Have you ever seen Pattaya so empty of tourists?

[loppylugs1]

Next to where I live lies a 28 bed apartment/hotel,two years since completion with an accompanying restaurant little further down.Whatever the developer developed from and his ideas of selling it has well and truly fallen apart.I guess most if not all purchases especially in latter years in Pattaya have the same idea,buy now,quick buck later,perhaps rent for a while let the market pick up a bit of heat before offloading.

With what is going on now can see an almighty headache developing

[KittenKong]

Yes, many buildings do sell well off-plan but few of the farang buyers (who account for much more than 50% of purchasers in most developments here) seem to have any intention of ever living in the units they buy. Some may intend owning them and renting them out, others may intend "flipping" them on before the big money becomes due.

Both groups are living in a dream world as far as I can see, unless there really is some bottomless pit to draw on full of tenants and wanna-be purchasers of resale off-plan units. But there arent enough tenants around now to fill the existing condos outside of the peak December-February period, and where are the final buyers who intend to own and live in their units? I dont see too many of them.

To my mind this is real Ponzi stuff and quite scary.

[Sena Dave]

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Yes, many buildings do sell well off-plan but few of the farang buyers (who account for much more than 50% of purchasers in most developments here) seem to have any intention of ever living in the units they buy. Some may intend owning them and renting them out, others may intend "flipping" them on before the big money becomes due.

Both groups are living in a dream world as far as I can see, unless there really is some bottomless pit to draw on full of tenants and wanna-be purchasers of resale off-plan units. But there arent enough tenants around now to fill the existing condos outside of the peak December-February period, and where are the final buyers who intend to own and live in their units? I dont see too many of them.
To my mind this is real Ponzi stuff and quite scary.

Agree , they have been throwing them up all around Naklua and Wongamart beach for a few years now with no sign of stopping probably to accommodate the influx of Russian and Chinese Tourists. Many are bought off of the plan but you'd think There is no way they need more and things must slow down

[Sigurris]

You couldnt move on Beach Road over the weekend. It was packed. Yes I know it was a holiday weekend but it was full of tourists. Ok they were thai but they are still tourists. The restaurants by me were turning people away. My friend went to Pupen at 9pm and they had run out of prawns.I bet it will be empty tonight though.

[Jingthing]

Yes the intended focus here was really about international tourism. Not domestic tourism. Thais always pack the town on holidays. That's a given.

[tropo]

Yes, many buildings do sell well off-plan but few of the farang buyers (who account for much more than 50% of purchasers in most developments here) seem to have any intention of ever living in the units they buy. Some may intend owning them and renting them out, others may intend "flipping" them on before the big money becomes due.

Both groups are living in a dream world as far as I can see, unless there really is some bottomless pit to draw on full of tenants and wanna-be purchasers of resale off-plan units. But there arent enough tenants around now to fill the existing condos outside of the peak December-February period, and where are the final buyers who intend to own and live in their units? I dont see too many of them.

To my mind this is real Ponzi stuff and quite scary.

You'd be surprised how well condos in good areas rent out. There is no surplus of rentals in my neck of the woods. It has always been the same in real estate - position, position, position. Build something nice in a nice area and you won't have problems renting it out.

My previous landlord on Pratumnak Road has close to 100% occupancy in all his apartments, even now.

People are confusing tourists and long stayers. Long stayers don't care if there aren't any tourists around and prefer it quieter anyway. Tourism numbers are mostly irrelevant to the people looking for long term tenants as most of the owners are not interested in short term tourist rentals.

[JSixpack]

But there arent enough tenants around now to fill the existing condos outside of the peak December-February period, and where are the final buyers who intend to own and live in their units? I dont see too many of them.

Doesn't matter if you don't see too many of them as you've missed the point that just renting out a unit during high season may be quite enough for a satisfactory ROI. I have friends in the USA who do the same w/ their rental property on the coast of FLA. They ARE the final buyer but they DON'T live in their rental property and have NO intention ever to do so. In fact, they usually let friends & family stay there free (except for the cleaning fee) during the low season. And this has been going on for at least 25 years through all economic conditions. Any speculator may do the same. Or, maybe the speculator just doesn't need the money. So? You don't have any hard figures. The infamous TV forum poster "lights on at night" measure doesn't tell you a thing. Now, if a condo is sold, it's sold. It's really none of your concern whether the owner intends to live there or not. Speculation carries risks that speculators, except for the idiots, know and accept.

And again you've repeated your incorrigible but fallacious belief that every unit in every new building MUST be fully sold and owner-occupied by the moment it has been completed. If not, then the project has failed and foreshadows general economic ruin for the Pattaya economy. Please get that idea out of your head.

To my mind this is real Ponzi stuff and quite scary.

Nah. BTW, Prozac is sold over-the-counter here in the LOS.

Edited July 14, 2014 by JSixpack

[Benmart]

Yes I have noticed many price increases for sure. Like a buffet I used to like went went up 25 percent since last month so I looked at it but they had stopped offering the main dish I used to go there for. Good move ... they got nada from me. Raise the price and offer less, good business IF you can get it.

I agree. I've been coming to Pattaya for 18 years, Thailand for 20 and I now live here full-time.

While I understand inflation and the turmoils of a damaged economy, my forays to eat out have declined as has the food selection and levels of service at my favorite venues.

I eat at home most of the time and reminisce about the great places that offered variety, value-for-money and excellent service. They seem to be fewer and harder to find.

I too vote with my feet and move on.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Benmart

[Benmart]

Yes, many buildings do sell well off-plan but few of the farang buyers (who account for much more than 50% of purchasers in most developments here) seem to have any intention of ever living in the units they buy. Some may intend owning them and renting them out, others may intend "flipping" them on before the big money becomes due.

Both groups are living in a dream world as far as I can see, unless there really is some bottomless pit to draw on full of tenants and wanna-be purchasers of resale off-plan units. But there arent enough tenants around now to fill the existing condos outside of the peak December-February period, and where are the final buyers who intend to own and live in their units? I dont see too many of them.

To my mind this is real Ponzi stuff and quite scary.

You'd be surprised how well condos in good areas rent out. There is no surplus of rentals in my neck of the woods. It has always been the same in real estate - position, position, position. Build something nice in a nice area and you won't have problems renting it out.

My previous landlord on Pratumnak Road has close to 100% occupancy in all his apartments, even now.

People are confusing tourists and long stayers. Long stayers don't care if there aren't any tourists around and prefer it quieter anyway. Tourism numbers are mostly irrelevant to the people looking for long term tenants as most of the owners are not interested in short term tourist rentals.

Some very valid points from my experience at Pratumnak where I live. My building has "good" occupancy with mostly long term expats and is a joy to live in.

The other "luxury" property I lived in closer to town was a revolving door of short-term noise makers. Glad to have moved.

[Benmart]

Why would you post a photo of a Japanese island and compare it to Pattaya?

I bet if you think about it real hard, you can figure that out all by yourself. I have faith in you, you see.

Next.

That's what's wrong with Thai Visa. I ask a reasonable question and because you don't have an answer you start a flame war.

IMO they're is nothing wrong with Thai Visa Forum. The challenge is navigating through the flames, bias, bigotry and uncivil postings.They are really in the minority.

It's much like sewer gas. One notices the stink and not the fragrance of the blossoming flowers next to the drain hole.

Don't get frustrated. Keep posting my friend.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Benmart

[lor]

Yes I have noticed many price increases for sure. Like a buffet I used to like went went up 25 percent since last month so I looked at it but they had stopped offering the main dish I used to go there for. Good move ... they got nada from me. Raise the price and offer less, good business IF you can get it.

A few people have got it right and are offering discounts. Draft Beer at Robin Hood Bar in Jomtien now 35 Baht!

That sounds like cost price!! The keg will cost about 3,500 baht for 30 litres which is about 90 glasses assuming no deduction foe wastage. No bar can survive on that and pay all the rent, electric, tea money and salaries etc

[Benmart]

It's lovely to see Pattaya living up to it's old stereotypes! BF's indeed.

To me, the mention of BFs, etc. is of little interest and places those posters in an arena I don't visit.

I don't knock them for their choice or lifestyle. I have acquaintances that budget so much for STs, BFs and drink. They lament how short of cash they are at the end of the month or how they were ripped off. I listen and am thankful it's not me.

If I ever get tired of my present location, I will move on.

Live and Let Live.

[Benmart]

Back in '75-'80s the local were at owe and bewilderment when they saw a farang among them,

sadly, those days are gone....

It's the reason I enjoy my trips to Isaan. Lovely people, smiles, friendly and lower prices. I don't hang out in bars, which are there, but not of the quality or variety of Pattaya.

There is more to life than than the bottom view of a brown bottle.

[MZurf]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Edited August 24, 2014 by MZurf

[JesseFrank]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Are you sure you're not confused with the Monday night of 11 August ?

[MZurf]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Are you sure you're not confused with the Monday night of 11 August ?

Nope, it was definitively last Monday.

[ThaiBob]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Not sure why you were stunned, not only the Japanese tourists but many Thais enjoy those Japanese restaurants at Central, in fact there is a new Beni Hana style restaurant there. Fuji at Big C Extra is also popular. It is the western food restaurants that are suffering simply because there are fewer western tourists (and Russians).

[Jingthing]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Not sure why you were stunned, not only the Japanese tourists but many Thais enjoy those Japanese restaurants at Central, in fact there is a new Beni Hana style restaurant there. Fuji at Big C Extra is also popular. It is the western food restaurants that are suffering simply because there are fewer western tourists (and Russians).

Japanese tourists eat at Zen and Fuji? That's news to me. In my experience Japanese people tend to go to more authentic places.

[RandomSand]

The only indicator of this Ive noticed is long lines of parked baht buses at 2nd road/Pattaya Tai & Pattaya Klang. Ive never seen so many lined up and parked for so long each day.

Have you noticed the lack of tour buses parked at night and the fewer number of baht buses or tooting their horns for fares or motorbike taxis sitting around aimlessly waiting for a fare?

Can anyone interpret the above reply ??

Ruskie Rouble weak.

Edited August 24, 2014 by RandomSand

[MZurf]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Not sure why you were stunned, not only the Japanese tourists but many Thais enjoy those Japanese restaurants at Central, in fact there is a new Beni Hana style restaurant there. Fuji at Big C Extra is also popular. It is the western food restaurants that are suffering simply because there are fewer western tourists (and Russians).

I was stunned because (as is the subject of this thread) it was

A- Low season

B- Monday

[tropo]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Those Japanese restaurants do a very good trade. You can find them full at dinner time any night of the week. Most of their customers are Thai, so tourism numbers don't affect their bottom line much. While the Russians et al. are slumming it downstairs the Thais are fine dining upstairs.

One of those restaurants (AKA) was so busy at dinner time on a Tuesday night a few weeks back that I vowed never to eat there again at that time of day. I tend to find that if a restaurant is full of Thai customers and you're the only foreigner, service can be a bit rough. The Thai wait staff tend to be a bit shy to attend your table. (that's my theory anyway LOL)

[ThaiBob]

Went to Central last Monday night with a Japanese craving and was stunned to find Zen full and in Fuji only one table was available so someone is still making money, even during low season.

Not sure why you were stunned, not only the Japanese tourists but many Thais enjoy those Japanese restaurants at Central, in fact there is a new Beni Hana style restaurant there. Fuji at Big C Extra is also popular. It is the western food restaurants that are suffering simply because there are fewer western tourists (and Russians).

I was stunned because (as is the subject of this thread) it was

A- Low season

B- Monday

These places are busy 7 days a week, granted in the "good old days" you had to put your name on the the waiting list. I have waited 30 minutes at times to be seated.