What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?

[folium]

Tourist areas tend to follow the Butler model of development (attached below), with classic examples being the Spanish Costas, east coast Florida, most coastal tourist resorts in the UK etc.

Pattaya seems to have been a sleepy fishing village in the late 1960's enjoyed by a few US servicemen (including one of our very own mods), and post Vietnam began to take off through a combination of European/Oz/US entrepreneurs in the 1970's. Since then we have seen Arab investors, Asian money and more recently Russian & eastern European influences.

If the Butler model works for Pattaya it probably means that it is at that classic fork in the road location, where it faces a choice of decline or rejuvenation. Some places have pulled off this trick (Brighton England, Marbella Spain), others collapse into decline (Atlantic City NJ, Blackpool England).

Has Pattaya passed this point yet or is it heading one way or the other?

Can Pattaya be rejuvenated or is sedate decline the best option it can look forward to?

Is Pattaya the "canary in the coal mine" for Thai beach tourism in general. Namely where Pattaya goes the other beach tourist locations (eg Phuket, Samui) follow?

Serious stuff for a Sunday morning, but it's better than stagnation, hopefully.

[daftpunker]

There building the new disney world there i heard

[janverbeem]

There building the new disney world there i heard

They're not building it,but it has been there for years already.................The disneyworld for adults

[Ricardo]

It's probably been going downhill for 40 years or so, but so long as the people going there like what they find & return, no great problem IMO.

What I find disappointing, is that so many other Thai resorts seem to be following the same model, rather than evolving their own character ?

'Keep Pattaya Unique !' is my own proposal for a development-slogan.

[farangme]

From what I hear, Pattaya construction is going off. New injections of capital and people coming from newly emerging economies. A sort of rebirth. As for places like Atlantic City, once air fare came to the masses, why would anyone go there when they can go to a real beach? My opinion is that TL will continue to grow as a tourist destination as long as the unique 'attractions' exist. Once/if the economy provides these Thais with better alternative opportunities, and these attractions are not available, fewer people will be flying half way around the globe for Thai food and beaches.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[folium]

.

What I find disappointing, is that so many other Thai resorts seem to be following the same model, rather than evolving their own character ?

So what different approach/model could Phuket, Samui etc follow, or is it too late for them already?

Can any, has any, beach resort developed without eventually destroying the reason for its initial success (and I don't include small, mega-expensive resorts, eg Branson's Necker Island, pre the recent fire)?

[Gone]

Many places jus South of Pattaya are now developing such as the obvious Jomtien and then more south like Na Jomtien, Bang san and all the way down the coast to Rayong but they all boast one thing in common: "Only 15 minutes to Pattaya."

[Felt 35]

I don`t see any future problem down in the valley to either Pattaya, Phuket or Samui. Now in between there have been some gruff, but a couple of decades more and 95% of tourist will want it much more exploited.

[morphic]

My guess is it will go into decline. Pattaya always scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Westerners have declined in number but were replaced by cheap package tourists from Russia, India and China. After the last set get tired of the greed/aggression/corruption/lies/dishonesty/nastiness/ugliness/racism there will be nowhere else to turn to. maybe we shiould view the jet ski scam as the example that Pattaya follows as a whole. Wave after wave of naive groups fall for it and are abused,beaten and robbed. The scam can only work as long as there are more ignorant suckers. But in the end the world is too small a place for it to last forever.

In the beginning there were lots of Western tourists, then they were all Russians and Indians, next what? Give it a another few years and the Thai authorites will be scratching their stupid heads wondering why Pattaya tourists revenue is in decline. But since the favourite pastime for locals is the one of wallowing in ignorance and denial, my bet is they will never understand why.

As for myself I rarely visit Thailand, I now prefer Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and other places. In the ened others will reach the same conclusion, which is that the Thai smile is empty. the cheerfulness and value have gone, what is left is ugly, aggressive and greedy.

[lonewolf99]

the Thai smile is empty - what is left is ugly aggressive and greedy....

Sadly I am starting to think along the same lines...I am sure the glass half full ex-pats will jump to defend their home but on the whole it is also the way of the world.

Everyone is out to make a fast buck....exploitation is the future.

I am sure many of you have seen an advert for a new phone tablet ..it shows a picture of a beautiful beach, and then the big hotel in Dubai. The phone operator freezes the pictures and merges them together...and he has his dream...the vast majority of the world has a nightmare...

Billions starve and thousands get their bit of cloistered paradise...at what cost...once a sleepy fishing village...now filth, degradation, poverty, crime and pollution....where is the Pattaya beach now ? gone. Where to go and exploit next. ?

Burma ? soon it will be the same..and a "Burma Visa" web site will have threads like this in 20 years time...paradise lost...

[FarangBuddha]

Many places jus South of Pattaya are now developing such as the obvious Jomtien and then more south like Na Jomtien, Bang san and all the way down the coast to Rayong but they all boast one thing in common: "Only 15 minutes to Pattaya."

Even if they're 45 minutes away...and of course that's one-way

[FarangBuddha]

My guess is it will go into decline. Pattaya always scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Westerners have declined in number but were replaced by cheap package tourists from Russia, India and China.

Pattaya could feed off the Chinese and Indian package tourist markets for the next 40 years so not much to worry about for the Thai/foreign investers who target products and services for those markets. Now, whether Western visitors/expats will be interested in visiting/living in such a place is another question to be answered.

[StreetCowboy]

the Thai smile is empty - what is left is ugly aggressive and greedy....

Sadly I am starting to think along the same lines...I am sure the glass half full ex-pats will jump to defend their home but on the whole it is also the way of the world.

Everyone is out to make a fast buck....exploitation is the future.

I am sure many of you have seen an advert for a new phone tablet ..it shows a picture of a beautiful beach, and then the big hotel in Dubai. The phone operator freezes the pictures and merges them together...and he has his dream...the vast majority of the world has a nightmare...

Billions starve and thousands get their bit of cloistered paradise...at what cost...once a sleepy fishing village...now filth, degradation, poverty, crime and pollution....where is the Pattaya beach now ? gone. Where to go and exploit next. ?

Burma ? soon it will be the same..and a "Burma Visa" web site will have threads like this in 20 years time...paradise lost...

I think there's more folks enjoy Pattaya now than before.

If you're that bothered, you could always move to Harris; unspoilt white sandy beaches, great surf, quiet, friendly villages; probably about the same travel time from London...

Personally, I'm happy that people in Pattaya and elsewhere get a chance to share in the dream of development; and if they do not, then then they can continue as subsistence farmers or fishermen without pickup trucks or televisions or immunisation. Most people make quite a consistent choice, although people who have been born into a developed and prosperous environment can sometimes have the best of both worlds, "living the good life" on the land, while still being able to afford their civilised amenities. I suppose we all aspire to retire to a life of luxury in our own homeland - or better still, someone else's homeland where our inherited prosperity buys more than our fair share - but to get there, we need to grind our grist in the mill..

SC

Edit: Or what about Seton Carew, or Dungeness? Two lovely villages - Seton Carew slightly the larger and livelier, I would say, Dungeness more 'quaintly weird', and both conveniently handy for elderly nuclear power stations...

[craigt3365]

Pattaya is changing for sure. The makeup of the current group of tourists is more couples oriented. I've recently been walking the beaches, from Bang Saray all the way to Nakula, and I'm amazed at the number of couples. Sure, most are Russian, but they are not interested in sitting in a beer bar in Soi Buakow. They are on the beach and doing some shopping. Central Festival was PACKED yesterday. I was amazed at how many people were in there.

Wifey has been doing driving lessons recently on Pattaya Klang. They are 2 hour lessons, so I've started walking around Central Pattaya. Lots of beer bars closed, for sale, etc. And lots of new developments...going up where beer bars use to be.

I think Pattaya is starting to go a bit "upscale". But the jury is still out if they can reverse the mis-management of the past 20 years. Same with Samui and Phuket. Places that were not too bad 10-15 years ago or so, but have really take a dive since then. Mass tourism is not a good thing for the environment. Especially when you cater to the lower end of the tourist spectrum. South of Spain ring a bell? Red sea area of Egypt?

[Ricardo]

What I find disappointing, is that so many other Thai resorts seem to be following the same model, rather than evolving their own character ?

So what different approach/model could Phuket, Samui etc follow, or is it too late for them already?

Can any, has any, beach resort developed without eventually destroying the reason for its initial success (and I don't include small, mega-expensive resorts, eg Branson's Necker Island, pre the recent fire)?

Samui was a great place, in its backpacker-days IMO. Wouldn't really want to go there now. Perhaps some of the smaller islands might want to take that niche ?

Phuket has surely cornered-the-market in hi-specification luxury-villas for the seriously-rich, and is the Asian Hub-of-Taxi-Rip-offs ?

But I guess that I'm more irritated, by the way they all seem to have Elephant-Camps/Monkey-Shows/Orchid-Farms/Snake-Shows/Botanical-Gardens/Quad-Bike-Tours/Bungy-Jumps, the whole Thailand-experience is getting very homogenised and samey, You used to need to come up to Chiang Mai for much of that !

Being positive, Hat-Yai remains a fun-and-frolics food-food-food shopping-experience place for me, but very-few farang-tourists get there, it's still firmly aimed at the Malaysian/Singaporean market.

All purely one person's opinion, of course, and I'm sure that the Russians are delighted to get to visit Pattaya's tropical-beaches, they'll be followed by the urban-Chinese in their millions so Pattaya's future seems secure.

[Orac]

Burma ? soon it will be the same..and a "Burma Visa" web site will have threads like this in 20 years time...paradise lost...

Might be worth getting in early on it - only 21 members so far and 2 posts. A strikingly familiar set of sub-forums as well!

[Ulysses G.]

Pattaya rejuvenated itself after the 1997 financial crisis. They really cleaned the place up and dropped their prices considerably.

As far as the surrounding countries being any less out-for-a-buck than Thailand, I've spent a fair amount of time in every one but Burma and do not see it.

If you look at the expat forums in Vietnam and Cambodia, they are complaining about the same things as here and saying how much better Thailand is. Malaysia might have its good points, but you get less for your money and the same goes double for Singapore.

[lonewolf99]

Aye Streetcowboy....I ken awe aboot Scottish Beaches - stunning empty windswept and freezing bloody cauld.......nae danger o' Dubai style Hotels there pal...

[toenail]

From the distance,Pattaya looks ultra-modern with all the new (30 or so) condo projects mushrooming all over the place; plus the new 5 star hotels and of course Central Festival. But with a magnifiying glass, the city is already deteriorating quickly with the lack of maintaining infrastructure and pre-planning for the tourist and building boom. Weekend traffic is grid lock, fumes from speeding or idling busses and cars pollutes the air; the beach erosion is a mess, a simple task such as maintaining the Beach Road promenade to a pristine walkway can't even be bothered. And I wonder if the city has thought of all the sewage that is produces from all of the new hotels and apartment towers? Pattaya collects a lot of money from its tax base but very little goes into taking care of its infrastructure. The city seems to get excited over festival concerts and night markets than handling the REAL ISSUES of a metropolis.

[kropotkin]

Pattaya - a beach resort?

Trolling?

Idiotic?

Cynical?

[chops]

I'm guessing farang will continue to move eastwards and out of Pattaya. Ever been to WS recently? Hardly any farang around these days.

What I find odd is these people from developing countries seem to have more money than us farang. Times I guess they're a changing..

[craigt3365]

I'm guessing farang will continue to move eastwards and out of Pattaya. Ever been to WS recently? Hardly any farang around these days.

What I find odd is these people from developing countries seem to have more money than us farang. Times I guess they're a changing..

Some do, most don't. Many are on packaged holidays with charter flights into Utapao.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

My guess is it will go into decline. Pattaya always scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Westerners have declined in number but were replaced by cheap package tourists from Russia, India and China. After the last set get tired of the greed/aggression/corruption/lies/dishonesty/nastiness/ugliness/racism there will be nowhere else to turn to. maybe we shiould view the jet ski scam as the example that Pattaya follows as a whole. Wave after wave of naive groups fall for it and are abused,beaten and robbed. The scam can only work as long as there are more ignorant suckers. But in the end the world is too small a place for it to last forever.

In the beginning there were lots of Western tourists, then they were all Russians and Indians, next what? Give it a another few years and the Thai authorites will be scratching their stupid heads wondering why Pattaya tourists revenue is in decline. But since the favourite pastime for locals is the one of wallowing in ignorance and denial, my bet is they will never understand why.

As for myself I rarely visit Thailand, I now prefer Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and other places. In the ened others will reach the same conclusion, which is that the Thai smile is empty. the cheerfulness and value have gone, what is left is ugly, aggressive and greedy.

Yes, it really has been in decline for at least ten years now. Yes, some new condos have gone up, but so what? Given the massive advertising, they are clearly desperate for customers. There are too many people....too much pollution (getting terrible now...the places in unhealthy in my view)....too many undesirable tourists....too many crimes/cams, etc.

[LennyW]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

[Tolley]

Considering all the revenue that Pattaya drags in you would think they could put a small portion of it towards improving the infrastructure.

The roads, sewers, beach are all a disgrace.

I cant predict what the future is for Pattaya but it would be nice if it was a little bit cleaner!

[LennyW]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Your web page throws your objectivity in to question my friend.

Just be honest, and tell people that you are a real estate guy, and stop casting aspersions upon people who see things differently than you!

The difference is that i can see past beach road and walking street and can appreciate the bigger picture of what Pattaya has to offer!!

[craigt3365]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Your web page throws your objectivity in to question my friend.

Just be honest, and tell people that you are a real estate guy, and stop casting aspersions upon people who see things differently than you!

He's never hidden that fact from anybody. Pattaya has many warts, that for sure, but I do agree with LennyW. I really don't like Central Pattaya at all. But I don't live there. Outside the main part of town, living is quite nice. I haven't been to Walking Street in a looooong time. Never been to Buakow, other than a walk I did recently while waiting for wifey. Probably my last visit there.

Did a walk around Pratumnak today. Has some nice places and some tough sights. Trash needs to be cleaned up, but that walk down Dongtan Beach at 8am today was quite nice.

[manarak]

Blackpool... LOL.

The decline of the fun places in the old countries has a lot to do with the fact that these places aren't fun anymore and with prices.

Pattaya has neither of these problems, although it became pricier for western guests due to exchange rate and state of the economy.

So I'm with LennyW on this one. As of yet, there has been no significant phase of decline.

Businesses will disappear beause they don't meet the visitor's needs anymore (maybe gogos?) others will take their place (hmmmm what are the main types of fun places in China or India?).

Pattaya will always adapt, as long as the flow of visitors is maintained by the availability of girls from poor families.

[stailmanki]

OP, Quote: "Pattaya seems to have been a sleepy fishing village in the late 1960's enjoyed by a few US servicemen (including one of our very own mods), and post Vietnam began to take off through a combination of European/Oz/US entrepreneurs in the 1970's. Since then we have seen Arab investors, Asian money and more recently Russian & eastern European influences."

There are still many of us military / oil / mine workers who take R&R in Pattaya.We are the bread and butter for many businesses here.Pattaya is like paradise compared to the sort of places were we are posted to or choose to work.(Afganistan/ Saudi/Africa/P.N.G &c) I have been coming here on R&R for 30 years & seen many changes.Pattaya still offers enough R&R facilities to make it attractive.The key for many of us is quick & easy access to the airport. Best of all : when I first came here I was in my early 20s & my girl was also early 20s , now I'm early 50s & she's Still in her early 20s , where else can you find girls that age as well as that huh ? must be all those creams &c she uses.

As for me personally I'm glad that there are fewer of those shirtless tattooed soccer yobs that used to infect the place in large numbers & also happy that the numbers Euro trash in general seems to have diminished.I much prefer the scowling Russians ,howling Chinese & aromatic Middle Easterners , so for me that is a positive change. I suppose it's mainly due to the poor value of the Euro/GBP aganist the Thai Baht. Sorry for the pensioners who are more or less trapped here on dwindling incomes.

My conclusion: Pattaya still offers sailors on leave a good time at a reasonable price like it has always done & will continue to do so into the future.The new visitors are not taking anything away from guys like me & the slowly improving infrastructure is a bonus.Wish they would clean up the beaches.

[happyaussie]

Just like the old adage "I remember when". Guess what, things change, and Pattaya is no different. The mix of nationalities has definitely changed, but maybe this isn't a bad thing. And the level of development is impressive. There is still the sleazy side, which is good. But now there are other choices.