England'S Official 2012 Euro Discussion Thread

[rixalex]

It was a win! Not pretty in fact horrible, but worth remembering this was a do or die game for the host nation Ukraine in front of home fans.

I think they scored but it was too close to tell. Not so impressed with Milner, and Young again, but absolute top marks to Gerrard.

We'll need to play a heck of a lot better next game. There were signs we can do just that.

I disagree. You will get stuffed by Italy. They are a far smarter side than Ukraine.

Far smarter? Italy is to me, much like England, in one of those period's in its history in which the team is remarkably average. Any success that comes its way, much like England, will be the product of some gritty defending and some good fortune... and if i know the Italians, some cheating for good measure.

I really don't think there is much to choose between the two teams. Either team could get stuffed by the other on a given day.

(bizarre to think back to my younger naive love thy neighbour days when i cheered on other British nations in these sorts of competitions.)

[mommysboy]

It was a win! Not pretty in fact horrible, but worth remembering this was a do or die game for the host nation Ukraine in front of home fans.

I think they scored but it was too close to tell. Not so impressed with Milner, and Young again, but absolute top marks to Gerrard.

We'll need to play a heck of a lot better next game. There were signs we can do just that.

I disagree. You will get stuffed by Italy. They are a far smarter side than Ukraine.

Disagree with what?

[MrMuddle]

Is there any point in having extra officials when they position themselves so that they can't see properly ?

The Ukraine 'goal" was over the line, judging from the replays from the left - opposite to where the official was standing - very hard to tell from the normal camera viewpoint, impossible to tell from the right view, due to Terrys socks and the ball being the same colour.

Goal line technology should have been introduced after the fiascos at the last world cup, forget Blatter's idiotic stance of the same game for everyone, this tournament has seen countless millions invested by the Ukraine, only to see them cheated.

Was Rooney's goal the luckiest ever scored ? I've been watching football for almost fifty years and I can't remember a jammier one than that - perhaps Uncle Roy has that vital element of the rub of the green. England were lucky, can't recall a single player having a good game.

The ball was probably just over, but when it is as close as that, no matter how well positioned the official is, the decision is never going to be a matter of certainty. If it doesn't get given, you count yourself a bit unlucky sure, but it's hardly the yard over the line daylight robbery incident we have seen before and ourselves been the victim of.

As for your bitterness concerning Rooney's goal, what a nonsense. As if out of sportsmanship, Rooney should have let the ball pass his head for fear of the shame of scoring a sitter. It's what a strikers job is. To be ready for opportunities that come out of the blue like that. And he took it. He didn't cheat. Ukraine screwed up, he took advantage. Had that been England's defence screwing up, would you be bitter about the striker who took his chance, or would you be deriding England's crap defenders and goalie?

Bitterness? <deleted> ? Been "celebrating"?

Where did I accuse Rooney of cheating ? And one thing I would never accuse Rooney of is sportsmanship, I'd be amazed if he can even spell the word.

Doesn't alter the fact that due to Blatter's refusal to use the technology that's available, yet another tournament has been degraded.

[smokie36]

It was a win! Not pretty in fact horrible, but worth remembering this was a do or die game for the host nation Ukraine in front of home fans.

I think they scored but it was too close to tell. Not so impressed with Milner, and Young again, but absolute top marks to Gerrard.

We'll need to play a heck of a lot better next game. There were signs we can do just that.

I disagree. You will get stuffed by Italy. They are a far smarter side than Ukraine.

Far smarter? Italy is to me, much like England, in one of those period's in its history in which the team is remarkably average. Any success that comes its way, much like England, will be the product of some gritty defending and some good fortune... and if i know the Italians, some cheating for good measure.

I really don't think there is much to choose between the two teams. Either team could get stuffed by the other on a given day.

(bizarre to think back to my younger naive love thy neighbour days when i cheered on other British nations in these sorts of competitions.)

You should read what I've written elsewhere rix....you do realise I am only pulling your nation's chain don't you?

[salty]

England were poor tonight I thought. But I would not rule them out against Italy. Rooney looked like someone who needed a game. Should be better in 1/4 final. Agree re extra officials. Generally speaking absolutely useless. He was standing next to it and the ball was definitely over the line.

[carmine]

I cant see us standing much of a chance against either Spain or Germany myself. Our performance against Sweden wasnt that convincing. What I would like to see is that we go out and try and win the Group against Ukraine. Then I think we have every opportunity in the quarters against either Croatia or Italy.

Rooney should play with Welbeck upfront (Carroll being a potential impact sub). The only change to possibly consider is Young but I would probably count on him regaining his form as the alternatives are hardly inspiring.

I think Italy will bury England easily as well as the two you mention. Just my honest opinion.

Fair enough mate but its obviously not because of anything you've seen from Italy is it because they've done nothing to impress have they.

Is it just because they are Italien and you are ,well Scotish and don't want to envisage the prospect of an England win?

Calm yourself, they is little or no chance of England winning the tournament........we will have to play Deutchland in the semis won't we.

[carmine]

It was a win! Not pretty in fact horrible, but worth remembering this was a do or die game for the host nation Ukraine in front of home fans.

I think they scored but it was too close to tell. Not so impressed with Milner, and Young again, but absolute top marks to Gerrard.

We'll need to play a heck of a lot better next game. There were signs we can do just that.

I disagree. You will get stuffed by Italy. They are a far smarter side than Ukraine.

No they are not. They are possibly the worst Italien team in twenty years, with no more flair or ability than England but keep kidding yourself.

If they are as good as you maintain tell me why the italiens have no more expectation than the english?

[LucidLucifer]

He was standing next to it and the ball was definitely over the line.

I didn't see anything.....

[nev]

Well that first half England was very average but as was stated before i think it was the game plan to let them come on us then when they tire hit them on the break, young and milner very average again

Gerrard was Englands stand out player for me, and Cole had a good game too.

Quarter finalist is not a bad effort seeing the injuries that we had the start of the tournament, there is no reason we cannot beat Italy, Rooney will be better now he has one game under his belt.

Looking forward to sunday now just hope it does not go to penalties.

[carmine]

A wins a win. This could become a cliche for Hodgson's England.

Gerrard excellent again. Absolute standout. But how long must we persevere with Milner. He is not an international standard player.

[SantiSuk]

A wins a win. This could become a cliche for Hodgson's England.

Gerrard excellent again. Absolute standout. But how long must we persevere with Milner. He is not an international standard player.

Because Walcott is only worth half a game too!

The epitome of Gerrards excellence was when Milner or Johnson gave up the ball high in the Ukraine half and the other one of those two had gone on holiday somewhere. Gerrard, the guy we had doubts about whether he had 3 games in 12 days in him, raced back from the penalty spot to catch the Ukraine left winger - he got to him before he'd reached half way into England's half. Special - and so was the look he fired, presumably at one of those other two!

Edited June 20, 2012 by SantiSuk

[carmine]

A wins a win. This could become a cliche for Hodgson's England.

Gerrard excellent again. Absolute standout. But how long must we persevere with Milner. He is not an international standard player.

Because Walcott is only worth half a game too!

Fair point!! Then why not give 45 mins the the Ox......

[LucidLucifer]

A wins a win. This could become a cliche for Hodgson's England.

Gerrard excellent again. Absolute standout. But how long must we persevere with Milner. He is not an international standard player.

Because Walcott is only worth half a game too!

Fair point!! Then why not give 45 mins the the Ox......

I think we need to. We have a great chance of beating Italy but if we're going to progress further than that, we need some inspiration from somewhere. Touch wood Rooney will provide some, but we need more, and it isn't going to come from Milner.

It's time to take a measured gamble, we've got out of the group, and the stage is now set for him to come in and make an impact.....god willing

Edited June 20, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[rixalex]

Is there any point in having extra officials when they position themselves so that they can't see properly ?

The Ukraine 'goal" was over the line, judging from the replays from the left - opposite to where the official was standing - very hard to tell from the normal camera viewpoint, impossible to tell from the right view, due to Terrys socks and the ball being the same colour.

Goal line technology should have been introduced after the fiascos at the last world cup, forget Blatter's idiotic stance of the same game for everyone, this tournament has seen countless millions invested by the Ukraine, only to see them cheated.

Was Rooney's goal the luckiest ever scored ? I've been watching football for almost fifty years and I can't remember a jammier one than that - perhaps Uncle Roy has that vital element of the rub of the green. England were lucky, can't recall a single player having a good game.

The ball was probably just over, but when it is as close as that, no matter how well positioned the official is, the decision is never going to be a matter of certainty. If it doesn't get given, you count yourself a bit unlucky sure, but it's hardly the yard over the line daylight robbery incident we have seen before and ourselves been the victim of.

As for your bitterness concerning Rooney's goal, what a nonsense. As if out of sportsmanship, Rooney should have let the ball pass his head for fear of the shame of scoring a sitter. It's what a strikers job is. To be ready for opportunities that come out of the blue like that. And he took it. He didn't cheat. Ukraine screwed up, he took advantage. Had that been England's defence screwing up, would you be bitter about the striker who took his chance, or would you be deriding England's crap defenders and goalie?

Bitterness? <deleted> ? Been "celebrating"?

Where did I accuse Rooney of cheating ? And one thing I would never accuse Rooney of is sportsmanship, I'd be amazed if he can even spell the word.

Doesn't alter the fact that due to Blatter's refusal to use the technology that's available, yet another tournament has been degraded.

I mentioned the fact that he hadn't cheated in scoring his goal, not because that was what you accused him of, but to make the point that it was a clean goal and whilst it may have been a sitter, he still needed to be in the right place and prepared to react from the ball having gone through a defenders legs, and then through the grasp of the goalie. Chances of this nature are often missed by the player not running that extra yard as they simply assume its the keepers ball, but rather than give credit to the scorer and have a go at the poor defence that allowed it - as you (and i) undoubtedly would have done were it Ukraine scoring as a result of England's crap defence - you have a go at Rooney for "scoring the jammiest goal you have seen in 50 years" (you obviously don't watch a lot of football if that is the case). That to me is bitterness. There are enough instances of strikers cheating their way to goal that would be worthy of your negative comments, just don't see the reason for it here, besides the obvious fact that you "have a thing" for Rooney and would criticise him whatever he did. *Yawn*

[rixalex]

You should read what I've written elsewhere rix....you do realise I am only pulling your nation's chain don't you?

Yeah fair enough. I have to admit, even with all the celebration that goes on in certain quarters in Scotland when England fail, in spite of myself i do end up cheering Scotland on in sport when the occasion arises... but keep that to yourself.

[carmine]

Sorry but Germany are light years better than us. We'll get dismantled. We stand a chance against Spain if we stick everyone behind the ball and stick the boot in. They'll start crying and lose the plot. But not zee Germans

nah, cobblers that. this spain team will just kick you right back. busquets, alonso, arbeloa, ramos, pique - all plenty capable of mixing it up.

Interesting! Well for a load of cobblers its worked well before when we beat them last time out Lets wait and see shall we before we let our partisan views take over.

And it wasn't because it was a friendly. Theres no such thing as a friendly. i i don't go along with players just turning and only worrying about avoiding injuries either. Spain simply couldn't find a way through.

Germany will though so i doubt we will play Spain but there you go.

[MrMuddle]

Is there any point in having extra officials when they position themselves so that they can't see properly ?

The Ukraine 'goal" was over the line, judging from the replays from the left - opposite to where the official was standing - very hard to tell from the normal camera viewpoint, impossible to tell from the right view, due to Terrys socks and the ball being the same colour.

Goal line technology should have been introduced after the fiascos at the last world cup, forget Blatter's idiotic stance of the same game for everyone, this tournament has seen countless millions invested by the Ukraine, only to see them cheated.

Was Rooney's goal the luckiest ever scored ? I've been watching football for almost fifty years and I can't remember a jammier one than that - perhaps Uncle Roy has that vital element of the rub of the green. England were lucky, can't recall a single player having a good game.

The ball was probably just over, but when it is as close as that, no matter how well positioned the official is, the decision is never going to be a matter of certainty. If it doesn't get given, you count yourself a bit unlucky sure, but it's hardly the yard over the line daylight robbery incident we have seen before and ourselves been the victim of.

As for your bitterness concerning Rooney's goal, what a nonsense. As if out of sportsmanship, Rooney should have let the ball pass his head for fear of the shame of scoring a sitter. It's what a strikers job is. To be ready for opportunities that come out of the blue like that. And he took it. He didn't cheat. Ukraine screwed up, he took advantage. Had that been England's defence screwing up, would you be bitter about the striker who took his chance, or would you be deriding England's crap defenders and goalie?

Bitterness? <deleted> ? Been "celebrating"?

Where did I accuse Rooney of cheating ? And one thing I would never accuse Rooney of is sportsmanship, I'd be amazed if he can even spell the word.

Doesn't alter the fact that due to Blatter's refusal to use the technology that's available, yet another tournament has been degraded.

I mentioned the fact that he hadn't cheated in scoring his goal, not because that was what you accused him of, but to make the point that it was a clean goal and whilst it may have been a sitter, he still needed to be in the right place and prepared to react from the ball having gone through a defenders legs, and then through the grasp of the goalie. Chances of this nature are often missed by the player not running that extra yard as they simply assume its the keepers ball, but rather than give credit to the scorer and have a go at the poor defence that allowed it - as you (and i) undoubtedly would have done were it Ukraine scoring as a result of England's crap defence - you have a go at Rooney for "scoring the jammiest goal you have seen in 50 years" (you obviously don't watch a lot of football if that is the case). That to me is bitterness. There are enough instances of strikers cheating their way to goal that would be worthy of your negative comments, just don't see the reason for it here, besides the obvious fact that you "have a thing" for Rooney and would criticise him whatever he did. *Yawn*

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

[Abrak]

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Well they werent actually unfairly cheated out of the goal because the striker was clearly offside even though it wasnt flagged.

Cant helped but be rather amused by France's loss to Sweden especially when they were crowing about how much better they were than England.

We have obviously has a bit of luck go our way in the 3 matches but it makes a bit of a change at a major tournament. We topped the Group which was a major achievement and stand a reasonable chance against the Italians (the bookies have them slight favorites at 7/1 against us at 15/8).

[rixalex]

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

I agree that this technology should have been introduced long ago, but until it is, it's another area in terms of officiating in which all teams can both gain an advantage and can lose an advantage. On this occasion, Ukraine lost an advantage, but it was hardly clear cut and it wasn't England that made the decision... and it is also not like England have never been on the end of some terrible decisions, and we have had to accept them just like Ukraine have to now. Do you think Ukraine have never benefited from officiating? Of course they have. Do you think moaned when they did? Time to man up and consider that it's not only officiating that led to the final result, but down to the players on the pitch.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Fine to not rate him as a man, but to not rate him as a footballer just shows that you either don't know a good football player when you see one, or you do but your dislike for him as a man, prevents you giving an honest or objective opinion.

Plenty of players from teams i don't support, who i think are complete knobs, but am still able to appreciate what they are capable of on the football pitch, even if i do so grudgingly.

[mommysboy]

R

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

I agree that this technology should have been introduced long ago, but until it is, it's another area in terms of officiating in which all teams can both gain an advantage and can lose an advantage. On this occasion, Ukraine lost an advantage, but it was hardly clear cut and it wasn't England that made the decision... and it is also not like England have never been on the end of some terrible decisions, and we have had to accept them just like Ukraine have to now. Do you think Ukraine have never benefited from officiating? Of course they have. Do you think moaned when they did? Time to man up and consider that it's not only officiating that led to the final result, but down to the players on the pitch.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Fine to not rate him as a man, but to not rate him as a footballer just shows that you either don't know a good football player when you see one, or you do but your dislike for him as a man, prevents you giving an honest or objective opinion.

Plenty of players from teams i don't support, who i think are complete knobs, but am still able to appreciate what they are capable of on the football pitch, even if i do so grudgingly.

A criticism of Rooney's game would be his tendency to sometimes lose the ball very unnecessarily when attacking, and worse still deep in left midfield, it's also this position that has been the scene of his 2 sending offs. He did look sluggish but there was enough about him to see he is a very good player.

The 'disallowed goal'. The most telling thing is that there is an official directly square on just a few yards away. He is the only one that has a true view of the incident. The camera shot we are mostly replaying, shows the ball in relation to the crossbar and possibly at an angle. In no way can this be compared to a notorious incident 2 years ago in SA.

Regarding the QF, if we play like we did last night we're out and probably 2-0 at the least, but you'd hope England will now relax a little and go out there to play just as Sweden did against France. I can't see any point doing otherwise. For me the wide midfield berths are the problem areas, and I'm hesitant to criticise the players who are isolated and left with it all to do. I'm out of ideas, anyone else?

[rixalex]

A criticism of Rooney's game would be his tendency to sometimes lose the ball very unnecessarily when attacking, and worse still deep in left midfield, it's also this position that has been the scene of his 2 sending offs. He did look sluggish but there was enough about him to see he is a very good player.

Yes i get what you are saying, although i think in general his ball retention is excellent, and when he does lose it, he fights like a man possessed to get it back. This dogged determination is what makes him great, but also what has led him to problems with the refs. I think over the last season or so though, he has matured and does a better job of keeping himself in check. As for sluggish, yes i agree. There was one moment when he broke free and was level with the last defender heading towards goal. He ended up having to check his run by the time he got to the box, and had to lay on a pass to someone else. Perhaps with a bit more match fitness he would have got a shot away himself.

The 'disallowed goal'. The most telling thing is that there is an official directly square on just a few yards away. He is the only one that has a true view of the incident. The camera shot we are mostly replaying, shows the ball in relation to the crossbar and possibly at an angle. In no way can this be compared to a notorious incident 2 years ago in SA.

Can you or anyone else confirm what Abrak was saying about the "disallowed goal" being offside anyway? I know there was one occasion when a Ukraine player had a free header at goal that just flew over, and replays showed him being offside although there was no flag so had it gone in, it would have counted, but i'm not sure about the goal line business whether there was any player offside, as all my concentration has been focused on where the ball was.

[StevieH]

Can you or anyone else confirm what Abrak was saying about the "disallowed goal" being offside anyway? I know there was one occasion when a Ukraine player had a free header at goal that just flew over, and replays showed him being offside although there was no flag so had it gone in, it would have counted, but i'm not sure about the goal line business whether there was any player offside, as all my concentration has been focused on where the ball was.

it was earlier in the move. the furthest forward ukraine player who played devic in was offside when the ball was hit forward by the ukraine defender. linesman missed it, he received the ball and played devic in for the chance on goal.

[oldgit]

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Well they werent actually unfairly cheated out of the goal because the striker was clearly offside even though it wasnt flagged.

Cant helped but be rather amused by France's loss to Sweden especially when they were crowing about how much better they were than England.

We have obviously has a bit of luck go our way in the 3 matches but it makes a bit of a change at a major tournament. We topped the Group which was a major achievement and stand a reasonable chance against the Italians (the bookies have them slight favorites at 7/1 against us at 15/8).

Before any of you gambling types,who like a bit of value,go steaming into your nearest Ladbroke's looking for 7-1 about Italy,they are actually 7-4.The 9-4 a draw over 90 mins.looks interesting.

[rixalex]

Can you or anyone else confirm what Abrak was saying about the "disallowed goal" being offside anyway? I know there was one occasion when a Ukraine player had a free header at goal that just flew over, and replays showed him being offside although there was no flag so had it gone in, it would have counted, but i'm not sure about the goal line business whether there was any player offside, as all my concentration has been focused on where the ball was.

it was earlier in the move. the furthest forward ukraine player who played devic in was offside when the ball was hit forward by the ukraine defender. linesman missed it, he received the ball and played devic in for the chance on goal.

Thanks for clearing that up. Can't help wondering why none of what you say has been put to to Blokhin during press interviews in which he has argued angrily about the unfairness of it all. I mean, of course i understand why a manager would react in the way he has - although perhaps inviting one journalist to step outside went a little beyond the pale - but if video evidence shows what you says it does, surely that goes some way to negating the whole affair.

[Abrak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJnLSVYY8XI

You can see the offside clearly here if you pause the video after 7 seconds.

[rixalex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJnLSVYY8XI

You can see the offside clearly here if you pause the video after 7 seconds.

Thanks.

[smokie36]

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Well they werent actually unfairly cheated out of the goal because the striker was clearly offside even though it wasnt flagged.

Cant helped but be rather amused by France's loss to Sweden especially when they were crowing about how much better they were than England.

We have obviously has a bit of luck go our way in the 3 matches but it makes a bit of a change at a major tournament. We topped the Group which was a major achievement and stand a reasonable chance against the Italians (the bookies have them slight favorites at 7/1 against us at 15/8).

At those odds rij I'll have a thousand quid on both teams please!

Edited June 20, 2012 by smokie36

[Razzler1973]

That was edgy and nervous but I think we handled a tough situation well. Host needing a win, etc etc

think people don't really get how tournaments work sometimes. We didn't need to go mental out of the blocks in search of goals, we only needed a draw, that's why rumours of Walcott started seemed odd and he didn't anyway (did he touch the ball when he came on?). You bide your time, anything can happen. Look at the French, it's not throwing it away they just got done. Spain dominated but had a point blank save and got away with a nailed on pen, Russia flopped, Dutch ... it's fine lines. You get out of the group, that's the most important thing.

We played it safe albeit with one of the worst 1st half performances I have seen in a while but there was a lot of stuff from range that we handled well. I always thought as the game went on we'd be able to get out more, Ukraine needed the win. It's never as simple by who wins by the most out of us and France to top the group. Easiest goal ever although Rooney looked off the pace. Hopefully it's a sharpness thing and he's a bit better for the next game.

Obviously that ball was over the line but it's not even worth having another conversation about it, nice to benefit from it but why couldn't that line judge take a step to the right? Anyway, the initial pass over looked offside to me anyway so screw it!

I think I prefer to play Italy but don't think the players are overly bothered about this 'we need to avoid Spain' as fans are. You just have to tackle the games as they come and and I hope we can give Italy a good game, certainly don't have to be terrified but maybe take out performance up a notch too. Also extra day rest for winning the group

[rixalex]

That was edgy and nervous but I think we handled a tough situation well. Host needing a win, etc etc

think people don't really get how tournaments work sometimes. We didn't need to go mental out of the blocks in search of goals, we only needed a draw, that's why rumours of Walcott started seemed odd and he didn't anyway (did he touch the ball when he came on?). You bide your time, anything can happen. Look at the French, it's not throwing it away they just got done. Spain dominated but had a point blank save and got away with a nailed on pen, Russia flopped, Dutch ... it's fine lines. You get out of the group, that's the most important thing.

Completely agree. I came on here at half time to see people talking about dragging half our team off, including Rooney, so disgusted were they with how we played. I thought to myself, i hope there are some calmer and clearer minds in the dressing room! I couldn't see the need to panic. Yes we didn't play that well, but Ukraine had huffed and puffed a lot without creating anything clear cut, and the score was set up well for us. Job done so far i thought.

Perhaps people do what they often accuse the England team of - of being complacent, of thinking we have a divine right to go out there and whip the opposition. Yes Ukraine might not be right up there, but it's a competitive international game - there are no easy ones. Dazzling play is a luxury we can't afford. Result is all that matters. That's all we should care about. The history books will show, two wins and one draw in our first three competitive games with a new manager and a mish mash of a team. That's pretty good going in my book. If it ends on Sunday, so be it. Top eight is our level. Beyond that a bonus.

[MB1]

You've obviously missed the major point of my comment, which was that Ukraine were unfairly cheated out of a well deserved draw, by FIFA refusing to use the technology available to ensure fair results in major games, and before you point out that the Euros are run by UEFA, if FIFA had introduced it, then UEFA would have had to comply.

As for Rooney's goal, I stand by my comments, can't remember ever seeing a goal scored after three defenders fail to cut out what was originally a bad cross, and yes I don't rate Rooney, either as a man or a footballer, but that's MY opinion, as you would say, nothing more, nothing less.

Well they werent actually unfairly cheated out of the goal because the striker was clearly offside even though it wasnt flagged.

Cant helped but be rather amused by France's loss to Sweden especially when they were crowing about how much better they were than England.

We have obviously has a bit of luck go our way in the 3 matches but it makes a bit of a change at a major tournament. We topped the Group which was a major achievement and stand a reasonable chance against the Italians (the bookies have them slight favorites at 7/1 against us at 15/8).

At those odds rij I'll have a thousand quid on both teams please!

William Hill have em both at 8-1 but that's as outright winners of the tourament.

I'm sure that's what Abrak meant when he posted but I can see why some people get easily confused as he was unclear to what he did mean.

Anyway Smokie do you still fancy a bag of sand on each. If you do I'll take the bet if ya don't mind, stuff the bookies making easy money I want some.

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Edited June 20, 2012 by MB1