This topic may get a bit heated however it's intended for a genuine exchange of ideas, it's not US bashing.

Contrary to perception the vast majority of we Brits stand shoulder to shoulder with the US on many issues, the one issue that has constantly bemused us is the US attitude to terror.

The Boston bombing was a horrific and cowardly attack and it's being well covered in the World News thread. However we Brits see a different angle to this story when we look at Boston.

Boston was one of the most fertile fund raising grounds for the IRA during The Troubles. NORAID would routinely invite known terrorists to speak at fund raising events and the impressionable among the crowds would then pour money into the IRA pot.

Many genuinely believed that the money was allocated for the prisoners and the widows, but the truth of the matter was the money was used to buy arms from Libya, among other places, and to fund carnage on the streets of Belfast. ( and beyond ).

Look at that very short trail, Boston money arrived in Belfast, it was then exported to Libya to buy arms. The Lockerbie Bombing which I believe was the worst terrorist attack against US civilians to that date, however from memory it was preceded by a Libyan terrorist attack on a nightclub in Germany, targeting US personnel. Again from memory it was that / those attacks that prompted Reagan to order the bombing raid on Libya that killed Gaddafi's baby daughter.

However even after the Lockerbie bombing, which was traumatic for we Scots, the US continued to allow NORAID to raise money. I know for a fact that the CIA were fully aware of the money trail, it was confirmed to me over dinner by a CIA man at a particular European diplomatic location I will not name.

We Brits could never understand the US support for the IRA, tacit or otherwise, and we certainly could not understand why people would show up at NORAID conventions and pour money in, or fill the buckets in Boston pubs.

It was within the power of the US to effectively switch off the IRA, in effect once Bill Clinton got his head round the situation, ( ie, got the nonsense knocked out of it by David Trimble ) the Peace Process started to flourish, and the Good Friday Agreement came into force. I have an ex-IRA terrorist that works for me that was released under that agreement. He moved to Glasgow to start a new life.

The peace process did take a while to settle in, there was a lot of background noise about the various factions surrendering their arms, but things were looking up. When we Brits saw what happened at Oklahoma we were shocked and horrified, and our US cousins may not appreciate to what extent the UK came to a halt during the 9/11 period. We could not believe the horror inflicted on the US at that time and we as a nation swung behind the US, and the US will recognize that at every combat zone since 9/11 Our Boys have been there and laid down their lives along with your boys.

............and yet, we Brits to this day still can't get our heads around the US attitude to terrorism within our shores over that horrendous period. I would be interested to hear from our US colleagues at to their thoughts at that time , and how their thoughts have changed since.

edited for clarity.

If they saw British kids blown to bits perhaps something might have changed . We read NOW what the now defunked extremist are involved in.

If they saw British kids blown to bits perhaps something might have changed . We read NOW what the now defunked extremist are involved in.

I would have imagined the US media would have given extensive coverage to the worst attacks at least. Enniskillen being a prime example......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day_bombing

Do our US colleagues remember this particular bombing? what was the reaction in the US?

Lets turn the tables around. As an oldy l know about the US funding of terrorists with nooooooo problem from the ''law''. What if us Brits blew up a US funding venue , would that be OK in the eyes of the US cash givers as a part of their philosophy. ?.

To give an idea of what Irish pubs were like in London....I have personally seen a guy removed at closing time for refusing to stand for the national anthem.

I never once saw a collection there in the 90's in spite of visiting many pubs in Shepherds Bush, Kilburn and parts of South London.

The reason for this is simple. Such a collection would have been illegal and lead to arrest and closure of the premises.

There was plenty of intimidating behaviour however and certainly people I knew to avoid due to their supposed or otherwise connections.

Money was certainly being raised....through semi legit business and importation of illegal substances....but not by donation.

The ease with which NORAID raised funds for a terrorist organisation in the UK was an American disgrace and shames many politicians on both sides of the pond.

My opinion anyway.

Americans always seem to have been somewhat blinkered about helping the IRA. Until 9/11, the US seemed to bear a charmed life; other people had wars, not Americans (Americans helped them, bless them, from afar). (Yes, they had wars, but not on American soil)

I think 9/11 shocked them paranoid. You've only to hear Americans jumping to the conclusion that the Boston affair was a Muslim plot, and all Muslims are to be blamed.

If somebody wanted to duplicate 9/11, but used a different modus operandi, it would be fairly easy to do so.

As an Australian my perception of events is sketchier than those from the UK and the US. In fact I had to google what NORAID is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAID

It always seemed to me that there was more support in the US for the IRA as a lot of US people saw it as a fight for Freedom. That the long and involved fighting was a chance for Northern Island to break the yoke of British rule. The IRA was portrayed more of a freedom fighting group for many years in Australia so I could imagine there would be that emphasis within the US also. Many were of the opinion here that the UK should just cut the chains and walk away.

The US has a large number of people with Irish heritage and I can see how support, tacit or otherwise, could be given. A view that supporting a group such as the IRA was a group looking for freedom, the very same ideals that many US citizens could relate to and have grown up on.

Despite many terrorism events against the US prior to 9/11 worldwide, it was 9/11 that changed everything. Since then the rhetoric from the US has been a constant anti/zero tolerance of terrorism message, indeed their efforts have become active in seeking out possible events before they can happen. This is concentrating on foreign rather than domestic terrorism. One could say that many of the mass shootings on US soil are acts of terrorism, yet they seem not to be portrayed this way. The recent gun law defeat supports this line of thought.

One question is was the IRA the only group supported by fund raising within the US, or is more likely there were a number of different groups from different parts of the world supported with funds raised in the US?

The past acceptance of of fund raising for the IRA does seem at odds with current policy, but that is probably down to 9/11 happening on US soil. Before that everything was far enough way to have a disconnect. Would such fund raising be able to happen now? i would not think so.

Very valid points gents........

I could see on one level how people could fall for the lie that the IRA were freedom fighters, but there were a couple of glaring facts that anyone with a mind could see.......one was that there were regular General Elections where democracy took it's course, and the other was the existence of the SDLP................ from wiki

" The SDLP support Irish Reunification, but reject utterly the use of violence as a means to that end. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_and_politics_of_Northern_Ireland

The SDLP were the larger of the reunification parties at that time, and you would have thought that the US would have put they're shoulder to the wheel to assist them, instead of untold amounts of US citizens funding terrorism.

I wonder how many US citizens could be rightfully charged with " conspiracy to aid a terrorist act " ?

I'm interested to hear what the US members think of this matter?

I think one only needs to look at the demographics of the US North East to determine wherein the problem was. The US has seven times as many Irish as Ireland. Naturally there are going to be problems.

This doesn't explain the lack of interest but the only explanation I could offer is that terrorism wasn't the elephant in the room in the US until 9/11.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Irish-American population is seven times larger than Ireland

Posted by Sarah Kliff on March 17, 2013 at 10:03 am

From the article...

According to the Census, there are 34.5 million Americans who list their heritage as either primarily or partially Irish. That number is, incidentally, seven times larger than the population of Ireland itself (4.68 million). Irish is the second-most common ancestry among Americans, falling just behind German.

New York has the most concentrated Irish population; 12.9 percent of its residents claim Irish ancestry, which compares to a rate of 11.1 percent of the country overall. Boston, meanwhile, claims the most-concentrated Irish population for a city: 20.4 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/17/the-irish-american-population-is-seven-times-larger-than-ireland/

How did the US media represent the situation in Northern Ireland chuckd?

I recall the U.S. media coverage over the years about Northern Ireland and terror events in England was generally balanced and sober. Yes Boston is a city with a huge Irish roots population. The U.S. became focused on terror paranoia in 2011. Before then, it didn't hit home.

My mother gave to the Catholic Church on a regular basis, I remember asking her how many guns she bought this week. When the Q is what was the avg yank thinking back then? It was probably something to do with Archie Bunker; the govt is global and it's people are local

I could see on one level how people could fall for the lie that the IRA were freedom fighters

I put part of the blame on the British themselves. Celebrities like McCartney and Lennon seemed to be supporting the IRA when it was in fashion in the hippy days. Americans ate it up.

Give Ireland back to the Irish

Don't make them have to take it away

Give Ireland back to the Irish

Make Ireland Irish today

I think one only needs to look at the demographics of the US North East to determine wherein the problem was. The US has seven times as many Irish as Ireland. Naturally there are going to be problems.

This doesn't explain the lack of interest but the only explanation I could offer is that terrorism wasn't the elephant in the room in the US until 9/11.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Irish-American population is seven times larger than Ireland

Posted by Sarah Kliff on March 17, 2013 at 10:03 am

From the article...

According to the Census, there are 34.5 million Americans who list their heritage as either primarily or partially Irish. That number is, incidentally, seven times larger than the population of Ireland itself (4.68 million). Irish is the second-most common ancestry among Americans, falling just behind German.

New York has the most concentrated Irish population; 12.9 percent of its residents claim Irish ancestry, which compares to a rate of 11.1 percent of the country overall. Boston, meanwhile, claims the most-concentrated Irish population for a city: 20.4 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/17/the-irish-american-population-is-seven-times-larger-than-ireland/

And thats a major part of the problem, the people in NE USA are NOT Irish they are American so should have kept their noses out. Is there something bad about being just American as opposed to German, Irish, Italian............ American?

And thats a major part of the problem, the people in NE USA are NOT Irish they are American so should have kept their noses out. Is there something bad about being just American as opposed to German, Irish, Italian............ American?

There are plenty of actual Irish people in the USA! As far as Americans of Irish background, Irish-Americans and all the other hyphens, the hyphenated thing is something Americans do and enjoy doing. Toleration please.

Toleration while the hypens fund the murder of innocent civilians?

As an aside there was a very amusing anecdote that quoted GW's reasons for the "War on Terror" to allow 3 Para and The Royal Marines to invade Boston and set up a prison camp on the Isle of Wight for War Criminals. Didn't go down too well Stateside as a little to close to the truth.

Toleration while the hypens fund the murder of innocent civilians?

No connection at all between the American hyphenation custom and terrorism.

Even now there are dozens of IRA fugitives in the US, could you imagine the US reaction if we Brits shielded the 9/11 bombers?

You would have thought by now the US authorities would have rounded them up and sent them back to the UK to face justice. They would most likely be processed and released due to the Good Friday agreement, but it doesn't get around the fact that the US is currently harbouring fugitives.

Even now there are dozens of IRA fugitives in the US, could you imagine the US reaction if we Brits shielded the 9/11 bombers?

You would have thought by now the US authorities would have rounded them up and sent them back to the UK to face justice. They would most likely be processed and released due to the Good Friday agreement, but it doesn't get around the fact that the US is currently harbouring fugitives.

You raise a valid point. Make more noise!

Even now there are dozens of IRA fugitives in the US, could you imagine the US reaction if we Brits shielded the 9/11 bombers?

You would have thought by now the US authorities would have rounded them up and sent them back to the UK to face justice. They would most likely be processed and released due to the Good Friday agreement, but it doesn't get around the fact that the US is currently harbouring fugitives.

You raise a valid point. Make more noise!

Glad to see one American at least agrees with this.

I appreciate the support of JT on this issue too. There does seem to be a blind spot somewhere along the line though. I don't understand it.

Even now there are dozens of IRA fugitives in the US, could you imagine the US reaction if we Brits shielded the 9/11 bombers?

You would have thought by now the US authorities would have rounded them up and sent them back to the UK to face justice. They would most likely be processed and released due to the Good Friday agreement, but it doesn't get around the fact that the US is currently harbouring fugitives.

Being a fugitive in England means little to the US unless they are told about it and extradition requests are made. I suppose if Interpol lists them as fugitives from justice, then the authorities would take some action to round them up. Maybe not even do that though.

I would fully support extraditing anybody that a request is issued for, if it is in accordance with the extradition treaty.

As far as media coverage is concerned, I must confess I know little about it. The situation in Ireland was not something that bore any interest to me at the time. In addition in 1974 I moved to Iran and haven't been in the US but very little since then. I'm much more current on affairs now than ever thanks to the internet.

Have a read at this story..........

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news9244.html

I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this one.

I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this one.

Probably because the peace in NI is still fragile and having the government in London openly chasing terrorists (or former terrorists) in the US, where they have been for several years, and bringing them back to the UK would stir up trouble in NI again - more people would help/join the small cells of die-hard Republicans who still see terror as the means to achieve their aims. The UK government may be prepared to allow these (now US resident) people to go free, unless they return to the British Isles.

It's a bit of a sore point......Americans are allowing vicious terrorists to live among them, in as much as JT is correct to say that we should make more noise, surely US law enforcement can see the absurdity of this position?

To me? It's a fear of upsetting the Plastic Paddy vote...........US politicians have calculated it's better to leave alone than to stand by the principles the country was founded on.

I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this one.

Probably because the peace in NI is still fragile and having the government in London openly chasing terrorists (or former terrorists) in the US, where they have been for several years, and bringing them back to the UK would stir up trouble in NI again - more people would help/join the small cells of die-hard Republicans who still see terror as the means to achieve their aims. The UK government may be prepared to allow these (now US resident) people to go free, unless they return to the British Isles.

The flip side of that though is that the US are harbouring terrorists that were trained and supplied by Libya, and enemy of the US state...........surely that must be of some concern?

It's considered a very stale issue in the U.S. If there is noise to be made it would have to be made externally. The U.S. isn't the first or only country to display hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is a core part of the general human condition.

It's considered a very stale issue in the U.S. If there is noise to be made it would have to be made externally. The U.S. isn't the first or only country to display hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is a core part of the general human condition.

The noise is now starting to bubble up......

http://www.securitynewsdesk.com/2013/04/17/opinion-noraid-supporters-must-examine-their-consciences-over-ira/

America must wake up to this travesty.

The link is faulty....search for securitynewsdesk.com IRA