I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

No one has to label themselves but the debate is about how someone might label themselves if they so desired, and it seems to be a lot harder than anyone thought! But heck that's the whole point of TVF is it not, to assist our fellow posters in their hour of need?!

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

No one has to label themselves but the debate is about how someone might label themselves if they so desired, and it seems to be a lot harder than anyone thought! But heck that's the whole point of TVF is it not, to assist our fellow posters in their hour of need?!

To make complicated that which is simple, and to cast doubt and confusion where previously there was none. We all do our bit

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

No one has to label themselves but the debate is about how someone might label themselves if they so desired, and it seems to be a lot harder than anyone thought! But heck that's the whole point of TVF is it not, to assist our fellow posters in their hour of need?!

To make complicated that which is simple, and to cast doubt and confusion where previously there was none. We all do our bit

Well as my grandafther used to say, "If you see a fight, get in it."

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Then why do you call yourself...a "sacred" female member?

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Some people take great pride in their ethnicity, and some governments make a lot of effort to try to support them. There's an ethnic village in China which the government set out to preserve, the fair complaint of the inhabitants was along the line of " why are we not allowed inside toilets and TV's like the rest of the World ", the government pointed out that they would make far more money by continuing their original lifestyle and becoming a tourist attraction.

They duly did and they seem ( in as much as you believe any Chinese propaganda ) to be quite content with the new arrangement. I apologize for not recollecting the name of the village.

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” —Stephen F Roberts

But why do we need the word "atheist"? We don't need a special word for a lack of belief in Alien abduction or horoscopes...

I don't necessarily look forward to the day when the are no more believers but I would welcome a time when the lack of belief is not supposed to be some sort of special status.

I'm agnostic then. Thanks to isanbirder for clearing that up. When is the next meeting?

I'm agnostic then. Thanks to isanbirder for clearing that up. When is the next meeting?

I would say , from the information that you've provided, that you are indifferent. Most agnostics I know, have come to their inconclusiveless through a lifetime of exanination and exploration.

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Some people take great pride in their ethnicity, and some governments make a lot of effort to try to support them. There's an ethnic village in China which the government set out to preserve, the fair complaint of the inhabitants was along the line of " why are we not allowed inside toilets and TV's like the rest of the World ", the government pointed out that they would make far more money by continuing their original lifestyle and becoming a tourist attraction.

They duly did and they seem ( in as much as you believe any Chinese propaganda ) to be quite content with the new arrangement. I apologize for not recollecting the name of the village.

That is an ethnic identity which doesn't have to have a religion attached.

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Then why do you call yourself...a "sacred" female member?

It's a word. The less time you take trying to make something out of nothing the happier you will be.

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Then why do you call yourself...a "sacred" female member?

It's a word. The less time you take trying to make something out of nothing the happier you will be.

I'm perfectly happy, thank you very much.

I'm not trying to make something out of nothing. I'm simply wondering why a self avowed atheist calls herself "sacred". That's all.

Edit in: The title of this thread is "Atheism...I'm confused."

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Some people take great pride in their ethnicity, and some governments make a lot of effort to try to support them. There's an ethnic village in China which the government set out to preserve, the fair complaint of the inhabitants was along the line of " why are we not allowed inside toilets and TV's like the rest of the World ", the government pointed out that they would make far more money by continuing their original lifestyle and becoming a tourist attraction.

They duly did and they seem ( in as much as you believe any Chinese propaganda ) to be quite content with the new arrangement. I apologize for not recollecting the name of the village.

I have no difficulty distinguishing between atheism and agnosticism, but I am having problems with 'ethnic' and 'ethnicity'. Having first made the slipshod use of 'racial' to distinguish 'ethnic Jews', for which I was soundly reprimanded, I am now faced with theblether's perfectly correct use of 'ethnic' in this post. My dictionary (Chambers/Cambridge) says it means 'pertaining to the customs etc of a particular racial group'.

I wasn't raised with any religion & have never believed in god. I personally don't label myself & don't see why anyone else should have to either.

Then why do you call yourself...a "sacred" female member?

It's a word. The less time you take trying to make something out of nothing the happier you will be.

I'm perfectly happy, thank you very much.

I'm not trying to make something out of nothing. I'm simply wondering why a self avowed atheist calls herself "sacred". That's all.

Edit in: The title of this thread is "Atheism...I'm confused."

I'm not an atheist self avowed or other. I do not define myself. I don't & never have believed in god or religion. Simple as that. Therefore I can use a word like sacred whenever I chose.

I'm not an atheist self avowed or other. I do not define myself. I don't & never have believed in god or religion. Simple as that. Therefore I can use a word like sacred whenever I chose. (quoted from Boo)

Like Humpty-Dumpty, boo, a word means whatever you want it to mean?

It's clear many of you simply don't understand the meaning of the word "ethnicity." Perhaps a bit of reading will help?

Click on Jingthing's link.

It's clear many of you simply don't understand the meaning of the word "ethnicity." Perhaps a bit of reading will help?

Click on Jingthing's link.

This is especially moot given the likely preponderance of TVF contributors partnered with people of a different ethnicity. God knows how the kids work out their ethnicity if the adults are confused about what it means....!!

You can be multiple ethnicities.

You can be multiple ethnicities.

That's the joy of ethnicity you can be whatever you choose to be! Race self selection is a little more tricky, but with increased numbers of multiracial couples even that is morphing fast.

Mixed race children are now the biggest " ethnic " group in the UK.

We've hardly scratched the surface of this issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21995-2004Sep14.html

Race is complicated. Nothing in the discussion is black and white.

"It doesn't exist biologically, but it does exist socially,"
said Alan Goodman, incoming president of the American Anthropological
Association, which sponsored the meeting at the Holiday Inn in Old Town.

...

If there was a consensus that emerged from two days of conversation,
it's the notion that race is a cultural construct. Investigations into
the human genome have so far failed to turn up any evidence that there's
such a thing as, for example, a Caucasian. Human beings are genetically
rather homogeneous compared with other animals. But the lack of
biological support for traditional categories of race does not change
the fact that race is a lived reality. The exhibit should discuss this
"paradox of race/no-race," in the words of anthropologist Micaela
diLeonardo.

We've hardly scratched the surface of this issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21995-2004Sep14.html

Race is complicated. Nothing in the discussion is black and white.

"It doesn't exist biologically, but it does exist socially,"

said Alan Goodman, incoming president of the American Anthropological

Association, which sponsored the meeting at the Holiday Inn in Old Town.

...

If there was a consensus that emerged from two days of conversation,

it's the notion that race is a cultural construct. Investigations into

the human genome have so far failed to turn up any evidence that there's

such a thing as, for example, a Caucasian. Human beings are genetically

rather homogeneous compared with other animals. But the lack of

biological support for traditional categories of race does not change

the fact that race is a lived reality. The exhibit should discuss this

"paradox of race/no-race," in the words of anthropologist Micaela

diLeonardo.

And to tie this back into the Op you could argue that both race and religion are cultural constructs, thus you can decide for yourself whether you are religious, agnostic or atheist....

We've hardly scratched the surface of this issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21995-2004Sep14.html

Race is complicated. Nothing in the discussion is black and white.

"It doesn't exist biologically, but it does exist socially,"

said Alan Goodman, incoming president of the American Anthropological

Association, which sponsored the meeting at the Holiday Inn in Old Town.

...

If there was a consensus that emerged from two days of conversation,

it's the notion that race is a cultural construct. Investigations into

the human genome have so far failed to turn up any evidence that there's

such a thing as, for example, a Caucasian. Human beings are genetically

rather homogeneous compared with other animals. But the lack of

biological support for traditional categories of race does not change

the fact that race is a lived reality. The exhibit should discuss this

"paradox of race/no-race," in the words of anthropologist Micaela

diLeonardo.

And to tie this back into the Op you could argue that both race and religion are cultural constructs, thus you can decide for yourself whether you are religious, agnostic or atheist....

I don't think you can decide. You can call yourself what you want - we told some girls in York we were French; but you either believe or you don't believe. I believe that the sun will rise tomoorow, and no amount of persuasion, by myself or anyone else, will persuade me otherwise.

SC

We've hardly scratched the surface of this issue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21995-2004Sep14.html

Race is complicated. Nothing in the discussion is black and white.

"It doesn't exist biologically, but it does exist socially,"

said Alan Goodman, incoming president of the American Anthropological

Association, which sponsored the meeting at the Holiday Inn in Old Town.

...

If there was a consensus that emerged from two days of conversation,

it's the notion that race is a cultural construct. Investigations into

the human genome have so far failed to turn up any evidence that there's

such a thing as, for example, a Caucasian. Human beings are genetically

rather homogeneous compared with other animals. But the lack of

biological support for traditional categories of race does not change

the fact that race is a lived reality. The exhibit should discuss this

"paradox of race/no-race," in the words of anthropologist Micaela

diLeonardo.

And to tie this back into the Op you could argue that both race and religion are cultural constructs, thus you can decide for yourself whether you are religious, agnostic or atheist....

I don't think you can decide. You can call yourself what you want - we told some girls in York we were French; but you either believe or you don't believe. I believe that the sun will rise tomoorow, and no amount of persuasion, by myself or anyone else, will persuade me otherwise.

SC

Quite agree...religion cannot demand nor needs proof, it is an act of faith or for the more cynically minded is an act of suspending disbelief...

In terms of ethnicity it all boils down to the Individual's preference, thus the Anglo-Karen child decides the breakdown between the 2 distinct ethnicities that they represent.

Hence the challenge to racism. Is Mo Farah or Rio Ferdinand, or Thierry Henry or Benzema any less British or French than Karen Brown or Jean-Paul Dubois? Brits have absorbed and adapted immigrants over the millennia as have most other nations....so what?

Mixed race children are now the biggest " ethnic " group in the UK.

Please quote the research on this - the 2011 census figures do not back your statement - by a long way!

Mixed race children are now the biggest " ethnic " group in the UK.

Please quote the research on this - the 2011 census figures do not back your statement - by a long way!

I read it on the BBC website a couple of years ago, I'll try to find it. In the meantime how about you linking us to the census figures?

Okay I may have mis-stated, it appears that mixed race is the fastest growing " ethnic " group, not the largest. Very interesting reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jan/18/race-identity-britain-study

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15164970

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/sep/06/guardiansocietysupplement1

The BBC link gives us these figures............

Resident population estimates by ethnic group 2009 (in England)

SOURCE: ONS

All ethnic groups

51,809,700

White

45,313,300

Mixed

956,700

Asian or Asian British

3,166,800

Black or black British

1,521,400

Chinese or other ethnic group

851,600

and yet there appears to be a dramatic understatement of the amount of people correctly describing themselves as mixed race. Figures of 2 million plus are being bandied about.

Hence the challenge to racism. Is Mo Farah or Rio Ferdinand, or Thierry Henry or Benzema any less British or French than Karen Brown or Jean-Paul Dubois? Brits have absorbed and adapted immigrants over the millennia as have most other nations....so what?

Where does one take this back to?

Britain was once a part of Europe - i.e. was joined to mainland Europe/Asia. At that time there were the original tribes in the area, drifting in from wherever they originated, presumably by hunting or by pressure from the East.

These were later pressed by Celts, Picts, Scots and other tribes coming in to a detached British Isles.

These were conquered by Roman invaders, traded with continental European tribes, traded with Phoenicians and other merchant-adventure peoples.

Most Romans left by 300 A.D., but some stayed, having already been assimilated into the hodge-podge that Britain already was. This mixture gradually drifted down into the 'Dark Ages' until the Angles and Saxons arrived from Northern Germany. The people settled, mixed with the locals and farmed (mainly) the Eastern part of Britain.

The Norse raiders came a-viking, from Denmark and Norway. They basically killed, raped and stole the property in the South, but settled around Northumbria, down as far as York.

Later came the Normans, themselves descendents of Viking raiders on France.

Trade brought an influx of many different peoples, including Jews from Spain and Morrocco, where they had been taken by their Arab masters. The Jews were expelled in 1284, but I am sure some converted and stayed, although I have no proof.

Matters continued in this way until the Spanish Armada, when many Spanish ships were wrecked on the Scottish and Irish coasts and many of the sailors and soldiers stayed. So another strain was added to the mix.

Later additions came from the British conquest of India, the slave trade, the various wars fought overseas and so on.

Thus the basic ethnicity of an Englishman may contain veins from many races and cultures, but they have all gelled into what we think of as being English. (The Scots, Welsh and Irish have similar histories, but we all regard ourselves as being English / Scottish / Welsh / Irish / Northern Irish) This is surely our ethnicity - not a pure race, not even a mixture of recognisable races, but a people who, wherever we may meet our confreres, can recognise each other and welcome the stranger because he is 'one of us'.

I read it on the BBC website a couple of years ago, I'll try to find it. In the meantime how about you linking us to the census figures?

The National Census did not give out anything on race that I can find (probably Political Correctness over-ruling our right to information), but maybe you can dig out something from here :

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Identity

I have been given figures from some friends in the local Uni., but I don't have the provenance. I will ask.

I read it on the BBC website a couple of years ago, I'll try to find it. In the meantime how about you linking us to the census figures?

The National Census did not give out anything on race that I can find (probably Political Correctness over-ruling our right to information), but maybe you can dig out something from here :

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Identity

I have been given figures from some friends in the local Uni., but I don't have the provenance. I will ask.

Your 'local Uni', being Cambridge, probably IS the provenance!