Islam itself, together with the vast majority of Muslims, does not.

No doubt get a ban but I cannot let this level of stupidity upon seeing it go unchecked. If someone is unable to discern between Islam and Muslim's then they should be subject to ridicule. I've backed off from the thread because it has become very off topic but it does reach a point where I DO have to say something on the basis of reason.

This is where I will likely get banned. You have no idea whatsoever and this has been shown by your inability to even provide links AKA proof in some way with regard to anything you say. If you cannot even provide a reasonable argument without proof or links then I suggest you back away. It is patently obvious that your understanding of Islam is shallow as it your understanding of Muslims.

However, I could be wrong. Put forward a good argument if you like.

I refer you to the many links that I have provided throughout this, and similar, topics to ordinary Muslims' opinions as well as those to Muslim leaders and scholars.

If you can't be bothered to read them, that is your problem, not mine.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can lead the ignorant to knowledge, but you can't make them think."

I refer you to the many links that I have provided throughout this, and similar, topics to ordinary Muslims' opinions as well as those to Muslim leaders and scholars.

If you can't be bothered to read them, that is your problem, not mine.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can lead the ignorant to knowledge, but you can't make them think."

Thing is, you can't even formulate your own argument so rely on others and argue their point.

Do you believe the pony you're posting?

I have, as you put it, formulated my own argument. An argument based upon facts rather than ignorant prejudice and an argument backed up with proper evidence from ordinary people and experts and scholars in their field rather than the cranks others have relied upon.

Do you believe the pony you're posting?

I have, as you put it, formulated my own argument. An argument based upon facts rather than ignorant prejudice and an argument backed up with proper evidence from ordinary people and experts and scholars in their field rather than the cranks others have relied upon.

Regurgitating is not the same as formulating.

Yes, I know the situation in that part of the world is far more complex than that. I wrote it to show the dangers of simplifying a very complex situation without looking at the whole picture.

Idiocy personified. With all due respect, a comment such as this epitomises contempt of reason to such a degree that it makes a thinking person want to vomit. Let me give you an example of your reasoning... When I need to pee I go to the toilet and do it, you however just have a 'pee' there and then without regard toward others.

Sorry, need to post off of multiple computers.

I don't want to live in a Britain that prizes its cows more than its Jews

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100262351/i-dont-want-to-live-in-a-britain-that-prizes-its-cows-more-than-its-jews/

I was going to try and edit in the time allowed but I'll just link to it soon.

True spin if I have ever seen it.

In a culture where animals matter more than people, and a lot more than religious people, halal and kosher are verboten. Already, we have Denmark banning ritual slaughter. Jews and Muslims in the country are outraged and have staged protests to no avail.

Denmark bans kosher and halal slaughter as minister for agriculture and food Dan Jørgensen says animal rights come before religion. This should read that the exemption given to religious belief has been closed.

Imagine a situation where slavery was banned except for those with religious belief. Would that be acceptable?

Back to the article.....

Commenting on the change, Israels deputy minister of religious services Rabbi Eli Ben Dahan told the Jewish Daily Forward: European anti-Semitism is showing its true colours across Europe, and is even intensifying in the government institutions.

People object on moral grounds.

So in Denmark now both Kosher and Halal butchers are out of business? Or can ritually slaughtered meat be brought in from other countries? Religious slaughterhouses in Denmark must now close? How many families are now without an income? All to appease people who burn down laboratories that develop medecines that can save many human lives.

As all animal slaughter is cruel, why not ban ALL meat production? Oh, I forgot. Pig meat is an essential export of the Danes. (Who are no longer Vikings).

Strange attitude from a people who protected their Jewish population when occupied by Germany. Now they have turned 180 degrees.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Do you believe the pony you're posting?

I have, as you put it, formulated my own argument. An argument based upon facts rather than ignorant prejudice and an argument backed up with proper evidence from ordinary people and experts and scholars in their field rather than the cranks others have relied upon.

Regurgitating is not the same as formulating.

Yes, I know the situation in that part of the world is far more complex than that. I wrote it to show the dangers of simplifying a very complex situation without looking at the whole picture.

Idiocy personified. With all due respect, a comment such as this epitomises contempt of reason to such a degree that it makes a thinking person want to vomit. Let me give you an example of your reasoning... When I need to pee I go to the toilet and do it, you however just have a 'pee' there and then without regard toward others.

May I suggest that you sober up before posting next time; you are now simply making a fool of yourself.

And what is now appearing to possibly be an act of terror, there's an Iranian link to the missing Malaysia airplane.

What a surprise!

http://news.yahoo.com/paper-reveals-iranian-ticket-purchase-passengers-stolen-passports-133515565.html;_ylt=A0SO8xqd_h1Te0oArTRx.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTByNzhwY2hkBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--

And yes, it could still have been an accident but as Iran is a proven sponsor of terrorism, it doesn't look good.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

And what is now appearing to possibly be an act of terror, there's an Iranian link to the missing Malaysia airplane.

What a surprise!

http://news.yahoo.com/paper-reveals-iranian-ticket-purchase-passengers-stolen-passports-133515565.html;_ylt=A0SO8xqd_h1Te0oArTRx.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTByNzhwY2hkBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--

And yes, it could still have been an accident but as Iran is a proven sponsor of terrorism, it doesn't look good.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

They've not found any wreckage. They have no evidence at all as to the cause of the disappearance. All that's appearing in the media is pure supposition unsupported by any evidence. In other words, at the moment, they're making it up as they go along.

They've not found any wreckage. They have no evidence at all as to the cause of the disappearance. All that's appearing in the media is pure supposition unsupported by any evidence. In other words, at the moment, they're making it up as they go along.

Reminds me of something else too.

The cause of the disappearance is speculation.

The Iranian link to the stolen passports isn't.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

And what is now appearing to possibly be an act of terror, there's an Iranian link to the missing Malaysia airplane.

What a surprise!

http://news.yahoo.com/paper-reveals-iranian-ticket-purchase-passengers-stolen-passports-133515565.html;_ylt=A0SO8xqd_h1Te0oArTRx.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTByNzhwY2hkBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--

And yes, it could still have been an accident but as Iran is a proven sponsor of terrorism, it doesn't look good.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

US & other security organisations have now largely dismissed an on-board terrorist attack; do not know why they have reached this conclusion. However it would not make any sense for Iranian state sponsored terrorism to target Chinese nationals given the current political & other support Iran is receiving from China. So far the Iranian connection has been put down to asylum seekers trying to gain entry to EU countries. Apparently it’s fairly common to transit via China using false documentation produced in Thailand, where the two stolen passport holders allegedly originated for the connecting flight out of KL.

So in Denmark now both Kosher and Halal butchers are out of business? Or can ritually slaughtered meat be brought in from other countries? Religious slaughterhouses in Denmark must now close? How many families are now without an income? All to appease people who burn down laboratories that develop medecines that can save many human lives.

As all animal slaughter is cruel, why not ban ALL meat production? Oh, I forgot. Pig meat is an essential export of the Danes. (Who are no longer Vikings).

Strange attitude from a people who protected their Jewish population when occupied by Germany. Now they have turned 180 degrees.

Religious Rights More Important Than Animal Rights - Clegg

"I emphatically do not agree with what they have done in Denmark and no government of which I am a part will follow suit," Mr Clegg responded.

[...]

"I disagree [John Blackwell]. I disagree with him that we basically remove the right of Jewish communities in this country, Muslim communities in this country to stick to their religious beliefs about how they prepare food and how animals are slaughtered."

[...]

"Where they can be stunned, they should be stunned, but I am not going to ever advocate that we remove the deeply held beliefs amongst members of our Jewish community and Muslim communties - and these are ancient beliefs, handed down over generations - that somehow we should now, as they have done in Denmark, prohibit them from following their practices and their beliefs.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/religious-rights-more-important-than-animal-rights---clegg-87001

Specifically "and these are ancient beliefs, handed down over generations". That is not an argument but an observation. Just because something has been believed for a considerable time or believed by a large number of people does not make it true nor does it make it moral. As an MP he should be taken to task for this facile bit of rubbish.

As I mentioned earlier, ritual slaughter for a couple of religious groups (based purely on size) is given an exemption solely on the grounds that it will dry their eyes. There are already regulations in place regarding animal slaughter and the welfare of said animals which have been agreed by EU member states which I presume both you and Mr. Clegg would rather get rid of in the interest of fairness?

Why is slavery which is endorsed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam not given an equal exemption?

As for halal; do you also object to the virtually identical shechita?

The head of the British Veterinary Association does: Ritual animal slaughter change urged.

Of course! Why wouldn't I?

So, does this mean that you consider Judaism to be as 'alien to British culture' as you do Islam?

Don't think Steely Dan will agree with you on that!

Indeed be careful walking through Golders Green, it's a Kosher controlled zone where you are likely to be stoned to death if found eating a bacon sandwich.

A guy called Topol heads an arranged marriage syndicate with threats of death issued to girls who refuse marriage to a groom twice their age and three times their weight. Trying to use other cultures as a beard to hide behind for a backwards, misogynistic and supremacist ideology is as amusing as it is transparent.

Steely Dan, thank you for proving my point about ignorant prejudice for me; although as it's been 4 days I must admit that I thought for a while you weren't going to!

Steely Dan, thank you for proving my point about ignorant prejudice for me; although as it's been 4 days I must admit that I thought for a while you weren't going to!

You never did comprehend what forum rule 4 states did you? Seeing as you are so keen on 'facts' unless they blow your argument out of the water here is a current study on honor killings.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

Islamic gender apartheid is a human rights violation and cannot be justified in the name of cultural relativism, tolerance, anti-racism, diversity, or political correctness. As long as Islamist groups continue to deny, minimize, or obfuscate the problem, and government and police officials accept their inaccurate versions of reality, women will continue to be killed for honor in the West.

Minimizing this issue with empty and misleading platitudes actually causes loss of life and immense suffering. I hope the dam breaks on this issue, as it has with grooming gangs.

Sorry, duplicate,

If you think that challenging you on the ignorant and prejudiced opinions you regularly post and showing that most of your 'proof' comes from right wing nut jobs is flaming; you know where the report button is.

While looking at the forum rules, perhaps you should read rule 7.

As for the Muslim position and teachings on honour killings, child brides, FGM, I have never said that such crimes don't exist, only that they are cultural, not religious and are committed by both Muslims and non Muslims. You seem to have missed this post quoting the Muslim teachings on all three.

Grooming just a Muslim crime? No.

Is child grooming and sexual abuse a race issue?

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men. Cases involving white suspects did not gain the same media attention as those where Asian gang members were convicted. (My emphasis)

The idea that these are criminals striking when the opportunity arises, regardless of race, is given credence by the leader of the grooming gang in Rochdale. Shabir Ahmed was jailed for attacking a young Asian female as well as young white females. His case suggests opportunity, not race, was the major factor in whom he attacked.

Leading British Muslim groups are vowing to take action. Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said it wanted imams to use sermons to urge Muslims to report anyone they suspected of grooming and abuse.

The MCB has organised a conference for next month. Mogra said: "It is not helpful to give a race or religious label to this criminality. Reporting it is a civic and a religious duty."

And what is now appearing to possibly be an act of terror, there's an Iranian link to the missing Malaysia airplane.

What a surprise!

http://news.yahoo.com/paper-reveals-iranian-ticket-purchase-passengers-stolen-passports-133515565.html;_ylt=A0SO8xqd_h1Te0oArTRx.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTByNzhwY2hkBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--

And yes, it could still have been an accident but as Iran is a proven sponsor of terrorism, it doesn't look good.

The cause of the disappearance is speculation.

The Iranian link to the stolen passports isn't.

Malaysia Airlines MH370: Stolen passports 'no terror link'

Experts have said the presence of two people with stolen passports on a plane was a breach of security, but one that is relatively common in a region regarded as a hub for illegal migration.

Malaysia's police chief, Inspector General Khalid Abu Bakar, said the younger Iranian was "not likely to be a member of a terrorist group", adding that the authorities were in contact with his mother in Germany, who had been expecting her son to arrive in Frankfurt.

Speaking in Paris later on Tuesday, Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said the two men had travelled from Qatar's capital Doha on their Iranian passports, and switched to stolen Italian and Austrian passports to board the Malaysia Airlines flight.

"The more information we get, the more we are inclined to conclude it is not a terrorist incident," he added.

The cause of the disappearance is speculation.

The Iranian link to the stolen passports isn't.

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Interpol seem to think they're asylum seekers...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/11/passengers-malaysian-plane-mh370-iranian-forged-passports

So in Denmark now both Kosher and Halal butchers are out of business? Or can ritually slaughtered meat be brought in from other countries? Religious slaughterhouses in Denmark must now close? How many families are now without an income? All to appease people who burn down laboratories that develop medecines that can save many human lives.

As all animal slaughter is cruel, why not ban ALL meat production? Oh, I forgot. Pig meat is an essential export of the Danes. (Who are no longer Vikings).

Strange attitude from a people who protected their Jewish population when occupied by Germany. Now they have turned 180 degrees.

Religious Rights More Important Than Animal Rights - Clegg

"I emphatically do not agree with what they have done in Denmark and no government of which I am a part will follow suit," Mr Clegg responded.

[...]

"I disagree [John Blackwell]. I disagree with him that we basically remove the right of Jewish communities in this country, Muslim communities in this country to stick to their religious beliefs about how they prepare food and how animals are slaughtered."

[...]

"Where they can be stunned, they should be stunned, but I am not going to ever advocate that we remove the deeply held beliefs amongst members of our Jewish community and Muslim communties - and these are ancient beliefs, handed down over generations - that somehow we should now, as they have done in Denmark, prohibit them from following their practices and their beliefs.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/religious-rights-more-important-than-animal-rights---clegg-87001

Specifically "and these are ancient beliefs, handed down over generations". That is not an argument but an observation. Just because something has been believed for a considerable time or believed by a large number of people does not make it true nor does it make it moral. As an MP he should be taken to task for this facile bit of rubbish.

As I mentioned earlier, ritual slaughter for a couple of religious groups (based purely on size) is given an exemption solely on the grounds that it will dry their eyes. There are already regulations in place regarding animal slaughter and the welfare of said animals which have been agreed by EU member states which I presume both you and Mr. Clegg would rather get rid of in the interest of fairness?

Why is slavery which is endorsed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam not given an equal exemption?

Indeed it's lucky we haven't been culturally enriched by the tribes of the Northern Amazon as we would then no doubt have Liberals defending their right to shrink heads. Coming to think of it maybe a few have arrived judging by posts made by some of the esteemed members of this forum.

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men.

Is it just me or can anyone else see the common denominator here?

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

Ah quoting out of context; the last refuge of the desperate.

Is child grooming and sexual abuse a race issue?

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men. Cases involving white suspects did not gain the same media attention as those where Asian gang members were convicted. (My emphasis)

The idea that these are criminals striking when the opportunity arises, regardless of race, is given credence by the leader of the grooming gang in Rochdale. Shabir Ahmed was jailed for attacking a young Asian female as well as young white females. His case suggests opportunity, not race, was the major factor in whom he attacked.

Leading British Muslim groups are vowing to take action. Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said it wanted imams to use sermons to urge Muslims to report anyone they suspected of grooming and abuse.

The MCB has organised a conference for next month. Mogra said: "It is not helpful to give a race or religious label to this criminality. Reporting it is a civic and a religious duty."

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men.

Is it just me or can anyone else see the common denominator here?

All human?

Some of the things said on this this thread have to be considered nothing less than mental self perjury.

Indeed it's lucky we haven't been culturally enriched by the tribes of the Northern Amazon as we would then no doubt have Liberals defending their right to shrink heads. Coming to think of it maybe a few have arrived judging by posts made by some of the esteemed members of this forum.

Kindly justify your remark by linking to any post made by someone you label Liberal (sic, it should be a lower case 'l') defending anyone's right to break the law.

As I've asked you to do so on many other occasions and you haven't; I'm not holding my breath.

Court cases later this year will see allegations against mixed race sex gangs, including one with Asian and white suspects, and another with Asian and African men.

Is it just me or can anyone else see the common denominator here?

All human?

Ok.

One gang were Asian and white. The other gang Asian and black. And the common denominator is..?

Also, I'm wondering what percentage of the first gang were white?

Indeed it's lucky we haven't been culturally enriched by the tribes of the Northern Amazon as we would then no doubt have Liberals defending their right to shrink heads. Coming to think of it maybe a few have arrived judging by posts made by some of the esteemed members of this forum.

Kindly justify your remark by linking to any post made by someone you label Liberal (sic, it should be a lower case 'l') defending anyone's right to break the law.

The post was in response to a post I made quoting Nick Clegg who is leader of the Liberal Democrat party who are presently in a coalition government with the Conservative party.

One gang were Asian and white. The other gang Asian and black. And the common denominator is..?

I'd say 'a(A)' because it appears the most times.