Thai Immigration: Border insecurity mounts as tourist visa abuse is targeted

[NomadJoe]

In the article the Immigration official said about South Korea: “We both have 90-day exemptions for tourist visas..."

If he meant that Thais can get a visa exempt entry to South Korea, that is incorrect. Not for any length of stay.

The whole article, like many of the articles about the recent crackdown, is filled with inaccurate terminology. English language media in Thailand, it would seem. is unable to discern the difference between a tourist visa, a visa exempt entry, and "visa extension". They routinely use them incorrectly and this article is no exception. The English language media in Thailand is largely responsible for the very confusion is is reporting on.

[stevenl]

People living in Thailand on visa exempt entries should be worried now, those living here on tourist visa could get into problems later.

Those problems are starting now. After August 12th this will affect anyone travelling to Thailand on multiple tourist visa entries.<snip>

Disagree with you there, genuine tourists traveling on Tourist Visa's need not worry. As you mention later yourself, people living in Thailand on tourist visa should start to worry.

Yet we have already had a genuine tourist, on a tourist visa, having had major issues.. Another through Swampy who hadnt been here for 7 months, also being given a hard time.

How do you explain those genuine tourists having problems as it 'not effecting them' ??

Some people have been asked questions, same as some people are being asked questions upon entering many countries. Just because it always was a breeze here doesn't mean it always will be a breeze.

And from the examples we have seen here they were tourists but looked like/could have looked like people residing here on incorrect visa. So the questioning was not far fetched, and when all was sorted they were cleared to enter the country.

[NomadJoe]

People living in Thailand on visa exempt entries should be worried now, those living here on tourist visa could get into problems later.

Those problems are starting now. After August 12th this will affect anyone travelling to Thailand on multiple tourist visa entries.<snip>

After August 12th, all foreigners will be barred from using land borders or international airports.

[geoman1976]

You cannot travel to Australia, Britain, America, Canada or any other such nation, and walk in and start working in any capacity without applying for a work visa.

Whether they are taking a potential job away from a Thai resident is irrelevant, a non tourist person who works without the proper paperwork is an illegal alien, you would be the same in just about any other country in the world so what is your problem?

Ideally this is true but sometimes not the case. Illegals working in the US is a widespread problem. Have you ever driven by a hardware store in any metro in the morning and seen the line of illegals there who manage to work almost daily. Not to mention the agricultural factories that are over flowing with illegal immigrants. Part of it, if not the majority, is the responsibility of the locals who hire them. Also, in the U.S., if you manage to get a visa and want to open a small business, the U.S. actually provides 7 years worth of tax breaks, grants, and other incentives to assist the immigrants to start a new life there. This is because adding small businesses is condusive to the economy and minimizes the risk of them becoming part of the growing homeless population. Maybe Thailand should do something similar. HMMMMMM.

I do agree with you though. Legally, I do not know a single country that you can walk into and start working without the appropriate paperwork.

Edited May 18, 2014 by geoman1976

[John1thru10]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

Yeah, except for the entire continent of Europe.

[John1thru10]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

Yeah, except for the entire continent of Europe.

[John1thru10]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

Yeah, except for the entire continent of Europe.

[LivinLOS]

Yet we have already had a genuine tourist, on a tourist visa, having had major issues.. Another through Swampy who hadnt been here for 7 months, also being given a hard time.

How do you explain those genuine tourists having problems as it 'not effecting them' ??

Some people have been asked questions, same as some people are being asked questions upon entering many countries. Just because it always was a breeze here doesn't mean it always will be a breeze.

And from the examples we have seen here they were tourists but looked like/could have looked like people residing here on incorrect visa. So the questioning was not far fetched, and when all was sorted they were cleared to enter the country.

After 5 hours of delay..

And the deadline hasnt even started yet..

[Gonzo the Face]

Yet we have already had a genuine tourist, on a tourist visa, having had major issues.. Another through Swampy who hadnt been here for 7 months, also being given a hard time.

How do you explain those genuine tourists having problems as it 'not effecting them' ??

Some people have been asked questions, same as some people are being asked questions upon entering many countries. Just because it always was a breeze here doesn't mean it always will be a breeze.

And from the examples we have seen here they were tourists but looked like/could have looked like people residing here on incorrect visa. So the questioning was not far fetched, and when all was sorted they were cleared to enter the country.

After 5 hours of delay..

And the deadline hasnt even started yet..

ever think that there may have been or could have been other issues that may have caused the delay???? I didn't think so.

[lordblackader]

I'm surprised so many on here moan about Immigration suggesting they need to have 20'000"baht in their pocket.

That was certainly the complaint from the Russian woman who was rejected yet that sum will not last long in Phuket.

Lots of Russians have bought condos in place like Karon and are now renting them out on sites such as AirBnB.

Hotels hate that site as it offers great accommodation at half their room rates.

Thailand if rife with Farangs working in the tourist sector as diving instructors etc,bar owners, and teachers.

How many people come into Thailand with 20k THB in their pocket...seriously?

Her gripe was that she had it in her bank account but they played the literal rule of the law re having it in cash. She even offered to have her Russian bank statements translated.

It's 2014 for gods sake, with the exception of Chinese tourists who seem obsessed with cash, the rest of the world has moved on from there.

Edited May 18, 2014 by lordblackader

[John1thru10]

I can understand a country cracking down on working illegally. What bothers me is how much trouble I've been given the last year, and I've never ever worked in Thaialnd. I wouldn't want too, frankly. Why would I want to teach english for close to nothing, when I can make a lot more performing in Europe 4 months a year. There's just never a chance to explain this to an official: have visas from before, you working Thailand. No other explanation even possible.

[ukrules]

Yet we have already had a genuine tourist, on a tourist visa, having had major issues.. Another through Swampy who hadnt been here for 7 months, also being given a hard time.

How do you explain those genuine tourists having problems as it 'not effecting them' ??

Some people have been asked questions, same as some people are being asked questions upon entering many countries. Just because it always was a breeze here doesn't mean it always will be a breeze.

And from the examples we have seen here they were tourists but looked like/could have looked like people residing here on incorrect visa. So the questioning was not far fetched, and when all was sorted they were cleared to enter the country.

After 5 hours of delay..

And the deadline hasnt even started yet..

Things are going to get much much worse. They will be deporting 1000's each day after August 12th.

Either there will be a large scale daily face losing meltdown at the airport or this guy in charge of immigration will be 'promoted' to a desk job elsewhere.

[Thai at Heart]

Of course, absolutely no discussion about whether the work permit rules are correct and appropriate. No discussion about whether the company investment rules are correct and appropriate.

How much does an illegal foreign worker get paid 30k, 40k?

So let's assume they remove say, 10k people from phuket at 35k per person, but these jobs aren't replaced at all

10,000 x 35k per month = 350,000,000 per month of earning and spending removed from the economy every month. Even if they replace half, will they get paid 35k as thai employees? That is rent, food, entertainment and all the rest that turns in the economy.

So, let's hope they are extremely successful with this so that their folly becomes obvious very fast. Isnt it time to look at all the investment restrictions and work permit rules

[slygeeza]

the idea that immigrants steal jobs is not based on any economical reality, but on racism

[Jack Mountain]

How's life in Cambodia nowadays?

[ukrules]

Of course, absolutely no discussion about whether the work permit rules are correct and appropriate. No discussion about whether the company investment rules are correct and appropriate.

How much does an illegal foreign worker get paid 30k, 40k?

So let's assume they remove say, 10k people from phuket at 35k per person, but these jobs aren't replaced at all

10,000 x 35k per month = 350,000,000 per month of earning and spending removed from the economy every month. Even if they replace half, will they get paid 35k as thai employees? That is rent, food, entertainment and all the rest that turns in the economy.

So, let's hope they are extremely successful with this so that their folly becomes obvious very fast. Isnt it time to look at all the investment restrictions and work permit rules

Anyone planning on relocating to Thailand right now should reconsider as this massive change in regulation enforcement will result in wide scale differences in the mainstream tourist areas.

[ThaidDown]

"Actually they can so you are incorrect."

Yup. Mea culpa. I looked at the 30-day chart and didn't notice the 90-day chart.

I'd be curious when this came into effect. It seems like it wasn't so long ago (last year?) that I checked thoroughly (unlike today) and Thais needed a visa unless they just happened to have a valid USA tourist visa in their passport.

I do not know when it was implemented but around 25 years ago Thais got visa free access to south Korea, cannot remember if it was for 30 or 90 days, but wife and i used to fly there at least every 2 weeks from Tokyo, she never required a visa. ( no US visa in her passport)

Staff at Narita had to look it up in the IATA book a few times though.

[thejcb]

Why are you all so upset, Thailand is just becomming like all the other western countries.

But Thailand is NOTHING like all the other western countries

[chiang mai]

So much indignation and angst in these threads yet the basic premise seems to have been missed by most posters. Fact is that people who abuse the visa system deserve to be blocked from abusing it further, and of course, everyone thinks this is all geared towards farangs whilst in reality it is not. Farangs are only a small percentage of visitors to Thailand, get over yourselves, time has moved on. And if indeed the new rules do impact you, get an appropriate visa that covers your stay and fall in line. It's difficult to fault Immigration for this initiative, other than how they will manage the airline travel aspect, my suspicion is that this will be ironed out over time.

[TinoThailand]

the idea that immigrants steal jobs is not based on any economical reality, but on racism

Yes negative and positive, at some point they looked for a "colored" person on the team I remember and not the best skilled person. Many do jobs we don't want to do, that's also wicked. Thai also start cleaning less, building houses less. I see lots of Myanmar people doing jobs they don't want to do + they are still willing to work for less then the new minimum + there English is better in general (lol).

[stevenl]

I'm surprised so many on here moan about Immigration suggesting they need to have 20'000"baht in their pocket.

That was certainly the complaint from the Russian woman who was rejected yet that sum will not last long in Phuket.

Lots of Russians have bought condos in place like Karon and are now renting them out on sites such as AirBnB.

Hotels hate that site as it offers great accommodation at half their room rates.

Thailand if rife with Farangs working in the tourist sector as diving instructors etc,bar owners, and teachers.

How many people come into Thailand with 20k THB in their pocket...seriously?

Her gripe was that she had it in her bank account but they played the literal rule of the law re having it in cash. She even offered to have her Russian bank statements translated.

It's 2014 for gods sake, with the exception of Chinese tourists who seem obsessed with cash, the rest of the world has moved on from there.

The 20K was not the issue. She was working illegally, was found out, and judging from the story was not very polite.

[geoman1976]

First, I don't think Russians, South Koreans, and Vietnamese are "stealing" jobs. I do see Thais that use a lot of illegals from Myanmar for chheaper labor. Second, this was a legal loophole until recently so stop condemning those who used it. I personally never did but would have if it was legal and I needed it. Third, in addition to this reform I think it would be advantageous for Thailand to reform some of the existing laws in regards to small business owners that cannot afford such ridiculous requirements as 2 mil baht capital when you are a language teacher, tour guide, or real estate agent. That is just absurd to me. I think Thailand will be shocked at how much Thais and foreigners alike rely on these small businesses. If tthey are serious about this loophole being closed, they should think about opening easier avenues for small businesses to continue to emerge or I fear what will happen to this already struggling economy.

I would also like to point out the gross number of government schools that have teachers work for them illegally. In fact, the worst offender in the realm of education. So if the government wants to do this without crippling their economic and educational system, I suggest they reform a larger part of the system including business ownership requirements, the efficiency of the process itself, regulating the border guards who take bribes more closely, and their responsibility to provide required paperwork for their language teachers in a timely fashion. Also, if you have a problem with teachers taking side work then you should raise the pay to a livable wage and provide health insurance.

[John1thru10]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

[lazygourmet]

Yet we have already had a genuine tourist, on a tourist visa, having had major issues.. Another through Swampy who hadnt been here for 7 months, also being given a hard time.

How do you explain those genuine tourists having problems as it 'not effecting them' ??

Some people have been asked questions, same as some people are being asked questions upon entering many countries. Just because it always was a breeze here doesn't mean it always will be a breeze.

And from the examples we have seen here they were tourists but looked like/could have looked like people residing here on incorrect visa. So the questioning was not far fetched, and when all was sorted they were cleared to enter the country.

After 5 hours of delay..

And the deadline hasnt even started yet..

Things are going to get much much worse. They will be deporting 1000's each day after August 12th.

Either there will be a large scale daily face losing meltdown at the airport or this guy in charge of immigration will be 'promoted' to a desk job elsewhere.

Chubb Security is going to make huge amount of money.

Just in case you didn't know, that's the contractor who supervises deportation waitng cells at the airport...

And they charge THB 395/day to a soon to be deported.

[stevenl]

the idea that immigrants steal jobs is not based on any economical reality, but on racism

Please look up the definition of racism and come back here.

[ukrules]

So much indignation and angst in these threads yet the basic premise seems to have been missed by most posters. Fact is that people who abuse the visa system deserve to be blocked from abusing it further, and of course, everyone thinks this is all geared towards farangs whilst in reality it is not. Farangs are only a small percentage of visitors to Thailand, get over yourselves, time has moved on. And if indeed the new rules do impact you, get an appropriate visa that covers your stay and fall in line. It's difficult to fault Immigration for this initiative, other than how they will manage the airline travel aspect, my suspicion is that this will be ironed out over time.

The airlines won't put up with this kind of crap. I'd give it a week of this nonsense before there are serious repercussions and that's if it even gets to that stage.

What people don't seem to appreciate is that it's the airlines will decide who gets to fly from places like Europe / USA into Thailand based on a very strict non flexible set of rules which can be easily and most importantly quickly interpreted by the check in staff.

If the rules are ambiguous then the airline will deny boarding.

This could be something as arbitary as any previous tourist visas in your passport within X amount of years then deny boarding. Then the shit will really hit the fan.

Edited May 18, 2014 by ukrules

[Som wat]

why not make it so people can work and pay taxes?

Because it would take jobs away from Thais.

Lots of visa options are given to foreigners already.

Foreigners, of course, have no birth right to live here.

[John1thru10]

Of course, absolutely no discussion about whether the work permit rules are correct and appropriate. No discussion about whether the company investment rules are correct and appropriate.

How much does an illegal foreign worker get paid 30k, 40k?

So let's assume they remove say, 10k people from phuket at 35k per person, but these jobs aren't replaced at all

10,000 x 35k per month = 350,000,000 per month of earning and spending removed from the economy every month. Even if they replace half, will they get paid 35k as thai employees? That is rent, food, entertainment and all the rest that turns in the economy.

So, let's hope they are extremely successful with this so that their folly becomes obvious very fast. Isnt it time to look at all the investment restrictions and work permit rules

Anyone planning on relocating to Thailand right now should reconsider as this massive change in regulation enforcement will result in wide scale differences in the mainstream tourist areas.

Not to mention the real possibility of civil war.

[chiang mai]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

[chiang mai]

Of course, absolutely no discussion about whether the work permit rules are correct and appropriate. No discussion about whether the company investment rules are correct and appropriate.

How much does an illegal foreign worker get paid 30k, 40k?

So let's assume they remove say, 10k people from phuket at 35k per person, but these jobs aren't replaced at all

10,000 x 35k per month = 350,000,000 per month of earning and spending removed from the economy every month. Even if they replace half, will they get paid 35k as thai employees? That is rent, food, entertainment and all the rest that turns in the economy.

So, let's hope they are extremely successful with this so that their folly becomes obvious very fast. Isnt it time to look at all the investment restrictions and work permit rules

Anyone planning on relocating to Thailand right now should reconsider as this massive change in regulation enforcement will result in wide scale differences in the mainstream tourist areas.

Not to mention the real possibility of civil war.

The idea that Mars might suddenly slam into planet Earth should not be ignored either.