Best Value Hospital?

[uhuh]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:53 AM, Why Me said:

I am deeply saddened by your experience at Bumrungrud. Nevertheless, anecdotal evidence of a single patient does not make a ranking. Their reputation is built on treating millions.

 

But as I said,  if you think Thailand has hospitals that rank among the world's best you don't work in medicine. 

Jeez, I just gave you an external reference ranking Bumrungrud. And there are others if you google. Please do not take your pain situation out on Thai med care as a whole. If you can get your problems fixed in your home country then fine, but even that seems beyond your reach. Yet you keep whining.

My pain was just to illustrate the third example i gave,  about pain management. 

You ignored the other 2 examples and there are many more. 

As I said,  you seem to have no idea about medicine and believe commercial websites. 

You can do that. Up to you. 

[uhuh]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:56 PM, lopburi3 said:

Actually it is new and not routine in most of the world yet - it is not available because they can not make fast enough to even fully supply US demand and are not shipping to new countries until they can do so.  The previous used Zostavax has been available in Thailand for years

 

That's exactly my point. In Thailand you do not get the best available. Thailand is somewhere at position 27 or 36 of the qeue for Shingrix.

 

[wordchild]

Measured , as one would a hotel , Thai hospitals stack up ok. 
They have the benefit of low wages ,for nursing and ancillary staff ,which means that staff/patient ratio looks good; there will always be plenty of people around to do the basics, for you, in most Bangkok hospitals. 
But if you have an issue that requires really serious , leading edge , medical help , you won’t find it in Bangkok (with a handful of exceptions), sadly. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by wordchild

[Sheryl]

Assuming getting correct medical care is your priority (as it should be) then you need to understand  that this can never  be assurred through choice of hospital. You have to choose the doctor.

 

I would much, much rather not subsidize the various"frills" Bumrungrad offers but I nonetheless go there sometimes, when  the doctor I want is there (their biggest plus IMO is the very large number of doctors/ range of specialists that have privileges there).

 

On the "value for money"  aspect also need to consider what is value to you personally.  Government hospitals have the lowest prices but waits are long and often quite uncomfortable, and it can take many visits to accomplish what can be done in one visit at a private hospital.  Some people have more time than money and for them,  the savings outweigh the inconveniences. For other people, time IS money and the opposite is true. For yet others, the conveniences of private hospitals make them worth using up to a point but not when it comes to really costly hospitalizations. There is no universal formula here.

 

 

 

 

[DaRoadrunner]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:53 AM, Why Me said:

Jeez, I just gave you an external reference ranking Bumrungrud. And there are others if you google. Please do not take your pain situation out on Thai med care as a whole. If you can get your problems fixed in your home country then fine, but even that seems beyond your reach. Yet you keep whining.

If it was Bumrungrad, in my experience he has got reason to whine. They would also have performed open wallet surgery. You may also find the same doctor can be seen at a Govt hospital for a fraction of the cost.

 

It works the other way around too. I know one doctor who works at a Police hospital... not known for being the greatest hospitals. But he also moonlights at Bumrungrad, where you will pay several times the price for the same doctor.

 

Like most things Thai, there is the image and then there is the reality.

 

It is not so much which hospital you choose. The trick is to find the doctor who knows about your particular condition.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by DaRoadrunner

[Why Me]

38 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

It is not so much which hospital you choose. The trick is to find the doctor who knows about your particular condition.

I do not disagree. Sheryl advises this too.

 

What I have a problem with is someone saying, oh, Thai medcare sucks or this hospital sucks because something bad happened to me or someone I know. And vice versa doesn't make sense either, oh, this is the best hospital in the world because they cured my cancer. Because we're talking millions of patients and hundreds of hospitals, you have to have a scientific assessment from a large sample.

 

In any case, simple Google search indicates that the top Thai hospitals like Bumrungrud, Siriraj et al are pretty well ranked internationally. As is Thai healthcare in general.

 

Heck, Thailand wouldn't be the third med best tourism destination in the world (Intnl. Medical Travel Journal quoted in https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/thailand-third-biggest-medical-tourism-destination-in-the-world) without some amount of quality.

 

I understand defamation laws here will keep bad reviews out of the press. But you can't hide internationally. If the health system was bad then there wouldn't be millions of med tourists.

[uhuh]

There are not millions of med tourists here.

All these internet rankings are mostly commercial <deleted>. 

For being only a middle income country,  Thailand has surprisingly good healthcare. Some isolated things are world class. But generally speaking,  it is not world class.  A lot of it is very basic, and a lot of it is very poor. 

Just like the country. 

 

And of course it looks all very neat,  and farangs fall in love with it. Just like the country.

[asiaexpat]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Assuming getting correct medical care is your priority (as it should be) then you need to understand  that this can never  be assurred through choice of hospital. You have to choose the doctor.

 

I would much, much rather not subsidize the various"frills" Bumrungrad offers but I nonetheless go there sometimes, when  the doctor I want is there (their biggest plus IMO is the very large number of doctors/ range of specialists that have privileges there).

 

On the "value for money"  aspect also need to consider what is value to you personally.  Government hospitals have the lowest prices but waits are long and often quite uncomfortable, and it can take many visits to accomplish what can be done in one visit at a private hospital.  Some people have more time than money and for them,  the savings outweigh the inconveniences. For other people, time IS money and the opposite is true. For yet others, the conveniences of private hospitals make them worth using up to a point but not when it comes to really costly hospitalizations. There is no universal formula here.

 

 

 

 

Best answer by far. My nephew is a well known doctor and I always ask for his opinion based on by complaint. Most doctors have rights at many hospitals so cost can be controlled by selecting an appropriate hospital where the doctor can work. 

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, asiaexpat said:

Best answer by far. My nephew is a well known doctor and I always ask for his opinion based on by complaint. Most doctors have rights at many hospitals so cost can be controlled by selecting an appropriate hospital where the doctor can work. 

But only up to a point - at some hospitals doctor will have more time and facilities to consider your conditions and evaluate your condition - this is especially true if using government hospitals as 'your' doctor is very likely to turn into any number of less experienced 'team' doctors if more than a consultation (at least that was my experience).  If same doctor worked in a private setting you likely would be treated by him from start to finish.  

[edwardandtubs]

On 9/12/2012 at 9:10 AM, borabora1 said:

Also to consider, Srikarinm hospital in Bangna, after Central City, and then on the way to Samut Prakarn.

Very good standard and used to be affordable, with an excellent pharmacy product.

Both generalist and specialized doctors are very good even compared to western standards.

Website is easy to find.

 

On the basis of positive comments on this thread I went to Sikarin Hospital when I broke my toe. I'm happy with the treatment but I'm not sure it's any more affordable than somewhere like Bumrungrad. First appointment where the bone was reset cost 3500 baht and the follow-up appointment 3000 baht. If I return there for a final appointment that will likely come to 9-10,000 in total for a broken toe, which seems quite pricey.

Edited January 27, 2020 by edwardandtubs

[maisodni]

My endorsement is for Sukhumvit Hospital, a short walk from Ekkamai BTS Station.   Very efficient, with reasonable prices.  They opened a very big new "wing" (completely separate from  the old hospital building) about four years ago.

[jayboy]

On 1/10/2020 at 9:10 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

If it was Bumrungrad, in my experience he has got reason to whine. They would also have performed open wallet surgery. You may also find the same doctor can be seen at a Govt hospital for a fraction of the cost.

 

It works the other way around too. I know one doctor who works at a Police hospital... not known for being the greatest hospitals. But he also moonlights at Bumrungrad, where you will pay several times the price for the same doctor.

 

Like most things Thai, there is the image and then there is the reality.

 

It is not so much which hospital you choose. The trick is to find the doctor who knows about your particular condition.

 

 

On the cost side at Bumrungrad and similar, one should bear in mind that prices quoted to an individual may be markedly higher than those negotiated by an insurance company.That's why your health insurance company - mine anyway - is keen to get involved at a very early stage.They have leverage we as individuals don't.

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, maisodni said:

My endorsement is for Sukhumvit Hospital, a short walk from Ekkamai BTS Station.   Very efficient, with reasonable prices.  They opened a very big new "wing" (completely separate from  the old hospital building) about four years ago.

What does 'reasonable prices' mean though? If you mean 10% lower than Bumrungrad I'd rather just go to Bumrungrad.

[BritManToo]

On 1/10/2020 at 8:33 PM, Sheryl said:

On the "value for money"  aspect also need to consider what is value to you personally.  Government hospitals have the lowest prices but waits are long and often quite uncomfortable, and it can take many visits to accomplish what can be done in one visit at a private hospital.  Some people have more time than money and for them,  the savings outweigh the inconveniences. For other people, time IS money and the opposite is true. For yet others, the conveniences of private hospitals make them worth using up to a point but not when it comes to really costly hospitalizations. There is no universal formula here.

 

I've never had any problems with Thai government hospitals.

The wait doesn't matter, I'm retired and have nothing important to do.

But you do need to think about their diagnosis as they can make mistakes.

Go to see them, discuss possible treatments and medications, offer your own input, then decide how to proceed.

 

Foreigner prices, rarely more than 250bht/visit for outpatient treatment.

Add 500bht if you need to stay overnight (add 1,000) if you want a private room).

 

Thai prices, free.

Edited January 27, 2020 by BritManToo

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Go to see them, discuss possible treatments and medications, offer your own input, then decide how to proceed.

Suspect most of us, both foreigner and Thai, have experienced, very little encouragement to discuss from most such doctors.  Even those that would be willing often just do not have the time to do so without taking time from others in a public hospital setting.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Suspect most of us, both foreigner and Thai, have experienced, very little encouragement to discuss from most such doctors.  Even those that would be willing often just do not have the time to do so without taking time from others in a public hospital setting.

I've never encountered anything apart from co-operation in the Thai government hospitals.

[DaRoadrunner]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've never encountered anything apart from co-operation in the Thai government hospitals.

Agreed, but cooperation is not much use if you get the doctor who does not know what he is doing. Key is to find the one who knows his stuff... lots o luck with that!

 

Also, if it is something serious, a second independent opinion at a different hospital is wise if unsure. I never forget the saying... “Doctors bury their mistakes.”

 

To which we could add... Every time they prescribe a drug, look it up on Google and see if it is correct for your condition. The other bit you wanna read is the “side effects.”

[VocalNeal]

7 hours ago, maisodni said:

My endorsement is for Sukhumvit Hospital, a short walk from Ekkamai BTS Station.   Very efficient, with reasonable prices.  They opened a very big new "wing" (completely separate from  the old hospital building) about four years ago.

Rubbish place. I would have died had I not subsequently gone to Bangkok Christian.

 

Agreed I was lucky and went to outpatients (BC) on the right day and met a doctor who knew exactly what was wrong. 

[uhuh]

11 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

On the basis of positive comments on this thread I went to Sikarin Hospital when I broke my toe. I'm happy with the treatment but I'm not sure it's any more affordable than somewhere like Bumrungrad. First appointment where the bone was reset cost 3500 baht and the follow-up appointment 3000 baht. If I return there for a final appointment that will likely come to 9-10,000 in total for a broken toe, which seems quite pricey.

It would have cost a LOT more at Bumrungrad.

30000? 50000?

You would be surprised. 

 

But I agree that  Sikarin hospital is not cheap. I was initially surprised about their prices, too.

[mike787]

Bumrungrad is the best all around.  Sure a little more but worth it.  Price is what you pay, value is what you get.  Bumrungrad delivers.

[edwardandtubs]

18 hours ago, uhuh said:

It would have cost a LOT more at Bumrungrad.

30000? 50000?

You would be surprised. 

 

But I agree that  Sikarin hospital is not cheap. I was initially surprised about their prices, too.

 

I would be surprised if it was as much as that. The first visit was a consultation, x-ray, local anaesthetic, manipulating the bone back into place and then buddy taping. The second visit was another x-ray and more buddy taping. The third visit will hopefully be another x-ray and the all clear. Total time spent with the doctor maybe 20 minutes over the 3 visits. Would that really cost so much at Bumrungrad? I went to Bumrungrad 15 years ago after food poisoning and was charged about 500 baht for a 10 minute appointment.

Edited January 28, 2020 by edwardandtubs

[DaRoadrunner]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

I went to Bumrungrad 15 years ago after food poisoning and was charged about 500 baht for a 10 minute appointment.

15 years ago! You are slightly out of date. Times have changed and they have got greedy. Listed on the stock market, its a business first and a hospital last.

[uhuh]

5 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

I would be surprised if it was as much as that. The first visit was a consultation, x-ray, local anaesthetic, manipulating the bone back into place and then buddy taping. The second visit was another x-ray and more buddy taping. The third visit will hopefully be another x-ray and the all clear. Total time spent with the doctor maybe 20 minutes over the 3 visits. Would that really cost so much at Bumrungrad? I went to Bumrungrad 15 years ago after food poisoning and was charged about 500 baht for a 10 minute appointment.

Bumrungrad would not have let you gone so easily...

Maybe they would have found it necessary to consult one or 2 or 3 more specialists...

or a CT scan was deemed necessary....

and maybe you needed "manipulating the bone back into place" done under general anesthesia, so that's a lot more than just 20000 or 30000...

and after GA it's advisable  to rest one night as inpatient in the hospital, maybe 25000...

 

And you can be sure that for all these things they have valid medical reasons. It's just a very different level of care and of prices. 

[edwardandtubs]

10 hours ago, uhuh said:

Bumrungrad would not have let you gone so easily...

Maybe they would have found it necessary to consult one or 2 or 3 more specialists...

or a CT scan was deemed necessary....

and maybe you needed "manipulating the bone back into place" done under general anesthesia, so that's a lot more than just 20000 or 30000...

and after GA it's advisable  to rest one night as inpatient in the hospital, maybe 25000...

 

And you can be sure that for all these things they have valid medical reasons. It's just a very different level of care and of prices. 

You're making them sound totally unethical but if they were, patients would just take their custom elsewhere. Sikarin followed standard medical procedure for my injury and I think Bumrungrad would have done the same. Probably Bumrungrad would have also sold me a brand name walking boot and crutches at inflated prices which could have doubled or tripled the cost but no one is actually forcing you to buy these things. You could just say thanks for the recommendation but I think I'll buy them from Lazada.

[uhuh]

On 1/29/2020 at 11:57 AM, edwardandtubs said:

You're making them sound totally unethical 

NO

They are not completely unethical. 

I said "for all these things they have valid medical reasons" and I mean it.

"It's just a very different level of care".

They (usually) don't do things that are not justifiable.  But they do everything that is justifiable whereas many other places cut corners (which again maybe justifiable). 

BTW I am a loyal customer of Bumrungrad

[DaRoadrunner]

3 hours ago, uhuh said:

BTW I am a loyal customer of Bumrungrad ...... "It's just a very different level of care".

They will take care of your wallet alright.

 

3 hours ago, uhuh said:

They are not completely unethical. 

From personal bitter experience I beg to differ.

[Number 6]

All my best students always shot for Siriraj and Chula. Just saying.

 

I'm going with St Louis. It also is running decent promotions on check up packages now. I'm going to lose a 2 more kg and get checked there myself.

[fhickson]

religious (mormon, catholic, red cross, etc) hospitals as a first choice in general imo

[edwardandtubs]

I'm not very satisfied with Sikarin hospital. The doctors in the orthopedics department work full-time at government hospitals and part-time at Sikarin once a week. Their English is limited and their advice has been inaccurate and unhelpful. They don't work as a team so when I had to go back on a different day of the week for a follow-up appointment, the new doctor who was assigned to me didn't want to take over my case so just booked me another appointment with the original doctor the following week. And those two doctors specialise in areas unrelated to my fracture.