Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[jdinasia]

So what visa do you have? I can't get one because I'm not a teacher, nor do I work for a Thai company. I work online (and before anyone says anything about this, my company is registered in Hong Kong and I do pay taxes there).

There is no visa available for me, so I have to do something else. I actually even attended the Thai lessons to start with, they were terrible lessons, absolutely no point in going as you don't learn anything.

Couldn't agree more!

What's funny is that, given the prevalence of such attitudes on here I have never once heard anyone tell me I should be kicked out for not having the "correct" visa in real life! Bunch of snobby cowards!

There appears to be an overwhelming divide between the under 50's here and over, a rather disappointing "them and us" heard mentality. It almost reminds me of the red and yellow divide, however there is no reason to wear a colour to shows one's side.

The over 50 will be (in many cases) smugly holding hands with a woman half their age, deluded that he is Thai more then Thai. Overweight fat balding person that can spout I am entitled to be here

for i have worked most of my life and am over 50. The work may be uneducated manual labour in many cases but that is besides the point in the "other sides minds".

Delusional, unapproachable and very unfriendly farangs with retirement visas, Thaier than Thai sporting Buddha necklaces and a "I Love Thailand" t-shirt really are, in my opinion, the laughing stock of Asia.

I am under 50 It is "them versus us" but not based upon age. It is based upon legitimacy. Get a visa, and follow the rules and don't try and scam your way through and I don't think anyone has an issue. On the other hand, if you are using an Ed visa but not attending school, you are not legitimately here and many people feel that people scamming their way through things is what causes further issues and tightening of the visa regulations.

Your legal Tax status in HK is not the issue. If you want to be legal in Thailand, then form the company, hire the Thais and pay taxes here. (Working here illegally is a much bigger issue than your scamming the Ed visa!)

The quality of the school you are using to help you illegally stay in Thailand isn't the issue either. Find a better school.

Over the 8+ years I have been here I have been on non-imm B's --- Non-imm-O's ---- and non-imm-Ed's (universities) I did a lot of border hops (90 days) even when I could have qualified for an extension in country. Currently I am on a non-Imm-B from 2009 and have been working in Thailand legally and my Wp is good until 2013. I pay my taxes, I get a refund, I am covered by Thai social security, I am insured (med,life,property), I have 2 vehicles and about to add another -- they are legal too.

The first years I lived here I did what it took to stay legal while finding something that matched my talents. When I was a student I studied more than 4 hours a week (Full load at Chula and another place) ...

Just because you want something does not mean you are entitled to it, particularly in a country where you are not a citizen.

You just don't get it, you are not a citizen of Thailand

[MaxYakov]

To the ones who say that after 6 years in Thailand you do not know the word fish, it is crazy. I didn't learn this word at School, you go to a restaurant, you need to know, gai (chicken) moo (porc), and pla (fish). Seriously, if someone is living in France for 6 years and do not know simple words like these, he deserved to be kicked out immediately.

Does France have some laws on the books regarding this view of non-citizen, language-proficiency requirements? And, now that I think about it, which language or languages would that be these days in France? Would the language set include Arabic? Just wondering ...

Edited July 7, 2011 by MaxYakov

[TAWP]

I readily admit I am abusing the system, I just don't see why so many others have a problem with it? How does it affect their lives?

Because every time someone gets caught abusing the system the rules get tighter meaning more people might fall out of scope of being 'legal' and those that follow all rules will have to jump through more hoops to remain legal. Kao chai mai?

[noahvail]

To the ones who say that after 6 years in Thailand you do not know the word fish, it is crazy. I didn't learn this word at School, you go to a restaurant, you need to know, gai (chicken) moo (porc), and pla (fish). Seriously, if someone is living in France for 6 years and do not know simple words like these, he deserved to be kicked out immediately.

Does France have some laws on the books regarding this view of non-citizen, language-proficiency requirements? And, now that I think about it, which language or languages would that be these days in France? Would the language set include Arabic? Just wondering?

French is the only official language in France, though there are regional languages.

[Mario2008]

Several countries in Europe have requirements for a person to learn their language and about their culture.

[badmedicine]

I readily admit I am abusing the system, I just don't see why so many others have a problem with it? How does it affect their lives?

I think you answered your own question there. Some people think that abusing the system is just, like, wrong.

I know its unfashionable to be law-abiding and to promote good citizenry (and certainly the political state of this country would seem to make such a view seem not just unfashionable but positively harmful to one's chances of success), but there's still some that think if you're not doing it within the law, you shouldn't be doing it all. Doesn't matter whether you've got good intentions or not. That's the whole point of laws — they're supposed to apply to all, without prejudice.

[jdinasia]

I readily admit I am abusing the system, I just don't see why so many others have a problem with it? How does it affect their lives?

Because every time someone gets caught abusing the system the rules get tighter meaning more people might fall out of scope of being 'legal' and those that follow all rules will have to jump through more hoops to remain legal. Kao chai mai?

Abusing both the employment and the immigration laws ... not a fact I would choose to broadcast to the world

[jamora]

Great news! But they should have done it years ago!

Even though these "students" can take care of them self, it shows clearly that they do not wish to integrate themselves. If you do not have sufficient qualifications to get a job in a foreign country and you are not retired, the least you can do is to learn the language, integrate yourself and then try to positively contribute to the society. Those who just want to be here without doing anything, should not be here!

That's bullschit ! If they can afford to live here without having to work but make a contribution to the economy and don't make a nuisance of themselves, why shouldn't they be here ?

If they're happy to deal with the disadvantages of not speaking Thai, what's the problem?

The armchair morality on this forum is astonishing sometimes and it is usually people with similar holier-than-thou attitudes who end up disillusioned with Thai society when, despite their language skills, they experience discrimination at the hands of some of the more duplicitous members of the indigenous population.

Frankly, if foreigners were given some rights and protection under Thai law, they might be more inclined to learn the language.

Because if you just stay here without doing anything but spending your savings from abroad (you do not add REAL value to the economy), you might be fine, and so will Thailand for a while. But you will be bringing in foreign capital, which will add significant purchasing power to the Thai economy (which is a good thing). But if enough foreigners do like that, one day the Thai economy might be, to some degree, depending on this increased inflow of foreign capital. Then as Thailand slowly gets more expensive, one day all these foreigners might say "Hey, life in Thailand is to expensive, lets go to the Philippines", then suddenly thailand will be missing some percent of their domestic consumption, which could prove catastrophic to the Thai economy.

In the late 90'ies, Thailand felt the effect of a sudden loss of foreign capital, and now, with good reason, they are very protective when it comes to being dependent on foreign capital (why do you think the recent financial crisis hardly reached Thailand). So you might think that one single foreigner will not matter a lot, but imagine just 100,000 foreigners spending 5-10 times more that the average Thai, that would be more than 1% of the total domestic consumption.

Your argument is in a hole; stop digging !!

So by your reasoning, as foreign retirees' income is derived from sources overseas, their capital is deemed to be contributing to inflationary pressures within Thailand. Ergo, they shouldn't be granted leave to remain, right ?

Thailand is actively encouraging foreign investment but, again, by your reasoning, they are in error. They should cease and desist lest their inept administrations boost inflation, right ?

The reason Thailand and other Asian economies were largely untouched by the financial crisis is on account of their lack of exposure to the structured products and derivatives so popular in Western banking systems. If I remember correctly, the Thai government still implemented a stimulus package to compensate for the slowdown in key export markets by encouraging domestic consumption.

No, I'm afraid that should any of the scenarios you describe come about, they'll be the direct consequence of Thai fiscal and monetary policy rather than a few farangs with enough dosh to be idle and a healthy aversion to learning a language only spoken by 60-odd million Thais and a handful of Laotians.

Unfortunately it is not a hole. Thailand both encourage foreign investment and at the same time they try to limit it. The BoT is working hard on finding the right amount of foreign investment, and they are doing a fairly good job. Sometimes they allow to much inflow of capital, and at other times they are being to protective.

And foreign investment is definitely not the same as unemployed foreigners bringing in money from abroad, which they spend here.

The main problem with foreign retirees', is not inflation, but the fact that Thailand can loose a few percent on domestic consumption if the foreigners suddenly leave Thailand.

"The reason Thailand and other Asian economies were largely untouched by the financial crisis is on account of their lack of exposure to the structured products and derivatives so popular in Western banking systems. If I remember correctly, the Thai government still implemented a stimulus package to compensate for the slowdown in key export markets by encouraging domestic consumption."

Exactly my point! Why were they not exposed to "the structured products and derivatives so popular in Western banking systems", due to certain bilateral agreements with IMF after the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis. They "forced" most ASEAN nations to change their banking system, so that they would have to keep more assets compared to outstanding loans. They also made it illegal to write foreword contracts in the fx market, unless there is an actual underlying transaction and they enforced tougher regulations on foreign ownership of THAI firms.These restrictions, along with many more, means that today, they THAI banking, corporate and real estate sectors are less dependent on the development of foreign economies, and therefor they are less affected.

And yes the BoT implemented some fiscal policies which helped the lower income groups, and kept domestic consumption up.

And you are right that "a few farangs" can not cause the scenario i described in a previous post, and that is exactly why the Thai government(s) do what they can to keep the amount of farangs fairly low.

[rkidlad]

I readily admit I am abusing the system, I just don't see why so many others have a problem with it? How does it affect their lives?

Because every time someone gets caught abusing the system the rules get tighter meaning more people might fall out of scope of being 'legal' and those that follow all rules will have to jump through more hoops to remain legal. Kao chai mai?

Abusing both the employment and the immigration laws ... not a fact I would choose to broadcast to the world

Yea, 'cos for the immigration police this would the easiest way to find people living here illegally. I don't know how else you would find them.

[whybother]

So what visa do you have? I can't get one because I'm not a teacher, nor do I work for a Thai company. I work online (and before anyone says anything about this, my company is registered in Hong Kong and I do pay taxes there).

There is no visa available for me, so I have to do something else. I actually even attended the Thai lessons to start with, they were terrible lessons, absolutely no point in going as you don't learn anything.

Maybe you should go and live in HK.

The way it works in any country is that when there is no visa available for you, you can't stay there. Try going to any western country and saying "Sorry, there is no visa available for me".

Irrelevant. In my country of birth we have millions of foreigners and I don't have a problem with them staying. I don't even care about their immigration status.

The world belongs to all of us!!

Those foreigners need to jump through hoops to get a legal status, and if they don't get it, they'll be kicked out of the country.

The world may belong to all of us, but there are laws to follow too.

I've been to several schools and none of them are very good. And more to the point, my Thai is quite good already. I don't really need to learn.

I readily admit I am abusing the system, I just don't see why so many others have a problem with it? How does it affect their lives?

Maybe all the people that have a problem are those that can't stay because they need to go through all the extra steps, all because the authorities crack down on the people abusing the system.

[MaxYakov]

Irrelevant. In my country of birth we have millions of foreigners and I don't have a problem with them staying. I don't even care about their immigration status.

The world belongs to all of us!!

Well I guess it's curtains to property rights, eh? Seems to the trend nowadays. A little 'wealth-redistribution' from the lucky to the less-lucky (aka socialism) is becoming the vogue in more and more countries.

I'll up you one, though: Everything belongs to everyone. Isn't that what you stated, in effect?

Edited July 7, 2011 by MaxYakov

[Luxius]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

ใช่ครับ ปลาเล็กกินปลาใหญ่ไม่ได้

(chai khrap, bplah lek kin bplah yai mei dai)

That's the best I can come up with, it's most probably horribly wrong. However, I only studied Thai for about a year and a half. First school I went to was troubled by an owner, who sold a car she had rented, because she was in trouble with a boyfriend in jail. She had to sell the school, so our classes were interrupted. I moved to Chiang Mai and started going to Chiang Mai University, their language school is great! Unfortunately I had to leave in the middle of the course and go home to Denmark. Still, I did learn to read basic Thai (could read books for children) after about three months of studying four hours per week. It is not that hard to learn if you really cared.

You guys who oppose this, and very loudly do so in this thread, you are the real scum, the guys who should find a legitimate way to stay in Thailand - if you really love staying in Thailand so much. When you say your money contribute a lot, I think you are the scum of the Earth!

I'm not in Thailand anymore and I miss speaking, reading and some times writing Thai. I hope to return some day and that I don't forget all I learned in the mean time.

[Asianrider]

The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped “CANCELLED” on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa,” Barry reported.

Hahaha - who said they didn't have a sense of humor?

After 6 years at 180 hours per year, the "student" should be able to cope with complex sentences like big fish eat little fish lol

[atyclb]

For me it is more time consuming, tedious and complex to remember all the imagery and associations used to learn a thai character than ... drill yourself...

Using this software alone does not get an ED visa, but if you study and focus, will get you an understanding of thai alphabet.

ท english is "tau ta han" "Ta han" means soldier , so tortoise does not really help that much.

บ bau bai mai refers to a "leaf" as in plant or tree.... U boat does not suggest what the character means, only the B sound.

atyclb, you have utterly missed the point of the 'Rapid' approach!

Firstly, there isn't anything to 'remember' as such, because it's a matter of seeing the shapes - albeit you have to do it squinty-eyed... it's much easier to remember things if they are related together in a quirky story. That's how the Greek storytellers memorized 100's of hours of epics. Why knock it if it works?

Secondly, it's completely irrelevant what the name of the letter is, except on the rare occasion you might want to spell someone's name verbally.

The point is to be able to read, pure and simple.

If you look at the letter ท and can see the shape of a tortoise then you know it's the "t" sound - not complicated. And just by looking at บ, it looks exactly like a "U", so you know the sound is "b". (Subconsiously, you see the loop on the left as the head of a figure and that instantly leads you to that odd-looking U-Boat captain... which also happens to be the class of the letter. It's sounds more complicated than it is. It all happens so quickly in your brain that you aren't aware of it.)

Knowing that the first letter is "soldier" and the second one is "leaf" doesn't help you one bit to be able to read - unless you are already Thai, that is....

Finally, I specifically said that I don't do visas. But learn to read (quickly and easily) and it will help to demonstrate that you're not completely abusing the Ed Visa regulations.

"Secondly, it's completely irrelevant what the name of the letter is, except on the rare occasion you might want to spell someone's name verbally" What !!!! What if you are blocking another car at a mall parking and the PA system announces your car license plate. It suddenly becomes very pertinent that you know the name of the thai characters on your plate.

What you suggest is tantamount to being able to read english but not know the names of letters of the alphabet.

I certainly am not "already Thai" but knowing the names of the thai alphabet is equally as important as knowing the names of the letters of any alphabet you are functioning with. Then there are rules that say certain consonants have a different sound when they are the last character in a word. Certain terminal consonants are without a sound.

In addition there are tone rules that apply to the 3 classes of consonants and you say not knowing the names of those consonants is unimportant. Then there are sanskriet containing words.

Before the dark ages, many different tribes of early people lived on the Greek peninsula. They did not have a common language. They did not have a common history. They did not use metal tools or weapons. Their tools and weapons were made of stone.

During the 400 years of the Greek dark ages, thanks to the traveling storytellers, the Greeks developed a common spoken language, a common history composed of fables, legends, and myths, and the ability to make tools and weapons out of metal. The Mycenaeans, Dorians, Ionians, Greeks, and other tribes who lived in scattered villages throughout the Greek peninsula had gradually became one people.

Greek storytellers originally had no language, or no common language. Thailand has a language already.

Only learning the sound of the letter as to be able to read some quick words I admit has charismatic and entertainment value, but also cripples the student in understanding more significant and pertinent information about the language.

I have no commercial interest or affiliation whatsoever, and in my life I have been and still am a student as I learn new things each day, have also been a G7 university lecturer, have taught languages in addition to health sciences. Nowadays am a humble student of the thai language.

Edited July 7, 2011 by atyclb

[caribbeanman]

All schools in pattaya are just visa factories. I have not met anyone from pattaya schools who can speak thai. The guys who can either studied by themselfs or went to schools like UTL in bangkok.

i think that if what the people want is to learn thai, they should get a thai gf and the books of Mrs Benjawan Becker Poomsan, an learn it every day 2 hours( at least) and after a few month, hey should be able to understand : Pla yai gin pla lek . In my experience thai is not a dificult language, when i came to thailand i went to a couple of schools but after hearing teacher's english and chinese and the prices just convienced myself that for me the only way of learning the language was studying by myself and with the help of my wife and mother -in-law, and after 1 year i was able to move freely without any help, talkin with thai people,reading simple news papers articles and whatching Thai TV, so learning thai is not so dificult as many people think just be patient and work on it and it will make your stay in Thailand much more confortable because thai people( in particular Thai ladies) love to hear foreigners speaking in thai

[rkidlad]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

[badmedicine]

After 6 years at 180 hours per year, the "student" should be able to cope with complex sentences like big fish eat little fish

Sorry to be a pedant, but grammatically ปลาใหญ่กินปลาเล็ก is a simple sentence, not a complex one!

Edited July 7, 2011 by badmedicine

[Deez]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

+1 Why would any foreigner be joyful about making it harder for someone else to stay here? I agree all visas can be "crackdown" on at anytime. Maybe you will be next. How exactly does it affect you if someone gets an easy ED visa? Idiots

[bapak]

You're either a student, or you're working -- in my opinion.

I think most countries allow students to work a certain number of hours whilst studying.

Education Visa in Australia..

Must study 20 hours per week

Must have 80% attendance otherwise report to Immigration.

Can work 20 hours a week.

[kirk0233]

So the bureaucrat just examined his visas and decided that going to school for 6 years was too much education and stamped cancelled? What lunacy and abuse of power! I am about to enter a PhD program in Thailand that allows 7 years to complete. I doubt it will take that long, but will an immigration officer without consulting the school or examining the situation arbitrarily decide I have been in school too long? Have Thais never heard of life long learning?

Are you saying that you will take 7 years to learn how to open a book and read the first sentence?

Because that is basically what the man in the OP failed to do.

I don't know how much Thai the man knew. Nor did the immigration bureaucrat. He was turning his head toward a fishtank according to the article and said the big fish eat the little fish. What would you say to that? What kind of test is that? Is this how immigration decisions should be made or does it seem whimsical at best? I agree immigrants should abid by Thai law, but is this the standard immigartion policy procedure for determining if someone is progressing in school and is following immigration law or some goofy power play by some self important ass? Does your country perform investigations in this manner? I doubt it.

[whybother]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

I know plenty here on work permits and ret. visas that do their fair share of "binge drinking, whoring and drug taking". So you're going to need to do more than throw out the illegals to get rid of this behaviour.

[caribbeanman]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Plah yai mee bpuat tong.

should be;

ฟลาตัวใหญ่กินฟลาตัวเล็ก

pla doowa yay gin pla doowa lek

"pla" not "fla" ohh i also forgot to tell you that there is not need of using "tua" because this is an idiom

Edited July 7, 2011 by caribbeanman

[jonw8uk]

<br />

<br />

<br />All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.<br /><br />Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...<br /><br /><br />You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful<br />

<br /><br />Fully agree with you here - the fact that people are doing this, is only a symptom of a problem.<br /><br />There are people, wealthy enough to fund a lifestyle WITHOUT working, or at least work over the phone/internet or run their own business and can do so from Thailand (servicing customers in their home countries), whom are under 45, or whatever the Non B retirement visa requirement for age is. Thailand does not understand, that in many western countries having a degree is not automatic - it is actually a huge challenge both financially and academically to graduate. In my country (New Zealand), only 25% of the population have a bachelors degree, 10% have a masters degree, and 4% have a PHd. We cannot buy degrees, or fake test scores unlike certain universities in Thailand have been caught doing, and some of my friends have taken advantage of to come here to NZ on.<br /><br />I have worked since I was 15 years old, and am in the top 10% of earners in my country - I have no degree. Why? My parents abandoned me at a young age, and it would cost me more to stop working and graduate, than to continue what I am doing until I am 45 and quality for the retirement visa. If it is not 45, I know it is in the Phils.<br /><br />Just like Thai doctors (another issue), stop attacking the symptoms, understand the cause and fix it. The cause is, you do not offer a long term opportunity for financially well off earners under 45 to remain in Thailand 100% legally more than the tourist visa will allow them to. Fix it?<br />

<br /><br />And exactly how is this any different to most other countries around the world? Just because you or I want to stay somewhere, doesn't mean we should be allowed purely because we want to. Give me a country which just lets ANYONE stay whenever they want for any reason? <br /><br />Seriously the requirements to keep an ED Visa are 4 hours per week. 4 measly hours. Even that is amazing. Australia, you must be studying FULL TIME, to get an education visa. <br /><br />I'm happy for the crack down, if your too lazy to go 4 hours per week to a class to get an easy VISA and learn the language, what hope do you have. <br /><br />And no I"m not retired, under 30, don't have a work permit, but would consider 4 hours of classes per week bugger all to stay here long term (and gaining a better understanding of Thai) and not have to do VISA runs.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

So what visa do you use?

I'm currently on a type O, though as I understand I may struggle to get that again.

I'm 32, have a good income (work overseas) and put a fair amount of cash into the thai economy. Now, because I'm under 50, it seems there is no long-term visa option.

When the tightening up of type O's was announced on here people cheered, now people cheer this. I studied thai for 8 months, 5 days a week. I can read and write, I'm pretty good, and whilst I wouldn't be against studying again, my gripe is what makes someone being older more viable than me for have a long term visa?

I dont agree with abusing the ED visa, but without any long-term alternative for under 50's, aside from marrying a thai, it will be abused.

I've recently bought a car here, got my thai 1 year licence, and I suspect to renew it I may need a long term visa......I hope not, otherwise my options are drive (illegally) on my UK licence or sell the car, brilliant!!

Fiesta Sport anyone?!

[rkidlad]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

I know plenty here on work permits and ret. visas that do their fair share of "binge drinking, whoring and drug taking". So you're going to need to do more than throw out the illegals to get rid of this behaviour.

Really? People living here legally pertain to these sort of activities? I've been here for 3 and a half years, and my whole way of thinking has just gone out the window.

I think I will go off and have a rethink.

[badmedicine]

+1 Why would any foreigner be joyful about making it harder for someone else to stay here? I agree all visas can be "crackdown" on at anytime. Maybe you will be next. How exactly does it affect you if someone gets an easy ED visa? Idiots

Lots of crime doesn't affect my life directly, big ones to small. It doesn't affect me personally if someone traffics children, but I wouldn't want to use that as a reason for saying it was OK. So, if you think there is some reason why breaking the visa rules is OK, you need a better argument than 'it doesn't affect your life'.

I know it's easy for all of us to find ourselves on the wrong side of the law due to a turn of chance, and of course some laws are themselves morally wrong and need to be changed. However, in judgedredd555's case neither of these seem to apply. I think anyone who cares about living in a decent society should aim not to encourage law-breaking for no other reason than as a matter of convenience for the law breaker.

Isn't this exactly the point being made against giving certain Thai politicians an amnesty right now?

Edited July 7, 2011 by badmedicine

[bapak]

.... Sure, there may be some undesirable people who abuse the system, but then there are also LOTS of undesirable people with legitimate visas (retirement, marriage, work, whatever). I just want to live here with my girlfriend - why on earth would some of you guys have a problem with me doing that? You're worse than the most xenophobic of Thais if you are against me doing that.

Not sure what is your home country but I wonder what are rules there if your girl friend want to come and live there with you???

[whybother]

Most poster's home countries do not allow people to stay there unless they have valid visas. Why would it be different here?

[atyclb]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

Read up on chemical addiction first before you make blanket statements like that.

Secondly bars greatly appreciate any customer that drinks a lot = spends lots of money. I have seen the same group of Tawandaeng German Beer patrons at a large table get drunk and physically fight each and every time I have been there and seen them. Security drags them out in a gentle way but allows all of them to return another day to get drunk, fight and ejected again and again.They consume a great deal of beer.

Whoring is inextricably connected with the other 2 for many and also funds the industry

The industry profits all levels of society including law enforcement.

[rkidlad]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

Read up on chemical addiction first before you make blanket statements like that.

Secondly bars greatly appreciate any customer that drinks a lot = spends lots of money. I have seen the same group of Tawandaeng German Beer patrons at a large table get drunk and physically fight each and every time I have been there and seen them. Security drags them out in a gentle way but allows all of them to return another day to get drunk, fight and ejected again and again.They consume a great deal of beer.

Whoring is inextricably connected with the other 2 for many and also funds the industry

The industry profits all levels of society including law enforcement.

I was being ironic you dinlow.

[SAffer]

i think us legal residents - is residents the word? Should go round bars and speak to some of these 'illegal immigrants'. You'll mostly find these people who are living here illegally in bars, whoring it up and doing drugs. We should speak to them and ask what they're doing here. Pretend we're one of them. When they admit they have an ed visa but are not studying - or are on their 15th tourist visa, we report them to the authorities.

The authorities arrest them, and we slowly but surely eradicate this degenerate behaviour of binge drinking, whoring and drug taking.

Read up on chemical addiction first before you make blanket statements like that.

Secondly bars greatly appreciate any customer that drinks a lot = spends lots of money. I have seen the same group of Tawandaeng German Beer patrons at a large table get drunk and physically fight each and every time I have been there and seen them. Security drags them out in a gentle way but allows all of them to return another day to get drunk, fight and ejected again and again.They consume a great deal of beer.

Whoring is inextricably connected with the other 2 for many and also funds the industry

The industry profits all levels of society including law enforcement.

Isn't some level of lawlessness part of the attraction to SE Asia?