Thai PM calls elections as 100,000 join protests

[Ricardo]

It is clear that being anti democratic in this country pays off. What are the democrats with 4 million votes going to tell the 15 million who voted not for them? That they are stupid, uneducated, not rich enough?

"4 million votes"

In point of fact, the democrats got 11.4 million votes, in the 2011-election, which was considered an unusually poor performance for them.

But you got the PTP figure almost-right, they got 15.7 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011

Edited December 9, 2013 by Ricardo

[Tiffer]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here...

Think on it a while...

[Trembly]

100'000 my arse.

I didn't bother going out today but a few of my friends did, and their reports aggregate to a lot more (by estimation). Even without being there, a child could do a grid count on a few photos, time and location verified (the V For Thailand Facebook page is one source) and the number would be higher by several orders of magnitude.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Trembly

[digibum]

seperate isarn from Thailand or let people vote on basis of the tax they pay.. that would solve the problem.

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw

If the problem were as simple as this, it would be pretty easy to solve. However, you also have to factor in the fact that most of those who pay taxes do so using a lot of cheap labor that don't pay taxes.

Thailand is a country built on cheap labor. One way you can make labor cheap is not taxing the income of those at the bottom. In many ways, it's like a subsidy or welfare for those at the top, otherwise the employers or the market would have to incur the additional costs.

Also, there's more than normal market forces going on when the vast majority of the people don't pay taxes. In an economy with upward mobility you can offer tax breaks at the bottom in the expectation that by giving people a break they can move up and eventually become tax payers. But Thailand doesn't have the upward mobility so basically it acts as a way of keeping labor costs down so those at the top can earn higher profits which they pay taxes on.

It's not simply bad luck that Thailand has one of the worst educational systems in the world (for a country of its GDP). The poor aren't supposed to become educated and move up. They're supposed to settle for the crumbs left over from the rich.

I'm not a red supporter though. Far from it. I think that those who the reds claim to represent have become leeches. They don't want what's fair, they want whatever price Thaksin or any other politician is willing to pay for power. They want their piece of the corruption (which explains why several polls show that over half of Thais have no problem with corruption as long as they personally benefit from it).

I mean, how many Thais outside of Bangkok know someone other than their employer who pays taxes? You've got people who don't pay taxes, who's parents don't pay taxes, who don't have a single friend who pays taxes, and maybe, just maybe their boss pays some taxes. Would they really want all of the fuel and food subsidies (i.e. things like the rice scheme or the government setting food staple prices), or the better education, or the improved infrastructure, etc if they had to kick in for it? Probably not a lot of people would opt for that.

Even here back in the US, other than the 5-star places, there's not a single Thai restaurant in my city (and there are about 20 of them) that has a tax paying Thai working for them. All of the staff are here on student or marriage visas and would rather get paid a fraction of the wage under the table than get a paycheck and have to give the government a piece.

So basically what you've got now is multiple groups all fighting for a cut of a corrupt system. Nobody is focused on working their way out of this mess by producing a vision for the future of Thailand. Nobody cares about what happens to anyone else. It's all about grabbing what you can before the whole thing eventually implodes upon itself.

[Baerboxer]

It may appear an impressive turnout from the photos taken at a low angle because you can't see the gaps between individuals. The helicopter shots tell a different story. Anyone who has tried to get home after attending a big sports event with 50,000+ people will know the crowds look much bigger than the ones we can see today.

And how many people go home from attending sporting events by helicopter ??

If you're at ground level you have no way of estimating numbers like this.

I'm amazed at the amount of people I know who have joined in today. Not Democrat supporters, no paid, no coerced.

I would expect the real number to be very significant. Hence the little white lies again.

[JAG]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

 

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

 

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

 

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

 

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million 

 

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here... 

 

Think on it a while... 

Whilst thinking on it, it occurred to me that quite a lot of those 20 millions who help to create the wealth, are not allowed to vote in Bangkok but must return "up country" to there home provinces if they wish to vote. Now, if the system was reformed to allow them to vote where they currently live, perhaps there would be a bit more red in the Bangkok political mix? Worth thinking on a bit isn't it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaxLee]

Congratulation, you won Thaksin, your 180 days delay of your amnesty bill will not be in vain,...

[Crushdepth]

The reds on here don't seem to understand that only a small proportion of those who oppose what PT has and is doing to this country can get to BKK to protest.

They post that there are only so many in BKK out of 64 million but seem to want to forget that 11 million voted for the Dems last general election plus those who voted for the smaller parties, over 3 million for Newin alone.

There are many people here where I live who would like to be there but cant, some who are physically unable and many more who cant stop what they are doing, not only for themselves but for others who rely on them.

Hay a thought ; now that parliament is desolved Nattawat, Weng and all the other red leaders now have no parliamentary immunity.

Time for them to be rounded up and slung back into jail.

They have, along with Jatuporn, broken their bail conditions.

Some few people who may have liked to protest had to go to *work* instead.

Arisman is certainly heading for the can if the court gets hold of him.

[Baerboxer]

I have said it before and will say it again - Most of the so called PTP/redshirt supporters on this forum are trolls ! I refuse to believe that it is possible to have so many misguided people in any one place at any one time. If I am wrong then I made a big mistake moving to Thailand and starting a family. alt=thumbsup.gif pagespeed_url_hash=1443177670 width=25 height=19>

It's odd that we foreigners seem to mirror the debate the Thais are having themselves. You think Red supporters on here are trolls - I find it very hard to believe that you aren't a troll. How can you support a ruling Chinese/Thai elite that would like to kick out all foreigners (except themselves of course) and allow the power of their money to rule Thailand as it has for a 100 years. The Shins will be gone in a few years, once the people realise they aren't real socialists: then the dems will be the Tories/Republicans, anxious to maintain the status quo. Jutaporn and Veera will be the socialists seeking to tax the rich until the pips squeak and the Shins will be wishy-washy liberals with no constituency.

"Chinese Thai elite" --- by that you mean Thaksin, right?

That's the main reason they hate him so much. a renegade.

You may have something there. The others are happy to carve the spoils up among themselves. He want it all just for his family, no sharing.

A real renegade.

[jackrich]

If Suthep really has the majority of the country behind him, he should have no worries about winning the next election with a landslide. Why are the Democrats refusing the join the election then? Seems to me the easiest way to bring reforms is get elected and then pass your reforms since they would have an absolute majority, no?

[jackrich]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here...

Think on it a while...

Whilst thinking on it, it occurred to me that quite a lot of those 20 millions who help to create the wealth, are not allowed to vote in Bangkok but must return "up country" to there home provinces if they wish to vote. Now, if the system was reformed to allow them to vote where they currently live, perhaps there would be a bit more red in the Bangkok political mix? Worth thinking on a bit isn't it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Bangkok has 20 million and only 100,000 came out? So really, Suthep has only 5% of Bangkok supporting him. His cards are worse than I thought.

[fab4]

It is clear that being anti democratic in this country pays off. What are the democrats with 4 million votes going to tell the 15 million who voted not for them? That they are stupid, uneducated, not rich enough?

"4 million votes"

In point of fact, the democrats got 11.4 million votes, in the 2011-election, which was considered an unusually poor performance for them.

But you got the PTP figure almost-right, they got 15.7 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011

Which is more than 200,000 right?

[Crushdepth]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here...

Think on it a while...

Whilst thinking on it, it occurred to me that quite a lot of those 20 millions who help to create the wealth, are not allowed to vote in Bangkok but must return "up country" to there home provinces if they wish to vote. Now, if the system was reformed to allow them to vote where they currently live, perhaps there would be a bit more red in the Bangkok political mix? Worth thinking on a bit isn't it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Bangkok has 20 million and only 100,000 came out? So really, Suthep has only 5% of Bangkok supporting him. His cards are worse than I thought.

10 million (estimated).

150,000 (CAPO figure, political bias to heavy underweight).

5%...I will leave it to you to recalculate as a learning exercise!

[gerry1011]

This evening Suthep will declare a new "victory" to his bunch of naive followers.

What victory, it's difficult to find one, but he will surely have some insanity to bark at his exhilarated (and "educated") crowd, we can rest assured

In the meantime, PT will start to work at the next general elections, in which they will, as usual, be victorious again.

So, the next "upgrade" for Suthep and the Dems is to make everything they can to avoid the next elections.

That's going to be fun too  

Next protest: Say NO to elections !!!

 

So far, the government is doing no mistake, by eliminating one by one the silly pretexts used by Suthep and the Dems to gain power undemocratically.

After this, what are these insane people going to protest for?

What about more portable toilets in the gardens of the Government House?

I'll say one thing for you gerry, you're still in here pitching, even after all your friends have skidaddled.

On my side, apart from debating about a vague number of people taking a walk in Bangkok to topple an elected government, what I have to say is that I am not sure what I like most...

To post on this forum?

Or... to read the replies to my posts?

I guess the most entertaining part is to read the replies

[meechai]

If Suthep really has the majority of the country behind him, he should have no worries about winning the next election with a landslide. Why are the Democrats refusing the join the election then? Seems to me the easiest way to bring reforms is get elected and then pass your reforms since they would have an absolute majority, no?

They cant win an election & have not since 1992

So when a child cannot have what they demand they throw a tantrum.

They do not want a election even now as they know none except their small mob in comparison to

Thailand's population will vote for them

But putting aside the usual red/yellow rants....

For better or worse people vote for the guy with the best promises/lies

But if one looks at reality & looks at what each party has done for the people

who is ahead?

While Abhisit was "appointed" not elected PM what did he do for the people?

Nada, squat, zilch is it any wonder he was not only not elected when elections finally came round

but soundly beaten? Yeah yeah those that claim vote buying please grab a calculator. Then multiply what you

"heard" a vote costs & multiply it by the number of votes Yingluck got. Be realistic

How about the current PM? Any minimum wage increases? any reduction of corporate tax to offset the min wage increase burden?

Any health benefit improvements? Even allowing foreigners/migrant workers onto the 30 baht health plan

( although on hold now after being overwhelmed initially or perhaps due to BKK being under siege)

Any help to farmers? Any first time Car buyer rebates?

So that is politics. The guy with the best promises wins same anywhere in the free world.

Of course they need to deliver or they will not get re-elected.

(except for Obama of course )

Of course it is not my fight/country/vote so I have no say but if I did have a vote it would go to

the person that helps/helped Thailands citizens the most.

for better or worse?

I sure as heck would never vote for a party that thinks attacking a countries governments buildings

to force what it wants on everyone. That is just not the way it is done. If they dont have the brains to

run a slick campaign they dont have the brains to run a country.

Disclaimer: all the above is just an opinion & has no bearing on anything

Edited December 9, 2013 by meechai

[Centrum]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here...

Think on it a while...

Whilst thinking on it, it occurred to me that quite a lot of those 20 millions who help to create the wealth, are not allowed to vote in Bangkok but must return "up country" to there home provinces if they wish to vote. Now, if the system was reformed to allow them to vote where they currently live, perhaps there would be a bit more red in the Bangkok political mix? Worth thinking on a bit isn't it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Bangkok has 20 million and only 100,000 came out? So really, Suthep has only 5% of Bangkok supporting him. His cards are worse than I thought.

Looks like another winning hand vs Mr T, though.

How many years in exile? And how much money did he lose?

And now he's even further from his goals.

[Prbkk]

It's fair to say that this was a pretty good result. Almost a hundred thousand , Suthep should be satisfied. No-one injured. Let's hope the govt can get back to work and fix some of the damage done to the economy.

[dukeandduke]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

And when will posters learn that Thailand is bigger than 50 million

Anyway, the greater metropolitan area is home to almost 20 million which is almost 30% of the population and well over 80% of the wealth creation so it stands to reason that voices carry weight around here...

Think on it a while...

Whilst thinking on it, it occurred to me that quite a lot of those 20 millions who help to create the wealth, are not allowed to vote in Bangkok but must return "up country" to there home provinces if they wish to vote. Now, if the system was reformed to allow them to vote where they currently live, perhaps there would be a bit more red in the Bangkok political mix? Worth thinking on a bit isn't it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Bangkok has 20 million and only 100,000 came out? So really, Suthep has only 5% of Bangkok supporting him. His cards are worse than I thought.

That would be 0.5%

[Prbkk]

Yes, very low %. BBC and AFP have covered these events very well. They haven't been influenced by majoritarianism on TV

[personchester]

100,000 on the streets in a country of 50,000,000.

A small minority trying to impose their will on a large majority.

When will Bangkokians learn that Thailand is much bigger than just Bangkok?

Bangkok is not Thailand. It's a part of Thailand.

The Population in Thailand is not 50. Million it is in fact close to 70. Million

Many people support their parties, and disapprove of other parties and support this without taking part in street protests, the political result is outlined in a general election, this is well known, but if not acceptable to the "elite" then the army in instructed to take over as has happened many times.

Only a certain number of protesters 100,000 + for each "red shirt and yellow shirt" teams take part in street protests, and the general population will not take part in it.

The general population number (70.Million) can not be regarded as a balance against against the street protesters.

[gemguy]

When you read the headlines and absorb what we are being told including the many implications you wonder how the yellow shirt party expects to actually last for any lenght of time running the government if they keep on bullying their way through the political landscape.

I guess they simply can not get over the fact that their brand of politics is long out of favour and not liked at all by most of the citizens.

They are growing all the uglier like a band of immature but agressive brats that will not take no for answer.

They are doing themselves all the more harm than good in the long run.

If they do bully their way into parliament, how long do they think they will last as they will have to call for elections..sooner or later ( as before ) and it is almost assured they will not win the votes.

The yellow shirts may hate Thaksin and loath the man to no end and use him as a tool and means of rallying their supporters but they seemingly have no idea just how much they are loathed by Thai citizens who are more than well aware of who they are and what they represent and who they represent and what their agenda is.

The red shirts are the means to seriously confront the yellow shirts and many Thais do not like Thaksin at all but they like the fact the Red shirt party can and has thwarted the yellow shirts and their political cronies from having the control they used to have in the past, as in : "The times are a changin my friend " while the political landscape is not what it used to be and so much in favour of the old guard...not any more.

So what to they do...they flex their muscles a little more and bully their way about trying to convince the citizens they are here to protect them from the "evil doers" ( as George Bush Junior said )

I like to think I am neutral on the subject of Thai politics...but ......I am starting to lean towards the red shirts and hope they can some how out maneuver the yellow shirt agression.

[backtonormal]

BBC reported 5 millions

from the bbc website

Around 150,000 protesters are out on the streets of Bangkok, converging around Government House from several different directions.

you must have mis heard

[backtonormal]

This is no more about yellow vs. red. Even some red shirts got disappointed with Mr. and Ms. Shin and went with the people now. You see something happening that Thailand has not seen like this before. Even the students are back to the streets to. It is not that the people on the street do not want an elected parliament, it is about getting rid of the Shin Clan. New elections will end up in the same situation with the Shins robbing the country further. This is why there is this request for that council. However we all agree that this des not work and that the poeple to deal with it are not so much better then the Shins. Everything here is about some interest someone has in something. People here are aware of all this. They know that Suthep is not an angel but they do not see any other way to try to get rid of the man in Dubai and his cronies. People here are afraid that Thailand could end up like the Philippines. Surely not desirable. So they choose between Pest and Cholera. The choice is not good but the only one at the moment. So lets see how the 'kindergarden' goes and grows and what happens over the next days. The situation now is a little bit like a dead end but I think to mobilise between 500.000 and 1 mio people on a work day without paying them means at least something in this country.

It sounds like the epic Ben Hur movie...whatever I cant believe that normal leve; headed people are going to give away the one man one vote principle to be dictated to for a few decades

Edited December 9, 2013 by backtonormal

[whatsupdoc]

When you read the headlines and absorb what we are being told including the many implications you wonder how the yellow shirt party expects to actually last for any lenght of time running the government if they keep on bullying their way through the political landscape.

I guess they simply can not get over the fact that their brand of politics is long out of favour and not liked at all by most of the citizens.

They are growing all the uglier like a band of immature but agressive brats that will not take no for answer.

They are doing themselves all the more harm than good in the long run.

If they do bully their way into parliament, how long do they think they will last as they will have to call for elections..sooner or later ( as before ) and it is almost assured they will not win the votes.

The yellow shirts may hate Thaksin and loath the man to no end and use him as a tool and means of rallying their supporters but they seemingly have no idea just how much they are loathed by Thai citizens who are more than well aware of who they are and what they represent and who they represent and what their agenda is.

The red shirts are the means to seriously confront the yellow shirts and many Thais do not like Thaksin at all but they like the fact the Red shirt party can and has thwarted the yellow shirts and their political cronies from having the control they used to have in the past, as in : "The times are a changin my friend " while the political landscape is not what it used to be and so much in favour of the old guard...not any more.

So what to they do...they flex their muscles a little more and bully their way about trying to convince the citizens they are here to protect them from the "evil doers" ( as George Bush Junior said )

I like to think I am neutral on the subject of Thai politics...but ......I am starting to lean towards the red shirts and hope they can some how out maneuver the yellow shirt agression.

So many generalizations and plain misunderstandings. You might like to think you are neutral on the subject of Thai politics, I think you are clueless. First try to understand the difference between the yellow shirts, the protesters and the Democrat Party....

[penwithcris]

One post on this forum is advocating separating Isaan from Thailand. I presume he means that without the Isaan vote Pheu Thai would not be reelected to govern.

I would welcome Isaan being separated from Thailand for just one month. I would enjoy the chaos that this would cause to the rest of the country. Isaan is the beating heart of Thailand. Without it's workforce that toils hard to provide much of the food that the country eats, that operates the transport system, that carries out most of the unsung menial jobs in the nation, the country would swiftly grind to a halt

Let those that would decry the great service that Isaan people do for Thailand go hungry, go thirsty, go dirty,go nowhere.

The working classes have every right to help form a government through democratic elections.

Perhaps it is the complaining so called middle classes that should be cast adrift from the rest of Thai society. The small percentage of 'intellectuals' who believe it is their God given right to be the rulers of the country

[kingalfred]

It's fair to say that this was a pretty good result. Almost a hundred thousand , Suthep should be satisfied. No-one injured. Let's hope the govt can get back to work and fix some of the damage done to the economy.

dream on with your fake figure and any damage done to the economy by protests are miniscule in comparison to the governments damage and bankrupting it

[jackrich]

One post on this forum is advocating separating Isaan from Thailand. I presume he means that without the Isaan vote Pheu Thai would not be reelected to govern.

I would welcome Isaan being separated from Thailand for just one month. I would enjoy the chaos that this would cause to the rest of the country. Isaan is the beating heart of Thailand. Without it's workforce that toils hard to provide much of the food that the country eats, that operates the transport system, that carries out most of the unsung menial jobs in the nation, the country would swiftly grind to a halt

Let those that would decry the great service that Isaan people do for Thailand go hungry, go thirsty, go dirty,go nowhere.

The working classes have every right to help form a government through democratic elections.

Perhaps it is the complaining so called middle classes that should be cast adrift from the rest of Thai society. The small percentage of 'intellectuals' who believe it is their God given right to be the rulers of the country

My nomination for post of the day. Hats off.

[Prbkk]

It's fair to say that this was a pretty good result. Almost a hundred thousand , Suthep should be satisfied. No-one injured. Let's hope the govt can get back to work and fix some of the damage done to the economy.

dream on with your fake figure and any damage done to the economy by protests are miniscule in comparison to the governments damage and bankrupting it

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens during the election campaign regarding rice-pledging. PTP is caught well and truly with that...

[robblok]

One post on this forum is advocating separating Isaan from Thailand. I presume he means that without the Isaan vote Pheu Thai would not be reelected to govern.

I would welcome Isaan being separated from Thailand for just one month. I would enjoy the chaos that this would cause to the rest of the country. Isaan is the beating heart of Thailand. Without it's workforce that toils hard to provide much of the food that the country eats, that operates the transport system, that carries out most of the unsung menial jobs in the nation, the country would swiftly grind to a halt

Let those that would decry the great service that Isaan people do for Thailand go hungry, go thirsty, go dirty,go nowhere.

The working classes have every right to help form a government through democratic elections.

Perhaps it is the complaining so called middle classes that should be cast adrift from the rest of Thai society. The small percentage of 'intellectuals' who believe it is their God given right to be the rulers of the country

If you say so, my remark was more meant tongue in cheek as the Thais would never give up land like that. But I am pretty sure they would survive without Isarn. There are plenty of Cambodians and others that could do the same jobs. Also you seem to forget one real important thing about economics the persons producing the stuff must be able to sell it too. They can't all sell it over there so they would be "forced" to sell it outside Isarn.

I know many middle class (not elites) who are sick and tired of the corruption and thievery from this government that takes their income tax money and steals a lot and uses the rest to keep the Isarn votes happy (not that they have a problem with ppl from Isarn but more how they are used against them who pay the taxes).

I would much rather see a independent powerful non bias anti corruption agency that goes after the politicians reclaims the ill gains and fines and puts them in jail. That would keep the crooks out of politics (or at least more as now). Its hard to deny that the rice scam (yes its a scam) is nothing more as vote buying while and that is maybe even sadder most of it does not even reach the poor farmers.

Many lost their land because of Taksin and they are not smart enough to realize it, the 3 year credit thing... and then when they had to pay.. they had to sell their land. Calling T a savior of them is stupid beyond belief.

Where I am from (Netherlands) all election programs are being checked by an independent organisation to see if they are realistic and beneficial, that would be a good thing too and halt the vote buying even more.

Lastly I ad to those who say that vote buying does not work.. if that is true then why is it still done.. I am sure they would rather keep the money themselves.

[crazykopite]

No doubt the people council would be made up of the heir of red bull and all the other thugs who because of their wealth can get away with anything including killing policemen all this anti Thaskin rubbish is because those with wealth want a bigger slice of the pie I for one believe that the former self appointed pm Abist is behind these anti social demonstrations the yellow shirt do not want elections as they know that in two decades they have never been elected when the people vote they can only get in by using the back door I cannot vote for either thank goodness as we all know that Thailand is a breeding ground for corruption