A Reminder That Textile Isn't Really a Substitute for Leather

[RubberSideDown]

This Icon textile jacket (Icon is a pretty good brand) was shredded in a low-speed crash- I can't tell if the jeans were Kevlar-reinforced. Decent leather would not have come apart like this- it might run hot, but cowhide can save your skin.

[Thaiwi]

That guys channel is great. Seems to be a nice spot there. Also, yeah the Jacket didn't hold up well at all. They' market the hell out of these alternatives, but nothing is better than cow.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[RubberSideDown]

^

Yeah- it's on Mulholland Drive, and I've ridden it a few times- it's easy to get it wrong, even at a sedate pace.

[Thaiwi]

^ that's the ticket, couldn't think of it. Seems to be a heaven for Vehicles. The variety of machines in his videos are amazing. Even old Jay Leno stopping by every now and then.

What bike did you use on Mullholland?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[RubberSideDown]

My 2000 Hayabusa- I once swapped bikes with my buddy and rode it on his CBR929RR (which was the better bike for that section of the road).

[Gweiloman]

According to the comments, the jacket was ripped upon as it caught on one of the levers and not because of the slide. Of course, this sounds strange unless he had the pocket open and the lever got caught inside the pocket?

[RubberSideDown]

^

It's possible and it does look like the bar caught the pocket, but leather wouldn't have shredded like that- the lack of strength of the fabric was surprising- I haven't worn my textile jackets in a while even though it's been really hot, and this serves to reinforce my choice of cowhide.

[H1w4yR1da]

Yeah, every time I ride with Thais, I'm shocked at their lack of gear, especially the girls. Dr Marten's, skin-tight jeans and a Yellowcorn jacket just don't cut it. May look cute and I know it's hot but.... . And the guys in textile jacket, jeans and tennis shoes. Oh well!

Suzuki GSX-R1000 L3 182 hp in-line 4 Superbike

[yankee99]

Im trying to figure out why he slid? Just shietty tires?

[mania]

Im trying to figure out why he slid? Just shietty tires?

When I watch that vid clicking frame by frame it looked to me like

his right foot pointed out...clipped front of shoe taking his foot off

the peg causing a dip then the peg caught.

But not to say a slide on some dirt or something didn't set it all off too

PS: one cool thing on You Tube videos is you can start then pause vid

then press & hold the white circle slider button on video.

That allows you to scroll thru frame by frame as there are a few frames

per second. It is kind of touchy but you can play with it & see

Edited June 8, 2014 by mania

[wantan]

Guess his foot peg touched the ground and lifted the bike up, so less load on the rear wheel and it started sliding.

The first spoken comment is: "The f*cking peg touched"

[Beardog]

Tires looked decent. Probably Pirelli Angel GT's.Hard to say how fresh the tires were. If they are around the 50% dead mark they are on the way out & just don't stick good to the surface of the road.

I have driven Mullholland drive several Times. All my gear in California is leather. I can't see any reason to have less protection in a place where it is cool enough to have leather. It does hold up tons better in a lay down situation.

Hard to tell what he did wrong. Looked pretty lame to wreck like that. But not knowing his circumstances. How many J's he burned before cocktails - Pain killers . I have ridden with some riders that just like to party hardy & it may have been a laps in judgement. Or his foot got caught on the road & took him down. Streaming no to good on true! I won't be buying anything ICON after seeing it disintegrate that easily.Makes you wonder on a high speed wreck if the gear wouldn't be torn completely off of him. I Just got a 4 LB Hein Gerhicke Jacket that the leather is so thick it wouldn't get more than road rash in a minor whoopty do like this one. I pick it up in Colorado & it stays in Sonoma, Ca. when I come home . Her it is mesh for sure. Leather a little to sweltery here for sure.

[RubberSideDown]

^

I had a pretty good crash while wearing a Hein Gericke V-Pilot jacket- it held up so well I was able to continue wearing it- it was only scuffed a bit- they make really good leathers- I was wearing the matching pants as well and they saved my ass (literally)- if they were better ventilated I'd be wearing their stuff in LOS.

[ttakata]

The original Joe Rocket Phoenix jackets were pretty durable.

Probably crashed in it 30 times pocketbike racing and it never wore through but we were only going 20-30mph.

Even leather wears through after enough abrasion.

I put holes in my 1 piece leather suit after a few repeated slides.

Maybe Thais don't care about safety becuase they think they will be reincarnated.

[brfsa2]

I watched this video when I saw it on my youtube feeds. interesting to see the jacket break apart like that. maybe it was old?

I have a question:

I have a full leather jacket that is too big on me now ( Scorpion Recruit XL)

so I've been using my textile instead which fits me very well size L (dainese Air Tex 3)

both have EC Elbow and shoulder pads,

I've heard that loose jacket does not provide the good protection.

I wonder maybe I should go back to wearing full leather even it's too loose.

ps, I lost too much weight (and muscle)

Edited June 8, 2014 by brfsa2

[ATF]

I think Beardog is right the guy doesn't seem to react at all when his foot touches the road and then his foot gets stuck between the road and the peg. His tires seem very square too.

I don't know why these guys riding Mulholland lean their bikes so much. The camber seems to be from the outside in which is good for cars but bad for bikes. Not much need to lean at all, the bike will automatically lean. If the camber was from the inside out they could really get the bike down.

[moe666]

I have a Tour Master Mesh jacket, when I went down last year must have hit shoulder first there is a hole about 1 in in diameter from impact and sliding but the pad saved my shoulder from major damage. It hurt for a while and I never had it checked for damage, it will still bother me if I over use it 1 year later. Iwas wearing shorts under my Joe Rocket Mesh pants and had a couple of good abrasions on my knees if I had been wearing jeans I do not think the skin would have been damaged. There are some abrasions on the pants around the knees where I slid. The mesh stood up just fine the guy in the video must have caught the jacket on something for it to come apart.

The strangest wear was on the Converse All Stars I was wearing, several of the lace grommet where worn from sliding but the side of the shoe sole was in perfect condition not a mark. Maybe that Icon jacket is of poor quality.

[seedy]

Wonder which country the jacket was made in ???

Manufacturers do not have their products made overseas because the quality is better - it is because it is cheaper.

I have an old leather jacket, HD brand but made by who knows - I have been told Bates. Had it since the 80's.

One shoulder and one elbow scuffed. But no rips or tears.

And no missing skin.

[RubberSideDown]

I've heard that loose jacket does not provide the good protection.

I wonder maybe I should go back to wearing full leather even it's too loose.

A jacket that's too loose can cause the pads to move out of place in a crash, making them much less effective or even useless- the movement of the fabric against your skin can also cause friction burns even if the jacket maintains its structural integrity.

A properly-fitting safety jacket will be very tight- almost uncomfortably so- it's purpose-built for use on a motorcycle and should feel OK on the bike itself, but wouldn't be something you'd want to wear out to the bar on a Saturday night.

[RubberSideDown]

Proper stitching is very important- if it's done right, the material would have to abrade before it would be compromised.

The stitching on my Vanson jacket is the best I've ever seen, but it's reflected in the cost- no thread is exposed at all in the impact areas:

Edited June 9, 2014 by RubberSideDown

[yankee99]

Wonder which country the jacket was made in ???

Manufacturers do not have their products made overseas because the quality is better - it is because it is cheaper.

I have an old leather jacket, HD brand but made by who knows - I have been told Bates. Had it since the 80's.

One shoulder and one elbow scuffed. But no rips or tears.

And no missing skin.

Ill bet the list is short of mfg who dont use factories in china or pakistan.

[JonnyF]

I use a leather/mesh combo, Komine jk-021.

Seems a decent compromise, leather in the main impact areas and mesh in other areas to make it more breathable. I'm pretty happy with it.

[nikster]

It depends on the textile.

Abrasion resistant fabric exists, but it's VERY expensive. Which is why you won't find it in a $200 jacket.

I'm beta testing textile pants right now & the fabric is strong enough to pass EU abrasion tests (level 2 I think but don't quote me on that). The friend who makes these has an abrasion testing machine and the textile holds up pretty well against all but the thickest leathers. According to him BMW riding gear is the only textile gear that's actually safe... which is why it costs between $400-$600 for a jacket...

[RubberSideDown]

^

It's been around for years- look at the Aerostich Roadcrafter suit. The issue is that you have to use at least 500-denier grade cordura for abrasion resistance that comes close to leather, and that increases the weight and makes it less attractive for hot weather (though it's comfortable and great for rain or cool weather).

If rain isn't an issue and you want a hot weather jacket, you're better off with a quality leather jacket than 500-denier cordura, IMHO.

[ATF]

I am currently in the market for a new leather jacket and pants. What's the best perforated leather jacket available now without an insulating liner? Cost isn't a priority because the jacket should last me 3 years or so. Safety and breatheability would be the most important factors.

[RubberSideDown]

I am currently in the market for a new leather jacket and pants. What's the best perforated leather jacket available now without an insulating liner? Cost isn't a priority because the jacket should last me 3 years or so. Safety and breatheability would be the most important factors.

I like the Dainese Super Speed (hump) and Racing (no hump) jackets (the 2014 C2 versions)- both attach to the Delta Pro EVO pants- I've got a Racing jacket coming from the States next month. The Alpinestars Atem jacket and Track Pants would make a nice combo (though the pants aren't perfed)- the GP Tech Air from last year has been going for a decent price lately as well.

There are lots of others worth considering.

[RubberSideDown]

A nice two- piece suit is also an option at $1000-$1500+ as well.

[H1w4yR1da]

Ill bet the list is short of mfg who dont use factories in china or pakistan.

Yeah, I remember a while back when Alpinestars used to promote the fact that their gear was made in Italy. Then later quietly shifted manufactoring to China. The first that people knew about it was when the new gear they bought showed the 'Made in China' label.

[RubberSideDown]

Ill bet the list is short of mfg who dont use factories in china or pakistan.

Yeah, I remember a while back when Alpinestars used to promote the fact that their gear was made in Italy. Then later quietly shifted manufactoring to China. The first that people knew about it was when the new gear they bought showed the 'Made in China' label.

I just checked some labels:

Alpinestars- made in Vietnam

Dainese- made in Ukraine

Vanson- made in USA

[mania]

I just checked some labels:

Alpinestars- made in Vietnam

Dainese- made in Ukraine

Vanson- made in USA

I just checked my Dainese Airframe Jacket

Made in Armenia of all places

I remember I was so surprised to see my TCX Boots were made in

Vietnam I wrote the company in Italy to ask. I thought uh-oh bought

in Thailand maybe a copy. They asked me to send pics of labels etc

then confirmed yes it is their product & made in VN

I guess it is a sign of the times & labor costs vs being competitive in

a world market

Cannot complain though as both the Jacket & the boots seem well made.

While I have always worn leather here in Thailand I just do not think I could swing

it most of the year so use the AirFrame Jacket.

But agree 100% leather/kangaroo etc is the best protective material