built before this line. However, everything can change.

[blackcab]

@Lakegeneve What buildings/landmarks does the Gold line connect?

 

It must be pretty special to go to so much effort.

[burner2014]

@Lakegeneve  I really thank you for that insights. Would wish that the officials have a plan like this.

I have to say I see it coming because Mega Bangna is pushing hard and they want it to get more people there.  It's crazy what Mega is pushing but they going now for Megacity ?  so yeah everything can change but what I hear is that Samut Prakan has the money as the district. 

 

 

(Disclaimer I am interested into it for the land prices)  

[YT3k72Em]

11 hours ago, blackcab said:

@Lakegeneve What buildings/landmarks does the Gold line connect?

 

It must be pretty special to go to so much effort.

IconSiam. Due to open in November.

[blackcab]

@Lakegeneve Do you have any info about the missing S4 Suksa Wittaya station please? Outside AIA Sathorn Tower there is a banner with the words "Sky Bridge Coming Soon".

[Lakegeneve]

On 4 October 2018 at 4:31 PM, blackcab said:

@Lakegeneve Do you have any info about the missing S4 Suksa Wittaya station please? Outside AIA Sathorn Tower there is a banner with the words "Sky Bridge Coming Soon".

It was due to be built from mid this year but the tendered. It seems more like starting in the 1st quarter of next year? It will only take 9-12 months to build and fit out. 

[Crossy]

I don't see it in the English language press, but BMA have announced that the eastern extension of the BTS (past Samrong) will be free to use when it opens in December until "early next year".

 

Rabbit users need do nothing and travellers going outside the extension will be able to buy tickets from the machines, but travellers wishing to journey within the extension will need to visit the ticket office to get their free ticket.

 

Maximum fare for the entire system will be capped at 65 Baht.

 

[Lakegeneve]

On 6 October 2018 at 10:48 AM, Crossy said:

I don't see it in the English language press, but BMA have announced that the eastern extension of the BTS (past Samrong) will be free to use when it opens in December until "early next year".

 

Rabbit users need do nothing and travellers going outside the extension will be able to buy tickets from the machines, but travellers wishing to journey within the extension will need to visit the ticket office to get their free ticket.

 

Maximum fare for the entire system will be capped at 65 Baht.

 

Indeed, every BTS extension that has been opened has had a period of free travel for the extension - usually 2-3 months. e.g. On Nut to Bearing, Bearing to Sarong, WWY to Talat Phu. 

 

There are a couple of ironic issues here with this BMA practice. Firstly, every extension has opened up at least 1 year late from the original schedule. Thus, the BMA has not only foregone that income during the period the delay, but thereafter loses further income during the free travel period though this is also stated as a form of compensation to travellers arising from the delayed opening.

 

Secondly, in relation to this extension which is wholly outside Bangkok Province and was/is an MRTA project, the MRTA has basically 'dumped' the ownership (and debts) of the extension onto the BMA. The BMA has strongly resisted this. 

[Crossy]

It now seems that N9 (outside central Ladprao), the first stop past Mo Chit on the north extension is cited for operation in August next year, a >6 month delay on what was previously thought.

 

Looking at the status of the civil works even that is likely pushing it.

[CLW]

It now seems that N9 (outside central Ladprao), the first stop past Mo Chit on the north extension is cited for operation in August next year, a >6 month delay on what was previously thought.
 
Looking at the status of the civil works even that is likely pushing it.

I hope they get to manage to build the surrounding infrastructure on time. I'm not sure if you or another poster mentioned that they are planning to tear down the small shopping area in front of Central and remodel the whole area including skywalk access.

[Lakegeneve]

On 10/10/2018 at 5:36 AM, Crossy said:

It now seems that N9 (outside central Ladprao), the first stop past Mo Chit on the north extension is cited for operation in August next year, a >6 month delay on what was previously thought.

 

Looking at the status of the civil works even that is likely pushing it.

 agree with your Crossy, the MRTA has been stating that this station will open in March 2019 which I took to mean sometime in the 2nd quarter. I pass there semi regularly and it is patently obvious that a March opening will not be met given that work on the actual station has not commenced and the viaduct is still being built. However, once they do start on the station structure most the civil works are built very quickly given the installation of pre-fab beams etc. It is the fitting out that always seems to take 2-3 times as long as it should, especially with the signalling and electrical systems. 

 

Late 2nd quarter 2019 is still achievable if everything falls into place. Of course the irony here is that they should be aiming to open up the whole section to Ratcha Yothin intersection first as the 1st Phase rather than just one station. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Lakegeneve

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, Lakegeneve said:

Of course the irony here is that they should be aiming to open up the whole section to Ratcha Yothin intersection first as the 1st Phase rather than just one station. 

It might still happen that way, the far end of the line is far more complete than N9 so systems installation could start, there's a depot up there too so test running could commence before N9 is ready. Whether it will actually work out I doubt. 

 

It's enough stress trying to be ready for E16-E23 to open on December 5th, only 7 weeks and counting. 

 

[Lakegeneve]

On 5 June 2018 at 4:37 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Progress of civil works for lines currently under construction;

 

1) MRT Blue Line ext: 98.25%

2) BTS Northern ext: 63.27%

3) MRT Orange Line: 8.62%

4) BTS Southern ext: 100%

5) MRT Pink line and MRT Yellow line: still mainly preliminary site works

6) SRT Dark Red Line: 97.94%

7) Tinky toy Gold Line: still mainly preliminary site works but supposedly it will be complete by Dec 2019

 

Progress of civil works for MRTA lines currently under construction as of 30 Sept;

 

1) MRT Blue Line ext: 100% - S&E installation: 61%

2) BTS Northern ext: 79%

3) MRT Orange Line: 18.33%

4) BTS Southern ext: 100% - - S&E installation: 73%

5) MRT Pink Line: 10.57%

6) MRT Yellow Line: 9.61%

[FarangryBirds]

Is the Yellow line even as high as 9.6%? They've certainly closed off the roads ???? but haven't seen a single pillar go up yet, on Thanon Lat Prao anyway.

Edited October 14, 2018 by FarangryBirds

[tom in bangkok]

I saw some trains riding slowly from BTS Samrong heading south through Samut Prakan yesterday, hopefully this means the new stations will actually open in December?

[FarangryBirds]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:03 AM, tom in bangkok said:

I saw some trains riding slowly from BTS Samrong heading south through Samut Prakan yesterday, hopefully this means the new stations will actually open in December?

It looks like December 6th is going to be the opening date, plus the extension will be free to ride for the first four months.

[Nit Noi]

1 hour ago, FarangryBirds said:

It looks like December 6th is going to be the opening date, plus the extension will be free to ride for the first four months.

 

Can anyone answer the question as to whether the capacity in the core of the system (let's say Phaya Thai to On Nut) is going to be increased with the opening of the extension?  They can increase capacity either through running trains more frequently or adding carriages to the existing trains.  As far as I can tell, the new trains ordered will only cover service on the extension and will not bring more service to the rest of the system.  Surely this new extension will bring in additional riders to the core, which is already jammed in the stations, at the turnstiles, and on the platforms.  What is BTS going to do to accommodate these additional passengers?

[Lakegeneve]

1 hour ago, Nit Noi said:

 

Can anyone answer the question as to whether the capacity in the core of the system (let's say Phaya Thai to On Nut) is going to be increased with the opening of the extension?  They can increase capacity either through running trains more frequently or adding carriages to the existing trains.  As far as I can tell, the new trains ordered will only cover service on the extension and will not bring more service to the rest of the system.  Surely this new extension will bring in additional riders to the core, which is already jammed in the stations, at the turnstiles, and on the platforms.  What is BTS going to do to accommodate these additional passengers?

Still aiming for opening on the 5th....not sure where the 6th came from?

 

Regarding capacity, read the post on rolling stock back 5 or 6 pages for some critical points on this issue. There will still be overcrowding, esp in the early months as most of the rolling stock (factored for future growth) has yet to be delivered. The BTS model is to maximise pax numbers while delaying rolling stock expenditure as long as possible. Wait until the MRT Yellow and Pink lines open, they will be worse. 

 

It will probably only eventually change if a couple of people die.......On this issue alone, the concession granted to the BTS should not be extended. 

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Can anyone answer the question as to whether the capacity in the core of the system (let's say Phaya Thai to On Nut) is going to be increased with the opening of the extension?  They can increase capacity either through running trains more frequently or adding carriages to the existing trains.  As far as I can tell, the new trains ordered will only cover service on the extension and will not bring more service to the rest of the system.  Surely this new extension will bring in additional riders to the core, which is already jammed in the stations, at the turnstiles, and on the platforms.  What is BTS going to do to accommodate these additional passengers?

What is BTS going to do? Very little I would think. Rumour has it that some of the new carriages have fewer seats and more standing room; but that is about it.

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[dantilley]

Hi @Lakegeneve, do you have any updated information on the Airport Link? Specifically:

 

- When the carriages that are under maintenance will be completed and put back into service?

- When (if?) the 4th carriage on the old Express trains will be converted from a luggage carriage to a passenger carriage?

- When more rolling stock will be ordered?

 

 

[flbkk]

So what is the latest, when stations beyond Samrong on the Sukhumvit line will open? Further, several past comments about running more trains to increase capacity (or longer trains)–but what will happen at Asok and Siam stations where there are already jammed beyond capacityat rush hours?

 

[brewsterbudgen]

So what is the latest, when stations beyond Samrong on the Sukhumvit line will open? Further, several past comments about running more trains to increase capacity (or longer trains)–but what will happen at Asok and Siam stations where there are already jammed beyond capacityat rush hours?
 

5 December

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[Lakegeneve]

On 8 November 2018 at 2:15 PM, flbkk said:

So what is the latest, when stations beyond Samrong on the Sukhumvit line will open? 

 

I had to laugh when I read this.....there was literally 3 posts just a few above yours in this same page which gave the opening date! 

[Lakegeneve]

On 7 November 2018 at 11:59 AM, dantilley said:

Hi @Lakegeneve, do you have any updated information on the Airport Link? Specifically:

 

- When the carriages that are under maintenance will be completed and put back into service?

- When (if?) the 4th carriage on the old Express trains will be converted from a luggage carriage to a passenger carriage?

- When more rolling stock will be ordered?

 

 

Hi dantilley, you must feel like a broken record having to ask the same questions for the last few years. To be honest I don't know the exact progress of the Express baggage care conversion program. I'll need to go ask for an update.

 

Regarding the new rolling stock (the budget which was approved back in mid 2013), I previously mentioned that it has all been put on hold as whoever wins the Eastern HSR bid (the tender closes this week), will take over operations of the ARL and thus purchase new rolling stock.

 

Thus nothing new before 2023!!! How is that for a completely messed up process of obtaining (NOT) new rolling stock.

[Lakegeneve]

On 5 June 2018 at 4:23 PM, Lakegeneve said:

ARL update:

The Eastern HSR tender is out and the expectation is that a winning bid will be awarded by July/August with work commencing by the end of the year ....if all goes smoothly - which it never does! http://www.railway.co.th/download/2561/Invitation-to-Tender-HSR3Airports.pdf

 

The Transport Ministry has decided that whoever wins the bid to build and run the Eastern HSR will also take over operating the ARL. The SRTET will be abolished and a new SRT entity will be established to manage the 4 planned HSR lines.

 

I now estimate that any new rolling stock for the ARL will not be available until 2022 at the earliest unless the previously mentioned leasing plan come to fruition - knowing the SRT it probably won't.

dantilley, I did say 2022 previously. However, we'll just have to wait and see who wins the tender (I'm betting on the CP Group) and exactly when works starts and what rolling stock they select. Lastly, when that order is placed.....;)

 

Another issue, which I've posted on a number of years ago is that the track is cheaper Chinese steel which is why the SRTET has had a lot of problems and has had to grind it so regularly. It will all need to be replaces at some stage before HSR ops commence so we can expect a complete shutdown of the line at some point - which most likely will be needed as I'd expect the signalling system will be upgraded/changed.