Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, onthemoon said:

No. They upgraded the Autochannel system before the Corona crisis, and the new software works only with Thai passports. They couldn't tell me when we can use it again, but I haven't travelled since early March, so I didn't follow up since then.

 

The old one was pretty iffy too. Sometimes closed and often didn't read the my fingerprints in Thai passport.  Cheap devices like mobile phones never had any problem reading them.  There are many reports of corruption regarding the new system. So I fear the worst.

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

The old one was pretty iffy too. Sometimes closed and often didn't read the my fingerprints in Thai passport.  Cheap devices like mobile phones never had any problem reading them.  There are many reports of corruption regarding the new system. So I fear the worst.

I agree (and did on the time, too) that the old system was not exactly state-of-the-art. So I was quote happy to hear that they have a new system. I am not familiar with the TOR in the bidding/contract, so I don't even know whether or when they will have to include foreign passports of any kind.

 

I'll be on it when the travelling starts again, but not here. There is another thread for this: 

 

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I agree (and did on the time, too) that the old system was not exactly state-of-the-art. So I was quote happy to hear that they have a new system. I am not familiar with the TOR in the bidding/contract, so I don't even know whether or when they will have to include foreign passports of any kind.

 

I'll be on it when the travelling starts again, but not here. There is another thread for this: 

 

It would be ridiculous, if they spent a load of taxpayers money with huge graft built in and it didn’t even include foreign passports. The old system was also for HK, Singapore and some other passports registered but not resident in Thailand.

 

Last time I enquired, before the lockdown, the new 10-year Thai passports, which should have been ready in May 2019, were still not available with no estimated time of arrival. That is another big commission outsourced project and it has to dovetail with Immigration’s new system.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

It would be ridiculous, if they spent a load of taxpayers money with huge graft built in and it didn’t even include foreign passports. The old system was also for HK, Singapore and some other passports registered but not resident in Thailand.

 

Last time I enquired, before the lockdown, the new 10-year Thai passports, which should have been ready in May 2019, were still not available with no estimated time of arrival. That is another big commission outsourced project and it has to dovetail with Immigration’s new system.

 

In other words there is no accountability whatever. 

[mortenaa]

On 6/7/2020 at 2:00 AM, onthemoon said:

No. They upgraded the Autochannel system before the Corona crisis, and the new software works only with Thai passports. They couldn't tell me when we can use it again, but I haven't travelled since early March, so I didn't follow up since then.

They told me the same that they "upgraded" the system. I thought it was just some kind of excuse. That\s a pity though. Really enjoyed using the machines over standing in line getting my book full of stamps.

[Badb0y]

Haven't read this topic quite a while because waited to have 3yr work permit.

Next month I'm going to have the 3yr non immigrant visa with the same company, monthly salary was more then 80k and due to my company was hit hard due to Covid-19 I don't think if a mentioned 2nd wave will come my company will survive (or me) so I need to action fast.

Based on this article couple of questions came to my mind.

 

1.

Do I need to have a work permit at the time of the application or is it enough to have historical tax receipts?

 

2.

Is it possible to go with the wife and she can help with the Thai or they need conversational Thai?

 

3.

Such a shame after 3 years my Thai still terrible, if I fail the Thai test but I can reach the 50 points can I get the visa?

 

4.

If I calculate the points, I have 38 points with Age, Education and profession Criteria so I need additional 12 at least. Personality let's say they can give 5 point, if I'm lucky I can get these questions, I might get 5-8 points, and I heard some donation before, but I'm not sure about how many point and what is the steps to get point of it? When I have to donate and where, how much?

 

5.

I can learn to introduce myself, talk about my history a bit and why I want to apply for a citizenship, would that be enough?

Is there any special panel questions that I might get from the officer during the Thai interview so I can prepare.

 

6.

Can I apply if I married less than 1 year ago, however we live together more than 2 years? Also if I adopt a baby, does it count as my child in the application?

 

7. Tabien baan I assume is out of scope from my point of view because I just rented in the last 3 years.

 

Hope guys you can help.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Badb0y

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, Badb0y said:

Haven't read this topic quite a while because waited to have 3yr work permit.

Next month I'm going to have the 3yr non immigrant visa with the same company, monthly salary was more then 80k and due to my company was hit hard due to Covid-19 I don't think if a mentioned 2nd wave will come my company will survive (or me) so I need to action fast.

Based on this article couple of questions came to my mind.

 

1.

Do I need to have a work permit at the time of the application or is it enough to have historical tax receipts?

 

2.

Is it possible to go with the wife and she can help with the Thai or they need conversational Thai?

 

3.

Such a shame after 3 years my Thai still terrible, if I fail the Thai test but I can reach the 50 points can I get the visa?

 

4.

If I calculate the points, I have 38 points with Age, Education and profession Criteria so I need additional 12 at least. Personality let's say they can give 5 point, if I'm lucky I can get these questions, I might get 5-8 points, and I heard some donation before, but I'm not sure about how many point and what is the steps to get point of it? When I have to donate and where, how much?

 

5.

I can learn to introduce myself, talk about my history a bit and why I want to apply for a citizenship, would that be enough?

Is there any special panel questions that I might get from the officer during the Thai interview so I can prepare.

 

6.

Can I apply if I married less than 1 year ago, however we live together more than 2 years? Also if I adopt a baby, does it count as my child in the application?

 

7. Tabien baan I assume is out of scope from my point of view because I just rented in the last 3 years.

 

Hope guys you can help.

 

Thanks in advance.

You will get better response, if you post this in the Story of My Thai Citizenship thread, if that’s what you’re after This thread is about permanent residence.

[Badb0y]

9 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

You will get better response, if you post this in the Story of My Thai Citizenship thread, if that’s what you’re after This thread is about permanent residence.

Okay, thank you.

[Badb0y]

Ehhh, I mix matched 2 topics, sorry about it, this is the question that I wanted to put here:

 

Next month I'm going to have the 3yr non immigrant visa with the same company, monthly salary was more then 80k and due to my company was hit hard due to Covid-19 I don't think if a mentioned 2nd wave will come my company will survive (or me) so I need to action fast because I need to have the work permit at the time of the application.

Based on this article I'd go with the 1st option.

 

Couple of question came up in my mind when read many articles on the internet.

1.

Is there anywhere written correctly what is the steps for the application? I read that they opened the application around October and limit to 100 people/country. I guess from my small country not many people will apply, but where I can apply? Is there a website or some guide what I need to do in the next month to let the ball rolling?

 

2.

It's quite a shame but my Thai is still terrible, still have to sing the national anthem and talk in Thai during the interview? If yes is there any panel questions that I can prepare and practice? Could my girlfriend (or maybe that time my wife) come with me and help?

 

3.

I remember if don't have wife, the costs is 200k, if I have, 100k. Is this still applicable? What if I have an adopted baby from my wife? Also is it a problem if the marriage cert is like 2-3 months old (fresh) when apply?

 

4.

The limitation of the permanent residency is only you can't have land compared to the citizenship as I remember, but how about business? Can I establish a massage/fitness/restaurant or all business with PR visa?

 

5.

My country let me to have dual citizenship, as I remember for that if you married and have a baby, you just need 1 year and you can apply for it without this much costs. I scare a bit about covid affect so not sure I can wait 1 year ????

Would be curious the proper steps of this also.

Furthermore if I have this visa for 5 years, can apply for citizenship correct?

 

Hope guys you can help.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Badb0y]

If I have PR do I need work permit to establish a business or work for a company?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Badb0y said:

If I have PR do I need work permit to establish a business or work for a company?

You need a work permit to work with PR.

[Badb0y]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:08 AM, ubonjoe said:

You need a work permit to work with PR.

If you have citizenship you need work permit as well/

Do you know about business? Do I need anything special if I'm a PR holder?

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, Badb0y said:

If you have citizenship you need work permit as well/

No

35 minutes ago, Badb0y said:

Do you know about business? Do I need anything special if I'm a PR holder?

Nothing special. All you need is a work permit to work legally.

[Badb0y]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No

Nothing special. All you need is a work permit to work legally.

Hmmm, so if I establish a business can I give myself work permit?

[ubonjoe]

55 minutes ago, Badb0y said:

Hmmm, so if I establish a business can I give myself work permit?

Yes If the business qualifies for one.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Badb0y said:

Hmmm, so if I establish a business can I give myself work permit?

My work permit is with my own company. So, yes.

[Michael Hare]

Just extended my PR in the Ubon Ratchathani police station for another 5 years. Took 20 minutes. I always forget what documents they need and of course they do not require any documents at all. Just the old brown-red book. The policeman doing the paperwork asked me if I had moved house during the last 5 years. I said, yes, and showed him my new address. As usual, I asked how many foreigners did PR through the Ubon office. He said they had about 400 on their books. 

[Arkady]

49 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Just extended my PR in the Ubon Ratchathani police station for another 5 years. Took 20 minutes. I always forget what documents they need and of course they do not require any documents at all. Just the old brown-red book. The policeman doing the paperwork asked me if I had moved house during the last 5 years. I said, yes, and showed him my new address. As usual, I asked how many foreigners did PR through the Ubon office. He said they had about 400 on their books. 

 

I was once fined the sum of B100 for late reporting that I had changed my address but this was because I had moved from one police precinct to another.  Perhaps this is not an issue if you move within the same police precinct. I once asked the some question of the officer who had an important looking sign on his desk saying "Registration of Aliens" implying this was all he did.  He told me there were about 100 PR aliens in my police precinct in Bangkok.  I guess these are highly sort after jobs and a good reason why the police and Immigration will always resist change to a more modern system of smart ID cards issued by district offices.

 

I don't know if Ubon Ratchathani police station handles all the red books in the whole province.  In Bangkok every single police station has this aliens registration desk, as far as I know.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Just extended my PR in the Ubon Ratchathani police station for another 5 years. Took 20 minutes. I always forget what documents they need and of course they do not require any documents at all. Just the old brown-red book. The policeman doing the paperwork asked me if I had moved house during the last 5 years. I said, yes, and showed him my new address. As usual, I asked how many foreigners did PR through the Ubon office. He said they had about 400 on their books. 

I need to get the 5 year police RED book renewal on 12 August this year. However I'm caught in Australia with difficulties to return to Thailand because of Covid 19:

 

- Cannot, at the moment, get permission to leave Australia.

- Thai PR book re-entry stamp expires 17 November 2020, already spoke to Thai embassy in Sydney they advised I might be allowed to join a Thai repat. flight but dates of the flights unknown and next one not for at least 60 days. Plus Sydney embassy said I need to apply for repat flight much closer to 17 November, not now. (There is of a course an extension of 12 months on the re-entry date.)

- I mentioned to the Sydney embassy that my Thai police RED book needs the 5 year renewal on 12 August. Officer at embassy had no idea what I was talking about, neither did his boss, but was keen to listen and build his understanding. Boss did suggest that I get a family member in Chiang Mai to take copies of every document to the CM police station which handles this and seek advice. He also said that PR books etc., are immigration matters and must always be totally correct, whereas the police requirements probably have some flexibility because of the current situation.

 

Luckily the policeman who handles the RED books at CM police station is very pleasant and welcoming. Last time my Thai son came with me and the policeman privately said to my son, your father is getting old if he has health problems next time and difficult to get to the station they no need for him to come, just bring all the documents and new photo and the RED book and it can be renewed without difficulty.

 

The difficulty this year is that I will in Aust. because of Covid issues so my son will go to CM police station about 4 weeks before renewal date with copies of all the documents (but of course not the original RED book). The plan is for my son to ask the policeman to accept the copies of all the documents and new photo and also pay the fee (last time 800Baht) with a promise I will bring the original book to the station very quickly after I do return to Thailand.

 

Hopefully the policeman will agree. 

 

 

[Arkady]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I need to get the 5 year police RED book renewal on 12 August this year. However I'm caught in Australia with difficulties to return to Thailand because of Covid 19:

 

- Cannot, at the moment, get permission to leave Australia.

- Thai PR book re-entry stamp expires 17 November 2020, already spoke to Thai embassy in Sydney they advised I might be allowed to join a Thai repat. flight but dates of the flights unknown and next one not for at least 60 days. Plus Sydney embassy said I need to apply for repat flight much closer to 17 November, not now. (There is of a course an extension of 12 months on the re-entry date.)

- I mentioned to the Sydney embassy that my Thai police RED book needs the 5 year renewal on 12 August. Officer at embassy had no idea what I was talking about, neither did his boss, but was keen to listen and build his understanding. Boss did suggest that I get a family member in Chiang Mai to take copies of every document to the CM police station which handles this and seek advice. He also said that PR books etc., are immigration matters and must always be totally correct, whereas the police requirements probably have some flexibility because of the current situation.

 

Luckily the policeman who handles the RED books at CM police station is very pleasant and welcoming. Last time my Thai son came with me and the policeman privately said to my son, your father is getting old if he has health problems next time and difficult to get to the station they no need for him to come, just bring all the documents and new photo and the RED book and it can be renewed without difficulty.

 

The difficulty this year is that I will in Aust. because of Covid issues so my son will go to CM police station about 4 weeks before renewal date with copies of all the documents (but of course not the original RED book). The plan is for my son to ask the policeman to accept the copies of all the documents and new photo and also pay the fee (last time 800Baht) with a promise I will bring the original book to the station very quickly after I do return to Thailand.

 

Hopefully the policeman will agree. 

 

 

If you are sure your son can manage the renewal of the red book without you, you could courier the book to him.  Courier services to Thailand are working normally as they have their own planes (I am expecting a DHL delivery from the US this afternoon). There doesn't seem much point in getting him to try to renew your red book without the book.  On the other hand, not endorsing your red book on time is not very serious as far as I know. I believe there would just be small fine to pay.  Why not get your son to ask them.  If they confirm it is not to serious, you can save all the trouble and wait till you get back and pay the fine.

 

Hopefully travel to Thailand will be easier by November but no guarantee of that. 

[Michael Hare]

21 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I need to get the 5 year police RED book renewal on 12 August this year. However I'm caught in Australia with difficulties to return to Thailand because of Covid 19:

 

- Cannot, at the moment, get permission to leave Australia.

- Thai PR book re-entry stamp expires 17 November 2020, already spoke to Thai embassy in Sydney they advised I might be allowed to join a Thai repat. flight but dates of the flights unknown and next one not for at least 60 days. Plus Sydney embassy said I need to apply for repat flight much closer to 17 November, not now. (There is of a course an extension of 12 months on the re-entry date.)

- I mentioned to the Sydney embassy that my Thai police RED book needs the 5 year renewal on 12 August. Officer at embassy had no idea what I was talking about, neither did his boss, but was keen to listen and build his understanding. Boss did suggest that I get a family member in Chiang Mai to take copies of every document to the CM police station which handles this and seek advice. He also said that PR books etc., are immigration matters and must always be totally correct, whereas the police requirements probably have some flexibility because of the current situation.

 

Luckily the policeman who handles the RED books at CM police station is very pleasant and welcoming. Last time my Thai son came with me and the policeman privately said to my son, your father is getting old if he has health problems next time and difficult to get to the station they no need for him to come, just bring all the documents and new photo and the RED book and it can be renewed without difficulty.

 

The difficulty this year is that I will in Aust. because of Covid issues so my son will go to CM police station about 4 weeks before renewal date with copies of all the documents (but of course not the original RED book). The plan is for my son to ask the policeman to accept the copies of all the documents and new photo and also pay the fee (last time 800Baht) with a promise I will bring the original book to the station very quickly after I do return to Thailand.

 

Hopefully the policeman will agree. 

 

 

The policeman on duty in Ubon today said that many of the 400 PRs had retired and don't always come along. Maybe they are too old and send a relative along. I think Ubon police station does the whole province. Why don't you send your red book up to your son by DHL or FedEx? I agree that the police in the police station are more relaxed and flexible than those at immigration. 

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, Arkady said:

If you are sure your son can manage the renewal of the red book without you, you could courier the book to him.  Courier services to Thailand are working normally as they have their own planes (I am expecting a DHL delivery from the US this afternoon). There doesn't seem much point in getting him to try to renew your red book without the book.  On the other hand, not endorsing your red book on time is not very serious as far as I know. I believe there would just be small fine to pay.  Why not get your son to ask them.  If they confirm it is not to serious, you can save all the trouble and wait till you get back and pay the fine.

 

Hopefully travel to Thailand will be easier by November but no guarantee of that. 

 

Thanks Arkady and Michael, in fact that's why my son is going to CM police station 1 month early to test if they will accept/hold the copies of the documents and the fee. If not he will fall back to me sending the original book to him by courier or EMS, which should take only 3 or 4 days unless there's any

slowdown because of the current circumstances. 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by scorecard

[Arkady]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

The policeman on duty in Ubon today said that many of the 400 PRs had retired and don't always come along. Maybe they are too old and send a relative along. I think Ubon police station does the whole province. Why don't you send your red book up to your son by DHL or FedEx? I agree that the police in the police station are more relaxed and flexible than those at immigration. 

Also, as far as I know, the only big issue with the red book is if you don't apply for it in time after your PR is first approved which can result in cancellation of your PR under the Immigration Act. I think that is the requirement to do with the red book that is written in concrete in the law. The rest is just police regulations with small fines as penalties. 

 

It makes sense that red books in the provinces are handled by the main provincial police station as most police stations would have no PRs in their precincts.  Most of the farangs living in villages don't have PR as they came to retire and had never worked in the Kingdom.  I suspect there are some police precincts in Bangkok with very few too.  I don't know what happens in the surrounding provinces like Nonthaburi and Patum Thani or the other provinces with a lot of foreigners like Phuket, Chonburi, Surat and Chiang Mai.

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Also, as far as I know, the only big issue with the red book is if you don't apply for it in time after your PR is first approved which can result in cancellation of your PR under the Immigration Act. I think that is the requirement to do with the red book that is written in concrete in the law. The rest is just police regulations with small fines as penalties. 

 

It makes sense that red books in the provinces are handled by the main provincial police station as most police stations would have no PRs in their precincts.  Most of the farangs living in villages don't have PR as they came to retire and had never worked in the Kingdom.  I suspect there are some police precincts in Bangkok with very few too.  I don't know what happens in the surrounding provinces like Nonthaburi and Patum Thani or the other provinces with a lot of foreigners like Phuket, Chonburi, Surat and Chiang Mai.

 

CM has one policeman handling this at a main station, he mentioned before there are 12 PR holders in CM province.

 

When I got the PR approval letter my agent, who was aware that those approved had to get everything documented quickly, went into instant 'high speed' mode to:

 

- Get me to the old Imm. office at Soi suan Phlu for the dark blue PR book, and the next day...

- to the local major police station to get the police RED book.

 

I recall my agent mentioned 'PR and RED book must be issued within 7 days of the date on the approval letter and the days in the postal delivery process and week-ends/public holidays are counted in the 7 days'.

 

 

 

[Michael Hare]

23 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Also, as far as I know, the only big issue with the red book is if you don't apply for it in time after your PR is first approved which can result in cancellation of your PR under the Immigration Act. I think that is the requirement to do with the red book that is written in concrete in the law. The rest is just police regulations with small fines as penalties. 

 

It makes sense that red books in the provinces are handled by the main provincial police station as most police stations would have no PRs in their precincts.  Most of the farangs living in villages don't have PR as they came to retire and had never worked in the Kingdom.  I suspect there are some police precincts in Bangkok with very few too.  I don't know what happens in the surrounding provinces like Nonthaburi and Patum Thani or the other provinces with a lot of foreigners like Phuket, Chonburi, Surat and Chiang Mai.

I think the high number of PR holders in Ubon are of Vietnamese and Chinese descent. A huge number of Vietnamese live in northeast Thailand, particularly in Ubon, Mukdahan, Nakhon Panom and Sakhon Nakon provinces. In some rural areas, the whole village is Catholic of Vietnamese descent. I remember being at a buddhist funeral of a Vietnamese lady, and sitting at a table afterwards, the old men said that they were still not Thai and only had PR with red book. They were all local businessmen. 

[Emmess]

Why even take the red book out of the country? Also no biggie if not renewed on time, just a small fine.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Thanks Arkady and Michael, in fact that's why my son is going to CM police station 1 month early to test if they will accept/hold the copies of the documents and the fee. If not he will fall back to me sending the original book to him by courier or EMS, which should take only 3 or 4 days unless there's any

slowdown because of the current circumstances. 

 

 

Perhaps I should mention my Thai son is 36 years old not a little boy and understands all the documents. He's well educated and very capable of polite/focused discussion with the RED book policeman.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

CM has one policeman handling this at a main station, he mentioned before there are 12 PR holders in CM province.

 

When I got the PR approval letter my agent, who was aware that those approved had to get everything documented quickly, went into instant 'high speed' mode to:

 

- Get me to the old Imm. office at Soi suan Phlu for the dark blue PR book, and the next day...

- to the local major police station to get the police RED book.

 

I recall my agent mentioned 'PR and RED book must be issued within 7 days of the date on the approval letter and the days in the postal delivery process and week-ends/public holidays are counted in the 7 days'.

After taking another look at the Immigration Act I realise there is nothing there about red books but you can lose your PR, if you fail to apply for the blue residence book within 30 days of your approval. 

 

It is required to apply for the red book within 7 days of getting your residence book but under a police regulation I guess or another law. The penalty for being late is apparently a fine not cancellation of PR.  I had either not been told about this or hadn't listened and applied for mine on the last day as I got my residence book just before ew Year holidays. I was no. 1 registered in the new year in my police station and the cops told me I was just in time to avoid having my PR cancelled.  Now I think this was probably a bit of an exaggeration. 

[Arkady]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Perhaps I should mention my Thai son is 36 years old not a little boy and understands all the documents. He's well educated and very capable of polite/focused discussion with the RED book policeman.

 

555.  Good that you mentioned that.  I had images of a little boy in shorts going along and peering over the desk in the cop shop.

[onthemoon]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

If you are sure your son can manage the renewal of the red book without you, you could courier the book to him.  Courier services to Thailand are working normally as they have their own planes (I am expecting a DHL delivery from the US this afternoon). There doesn't seem much point in getting him to try to renew your red book without the book.  On the other hand, not endorsing your red book on time is not very serious as far as I know. I believe there would just be small fine to pay.  Why not get your son to ask them.  If they confirm it is not to serious, you can save all the trouble and wait till you get back and pay the fine.

 

Hopefully travel to Thailand will be easier by November but no guarantee of that. 

I once renewed totally useless the dark red book at the police station a couple of months late and was fined THB 400. Much cheaper than a courier, and no risk of loss and no headache.