UK pensions

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Any such court record would be published and reported, I've never seen one, so it didn't happen, or it wasn't a pension increase offense.

 

I must say some time ago i did look it up when i was a bit bored and have never found anything at all about any court case ever regarding overpayments , and as far as i know they cant stop your pension permanantly so as to leave you destitute , can they?

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I must say some time ago i did look it up when i was a bit bored and have never found anything at all about any court case ever regarding overpayments , and as far as i know they cant stop your pension permanantly so as to leave you destitute , can they?

Normally when I ask for a  report on a court case they direct me to a newspaper report about benefit fraud, usually in Spain.

So nothing to do with pension increases, they seem to expect me not to actually read the link.

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Normally when I ask for a  report on a court case they direct me to a newspaper report about benefit fraud, usually in Spain.

So nothing to do with pension increases.

Yes that was what came up ,just benefit fraud ,

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, transam said:

One I know got a fine of 1000 quid plus pay back cash he should not have received, one did not get fined because he had a medical problem that was proven, bit of a story to that. The third ended back in the UK and l don't know the outcome, we think perhaps grassed up..

I am not having a go or anything just interested,but if he was not taken to court haw did they know for sure how long he had been in Thailand , ? unless he was an honest chap and told them ,he could have said anything.

[Golden Triangle]

let me just clear up some confusion, I renewed my passport from LoS, I used an agency in Pattaya as I was unable (and unwilling ) to travel to BKK and the passport people in Trendy Tower, the agent in Pattaya had the renewal forms I supplied 2 photos and signed the form, that was all I had to do, they took a copy of my Thai driving licence and used the address attached to that.

 

When they take your passport and application forms to BKK the nice people in Trendy Tower photocopy every page of your passport and return it as you have to keep it in LoS in case anyone in authority wants to see it.

 

I hope that clears up any issues for those who don't know. 

[altcar bob]

Just now, MaeJoMTB said:

Normally when I ask for a  report on a court case they direct me to a newspaper report about benefit fraud, usually in Spain.

So nothing to do with pension increases.

Cannot stop it,can not punish you,just goes on and on, can freeze it if stupid enough to inform...that's about it, Listening to the likes of clueless Farmer Giles will be a major disadvantage  Jealousy rules the day

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

let me just clear up some confusion, I renewed my passport from LoS, I used an agency in Pattaya as I was unable (and unwilling ) to travel to BKK and the passport people in Trendy Tower, the agent in Pattaya had the renewal forms I supplied 2 photos and signed the form, that was all I had to do, they took a copy of my Thai driving licence and used the address attached to that.

 

When they take your passport and application forms to BKK the nice people in Trendy Tower photocopy every page of your passport and return it as you have to keep it in LoS in case anyone in authority wants to see it.

 

I hope that clears up any issues for those who don't know. 

The agent in Pats I used for an old chap I know did ALL the photo coping of passport pages for us..

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Cannot stop it,can not punish you,just goes on and on, can freeze it if stupid enough to inform...that's about it, Listening to the likes of clueless Farmer Giles will be a major disadvantage  Jealousy rules the day

I think you're being a little unfair.

Some people live in fear of their government and their authorities, this is a well recorded feature of people reaching old age.

I don't wish to castigate such people, but I may question their unfounded and irrational fears.

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[transam]

5 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I am not having a go or anything just interested,but if he was not taken to court haw did they know for sure how long he had been in Thailand , ? unless he was an honest chap and told them ,he could have said anything.

Weeell, I can only say what happened to my chum, he told me they told HIM how long he had been over paid.

[ubonjoe]

I just removed 22 baiting and bickering posts plus a few replies to them. Time to end it or formal warnings will be given.

[transam]

34 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I think you're being a little unfair.

Some people live in fear of their government and their authorities, this is a well recorded feature of people reaching old age.

I don't wish to castigate such people, but I may question their unfounded and irrational fears.

I would suggest "knowingly" fiddling the UK benefit system is a rational fear regardless of age..

[MaeJoMTB]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

I would suggest "knowingly" fiddling the UK benefit system is a rational fear regardless of age..

A benefit is something given free of charge.

My OAP cost me 20% of my wages for 30 years, I paid for it, it's my money.

If 'they' would like to return my employee and employers contributions, then we can consider it a benefit.

 

I have no problem with you declaring yourself as living in Thailand.

I don't live in Thailand, I'm just here on a rather long holiday, and will probably return to the UK before I'm 66 anyway, so my son can attend free UK high school, free UK university (low income single parent family), have free housing (LiSPF) and pass on his UK citizenship to his children. Not quite sure what will happen to the Thai wife ..... but that's another topic.

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[altcar bob]

34 minutes ago, transam said:

I would suggest "knowingly" fiddling the UK benefit system is a rational fear regardless of age..

Obviously, I would suggest anyone 'fiddling 'the benefits system needs to be in fear, regardless of age, but I suggest a no-punishment  OLD AGE PENSION ie no stoppage, no pay-back, just frozen when awareness was recently noted,.... is in itself a declaration of non-intent by UK Govt.

 

  However, I do also suggest once on a frozen pension there is no way back, ie by, remaining as status quo  Voice ID and infrequent call back to ascertain location will be automated

Edited February 23, 2018 by altcar bob

[transam]

2 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Obviously, I would suggest anyone 'fiddling 'the benefits system needs to be in fear, regardless of age, but I suggest a no-punishment ie no stoppage, no pay-back, just frozen when awareness was noted,.... is in itself a declaration of non-intent by UK Govt.

 

  However, I do also suggest once on a frozen pension there is no way back, ie by, remaining as status quo  Voice ID and infrequent call back to ascertain location will be automated

That is your criteria to cover you then...?

 

You obviously don't know that if a UK expat pensioner in LOS goes for a "holiday" to a country that has UK pension increases he can tell the pension folk and they will upgrade his pension whilst there..

[MaeJoMTB]

14 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

However, I do also suggest once on a frozen pension there is no way back, ie by, remaining as status quo  Voice ID and infrequent call back to ascertain location will be automated

$6 a month for a UK phone number (CallHippo).

You can answer it anywhere in the world ....... the magic of SIP/VoIP

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[altcar bob]

Just now, MaeJoMTB said:

$6 a month for a UK phone number (CallHippo).

You can answer it anywhere in the world ....... the magic of SIP/VoIP

Yes I know but some  (maybe) a bit dim-witted to know.  Best if they do not know, more money to spend

[altcar bob]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

That is your criteria to cover you then...?

 

You obviously don't know that if a UK expat pensioner in LOS goes for a "holiday" to a country that has UK pension increases he can tell the pension folk and they will upgrade his pension whilst there..

Is this directed at me?   Thought we had thrashed this to death.  I need not tell them anything because as stated, no punishment/ no pack drill.no nothing.   Only those frozen will have the problem  lol

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

It's an interesting discussion    ....... "where you live" ..... but I can find no legal definition for the term.

The term is 'domicile'.

domicile

n. the place where a person has his/her permanent principal home to which he/she returns or intends to return. 

 

It should be noted that residency and domicile  are not the same, you can be a UK resident and domiciled abroad.

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, transam said:

I would suggest "knowingly" fiddling the UK benefit system is a rational fear regardless of age..

 

 

 

Without intending  to be pedantic, the state pension is an entitlement (based on NICs) not a benefit.

 

 

I have yet to see anyone penalized, let alone taken to court, for not telling the DWP that they were resident in Thailand.

[MaeJoMTB]

43 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The term is 'domicile'.

domicile

n. the place where a person has his/her permanent principal home to which he/she returns or intends to return. 

 

It should be noted that residency and domicile  are not the same, you can be a UK resident and domiciled abroad.

Then you would need to define 'permanent principal home' which would be 'a place you have the permanent right to reside'

Only one such place fits that definition for me ... the UK.

I have no permission to live in any other country for longer than 90 days. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

My bank account is in the UK, I have a UK address - my daughters, the tax man, my ex employer - Civil service, the MoD from my Army days and National savings - ERNIE, my credit cards, all have that address, so I could say I live in the UK , but I am not resident there, and as my old passport would show I have been out of the UK for 7 years and being resident in the UK is the main requirement I would believe. I don't know how much the State Pension increases by annually but I really don't think it's worth the risk just for a couple of quid a week.  

It’s Not just a couple of quid a week. I’ve just recently returned to live in the U.K. 

and my pension has increased by £ 127 a month, or if you like by £1524 a year.

Just think how much the government is saving, by not paying an increase to 100,000’s  of paid up pensioners in Australia,N.Z. Canada and the rest. But rest assured that saved money is being put to good use, in the payment of benefits Etc to legal immigrants from the E.U. And non legal immigrants from elsewhere.

Edited February 23, 2018 by nontabury

[JoePai]

49 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

Without intending  to be pedantic, the state pension is an entitlement (based on NICs) not a benefit.

 

 

I have yet to see anyone penalized, let alone taken to court, for not telling the DWP that they were resident in Thailand.

Sorry to upset the party but I know of 2 Brits in Pattaya who 'were found out' and had to replay

[altcar bob]

7 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Sorry to upset the party but I know of 2 Brits in Pattaya who 'were found out' and had to replay

Elaboration please, if you 'know 2 brits found out' then perhaps the party could; commence, would be good to get some details

[Golden Triangle]

34 minutes ago, nontabury said:

It’s Not just a couple of quid a week. I’ve just recently returned to live in the U.K. 

and my pension has increased by £ 127 a month, or if you like by £1524 a year.

Just think how much the government is saving, by not paying an increase to 100,000’s  of paid up pensioners in Australia,N.Z. Canada and the rest. But rest assured that saved money is being put to good use, in the payment of benefits Etc to legal immigrants from the E.U. And non legal immigrants from elsewhere.

That's a fair comment but how long had you been away from the UK ? if it's a number of years I can understand it. 

 

I have a mate living here, up North, he's been living here for about 10 years, he has been getting his pension paid into his UK bank but never had an increase because he told DWP that he was living here, I can imagine that if he went back and got it up rated it might be similar to your uplift.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Golden Triangle

[i claudius]

Elaboration please, if you 'know 2 brits found out' then perhaps the party could; commence, would be good to get some details

I was just about to ask that.how were they caught and were they extradited to face a court? How did the dwp know how long they had been here?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, i claudius said:

I was just about to ask that.how were they caught and were they extradited to face a court? How did the dwp know how long they had been here?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Google search produces nothing but benefits fraud, and SIPP fraud.

Nothing at all about Pensioners living overseas falsely claiming pension increases.

Not that anyone 'claims' their pension increase, DWP just pay it. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[nontabury]

28 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Sorry to upset the party but I know of 2 Brits in Pattaya who 'were found out' and had to replay

Perhaps they volunteered to repay the amount they had over claimed. If they had refused to pay back those over payments, then they would have been prosecuted.

But as far as we are aware, the U.K government has never attempted to prosecute those individuals, I wonder why?

Edited February 23, 2018 by nontabury

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Perhaps they volunteered to repay the amount they had over claimed. If they had refused to pay back those over payments, then they would have been prosecuted.

But as far as we are aware, the U.K government has never attempted to prosecute those individuals I wonder why?

They don't need to instigate court proceedings to get their money back. They simply treat it as an over payment and recover the overpaid amount from future pension payments

[Jip99]

30 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Sorry to upset the party but I know of 2 Brits in Pattaya who 'were found out' and had to replay

 

No party pooper..... repaying isn’t a penalty.

 

 

I know 6 who didn’t ?

 

 

How did DWP prove the ‘start dats’ for freezing the pension?

 

Three of the six that I am aware of are still unfrozen... 2 others were caught up with life certificates and one just ‘came clean’ after 6 years - the latter 3 simply had their pensions frozen at the point of contact.

 

Their long holidays became domicility. 

 

 

 

 

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

They don't need to instigate court proceedings to get their money back. They simply treat it as an over payment and recover the overpaid amount from future pension payments

A couple known to me took the matter to court in UK & had a very sympathetic judge. I can't remember exact details of the outcome but it was more or less as per your post and didn't brake the bank (DWP cannot render anyone destitute!). They're both fully resident again now ie full pensions plus full access to NHS etc.

Edited February 23, 2018 by evadgib