Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[rimmae2]

On 6/17/2018 at 12:12 PM, mrpickledgherkins said:

Went to CW yesterday to get my 1 year multiple Re-Entry permit stamped. Reached there at 1130 hrs.

1) Picked up 2 forms from the counter. Filled in both and affix 1 picture in each form.

2) Took queue number.

3) Went to Room E1. There was no queue waiting so it was quick.

4) Gave both the forms, PP,  Red Book, Blue book and Pink ID card to the officer.

5) She filled in the details on her computer, took a picture and generated a receipt of THB 5700 in my case (THB 1900 + THB 3800 for Multi Re-Entry)

6) Finger print taken on 2 ledgers and also both the forms that I submit.

7) She returned the Pink ID card and kept PP, Red Book and Blue Book and told to collect it after lunch (Lunch break is from 1200 hrs - 1300 hrs)

8 ) By 1310 got back my multi re entry stamped on PP and Blue Book. 

Had I been there 1 hour before lunch, the possibility was I could have got the job done before lunch.

I arrived at 1045 today and Officer informed me to come back at 1145 - went back at 1135 and immediately collected PP, Red and Blue Books. Was half expecting to be asked to come back after lunch as previous years when I probably arrived after 1100.

[KevT]

During the 3 years of the PR process, if you are employed and have a home in Thailand, are you allowed to leave the country for short-term travels (see family, to travel)? If so, would it be seen badly and affect your chances of getting PR? What is the duration that is allowed?

Edited July 12, 2018 by KevT

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, KevT said:

During the 3 years of the PR process, if you are employed and have a home in Thailand, are you allowed to leave the country for short-term travels (see family, to travel)? If so, would it be seen badly and affect your chances of getting PR? What is the duration that is allowed?

You can be out of the country as much as you want as long as your remain on extensions of stay for the 3 years. There is no limit on the amount of time you could be out of the country.

[Arkady]

9 hours ago, KevT said:

During the 3 years of the PR process, if you are employed and have a home in Thailand, are you allowed to leave the country for short-term travels (see family, to travel)? If so, would it be seen badly and affect your chances of getting PR? What is the duration that is allowed?

 

If you mean the 3-year qualifying period before you apply for PR, you just need to maintain continuous visas and work permits and must have been employed in the same job for at last 12 months before you apply.  No one cares if you leave the country for business or leisure during that time, as long as you remain qualified through continuous employment in Thailand with the proper documentation.  Once your application is in process, you get automatic 6 monthly extensions of stay from the PR section at CW until you either get PR or get rejected.  Again no one cares, if you leave the country during the process, as long as you keep your 6-monthly extensions current.  You can even become unemployed or retire during that time and it doesn't affect your application.  

 

The only except might be someone who maintained all the correct employment documentation during the 3-year qualifying period but had spent most of the time abroad.  That would lead them to suspect that the employment was fake.

[Horace]

On 7/2/2006 at 8:46 PM, camerata said:

Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.

I posted here a few weeks ago stating that you needed PR status before applying for citizenship, but someone else posted saying my information was about ten years out of date.  I checked with the company lawyer, and she told me that my information was indeed out of date, but true when I applied for citizenship (i.e., PR status was required when I applied).  In any event, this is a good article.

 

Incidentally, I actually found the written exam much easier than answering random questions in Thai (I have tin ear for tones).  The questions were very simple (e.g., what color is not on the Thai flag, etc.)  So there is hope if you're hopeless with tones.

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Horace said:

I posted here a few weeks ago stating that you needed PR status before applying for citizenship, but someone else posted saying my information was about ten years out of date.  I checked with the company lawyer, and she told me that my information was indeed out of date, but true when I applied for citizenship (i.e., PR status was required when I applied).  In any event, this is a good article.

 

Incidentally, I actually found the written exam much easier than answering random questions in Thai (I have tin ear for tones).  The questions were very simple (e.g., what color is not on the Thai flag, etc.)  So there is hope if you're hopeless with tones.

If you are married, you don't need to have PR status before you apply for citizenship. If you are not married, you need to have at least 5 years of PR status.

[My Thai Life]

About applying for citizenship after receiving PR.

 

Anyone know if it's still 5 years (for a foreigner not married to a Thai)?

 

Or has it been reduced?

 

thanks

[sas_cars]

Still 5 years

About applying for citizenship after receiving PR.
 
Anyone know if it's still 5 years (for a foreigner not married to a Thai)?
 
Or has it been reduced?
 
thanks

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Arkady]

58 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

About applying for citizenship after receiving PR.

 

Anyone know if it's still 5 years (for a foreigner not married to a Thai)?

 

Or has it been reduced?

 

thanks

The Nationality Act requires 5 years’ residence in the Kingdom but does not define this, leaving it open to interpretation by the MoI. In the not too distant past some people managed to slip through with less than 5 years’ PR but current interpretation is that you must have 5 years’ PR. A friend went to Soecial Branch to enquire about this a few weeks ago and he was told that under the current government they are insisting on 5 years’ PR and it was not worth trying for special treatment without ministerial level connections.

[THAIJAMES]

15 hours ago, Arkady said:

The Nationality Act requires 5 years’ residence in the Kingdom but does not define this, leaving it open to interpretation by the MoI. In the not too distant past some people managed to slip through with less than 5 years’ PR but current interpretation is that you must have 5 years’ PR. A friend went to Soecial Branch to enquire about this a few weeks ago and he was told that under the current government they are insisting on 5 years’ PR and it was not worth trying for special treatment without ministerial level connections.

 

I think that if you lost your PR from exiting the country without getting a re-entry permit,  you could still apply for citizenship because the requirement is not for PR but for residence for 5 years to be shown as proof either through the red book or your name on the blue tabien baan.

 

Am I correct in assuming this?

 

[sas_cars]

 
I think that if you lost your PR from exiting the country without getting a re-entry permit,  you could still apply for citizenship because the requirement is not for PR but for residence for 5 years to be shown as proof either through the red book or your name on the blue tabien baan.
 
Am I correct in assuming this?
 

I will strongly believe that you will lose your right to apply for citizenship if you lose your PR.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

 

I think that if you lost your PR from exiting the country without getting a re-entry permit,  you could still apply for citizenship because the requirement is not for PR but for residence for 5 years to be shown as proof either through the red book or your name on the blue tabien baan.

 

Am I correct in assuming this?

 

 

You are incorrect. The Nationality Act does not define the 5 years' residence but the guidelines issued by the Interior Ministry define it as 5 years with PR. If your PR has been cancelled, you are definitely not eligible to apply for citizenship on the basis of PR. You will have to apply for PR again and have it for 5 years before applying for citizenship.  

[KevT]

On 7/12/2018 at 8:40 PM, ubonjoe said:

[...]

 

On 7/13/2018 at 2:19 AM, Arkady said:

[...]

Thanks Arkady and ubonjoe, that really clears it up.

[scorecard]

On 7/14/2018 at 1:26 PM, Arkady said:

 

You are incorrect. The Nationality Act does not define the 5 years' residence but the guidelines issued by the Interior Ministry define it as 5 years with PR. If your PR has been cancelled, you are definitely not eligible to apply for citizenship on the basis of PR. You will have to apply for PR again and have it for 5 years before applying for citizenship.  

 

To Arkady,

 

Interesting subject, I got PR some 20+ years ago and still hold it, I was advised by a lawyer years ago that PR had no meaning / didn't count in terms of achieving citizenship.

 

Could you please share an overall comment regarding the current situation; PR as a conduit to citizenship.

 

Further, for PR holders 5 years / 20 years, do the other 'qualifying factors' still apply or are they different. Example, more recently another lawyer in a casual conversation said that currently citizenship applicants have to hold a current work permit, in place for at least 3 years. 

 

I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks.

 

 

[scorecard]

43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

To Arkady,

 

Interesting subject, I got PR some 20+ years ago and still hold it, I was advised by a lawyer years ago that PR had no meaning / didn't count in terms of achieving citizenship.

 

Could you please share an overall comment regarding the current situation; PR as a conduit to citizenship.

 

Further, for PR holders 5 years / 20 years, do the other 'qualifying factors' still apply or are they different. Example, more recently another lawyer in a casual conversation said that currently citizenship applicants have to hold a current work permit, in place for at least 3 years. 

 

I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks.

 

 

Add one more point, I am single.

[THAIJAMES]

 

On 7/14/2018 at 1:26 PM, Arkady said:

 

You are incorrect. The Nationality Act does not define the 5 years' residence but the guidelines issued by the Interior Ministry define it as 5 years with PR. If your PR has been cancelled, you are definitely not eligible to apply for citizenship on the basis of PR. You will have to apply for PR again and have it for 5 years before applying for citizenship.  

Thank you.  I will try my best to keep my PR :)

[sas_cars]

 
Thank you.  I will try my best to keep my PR :)

If i remember correctly, both you and I received our PRs on 2015 batch. So just 2 more years left to qualify for citizenship application. Keeping our fingers crossed.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

To Arkady,

 

Interesting subject, I got PR some 20+ years ago and still hold it, I was advised by a lawyer years ago that PR had no meaning / didn't count in terms of achieving citizenship.

 

Could you please share an overall comment regarding the current situation; PR as a conduit to citizenship.

 

Further, for PR holders 5 years / 20 years, do the other 'qualifying factors' still apply or are they different. Example, more recently another lawyer in a casual conversation said that currently citizenship applicants have to hold a current work permit, in place for at least 3 years. 

 

I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks.

 

 

The first lawyer was wrong but the second one is right.  PR is the only route to citizenship for males who are not married to Thais. You need to be able to show with tax receipts, work permit and salary confirmation letter that you are working in the Kingdom and have been doing so for at least 3 years.  It doesn't need to be the same job and you can change jobs within the 3 year qualifying period. Unlike applying for PR you need to keep your job after you have applied and during the application process, at least until you have been interviewed at the ministry but preferably until the bitter end, in case there is a change of minister and the new one recalls files for eligibility checking.  These two requirements are to satisfy the requirements in the Nationality Act that applicants for naturalisation should be resident in the Kingdom and have an occupation.  

 

If you have PR, you don't need a Thai wife to apply for citizenship or to be married at all but with no Thai wife, the minimum salary required during the 3 year qualifying period is B80,000 a month, as opposed to B40,000 with a  Thai wife.

[scorecard]

Thank you.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

The first lawyer was wrong but the second one is right.  PR is the only route to citizenship for males who are not married to Thais. You need to be able to show with tax receipts, work permit and salary confirmation letter that you are working in the Kingdom and have been doing so for at least 3 years.  It doesn't need to be the same job and you can change jobs within the 3 year qualifying period. Unlike applying for PR you need to keep your job after you have applied and during the application process, at least until you have been interviewed at the ministry but preferably until the bitter end, in case there is a change of minister and the new one recalls files for eligibility checking.  These two requirements are to satisfy the requirements in the Nationality Act that applicants for naturalisation should be resident in the Kingdom and have an occupation.  

 

If you have PR, you don't need a Thai wife to apply for citizenship or to be married at all but with no Thai wife, the minimum salary required during the 3 year qualifying period is B80,000 a month, as opposed to B40,000 with a  Thai wife.

 

Thank you, just a couple more question if you don't mind.

 

Does holding PR strongly improve your chances of gaining approval, or just help a little bit?

 

I saw a thread years back which had some details of a points system, from memory it mentioned that, as people get older it somehow reduces your overall points total to a situation where approval becomes difficult to impossible. I'm 73 years old.  

 

Is it true about the age points item, and does holding PR give some counter-balance to the age points item?

 

Look forward to your comments, when convenient. 

 

 

 

 

[Arkady]

55 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Thank you, just a couple more question if you don't mind.

 

Does holding PR strongly improve your chances of gaining approval, or just help a little bit?

 

I saw a thread years back which had some details of a points system, from memory it mentioned that, as people get older it somehow reduces your overall points total to a situation where approval becomes difficult to impossible. I'm 73 years old.  

 

Is it true about the age points item, and does holding PR give some counter-balance to the age points item?

 

Look forward to your comments, when convenient.

 

Here is the current points allocation system introduced in 2010. PR definitely gives you an advantage over those applying solely on the basis of marriage in getting the 50 out of 100 points needed for your application to be accepted by Special Branch.  You get 5 out of 10 for being over 60 but you get 20 points for having PR for 10 years or more.  The guys without PR applying on the basis of  marriage have to scrabble around a bit to get the 50 points because they start off 20 points down, as they get zero for residence. After they amended the law in 2008 to allow males with Thai wives to apply without PR they bumped up the points for PR and eliminated the points for having a wife and kids to make it harder for them.  Because they have a waiver from the requirement for knowledge of the Thai language, they also increased the points for Thai language and introduced the Knowledge of Thailand test in Thai.  All to little avail though, as many guys,  who can only speak one or two words of Thai, applying on the basis of a Thai wife are managing to scrape through the points system, usually younger guys with incomes above the minimum. 

 

If you are working and earning over the minimum B80,000 for PRs without a Thai wife and speak acceptable Thai you should easily qualify. Best thing is to go to Special Branch in Bangkok with your PR docs, passport and WP and consult with them. They will probably urge you to apply on the spot, if you live in Bangkok which is their jurisdiction. Having a residence in most provinces outside Bangkok is a problem though, as there is usually no one to take your application.  Lots more info here.

 

Points Allocation 2010 2 EN.doc

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

 

Thank you.  I will try my best to keep my PR ?

 

A friend of mine actually lost his PR as he had to have emergency surgery performed while on an overseas trip and couldn't make it back before his endorsement expired.  No amount of appeals with medical certificates could save him because it is mandated in the Immigration Act and no one has discretion not to cancel it under any circumstances.  Immigration were hugely apologetic about the cancellation but did help him reapply and fast tracked his application, so he got it back within a year.  However, that was in the days when 12 months was par for the course for all PR applicants.  I have heard of someone getting his PR in 10 months last year but it is still better to hang on to it. If there is any risk of being delayed overseas and your re-entry is running out, get it endorsed early before you travel.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

A friend of mine actually lost his PR as he had to have emergency surgery performed while on an overseas trip and couldn't make it back before his endorsement expired.  No amount of appeals with medical certificates could save him because it is mandated in the Immigration Act and no one has discretion not to cancel it under any circumstances.  Immigration were hugely apologetic about the cancellation but did help him reapply and fast tracked his application, so he got it back within a year.  However, that was in the days when 12 months was par for the course for all PR applicants.  I have heard of someone getting his PR in 10 months last year but it is still better to hang on to it. If there is any risk of being delayed overseas and your re-entry is running out, get it endorsed early before you travel.

 

Thanks for that, interesting to know. In my own case I live permenantly, in the North with my adult Thai son and his Thai wife and kids. I have no family whatever or home nowadays in my original country. Thailand is home in every respect and I've always been careful to get a multiple exit/re-entry stamp in my passport and PR book every 12 months and get the red police book updated well before the due date. So far so good. Thanks again.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by scorecard

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Thanks for that, interesting to know. In my own case I live permenantly, in the North with my adult Thai son and his Thai wife and kids. I have no family whatever or home nowadays in my original country. Thailand is home in every respect and I've always been careful to get a multiple exit/re-entry stamp in my passport and PR book every 12 months and get the red police book updated well before the due date. So far so good. Thanks again.

 

 

 

 

If you don’t plan to travel abroad and don’t foresee a need to make any emergency trips overseas, you can just let your re-entry permit and residence book endorsement lapse and only do it, if you decide to travel abroad. Letting them lapse is only a problem, if it happens while you are outside the Kingdom.

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

In my own case I live permenantly, in the North

 

Re your enquiry about citizenship, people have successfully applied in Chiang Mai but I doubt, if any of the other Northern provinces would be able and willing to handle an application.  The Act requires applicants in the provinces to apply to Special Branch in their province, probably for the ostensible convenience of applicants and the ease of local SB checking their backgrounds. The problem is that it is a complex process and it would be a lot of work for a provincial SB HQ to figure out how to do it for a one-off case. They would need to make many calls to the responsible Interior Ministry department at Lamlukka who tend to be contemptuous of the police and may be uncooperative. Most provincial SB HQs will either flatly refuse to process a citizenship application, deny it’s their job or agree to do it but just give you the run around  until you give up or try to process it as best they can but mess it up. Typically applicants in provinces other than CM, Chonburi and Phuket end up having to get on to a friend’s tabien Baan in Bangkok for a few years in order to apply successfully, which involves a number of trips to Bangkok. For some, particularly those without PR, all this may be worth the trouble. For others happy with PR, it might not be. I applied after 14 years of PR and it was worth it for me, as I wanted to be able to own land in my own name among other things and, fortunately, I live in Bangkok.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Re your enquiry about citizenship, people have successfully applied in Chiang Mai but I doubt, if any of the other Northern provinces would be able and willing to handle an application.  The Act requires applicants in the provinces to apply to Special Branch in their province, probably for the ostensible convenience of applicants and the ease of local SB checking their backgrounds. The problem is that it is a complex process and it would be a lot of work for a provincial SB HQ to figure out how to do it for a one-off case. They would need to make many calls to the responsible Interior Ministry department at Lamlukka who tend to be contemptuous of the police and may be uncooperative. Most provincial SB HQs will either flatly refuse to process a citizenship application, deny it’s their job or agree to do it but just give you the run around  until you give up or try to process it as best they can but mess it up. Typically applicants in provinces other than CM, Chonburi and Phuket end up having to get on to a friend’s tabien Baan in Bangkok for a few years in order to apply successfully, which involves a number of trips to Bangkok. For some, particularly those without PR, all this may be worth the trouble. For others happy with PR, it might not be. I applied after 14 years of PR and it was worth it for me, as I wanted to be able to own land in my own name among other things and, fortunately, I live in Bangkok.

Thanks, point taken, actually I will apply and I will do it in Bangkok.

 

From my understanding the Special Branch is located with the police headquarters complex on Rama 1, opposite Central World. 

 

I googled for the initial form with no success, is the application form on-line?

 

 

 

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks, point taken, actually I will apply and I will do it in Bangkok.

 

From my understanding the Special Branch is located with the police headquarters complex on Rama 1, opposite Central World. 

 

I googled for the initial form with no success, is the application form on-line?

 

 

Correct. You go down Henri Dunant Road and go in the last entrance to National Police HQ before the Police Nursing College. Pass the display of SB motor cycles. Pass the criminal records office in your right and the next one is the SB nationality section on the ground floor, Building 24, if I remember rightly. The application form is usually on the SB website along with a lot of other information in Thai only but you don’t need the form. SB will fill it out for you when you have satisfied all the requirements.

[scorecard]

Thanks, very focus information and very helpful, appreciate it.

[thedemon]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:26 PM, skyaslimit said:

Can we renew our red alien book before the expiry date?Or it has to be the specific date written by the police officer?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

I just renewed mine 3 months early.

 

It's just a guess but I suspect that it can be done up to a year before expiration because I recall that when it was first issued it was possible to pay for a year and then a subsequent 5 years at the same time. 

[skyaslimit]

 
I just renewed mine 3 months early.
 
It's just a guess but I suspect that it can be done up to a year before expiration because I recall that when it was first issued it was possible to pay for a year and then a subsequent 5 years at the same time. 

Thank you, I will give it a try next month, mine will expire in September 2018.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app