Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Brew]

22 hours ago, beeper said:

I am at SUV and as PR holder tried to get signed up to use the electronic gates at immigration. It used to work on my previous passport. Now with the new generation German passport immigration told me their E gate system does not recognize and cannot read passport so they cannot set me up to use E gate.vi have to wait for new version of SW being loaded. Until then have to use normal channel. Anybody has any experience with this ?


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I got registered with the new German passport in October last year.

But it took them almost 3 hours to get it working.

 

[onthemoon]

45 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Theoretically you should present your alien book, since that is your official ID in Thailand makes it very clear you are a PR and not liable to police reporting.  I took mine on a trip where I stayed at several hotels and got 100% rejection rate.  Mrs Arkady was getting rather irritated with me by the time we checked into the last hotel. 

I'm not really surprised they reject the book. They have likely never seen it before. 

[onthemoon]

41 minutes ago, Brew said:

I got registered with the new German passport in October last year.

But it took them almost 3 hours to get it working.

 

Maybe some officers are not trained with the new software and others are?

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I'm not really surprised they reject the book. They have likely never seen it before. 

 

I guess that most of the elderly Chinese with these books that one used to see signing for their endorsements with thumbprints only at Soi Suan Plu are now dead or don't stay in hotels in Thailand.  I found that the only Thais apart from government officials who knew what the red book was were Thai Chinese who would say their auntie or some other elderly relative that never made it to Thai national status had one of those.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

I guess that most of the elderly Chinese with these books that one used to see signing for their endorsements with thumbprints only at Soi Suan Plu are now dead or don't stay in hotels in Thailand.  I found that the only Thais apart from government officials who knew what the red book was were Thai Chinese who would say their auntie or some other elderly relative that never made it to Thai national status had one of those.

It is time to abolish the red book in favour of the pink ID card - which needs to be redesigned to be bilingual, like the Thai ID card.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

It is time to abolish the red book in favour of the pink ID card - which needs to be redesigned to be bilingual, like the Thai ID card.

They should have done that years ago but it's too much trouble for relatively small numbers of PRs.  The Immigration Act would need amending for one thing.  Then there are all the alien registration officers in police stations that would have to find another job to pretend to do.  They probably have another 100 years' supply of the red book blanks printed in 1927 to get through first too.

[beeper]

No, but that would be bad news. Good to hear that they are already working on the new software.

Actually they said they do not know yet when that will be.


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[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, beeper said:

Actually they said they do not know yet when that will be.

Which should not have surprised me.

[beeper]

I got registered with the new German passport in October last year.
But it took them almost 3 hours to get it working.
 

Thanks Brew. Did they mention what the specific problem was they encountered? How did they resolve it to finally get you set up? The problem must be in the new updated version of the German passport that was introduced in early 2017 with softcover and fully rigid data page, replacing previous model with softcover and laminated data page.

Not sure if any other PRs with new similar EU passports had similar problems

I am fishing for something with which I can convince them to try again next time I am flying out. I am dreading have to through overcrowded manual channel for the foreseeable future.


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[stbkk]

Just as a matter of interest, do you ever have issues when having to show your last entry stamp (at for example banks, government offices), as I guess yours would have been from a while ago if you use the electronic gates?

 

Thats one of the main reasons I have not bothered to register for this yet.

 

Thanks

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, stbkk said:

Just as a matter of interest, do you ever have issues when having to show your last entry stamp (at for example banks, government offices), as I guess yours would have been from a while ago if you use the electronic gates?

 

Thats one of the main reasons I have not bothered to register for this yet.

 

Thanks

I have not encountered any problems. The only time I when to the "normal" counter to get a stamp was before I reneweed the work permit. The agency that does that for me said it is better to be on the safe side.

[Michael Hare]

I have lived in Thailand for many years. I have had PR since 2004. I can not recall anyone asking to see my passport and the last entry stamp. My passport stays locked in my house safe. I just use my pink ID for everything. It seems to have more "power" than a passport. 

[stbkk]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

I have lived in Thailand for many years. I have had PR since 2004. I can not recall anyone asking to see my passport and the last entry stamp. My passport stays locked in my house safe. I just use my pink ID for everything. It seems to have more "power" than a passport. 

Maybe I'm just unlucky then.

 

In the last 3 months alone I've been asked twice. Once when opening a new bank account, and the second by my accountants when renewing my WP. The accountants know all about my PR, and I asked them what would happen if I did not have the valid 'visa' (what I call the re-entry permit). They laughed and said lucky I always have one, as its better not to find out!

[Michael Hare]

That is not quite correct in my case.. For some years I do not get a re-entry permit because I know I will not be leaving the country. I once went four years without a re-entry permit. My accountants do my Work Permit every year and have never asked for the re-entry permit to be shown to the Labour Department.

[beeper]

Just as a matter of interest, do you ever have issues when having to show your last entry stamp (at for example banks, government offices), as I guess yours would have been from a while ago if you use the electronic gates?
 
Thats one of the main reasons I have not bothered to register for this yet.
 
Thanks

I have never been asked for last entry stamp as I have always been on 2 year work visas until I got PR. now with PR have not been asked either


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[onthemoon]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

That is not quite correct in my case.. For some years I do not get a re-entry permit because I know I will not be leaving the country. I once went four years without a re-entry permit. My accountants do my Work Permit every year and have never asked for the re-entry permit to be shown to the Labour Department.

I believe we are talking about the passport, not the re-entry permit, that has to be handed in when reneweing the work permit.

[stbkk]

4 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

That is not quite correct in my case.. For some years I do not get a re-entry permit because I know I will not be leaving the country. I once went four years without a re-entry permit. My accountants do my Work Permit every year and have never asked for the re-entry permit to be shown to the Labour Department.

It does seem to go in phases. I don't recall being asked to show/give copies of the last entry stamp for ages, and now in the last couple of months twice. Just lucky I guess!

[brianinbangkok]

I am going to CW soon to get a new re-entry permit and at same time get a replacement for my almost full Blue Residents Book. (first white one)

So taking with me the usual stuff including Photo's ,Passport , Blue book , Red ID book and house book.

Are there any other requirements ? 

 

And how much will it be total cost ?

Edited February 28, 2018 by brianinbangkok

[Brew]

21 hours ago, beeper said:

Thanks Brew. Did they mention what the specific problem was they encountered? How did they resolve it to finally get you set up? The problem must be in the new updated version of the German passport that was introduced in early 2017 with softcover and fully rigid data page, replacing previous model with softcover and laminated data page.

Not sure if any other PRs with new similar EU passports had similar problems

I am fishing for something with which I can convince them to try again next time I am flying out. I am dreading have to through overcrowded manual channel for the foreseeable future.


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I don't know how they resolved the problem - they told me the problem are the reflexions of the holograms.

Though it will be an easy task until they started to discuss on the phone and secretly took photos of me with a smartphone.

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Brew said:

I don't know how they resolved the problem - they told me the problem are the reflexions of the holograms.

Though it will be an easy task until they started to discuss on the phone and secretly took photos of me with a smartphone.

I can imagine the problem with the hologram. Probably a safety feature...

 

They secretly took photos of you? What for?

[KevT]

On 12/12/2017 at 11:37 AM, Arkady said:

Immigration has now published the details for 2017 PR applications on its website. PR applications 2017.pdf.

 

The window for applications is 12-29 December.

Is the application window only for accepting applications and the application process starts many months later, or does the application process start shortly after?

 

I am wondering for situations where say if someone has 1 month of work left for the 3 years total, for example, would that person have to wait 11 months for the next application window? Or would he be able to present documents/proof of work/taxes during or after the application process? In other words, is everything after the application window irrelevant, or it is possible to present new documents?

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, KevT said:

I am wondering for situations where say if someone has 1 month of work left for the 3 years total, for example, would that person have to wait 11 months for the next application window? Or would he be able to present documents/proof of work/taxes during or after the application process? In other words, is everything after the application window irrelevant, or it is possible to present new documents?

You need proof that you have been working for the 3 years on the date you apply. But they might accept your application if you were within a month of having 3 years.

If you do not have 3 years of tax returns to present they will allow you to submit the one for the year when you apply later.

[thedemon]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:33 AM, beeper said:

Thanks Brew. Did they mention what the specific problem was they encountered? How did they resolve it to finally get you set up? The problem must be in the new updated version of the German passport that was introduced in early 2017 with softcover and fully rigid data page, replacing previous model with softcover and laminated data page.

Not sure if any other PRs with new similar EU passports had similar problems

I am fishing for something with which I can convince them to try again next time I am flying out. I am dreading have to through overcrowded manual channel for the foreseeable future.


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Lat month I tried to renew my Autochannel registration at BKK departures as the initial 2 years was up. Immigration gave the form to fill out again and asked for another copy of my Thai referee's ID card. An officer took my documents and spent about 30 minutes on a computer terminal with a few others trying to help him. Eventually he came back to me and rather sheepishly explained that because I had changed my Residence book and the software was unable to unlink the old number from my current passport number, there was no way to renew it until I had a new passport issued. I could see that he knew that was ridiculous and he apologised but said that was it.

 

On the way back about 10 days later I thought I'll try again at arrivals since it is a bigger office there. This time I got a witch that joyously pointed out that my re-entry now had a couple of days less than their 6 month minimum rule. I decided to give up then especially since I have not found the whole system as useful as I initially thought I would and not worth this much trouble.

 

So a few days ago I was exiting at BKK again and had about an hour to go before boarding. I saw that there were several officers milling around next to the overstay counter with not much to do so thought I'll give it one more go. A lady officer understood immediately what I wanted, grabbed my passport and went to the small control room next to the Autochannel gates. I'm not kidding, 3-4 minutes later she came back, handed my passport back with a smile and said all done for another 2 years. No need for the form or the referee's ID card, no mention of any software problem and apparently no issue with the 6 month re-entry rule.

 

Sorry for the long winded story but my advice would be just ask another officer. My passport also has a soft cover and fully rigid data page ( as you described your new passport) and works ok. The machines themselves are about the crappiest money can buy and no doubt the software that drives them is too. Where else in the world have you seen machines designed to eliminate human labour that then need one assistant per machine to operate them?

 

 

[thedemon]

BTW, I asked an Immigration officer whether PR's really need to fill out the TM6 arrival/departure card since there is no one collecting them at the Autochannel lanes.

 

He told me providing we're using Autochannel there is no need for the TM6. He smiled a bit when he said that so I'm not sure whether he mean't that they officially aren't required or that no one cares so don't bother. Anyway, I haven't been bothering for a while and nothing has happened.

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

BTW, I asked an Immigration officer whether PR's really need to fill out the TM6 arrival/departure card since there is no one collecting them at the Autochannel lanes.

 

He told me providing we're using Autochannel there is no need for the TM6. He smiled a bit when he said that so I'm not sure whether he mean't that they officially aren't required or that no one cares so don't bother. Anyway, I haven't been bothering for a while and nothing has happened.

We should not believe what any individual immigration officer says. Every time I go to the autochannel and there is an officer, they are very quick to ask for the TM6-card.

 

While the immigration card has no meaning for anybody (they are only useful for TAT and we are not tourists), I can imagine that the new law says that only Thai people are exempted from filling them in.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, KevT said:

Is the application window only for accepting applications and the application process starts many months later, or does the application process start shortly after?

 

I am wondering for situations where say if someone has 1 month of work left for the 3 years total, for example, would that person have to wait 11 months for the next application window? Or would he be able to present documents/proof of work/taxes during or after the application process? In other words, is everything after the application window irrelevant, or it is possible to present new documents?

 

I would not bet much on an application being accepted from someone with less than 3 years' continuously on a WP, even if short by only one month.  The PR staff on the CW shop floor (highest rank is Sen Sgt Maj only) are only the initial screeners.  If they accept an application that later gets knocked back by someone higher up in Immigration, or at the MoI or any of the other agencies on the Immigration Committee, it will be a loss of face for the CW staff. 

 

The best advice is to take along all your docs, WP, passport etc to CW and ask the question directly to the PR staff.  They are will give you an honest opinion based on latest practice.  It is a lot of work to prepare all the documentation which you really need to prepare ahead of time, due to the usually short application window.  So you don't want to take the risk of being rejected after doing all that.    

[thedemon]

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

We should not believe what any individual immigration officer says. Every time I go to the autochannel and there is an officer, they are very quick to ask for the TM6-card.

 

While the immigration card has no meaning for anybody (they are only useful for TAT and we are not tourists), I can imagine that the new law says that only Thai people are exempted from filling them in.

 

They aren't officers. They are employees of the company that paid the bribes supplied the machines so you can safely ignore them. In any case they never ask me, ever. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

 

They aren't officers. They are employees of the company that paid the bribes supplied the machines so you can safely ignore them. In any case they never ask me, ever. 

 

I was told that the system was provided by Samart and that the operating contract is with TOT, which explains why there is no back-up and no emergency staff available to service it when it goes down out of civil service hours, but I have not verified this. At any rate the finger print recognition is very poor, as it frequently fails to recognise my prints. I just got back from a trip that involved entering the US twice. No problem with their finger print scanning system.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Hello,

 

I'll need to extend my PR validity for another 5 years by the end of this year, but before that I'll need to get a new re-entry due to a planned trip little before. My question is: can CW provide the one year re-entry when the PR validity is just few months left? Or do you recommend me to first extend the 5-year validity before asking for the re-entry?

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hello,

 

I'll need to extend my PR validity for another 5 years by the end of this year, but before that I'll need to get a new re-entry due to a planned trip little before. My question is: can CW provide the one year re-entry when the PR validity is just few months left? Or do you recommend me to first extend the 5-year validity before asking for the re-entry?

 

 CW gave a re-entry visa when my alien book was due to expire within the year. They are aware that PR is valid for life and that endorsing the red book at the cop shop is a mere formality. But I had a big problem after that with the Labour Ministry who forced me to endorse the red book before I could renew my WP. Otherwise they were only going to issue the WP up until the date the red book expired a few weeks away which I thought was ridiculous, given the lifetime validity of PR. So I was forced to drop everything and do some fast running around town to avoid a gap in my WP which could have been a problem for my citizenship application.