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Fried chicken takeaway called 'Hitler' opens in Thailand


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Posted

someone else called dachau a death camp. also not true. the death camps were all in the east. dachau was a normal prison KZ, but not set up for mass termination with gas chambers and all that.

If you wanna keep up the memory and things should be never be forgotten then you should memorize that in full accuracy and not turn into somekind of hollywood movie version of history.

If history is told with those inaccuracy it makes it only easy for the deniers and revisionists to play their trade.

You don't know what you're talking about, Dachau was,in the early stages of the war, a normal prison, subsequently it became a renowned death camp, do your research.

It would be better to prove your case rather than telling others to 'do their research' - that's the lazy way out

And it would be better if you were to usefully comment on the subject matter rather than critique the style and method of comments made by Bluespunk, myself and others!

I'm presuming the irony that this applies to you as well is lost on you

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Posted (edited)

My guess is they know but it's just they think he was a cool dictator. Nothing wrong with that. But kinda tacky.

BTW, I don't know why everybody gets "offended" by the sight of Hitler. He was a German nationalist. He did what he did. It's history and he's long dead now. I mean, would you be offended by the sight of a picture of Genghis Khan? I wouldn't.

you really should read previous posts before coming out with this sort of statement.

Where do you get the arrogance from to tell him to read previous posts in reference to his view - perhaps you should read the differing views on this topic - judging by your pathetic admonition . . . you haven't.

Because this thread has gone to 20 plus pages because of a comment like this already and yes if you take a tiny look you'll see i have posted throughout them. I have read them all. As for arrogance---yes I guess I was, but I'm not alone in that am I?

I didn't doubt that you have read through them - so why do you suggest that another poster hadn't as a form of invalidating their opinion? That's a pathetic form of argumentation - and as for arrogance . . . no, you're not alone but why would you want to join that crowd?

If you didn't doubt I had read them, why in your post did you say I hadn't? As for the other poster, the comment indicating their indifference to the genocide that happened in the Second World War was in effect to the same one made by another poster on page 1. It was not hard to spot with even minimal reading. As for arrogance, it was more frustration, something this thread has caused me a lot of with the number of "it's in the past, move" on arguments I've heard. But we should all be aware of arrogance, all of us.

Edited by Bluespunk
Posted

If you didn't doubt I had read them, why in your post did you say I hadn't? As for the other poster, the comment indicating their indifference to the genocide that happened in the Second World War was in effect to the same one made by another poster on page 1. It was not hard to spot with even minimal reading. As for arrogance, it was more frustration, something this thread has caused me a lot of with the number of "it's in the past, move" on arguments I've heard. But we should all be aware of arrogance, all of us.

I was being facetious. . . and if we get upset about similar opinions being voiced more than once we'd have both a very small forum and very frustrated posters . . .

As for arrogance - guilty as well at times. sad.png

  • Like 1
Posted

I thought the atomic bombs on Japan was after the war was effectively over and an appallingly murderous attack on Japan to demonstrate to Russia that America was the big boy in the street.

that is also what i learned in school.

Wrong. Invasion of the Jap Home Islands, starting with Kyushu, was then estimated at 1 Million Casualties for the Allies. The Atomic Bombs dropped on Japan prevented Genocide of the Japanese people. The Japanese leaders had committed to what they called 'Katsugo', which meant that everyone would fight to the death. Civilians too. Which included children, using makeshift weapons such as sharpened sticks, fighting to the death alongside soldiers. The unequalled brutality and savagery of the Pacific Campaign seriously worried the Americans, who wondered whether or not they would have to kill every last one of them to achieve victory. Truman said to suffer so many allied casualties in doing so, when they had in their arsenal a weapon that could end it , would have been irresponsible and unforgivable. How could he have faced the people.

That's quite a deranged view of history - but then you're self-educated . . . or did you go to the 'best university in the world'? Can one do both?

Off topic, but I'll try and contribute - OK by Mods?:

From the Truman library and his hand written notes Truman stated the decision for the use of the atomic weapons was to cause the military defeat of Japan. Even after the two attacks using atomic bombs the Japanese still delayed surrender, so a massive convention area bombing (terror bombing) of Tokyo took place - the Japanese then formally unconditionally surrendered on condition that the Emperor would remain. Remember that Kyoto was initially on the target list, but was removed due to concerns of the physiological impact on the Japanese people and further hardening of attitude. It is interesting to note that in Truman’s notes he stated he was not convinced the use of area bombing of Japan was effective in realising US war aims.

Some historians claim the Soviet attack on Manchuria was more influential on the Japanese decision to surrender than the atomic bombing as it would cut off necessary supplies to continue the war effort. It is claimed the Japanese decision makers were unconcerned regards homeland civilians casualties. The Soviets did not cease military operations after the surrender; they continued their attacks on Japanese forces until they finally captured Manchuria and the Kurilian islands.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

My mother is Jewish and she lost many cousins and family members during the Holocaust, providing of course you`re not a Holocaust denier and actually believe that millions of innocent people were brutishly murdered for no apparent reason than being labelled as something.

So for me, considering that if the Nazis would have invaded England during WW2, and that my family may have ended up as a pair of leather boots or a bar of soap, I find these Hitler images (however humorous) as intimidating and an insult to all the nationalities, including the Germans, who fought, suffered and died during that shitty war,

So I suppose the ways that people regard these images depends on how severely their elderly relatives or ancestors were affected during those times and what side of the fence you`re on.

My personal belief is; that the atrocities committed by Nazis and their collaborators during the war should never be forgotten and never be forgiven, as long as all this is still in living memory.

There can be nothing humorous about a brutal, crazed, mass murderer, in any shape or form.

the soap bar story is a myth. never happened.

Bored of this now.

I`m going to watch some porn and have a couple of beers.

Much more fun.

someone else called dachau a death camp. also not true. the death camps were all in the east. dachau was a normal prison KZ, but not set up for mass termination with gas chambers and all that.

If you wanna keep up the memory and things should be never be forgotten then you should memorize that in full accuracy and not turn into somekind of hollywood movie version of history.

If history is told with those inaccuracy it makes it only easy for the deniers and revisionists to play their trade.

Oh...they were just shot and used for medical experiments or died of exhaustion and starvation.

So you can not really call it a death- camp, right?!

By the way: there also was gas- chamber, though it might not have been in use, before the camp was liberated.

As I said before: some of you really should know, what they are talking about before posting.

Not a death camp, (...)!

Edited by angiud
words
  • Like 1
Posted

Dachau was a holiday camp, fancy people insinuating they had anything to do with death......even the long march to hell, when the Nazis fled with their 7,000 captives, most of whom died, was merely strength training!

Throughout the Holocaust, several concentration and death camps facilitated forced medical experiments on their prisoners. Dachau was no exception to this policy. The medical experiments conducted at Dachau were ostensibly aimed at improving military survival rates and bettering medical technology for German civilians.

These experiments were usually exceptionally painful and unneeded. For example, Nazi Dr. Sigmund Rascher subjected some prisoners to high altitude experiments using pressure chambers, while he forced others to undergo freezing experiments so that their reactions to hypothermia could be observed. Still other prisoners were forced to drink saltwater during efforts to determine its drinkability. Many of these prisoners died from the experiments.

Nazi Dr. Claus Schilling hoped to create a vaccine for malaria and thus injected over a thousand prisoners with the disease. Other prisoners at Dachau were experimented on with tuberculosis.

  • Like 1
Posted

someone else called dachau a death camp. also not true. the death camps were all in the east. dachau was a normal prison KZ, but not set up for mass termination with gas chambers and all that.

If you wanna keep up the memory and things should be never be forgotten then you should memorize that in full accuracy and not turn into somekind of hollywood movie version of history.

If history is told with those inaccuracy it makes it only easy for the deniers and revisionists to play their trade.

You don't know what you're talking about, Dachau was,in the early stages of the war, a normal prison, subsequently it became a renowned death camp, do your research.

In the all the twelve years Dachau KZ existed died less people than in one month in Auschwitz (or in one night in Dresden)

Auschwitz was a death camp, an extermination camp , but Dachau KZ, horrible as it was, not.

I can see from you wrote subsequently that we might be talking at cross purposes to some extent, Dachau was not a mass extermination camp in the same way that Auschwitz was, the majority of these were actually based in Poland as I recall, so as not to offend the sensibilities of the civilian German population. But Dachau was still a death camp in as much as it housed political, European royalty and religous prisoners as well as some jews and some 30,000 prisoners died there, mostly through over crowding and disease although the likes of Joesf Mengle also used Dachau as a base from which to conduct his medical experiments.

  • Like 2
Posted

it's the education system. I don't think these people actually admire Hitler but it's possible the school history syllabus didn't cover what he did and the millions he murdered.

At least the chicken is pretty good...

I think the point is they don't care what he did. (In reality neither do I, and neither did Prince Harry of the UK, and the uniforms look pretty snappy)
I'm sorry, but are you really saying you don't care what hitler did?
Don't care at all, nor do I care what Genghis Khan, Slobodan Milosevic, Stalin, the Japanese, the IRA, Pol Pot, et al did.

It's in the past, forgive and forget.

I will one up you; if your child or family member gets their limbs and head blown off by a suicide bomber I will not care at all, at some point it will be in the past so I will not care in advancethumbsup.gif

Posted (edited)

24 pages! 580 posts! And most people are probably thinking that this is all about 'Hitler', about some lousy 6 letters or about fried chicken!

I think nobody here cares much for cheap stunt pulled by some cheap restaurant owner. And it isn't his poor education we are discussing here either.

Let's face it, Neo-Nazism is alive and well in many countries from USA to Russia including Japan, Germany etc. Some of these Neo-Nazis say that Holocaust has never happened. Some of these Neo-Nazis say that not enough people have been exterminated. Some of these Neo-Nazis say they don't care what happened - it was in the past, let's forgive and forget.

I am very happy to see the numbers of Neo-Nazis here on TV in clear minority and not being popular.

As to fried chicken 'a la Hitler' with fried chips 'Goebbels style' under sauce 'Ribbentrop' - this is a matter of taste, of course... after all what's in a word? Nothing... or Everything!

BTW, one can make a whole bouquet of flags and stick it on top of his car, but miss the Diplomatic Immunity. Or one can mix three colors in various combinations of stars and stripes yet become neither American nor Thai. Or, better still, arithmetic and genetics never mix well - add an American to a Thai and you may get anything - from one American to one Thai with various degrees of a Nazi in-between.

Edited by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of bold font removed.
  • Like 1
Posted

Perfect venue for historical rewrites?

I think not.

Some historians may think things,

but usually the MAJORITY of historians have the real story

Posted

AnotherOneAmerican, on 05 Jul 2013 - 17:55, said:snapback.png

gl555, on 05 Jul 2013 - 17:52, said:snapback.png

it's the education system. I don't think these people actually admire Hitler but it's possible the school history syllabus didn't cover what he did and the millions he murdered.
At least the chicken is pretty good...

I think the point is they don't care what he did. (In reality neither do I, and neither did Prince Harry of the UK, and the uniforms look pretty snappy)

I'm sorry, but are you really saying you don't care what hitler did?

From one American to another , if the genocide, rapes, tortures, heinous medical experiments, gassing and other horrors had happened to you and your kin , would you still NOT care? people who forget the past, are bound to repeat history.

Posted

I think this topic should be closed, as I/we are not allowed to say what I/we would like to say. In fact why open a topic like this at all if major points regarding it are taboo. sad.png

I don't think anything related to this topic is covered by Thai law. Beyond that, if what you say angers people you should either say it and take the crticism or not.

There is no law that guarantees you immunity from criticism.

Posted (edited)

From one American to another , if the genocide, rapes, tortures, heinous medical experiments, gassing and other horrors had happened to you and your kin , would you still NOT care? people who forget the past, are bound to repeat history.

American soldiers under the orders of Obama are still doing that sort of stuff everyday.

Explain to me why you think is it OK for Obama to do that to Muslims, but not OK for Hitler to have done that to Jews?

(I don't think it's OK for anyone to do that sort of stuff, no matter whose army the aggressors are in, or what race or religion the victims are)

In my opinion, better for us to worry about the people doing that stuff right now, rather than worry about the guys that did it 70 years ago.

Oh really, "everyday"? And how much time did you spend with the troops in country? What did YOU see? Did you and your buddies commit such atrocities? I'm sure the Al Jazeerah or Russia Today crowd gets a regular dose of this crap, but most people know better. You would honestly compare the activities of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to Hitler's treatment of the Jews??!! There's a My Lai or some soldier pisses on a corpse, and suddeny all American troops are just like the Nazis or the Communists, and there's a complete moral equivalence between the US and the Nazis, or the US and North Vietnam. If some nutjob foreigners commit crimes in Thailand, should we conclude that all foreigners should be tarred by that brush? People just love to take their anecdotal knowledge and spew grand righteous indictments to rationalize their wingnut views. Yeah, there are always going to be a few bad apples, but the Nazis & Japanese weren't just a few bad apples, and American or other coalition troops should no way be compared to them.

This business with the fried chicken stand, and Nazi paraphernalia in Thailand, IS offensive to many (maybe most) people, and the brutality, the evil and abject inhumanity that was Hitler and his Nazi thugs was such that I believe this taking of offense is justifiable and should be honored. I'm NOT saying govt should step in and close the place down. It should instead be a matter of decent people doing exactly what decent people are doing (and saying) right here. Vocalize and share the outrage - share why you think people should stay away simply out of a sense of decency and encourage others to do the same. But then - it's a matter of each individual's own conscience. I've personally got no use for a person who'd patronize such a place as this, but it takes all kinds, or so they say...

Edited by hawker9000
Posted (edited)

This business with the fried chicken stand, and Nazi paraphernalia in Thailand, IS offensive to many (maybe most) people, and the brutality, the evil and abject inhumanity that was Hitler and his Nazi thugs was such that I believe this taking of offense is justifiable and should be honored. I'm NOT saying govt should step in and close the place down. It should instead be a matter of decent people doing exactly what decent people are doing (and saying) right here. Vocalize and share the outrage - share why you think people should stay away simply out of a sense of decency and encourage others to do the same. But then - it's a matter of each individual's own conscience. I've personally got no use for a person who'd patronize such a place as this, but it takes all kinds, or so they say...

You are wrong!

'Is offensive to some foreigners' may be correct, Thai people don't care.

If foreigners are offended by things they see in Thailand, nobody is making them stay in Thailand.

One of the funny little quirks about Thai people.

If you point out a big disaster in a foreign country where many were killed.

Thai people will say, 'were any dead related to me', if you push a bit more they say, 'did I know any of the dead', their final comment will be, 'were any of the dead Thai'. If the answer to all three questions were 'no', they won't care or show much interest.

Edited by AnotherOneAmerican
Posted

it's the education system. I don't think these people actually admire Hitler but it's possible the school history syllabus didn't cover what he did and the millions he murdered.

At least the chicken is pretty good...

My guess is they know but it's just they think he was a cool dictator. Nothing wrong with that. But kinda tacky.

BTW, I don't know why everybody gets "offended" by the sight of Hitler. He was a German nationalist. He did what he did. It's history and he's long dead now. I mean, would you be offended by the sight of a picture of Genghis Khan? I wouldn't.

Actually there's a guy near us who was going to open a themed restaurant called Genghis Khan's Gin Kao with a logo that looks remarkably like Yul Brynner.

Do you reckon that'd work?

Posted (edited)

I was going to post something but it was related to the topic

and had nothing to do with history, nonhistory, or offending someone. blink.png

Edited by jamhar
Posted

From one American to another , if the genocide, rapes, tortures, heinous medical experiments, gassing and other horrors had happened to you and your kin , would you still NOT care? people who forget the past, are bound to repeat history.

American soldiers under the orders of Obama are still doing that sort of stuff everyday.

Explain to me why you think is it OK for Obama to do that to Muslims, but not OK for Hitler to have done that to Jews?

(I don't think it's OK for anyone to do that sort of stuff, no matter whose army the aggressors are in, or what race or religion the victims are)

In my opinion, better for us to worry about the people doing that stuff right now, rather than worry about the guys that did it 70 years ago.

We have to look at what happened 70 years ago too, keep that in mind and not repeat it. Unfortunately the is a problem with the 'not repeat it' part. people have to open their eyes here too and understand what is wrong.

  • Like 1
Posted

That guy has not much clue about history.

Once he said his uncle liberated Auschwitz. another time he said Auschwitz was a polish camp.

As i said before if some here want belittle Thais and accusing them to be ignorant towards European history, make sure you know your own stuff well.

Auschwitz (Oświęcim) is in Poland.

Posted (edited)

The source of Big Lie technique is this passage, taken from Chapter 10 of James Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf:

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

All this was inspired by the principle, which is quite true within itself, that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

look at the youtube video.(at 0:25) the big lie quote there is totally different. "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it ." thats a fabrication. Hitler never said that.

But it's often quoted by the Hitler experts of the internets. and only the English part of the internet.

one a side note, in that Mein Kampf passage Hitler accused his political enemies, the Jewish Marxists to use the big lie technique.

And before lecturing Thais and complain that they know so little and are so ignorant about European History, make sure you know your own stuff well.

My Father was an American Catholic of Irish and Scottish decent and my mother English Jewish of Dutch decent AND PROUD and for those who have any prejudices against certain people because of their nationality or religion, is their problem. A least one fact is sure, the Nazis and their Jap allies lost big time, dust-to-dust, ashes to ashes, and unlike the phoenix, will never rise to power again. The present problem is like a cancer, some of that Nazi ideology is still carried in the tiny minds of certain individuals today and can even find justification behind Hitler’s policies of so-called race purification or as later became known as, ethnic cleansing in it`s most brutal form.

The fact is that under Hitler and his Nazi regime, millions of innocent people were murdered, children, young and old, no one was exempt, which is a fact, regardless of where most were killed. And this is why many people find these Hitler parodies offensive. There can be nothing humorous about a mass murderer and the sufferings endured by his victims.

Anyone who tries to tone down the atrocities of the Nazis and make light of it, or deny it ever happened, including using Nazi images for the promoting of a business, is either an extreme right-winger or a crank, there is no in-between. It`s that simple.

It is interesting to observe what these themed threads, that often act as a platform for the cranks, the brain dead and the far right, bring crawling out of the woodwork, because the same old prejudices and ills are still within many today, whether it be, Thai bashers, anti Semites or homophobics and all the rest of the crap that goes with it. It`s all there and with just a small amount of prompting will come to the surface.

An experiment:

I fully expect to receive some crank responses from this post, just sit back and observe and let us see what side of the fence some members are on. Bet I`m right?

Edited by Beetlejuice
  • Like 1
Posted

The source of Big Lie technique is this passage, taken from Chapter 10 of James Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf:

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.

All this was inspired by the principle, which is quite true within itself, that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

look at the youtube video.(at 0:25) the big lie quote there is totally different. "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it ." thats a fabrication. Hitler never said that.

But it's often quoted by the Hitler experts of the internets. and only the English part of the internet.

one a side note, in that Mein Kampf passage Hitler accused his political enemies, the Jewish Marxists to use the big lie technique.

And before lecturing Thais and complain that they know so little and are so ignorant about European History, make sure you know your own stuff well.

My Father was an American Catholic of Irish and Scottish decent and my mother English Jewish of Dutch decent AND PROUD and for those who have any prejudices against certain people because of their nationality or religion, is their problem. A least one fact is sure, the Nazis and their Jap allies lost big time, dust-to-dust, ashes to ashes, and unlike the phoenix, will never rise to power again. The present problem is like a cancer, some of that Nazi ideology is still carried in the tiny minds of certain individuals today and can even find justification behind Hitler’s policies of so-called race purification or as later became known as, ethnic cleansing in it`s most brutal form.

The fact is that under Hitler and his Nazi regime, millions of innocent people were murdered, children, young and old, no one was exempt, which is a fact, regardless of where most were killed. And this is why many people find these Hitler parodies offensive. There can be nothing humorous about a mass murderer and the sufferings endured by his victims.

Anyone who tries to tone down the atrocities of the Nazis and make light of it, or deny it ever happened, including using Nazi images for the promoting of a business, is either an extreme right-winger or a crank, there is no in-between. It`s that simple.

It is interesting to observe what these themed threads, that often act as a platform for the cranks, the brain dead and the far right, bring crawling out of the woodwork, because the same old prejudices and ills are still within many today, whether it be, Thai bashers, anti Semites or homophobics and all the rest of the crap that goes with it. It`s all there and with just a small amount of prompting will come to the surface.

Calling Japanese people "Japs" is one of the cancer thing.

Why, I am English but folk call me a Brit. rolleyes.gif

Posted

I think its brilliant. It certainly got a lot of free publicity..

How anyone can take offense to something that is obviously ridiculing the bloke

its like drawing a cock or a pair of glases on a photo of someone you don't like!!!.

I don't think you get it, but, whatever ...

(I don't think the intention was ridiculing Hitler.)

As said before, nobody here is seriously against fried chicken, fried chips or 'Hitler' name.

The dogfight is between apologists of Fascism and those who are against it.

If you do not see this you are making an Epic mistake. Sorry.facepalm.gif

Indeed.
  • Like 1
Posted
Actually there's a guy near us who was going to open a themed restaurant called Genghis Khan's Gin Kao with a logo that looks remarkably like Yul Brynner.

Do you reckon that'd work?

Proposed marketing-slogan ... "Eat my Food, and your Hair will Grow Back" ... might well work ? rolleyes.gif

Posted

It's not exclusive to Thailand. I have seen this kind of thing in Taiwan. They had a restaurant there like this. I have a Hitler cartoon thing for a kids book showing the country 'Germany' knocking around somewhere from a friend who lived there.

I once saw a grown man in Taipei dressed as an SS officer walking in the street.

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