Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[Tatsujin]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

You are not Thai, your wife/gf is from Laos, she's pregnant, you've lived here on and off since 2012 using tourist visa's, you are pursuing residency in Canada through Singapore. you're currently in Vientienne . . . no, you're not a "tourist" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to live indefinitely in ANY country (other than your own home countries) whilst you pursue applications to reside in yet another country.

We don't expect to stay here indefinitely. I hope someday you may be in our situation. Karma!

I won't be in your situation but that's beside the point. And I wish you well in the difficult situation that you've gotten yourself into.

You asked if you were a tourist, you are not . . . and 2+ years in Thailand is a little past the point where you could legitimately now use a "tourist visa" to extend your stay in a country where you are not a tourist.

Perhaps whilst you are here in Thailand you could use your free time to improve your Thai language skills, and apply for the relevant visa for that . . . you would then be staying in Thailand legally using a visa for which it was designed for whilst simultaneously giving you the time to pursue your residency in Canada.

[NeutralVoice]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It is only the habitual and long term users of tourist visas who are having problems

There has been so much coverage of the new stance the people concerned should not be surprised

Thailand gas a new government that is trying to achieve many many needed changes that acts with strength and determination, this has been needed for a long time

WARNING TO THOSE ON OVERSTAY, you need to leave immediately, and clean up your act, before the new regulations come in or you will risk being banned, it is not difficult to get retirement or marriage visas which probably cover 95% of those on overstay

I am personally in favor or the law being properly enforced

Aren't we all in favor of laws we know we are not breaking?

Laws are made for the purpose of putting controls and regulations on its citizens and visitors alike. It does not mean it is a good thing or a bad thing, and in fact many are quite bad and designed in the interests of some perceived thread against the country, at the expense of its citizens. A good example of this are many of the laws wrapped within the so called "Patriot act", put in place in the USA after the 9/11 attacks. The laws are designed to give broad power to authorities, in the name of national security and the target subjects represent a "real and present danger". It surely has had some effect on would-be terrorists, but these laws have created a lot of trouble to innocent citizens that were profiled or "randomly selected".

Not to be forgotten is that each and every law is enforced by human beings, who at times abuse these laws to target a particular person. Some law enforcement officers believe that the end justifies the means, and if that means the abuse of some Patriot Act law is necessary to catch someone that they are absolutely certain is a serial criminal, so be it. We never hear about the cases in which they are right, we hear about the ones in which they are wrong.

The whole idea of "random" temporary denial of your civil rights is laughable at best, yet it is now a generally accepted fact of life for many US citizens.

The same can be said about many laws in the Kingdom of Thailand, put in place but seldom enforced, yet enforced to the strictest sense of the law if so needed. The whole concept of the Rule Of Law is jeopardized and usurped by government officials because it truly gives broad powers to officials to target a particular person while others with similar or worse problems are not targeted. Some will say it is the same as the Patriot Act abuses, but I take exception to that because there is no comparison between the targets that the United States aims for and those that government officials take aim for at various times in the Kingdom's history.

The best laws are those whose language leaves little room for subjective interpretation. Those of us that speak and write English knows how difficult that can be, now try to do this in a language that is not our own and that leaves us at the mercy of the person in front of us telling us what the law says.

So, while the law regarding 30 and 60 day tourist visas makes a lot of sense, the selective enforcement of it is what leaves much to be desired and the source of considerable confusion and anger, especially among those affected by it. Yes, those that walk the fine line and decide to abuse the system because they do not enforce the law are guilty of manipulating the system to their own gain, but it is not fair to just paint all situations with the same brush.

It doesn't take a lot of reading on the THAI VISA forums to find plenty of reasons why a marriage visa would never be advisable. I would never do it, no matter how convinced I am that she would never take advantage of a system whose laws, once again, are flawed and leave foreigners very vulnerable to greedy spouses. The fact that it is a cottage industry in some places like Samui, supported by local officials that exercise their "subjective" interpretation of the law to leave foreigners broke and destitute.

We can take this to the nth degree too. Drug traffickers walk the street unmolested, despite every body knowing the reason some of these foreigners are there, yet activist citizens, the real heroes trying to rid our society from corruption, are often setup or charged with trumped up charges and quickly sentenced to long jail terms.

That these type of abuses can happen to just about anybody is the really scary part, done intentionally to put the fear on most people so they do not even contemplate causing any trouble. If anybody in this forums believe that the new people in power are going to go about this any different is going to get summarily disappointed - assuming objective analysis is being applied.

[EBlair48]

RE the Elite card. Wasn't that dropped after the last coup? How many got burned then? Seems a lot of money to risk when the stability of the immigration system, rules enforced, changed, not enforced, sometimes enforced... turn up side down, shaken, stirred... etc etc is as reliable as a cloud atlas.

[BillR]

It is time to spend the money in other countries, not in Thailand. TAT will be very happy about this new policy of the Immigration.

Don't let door = ass

That's a cynical reply, granted there won't be an impact on the Thai economy due to the people who are forced out or choose to leave because of the tightening visa laws. But there will be an impact on expat owned businesses. There will be a few less regular customers frequenting expat owned bars and restaurants during low season, and I'm sure an influx of financially stable expats will have a positive effect to the same sort of businesses in neighboring countries.

Unless your business caters to zero baht illegal workers or those who cannot afford without correct visas this will have ZERO impact

[DrTuner]

RE the Elite card. Wasn't that dropped after the last coup? How many got burned then? Seems a lot of money to risk when the stability of the immigration system, rules enforced, changed, not enforced, sometimes enforced... turn up side down, shaken, stirred... etc etc is as reliable as a cloud atlas.

There's a lot of discussion about it in this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

Edited July 14, 2014 by DrTuner

[britmaveric]

Well judging from past crackdowns if I was a wagering lad I would say sort yourself out for the near term. Long term - odds are pretty much in your favour with things going back to how they normally operate. As they say weather the storm and sunshine will be on it's way in due time.

[Tony125]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

They are all breaking the law . . . they are not "tourists" if you are using the people denied entry in the article as an example . . . they are using the tourist visa to enable them to stay long term in Thailand . . . that is NOT the purpose of the tourist visa, and THAT is what they are cracking down on.

And no, it's immigration's job to stop undesirable or illegal people at the border before they get into Thailand, not just once within the borders.

Too many inconsistencies in the rules being applied now not LAW ! Say those between 40 --50 or even 45---50 who have retired from jobs in their country or can receive income from their company (say they own it and are sent funds) they could not under present rules as I am aware of get a long term visa to stay in Thailand witch is why the abuse of visa exempt and tourist visa's has occured. For over 50 , married , or running a business one can get a non-O but others are screwed. And for those that say the rules are only being inforced at Southern Border Crossins wait awhile. Below is an excerpt of a posting to TV site back in May of this year and I told moderators then when they said would only affect Visa exempt/multi Border runners that according to the post 15, 30 or even 90 day visa's are subject to rejection (up to border official) When you are given a 60 day visa and even muli entrant visa and then told at time of enetering "sorry you not tourist" then who in authority is giving out a multi "Tourist Visa) if according to the border agent "you only tourist if you stay 30 days" really!!!!

**** Sent 2014-05-18 23:58:48

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism. He also added that it did not matter what country the visitor came from.

"This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country. They could also be asked to provide evidence of financial support, which is typically 20,000 baht." ******

[chang garden]

According to Siam Legal:

Rex: Sawasdee! I am your chat representative from Siam Legal International. How may I help you today?

: good afternoon Rex

: my question is not for me - I am totally legal with business and work permit - but what do I advise my customers.

: Customers of our resort have a habit of staying in Thailand in our place for 3 months in a row, every winter. So long stay tourists. What kind of visa do they need with all the new rules?

: Nationality: 1 couple is English, 2 couples are Dutch

: so with no intention to stay permanently and also do not for work. All are pensioners who just love to ride their bikes in our hills.

Rex: Tourist visa issued by the embassy is alright

Rex: It should be no problem

Rex: I guess they visit once a year?

: do they need a border crossing

: once or twice, depending on their free time and budget

Rex: No border crossing, they are given 2 months at the airport plus 1 month extension

: or does the embassy also issue tourist visa for 3 months?

: the extension to apply at immigration as usual?

Rex: Yes

Rex: tourist visa is only 2 months per entry and it can be extended for 1 month

Rex: They can also get 3 months Non O visa from their countrie

: Thank you, that is what I wanted to know

Rex: countries

Rex: Thank you for your time. Should you have further question or other inquiries, please do not hesitate to contact us. Good bye and have a nice day.

Edited July 14, 2014 by chang garden

[Pattaya46]

Say those between 40 --50 or even 45---50 who have retired from jobs in their country or can receive income from their company (say they own it and are sent funds) they could not under present rules as I am aware of get a long term visa to stay in Thailand witch is why the abuse of visa exempt and tourist visa's has occured.

Read this forum more carefully, and you will find several topics explaining that there are at least 4 different visa that those below 50 can use...

[techboy]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

"Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas..." Ignoring the fact that your opening words indicate that your reading comprehension skills are sorely in askance, there is nothing "classic" about this article because it is regarding a system that is in a state of flux, considerable change. However the lack of insight, propensity to stereotype and overall absence of intelligence make your post a "classic Thai bash."

[brewsterbudgen]

As somebody who does not live ( perhaps 2 trips of 45-60 days yearly ) in Thailand, I am unlikely to be affected by these new regulations. I would however caution those who seem to think that visa crack downs can only be good news for both them and Thailand as a whole.

This may well be the case but dont dismiss the possibility that it could also be pure and simple xenophobia . It would hardly be the first time that a Junta or Nationalist government has played such a hand and it doesn't usually end well for any foreign residents.

My girlfriend lives close to Bangkok and supported the coup so surprised me when she said. '' Not everything the army does will be good , dont forget many Thai people dont like Farang , maybe the army dont like Farang ''

I don't see how this is coup or junta related. The crackdown was announced before the coup.

[nithisa78]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

It probably doesn't contain all the facts. There has to be more to it than we're reading here. Maybe to shake up those that are not in compliance. Already in country. The shadow knows. We can only guess.

[John1thru10]

how many people do you know that are living in Thailand on back to back tourist visa's that are NOT working illegally? Rhetorical question of course.

I know a number of them, actually. I've met many, many more extremely judgemental, bitter older men on ritirement visas, however.

[John1thru10]

So why did I pay 75 quid for a triple entry tourist visa in London?

I can not even use it!

Yes you can, if you are a legitimate tourist.

As usual, BillR speaks with authority...oh wait, he's just trying to make himself feel important any way he can. Never mind

[DennisKL]

Interesting comments on a bunch of people stretching their luck in a foreign country for way too long.

For all of you proclaiming to be:

1. Financially independent < 50 years and just love to hang around in Thailand all the time on back-to-back Visas

2. "Working" in Thailand on back-to-back Visas because they operate successful businesses in Cyber-space

3. etc etc etc

Here is your solution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

(If USD 15,000 is really THAT much whoohooboohoo money it seems that either your cyber business is not so successful or you are not that financially independent after all )

All of the (mostly overpaid & non qualified) &lt;deleted&gt;, yes &lt;deleted&gt; because you are stealing jobs from Thai people, you either have to except that:

1. The party is over for now. Put your old stuff in your backpack, go home for 2 months and try again?

2. -OR- Follow the rules and get a work permit (tough when you are not qualified, I know)

I dont see any issue here?

[brewsterbudgen]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

I am sympathetic as I also have a Lao girlfriend. Luckily my status in Thailand is Ok as I have a work permit and extension of stay, and I have no desire to move back to my home country. At the moment she and her many Lao friends and relatives living in Thailand are still getting stamped in at the border for 30-days (despite years of such stamps!) but I expect this will change soon. Living and/or marrying in Laos is difficult and both of us want to live in Thailand. I'm considering getting her an Ed. Visa (to study English) if this is the ony way we can stay together in Thailand. Depending on how soon your Canadian decision will take, you might want to consider the same for both of you. Good luck.

[BillR]

how many people do you know that are living in Thailand on back to back tourist visa's that are NOT working illegally? Rhetorical question of course.

I know a number of them, actually. I've met many, many more extremely judgemental, bitter older men on ritirement visas, however.

I'm 35

[krislarter]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

I don't think so. People visiting here as "real" tourists are unlikely to be affected, particularly as they invariably arrive by air. As clearly stated in the OP, the eight people who were refused entry all had a history of border crossings and numerous Tourist Visas, so the official was clearly following orders not to allow bogus "tourists" into Thailand.

There are numerous ways that a person can arrange legal status in Thailand, and I certainly have no sympathy for anyone who uses tourist visas to carry out unlawful work in Thailand. I am of the opinion that once Thailand has rid itself of such bogus tourists, they may start to make things slightly easier for those of us who stay here legally - such as disposing of the pointless 90 day reporting ...!!

Not according to what is being said at the border. You are a tourist for only 30 days. It would appear 60 day visas are meaningless.

Yes,you are a tourist for 30 days on an a 30 day exempt,on a tourist visa you are a tourist for 60 days.

[BillR]

So why did I pay 75 quid for a triple entry tourist visa in London?

I can not even use it!

Yes you can, if you are a legitimate tourist.

As usual, BillR speaks with authority...oh wait, he's just trying to make himself feel important any way he can. Never mind

Nope, for those of us who do things right, we relish in your pain

[firestar]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

You are not Thai, your wife/gf is from Laos, she's pregnant, you've lived here on and off since 2012 using tourist visa's, you are pursuing residency in Canada through Singapore. you're currently in Vientienne . . . no, you're not a "tourist" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to live indefinitely in ANY country (other than your own home countries) whilst you pursue applications to reside in yet another country.

A tourist is someone who travels to a country for recreational and leisure purposes with no intention to work, more often than not for short periods of time but not necessarily. The vast majority of people on multiple tourist visas do just that. no work only leisure.

Get off your high horse and stop confusing "tourist" with "holiday maker".

__________________________

Edited July 14, 2014 by firestar

[Gweiloman]

Interesting comments on a bunch of people stretching their luck in a foreign country for way too long.

For all of you proclaiming to be:

1. Financially independent < 50 years and just love to hang around in Thailand all the time on back-to-back Visas

2. "Working" in Thailand on back-to-back Visas because they operate successful businesses in Cyber-space

3. etc etc etc

Here is your solution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

(If USD 15,000 is really THAT much whoohooboohoo money it seems that either your cyber business is not so successful or you are not that financially independent after all )

All of the (mostly overpaid & non qualified) <deleted>, yes <deleted> because you are stealing jobs from Thai people, you either have to except that:

1. The party is over for now. Put your old stuff in your backpack, go home for 2 months and try again?

2. -OR- Follow the rules and get a work permit (tough when you are not qualified, I know)

I dont see any issue here?

What an arrogant and condescending post.

I have friends here who are < 50, do not work and are financially independent due to rent and investment income from their home countries. They enjoy living here, they have girlfriends and they contribute to businesses and the local community in terms of paying rent, eating at local restaurants and drinking at local bars.

However, to pay Thb 500,000 for this privilege is just not worth the money if you don't need escorted services through immigration or limo transfers or golf / spa discounts.

I'm here on a retirement visa, the Thb 800,000 that I have in my bank account is still MINE, which I spend during the course of the year. The Thb 500,000 is a sunk cost. Can you see the difference?

[John1thru10]

Using tourist visas in such a way although viewed by some as abuse, has been perfectly legal.

Yes, but probably not in the spirit of the Immigration rules.

I think they should have just add in rules something like

:

"As a tourist you can't stay more than 180 days a year in Thailand"

or

"As a tourist you can't stay more than 90 days in Thailand for any 180 days period"

This speaks to another issue which is often not addressed here at all, and which compounds the difficulty for many people. I've tried to add it before, but it's always shouted down by the retirement-visa crowd, who either deny it outiright (having no experience outside of retirement visas, themselves) or they will change the subject by accusing others of not being 'real' tourists, 'working illegally', etc.

OFTEN, the problem is not x number of days in x period of time - that would TECHNICALLY be the rule. But, border agents instead rely on a visual first impression of a person's passport. If you have a lot of tourist visas, even from years ago in your passport, usually no attempt is made to calculate the dates in between them. It's just a flip through. This matters, particularly as this crackdown continues.

I know this to be true, and have had it confirmed very specifically by visarun companies over the last year or more. It is a visual, first impression thing - and so in practical reality, it's often not about 'time outside of Thailand', but simply, how many times have you come here with this passport.

Also, the idea that everyone who is in Thailand frequently on tourist visas is 'working illegally' - that is a complete myth that people here shout all the time. 90% of the farangs I know in Thailand are absolutely NOT working here. Even the ones that are here constantly. And, they also aren't penniless for that matter, either. More than a lot of people here want to admit, those people do contribute to the economy - at least, every bit as much, or more, than the average retiree here does.

This is an important forum, but a number of people who spend their time here just to shame younger people, and crow about how 'legitimate' they find themselves compared to others, on what is literally a daily, constant basis, is really distracting and hurtful. I want news about immigration, not reading a lot of old guys trying to make everyone feel badly every day. If you aren't on a tourist visa, or are not an official of some kind, or a moderator, you really have no business commenting all the time about whether you personally 'approve' of other people, and you are certainly not in positions to be the 'online judge' of who is working illegally or not. I seriously doubt that was the intention of this forum when it began.

Edited July 14, 2014 by John1thru10

[cookee68]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I understand there's a new sheriff in town, and "rules is rules" and whatnot, but what is the actual motivation for the crackdown?

It certainly doesn't help the country financially. Was there a growing disdain for a certain type of farang that boiled over?, farangs in general?, is it just chest-thumping and trying to look productive?

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

It seems the Russians working here illegally is a major target. They are taking jobs from the locals. It seems they have looked the other way for years if you are an English teacher.

If they had any I.Q at all they would have predicted that the Russians would come in droves, but no, about 12 years ago Thailand was only thinking about the money, and did not care, now the Russians are here and controlling the Thai mafia, and all the work aspects as the Rusians were cheaper at supplying what the Thais were supplying and that was all down to greed,

[p_brownstone]

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You have indeed led a very sheltered life here!

There is quite a significant "industry" in Thailand providing transportation and related services to "Visa Runners"; large Buses and smaller Mini Vans are parked at several places in Bangkok (and in other major towns too I am sure) and simply wait for passengers. They are then driven to a particular Border and escorted across, sometimes entertained at a local Casino or Hotel Buffet whilst their paperwork is done then taken back into Thailand, back onto the bus and back to Bangkok (or wherever) the same day with a new Visa Exempt stamp.

There are literally dozens of these vehicles travelling every day, and the vast majority of passengers are Farang - so it's simple to calculate that there are many hundreds of these "Border / Visa Runners" in Bangkok alone.

Patrick

[ludosiam]

If the concern really is about people with a tourist visa working in Thailand (as per letter sent to the embassies) why not checking at places known for hiring such people instead of informing them that they still can fly back to Thailand and continue as usual?

[firestar]

The FB page says it all really

The guy APPEARS to be just another 350lb Mitty-esque loser desperately seeking respectability while living in Thailand on the bones of his arse on the proceeds of a minor "talent".

Hardly surprising

Indeed. Typical of the "last one in syndrome" of the loser who just arrived and married the first bargirl that gave him a wink and a smile. lecturing others with his non-o visa while breaking the law by doing freelance work

Edited July 14, 2014 by firestar

[larsjohnsson]

I believe the authorities are cleaning up the abuse of the visa system on two fronts here.

I reckon the immigration staff are under strict orders to not let people with loads of previous tourist visa and entry stamps into Thailand.

AND

They are also getting tough with the foreigners trying to enter by denying them entry into the country.

This will be a good thing in the long run.

However, it seems from reading the comments here that the people who will be unfairly victimised by this are the offshore workers.

These guys probably have more than enough money to support themselves during their stay in Thailand, they don't work in Thailand, may not be married to a Thai and are probably under 50, they get tourist visas because there is no other visa class for them!!

There are other visas for them. Why do people repeat this over and over again. Maybe you don't like the other visa classes. But it exist

[DennisKL]

Interesting comments on a bunch of people stretching their luck in a foreign country for way too long.

For all of you proclaiming to be:

1. Financially independent < 50 years and just love to hang around in Thailand all the time on back-to-back Visas

2. "Working" in Thailand on back-to-back Visas because they operate successful businesses in Cyber-space

3. etc etc etc

Here is your solution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

(If USD 15,000 is really THAT much whoohooboohoo money it seems that either your cyber business is not so successful or you are not that financially independent after all )

All of the (mostly overpaid & non qualified) <deleted>, yes <deleted> because you are stealing jobs from Thai people, you either have to except that:

1. The party is over for now. Put your old stuff in your backpack, go home for 2 months and try again?

2. -OR- Follow the rules and get a work permit (tough when you are not qualified, I know)

I dont see any issue here?

What an arrogant and condescending post.

I have friends here who are < 50, do not work and are financially independent due to rent and investment income from their home countries. They enjoy living here, they have girlfriends and they contribute to businesses and the local community in terms of paying rent, eating at local restaurants and drinking at local bars.

However, to pay Thb 500,000 for this privilege is just not worth the money if you don't need escorted services through immigration or limo transfers or golf / spa discounts.

I'm here on a retirement visa, the Thb 800,000 that I have in my bank account is still MINE, which I spend during the course of the year. The Thb 500,000 is a sunk cost. Can you see the difference?

Yeah right. You know what is arrogant and condescending, all these unqualified & self proclaiming english teachers messing up the system. Less worse but still very bad for the thai people, all those dive masters, yoga whatevers, bar tenders, tour guides, restaurant owners all working on tourist visa's. IT AIN'T RIGHT, case closed.

Furthermore, you dont seem to know the meaning of actually BEING financially independent (there is a HUGE difference with regards to all of you CONSIDERING yourself to be financially independent). Like I said, if USD 15k is really that great of a loss you are NOT financially independent nor are you capable residing in a foreign country for a long period of time. You can call this whatever you like fact of the matter is that a GENUINE tourist is not someone who spends THB 1000 per day. A tourist travels through the country, spends nights in hotels and resorts, eats out spending a little bit more than "those being financially independent but eating with the locals everyday", take excursions etc etc. If you are a long stayer and financially independent take care of your stuff and you will have no problems. Is it really that hard?

[jimn]

Like many people I am following this closely. Whilst it doesnt apply to me, I am on a retirement extension of stay, I am concerned for some of my friends. I have 3 friends who work for 1 month outside Thailand and then spend their off month in Thailand and spend a great deal of money whilst they are here. I also have 2 friends who own their own businesses in the Uk and choose to spend 2 or 3 months at a time in Thailand on tourist visas. I will be interested to see how it turns out for them, especially those who work off shore

[Wanderlust]

I am a long way from being an expert in Thailand's visa and immigration policy, but my approximately 16 years here do allow me some view of what might happen based on the past, as this isn't the first time there has been a crackdown. However it does feel a little different this time, because we have the military in charge until October 2015, with the possibility that the General in charge becomes the next elected leader. So there is a potential political element to this, and it could well earn the General more brownie points with the electorate - this has been seen in other countries, where a 'get tough on immigrants' policy is followed or announced prior to an election. I know this wasn't a military policy but I imagine it would have been squashed if they didn't agree with it.

Without any actual figures to go on, none of us have any idea how big or small the abuse of the tourist visa and visa exempt system has been, although it seems like we will get a clearer idea as the weeks go by; however part of the problem lies in the use of the word 'tourist', as well as some preconceived notions about some of the people who come to Thailand, such as backpackers. I was a backpacker, albeit a much older than average one, when I first arrived in Thailand, and one of the joys of being such a mobile tourist in Thailand at that time was that you could change your plans at a moments notice, be it within the country or a decision to go to another country. I was a tourist but i had plans to travel for months, having researched what was and wasn't possible in the various countries - some needed visas in advance (which could be obtained in Thailand at fairly short notice) others offered, as Thailand did, visas on arrival/visa exemptions. Even then though there was still a few grey areas about what was and wasn't legal and was a common topic of conversation in the hostels. However in practice Thai immigration at either land borders, airports or even the various offices and consulates never gave me a problem, and were positively jovial most of the time, in stark contrast to what I had experienced in several other countries including my own (UK).

Over the years I have been here I have met a lot of ex-backpackers who returned to marry, retire or work in Thailand, or who are regular tourists, and many who have bought holiday homes here; my contention is that if the country had not been so welcoming to them (and me) the first time, and we hadn't felt the sense of freedom we did, we may well have not stuck around or returned, and this is the potential banana skin that is being created now, possibly preventing young people making that first journey here and thus preventing them coming back here when they are older and richer, the type of tourist Thailand wants apparently. While the vast majority of backpackers are on quite a tight budget, they normally stay a long time, and their spend over that period is often higher in total than the average tourist, so it is both this revenue and the potential future revenue that is put at threat by the strict enforcement we are seeing now. I have my doubts that the majority of these backpackers are doing anything other than enjoying a good time in the country, with a small minority working illegally. And given that there is no welfare system for foreigners to take advantage of, I am not sure what this crackdown will achieve other than possibly making Thailand a harder place for criminals or terrorists to operate in, but I'm not convinced it will even achieve that.

I don't know what the motivation really is behind the tightening up, and it may be as simple as that they just want the laws to be enforced properly in all areas rather than any xenophobic urges, and certainly if the world gets to see that corruption is being eliminated, conditions being improved, streets/beaches being kept clean etc it may well encourage more high end tourists to visit. But getting back to the use of the word 'tourist' it is generally defined as 'a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.' It may be better if the tourist visas available were called by what they are - '30 day visas' or some other applicable description to avoid anyone being confused. Why does xx days define a tourist? And as others have said, require greater screening at Thai embassies and consulates, much like when applying for the non immigrant visas, or as is seen with many other countries. Finally a truly beneficial change would be to get rid of the age requirement for the retirement extension, as surely proof of funds should be enough? I have never understood why 50 (or any age for that matter) is deemed the mark of retirement here. The other alternative would be to introduce a more realistically priced version of the Elite card. Maybe that is in the works and is the real reason?

My gut feeling is this tightening up may remain in force for at least 6 months but then gradually be relaxed somewhat, or possibly the whole system be revised as may be needed for the ASEAN union next year. It will be interesting to see what other countries in ASEAN do as well. Previous experience suggests that there will be some tweaks and clarifications as well when they can see how tourist numbers are being affected, if they are.

Not that it really matters, but just to avoid any accusations, I have been married to a Thai for 13 years now and have two children with dual nationality, and i am here now on a non immigrant visa extended with a work permit, previously extended through marriage. Prior to that I used to go on a visa run every 90 days, and before I was married it was multiple entry tourist visas, and I wasn't working in Thailand. I guess I was abusing the system but I just loved living in Thailand and no official ever even hinted I was doing anything wrong. I wouldn't be able to do it now so the rest of my history may never have happened if the current rules were enforced then, so i would probably be in Vietnam or the Phillipines now instead spending my money.

Incidentally, for those people who are married to a Thai, if your Thai partner is the Managing Director of a Thai Company you set up, you only need two Thai employees for your own work permit with that company (I'm not sure if this applies to women married to Thai men though). I hope that helps someone but do get professional advice.