DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[WallyCleaver]

Often, in a crime case, the initial suspects are suspects for good reason. The above post by Wally Cleaver is a reminder at how the investigation was initially going forward at a good clip, ...yet it got its wings clipped and took a 180 degree turn all of a sudden. Two suspects, with mucho evidence pointing at them, were suddenly let off completely - not detained, no further questions, no longer suspects ...in the blink of an eye.

It's not too ludicrous a scenario to those of us who are familiar with how things happen here in Thailand. Big Shots with Big Money can do anything here.

They were not the initial suspects.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

LOL

Playing semantics fails here as 2 other sets of suspects were named before that (maybe 3)

Semantics? No. Wrong again.

I was just quoting the Police Commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, says the headmans brother was the first suspect and the son ran off to Bangkok.(verified by thr headman)

Why not back up your statement with the link?

[taony]

There is no semantics, its just jd playing games again to derail the conversation. The other two "sets" of suspects were never suspects. It was just fantasy talk because "no Thai could do this, it must have been Burmese or his jealous gay lover". They were never suspects. The first suspects were the brother and son.

[Soutpeel]

Playing semantics fails here as 2 other sets of suspects were named before that (maybe 3)

Hardly semantics, its quoting directly from a reliable source from comments made by the RTP themselves and a Lt-Gen no less, you accept everything else the RTP say as gospel, so why not this ?

[thailandchilli]

Playing semantics fails here as 2 other sets of suspects were named before that (maybe 3)

Hardly semantics, its quoting directly from a reliable source from comments made by the RTP themselves and a Lt-Gen no less, you accept everything else the RTP say as gospel, so why not this ?

I think jdinasia is confusing 'persons of interest' and 'suspects'

Being a suspect would assume that a DNA test would be taken, Mon had that done I think, the persons of interest did not.

[WallyCleaver]

Who is protecting the headman's brother and son?

The phone records of the headman and island police need to be looked at.

[DennisF]

Who is protecting the headman's brother and son?

The phone records of the headman and island police need to be looked at.

You really need to check some older posts an threads.

[DennisF]

Playing semantics fails here as 2 other sets of suspects were named before that (maybe 3)

Hardly semantics, its quoting directly from a reliable source from comments made by the RTP themselves and a Lt-Gen no less, you accept everything else the RTP say as gospel, so why not this ?

I think jdinasia is confusing 'persons of interest' and 'suspects'

Being a suspect would assume that a DNA test would be taken, Mon had that done I think, the persons of interest did not.

It was probably not defined too well on google. <deleted>

[DennisF]

Oh the joys of reading this thread.

Kivi guy lived here about 8 months, tryed get dj work didnt work got caught on stealing from charity donation box,was told to move on . . Moved koh phangan didnt work out for him there either.. Then to Bangkok not much joy and after he become very critic against everything Thailand.

U can see that by falloving hes blogs.

I agree hes story is quite accurate.

But colored with red pen just to make it more interesting wich sadly makes hole story fictional .

#FACT

Koh Tao, such a small place, so few people, everybody knows each others business, interesting

I agree but I think the point you made went over his head!!

[jdinasia]

Playing semantics fails here as 2 other sets of suspects were named before that (maybe 3)

Hardly semantics, its quoting directly from a reliable source from comments made by the RTP themselves and a Lt-Gen no less, you accept everything else the RTP say as gospel, so why not this ?

I think jdinasia is confusing 'persons of interest' and 'suspects'

Being a suspect would assume that a DNA test would be taken, Mon had that done I think, the persons of interest did not.

Umm

Wrong

http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/thai-police-question-british-man-christopher-alan-ware-over-british-tourist-murders-on-koh-tao/story-fnizu68q-1227061922322

[boomerangutang]

I've never been to Ko Tao, though have been several times to Samui and Pagnan. Oddly, I was planning to go to Ko Tao just days before the crime happened, but got sidelined with something. My earlier impression of the place was colored by a short video I had on CD which showcased 4 American backpackers who went there to do bouldering. The were so serious about climbing, they were sponsored by climbing gear companies, and all 4 had big orange ''crash pads' (like mattresses) strapped to their backpacks. It was an enjoyable video and showed 4 cheerful farang having a fine time at a beautiful tropical setting.

Fastforward to today: The reputation of the island is in the wastecan. Thai investigators are ill-trained, inept, can't think outside the box, and probably paid to shield the headman's people. One net result is: crass murderers and gang rapists are roaming free there, going to bars to party, charm-talking pretty young farang chicks, probably slipping mickeys in to their drinks. If any backpackers ask me if it's ok to go the island, I'll give you one guess what my answer will be.

[IslandLover]

watcharacters, on 13 Nov 2014 - 07:35, said:

If anyone is serious about researching this murder and finding the killer, I'd suggest supplying some details to www dot websleuths dot com. These are dedicated and perseverant crime investigators.

Agreed, it's an excellent site and they have a thread running on the Koh Tao murders.

[IslandLover]

tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:

Sounds reasonable but wasnt Hannah or David staying in room with others or at least next door to others and would have thought a lot of noise would have been made or at least some that neighbours would hear something,maybe some Backpackers did report noises etc and ignored by those in charge!

If she was drugged then could explain a lot in motive and lack of defensive wounds,blond hair in her hand would be one of the gang of murderers for sure.

Im pretty sure that it is well known exactly what happened on that fatefull night by many but money has changed hands(allegedly) then we can kiss goodbye to it ever being revealed...all we can hope for is burma guys get let off and the scum who did the crime suffer financially with people not going to the Island,sorry for all the good guys there trying to earn a living.Many people that live on the island probably would like to help the truth come out but who can they tell..the police? the army? the press...could be a deathwish!

I did read somewhere (can't find link now) that two French girls heard something but dismissed it as drunks larking around. I've not seen this reported since though.

Chris Ware was David's room-mate who could account for his movements until the early hours of the morning on 15th September when David left the room allegedly to buy cigarettes. This was reported in the British press a while ago. Little has been reported on the whereabouts of the other Ware brother, Jimmy, though, and it is not known in which room he was staying. Hannah was travelling with three other girls and shared a room with one of them.

I find it impossible to believe the murders took place inside the victims' rooms but they may have happened elsewhere on the property of course. I do believe that eventual crime scene was "staged" in some way to make it look like David and Hannah were having a romantic liaison on the beach. IMHO her body was deliberately left in a grotesque "pose" and the hoe was used in-situ as a final act of "revenge", or to cover something up.

Edited November 13, 2014 by IslandLover

[simonuk]

Oh the joys of reading this thread.

Kivi guy lived here about 8 months, tryed get dj work didnt work got caught on stealing from charity donation box,was told to move on . . Moved koh phangan didnt work out for him there either.. Then to Bangkok not much joy and after he become very critic against everything Thailand.

U can see that by falloving hes blogs.

I agree hes story is quite accurate.

But colored with red pen just to make it more interesting wich sadly makes hole story fictional .

#FACT

Charity box ??? I've never noticed one in Thailand before.

Where are you from by the way islandlife? ?

Edited November 13, 2014 by simonuk

[Islandlife]

I've never been to Ko Tao, though have been several times to Samui and Pagnan. Oddly, I was planning to go to Ko Tao just days before the crime happened, but got sidelined with something. My earlier impression of the place was colored by a short video I had on CD which showcased 4 American backpackers who went there to do bouldering. The were so serious about climbing, they were sponsored by climbing gear companies, and all 4 had big orange ''crash pads' (like mattresses) strapped to their backpacks. It was an enjoyable video and showed 4 cheerful farang having a fine time at a beautiful tropical setting.

Fastforward to today: The reputation of the island is in the wastecan. Thai investigators are ill-trained, inept, can't think outside the box, and probably paid to shield the headman's people. One net result is: crass murderers and gang rapists are roaming free there, going to bars to party, charm-talking pretty young farang chicks, probably slipping mickeys in to their drinks. If any backpackers ask me if it's ok to go the island, I'll give you one guess what my answer will be.

Well boomerang not shure where u live but shure nobody never murdered there? Luckily all people aint as daft as you are. Nobody is not interested quessing your answears .

Jesus wept...

[Islandlife]

Oh the joys of reading this thread.

Kivi guy lived here about 8 months, tryed get dj work didnt work got caught on stealing from charity donation box,was told to move on . . Moved koh phangan didnt work out for him there either.. Then to Bangkok not much joy and after he become very critic against everything Thailand.

U can see that by falloving hes blogs.

I agree hes story is quite accurate.

But colored with red pen just to make it more interesting wich sadly makes hole story fictional .

#FACT

Charity box ??? I've never noticed one in Thailand before.

Where are you from by the way islandlife? ?

Well moust of my life i have lived in Koh tao.and answear to you question is: there is lots of donation boxes around the island in bars restaurants for such causes as animal clinic and for local school and other community projects.

[simonuk]

I've never been to Ko Tao, though have been several times to Samui and Pagnan. Oddly, I was planning to go to Ko Tao just days before the crime happened, but got sidelined with something. My earlier impression of the place was colored by a short video I had on CD which showcased 4 American backpackers who went there to do bouldering. The were so serious about climbing, they were sponsored by climbing gear companies, and all 4 had big orange ''crash pads' (like mattresses) strapped to their backpacks. It was an enjoyable video and showed 4 cheerful farang having a fine time at a beautiful tropical setting.

Fastforward to today: The reputation of the island is in the wastecan. Thai investigators are ill-trained, inept, can't think outside the box, and probably paid to shield the headman's people. One net result is: crass murderers and gang rapists are roaming free there, going to bars to party, charm-talking pretty young farang chicks, probably slipping mickeys in to their drinks. If any backpackers ask me if it's ok to go the island, I'll give you one guess what my answer will be.

Well boomerang not shure where u live but shure nobody never murdered there? Luckily all people aint as daft as you are. Nobody is not interested quessing your answears .

Jesus wept...

I live in a city of a million , sure murders happen but they are more often than not solved.

Several years ago there was a young girl murdered in a near by tower block, the flat then set on fire. The who place was gutted by the fire.

The girl had several male visitors on a regular basis none of whom came forward.

Police managed to track them all down using a dna swab from the mirror in the hallway .

Apparently most of the men would wait in the hall and look at them selves in the mirror. Their breath would then settle on the mirror leaving traces of dna that were identifiable even post fire and covered in soot.

The detectives told me this when they came to debrief us at the fire station where I work months later.

Put simply the Thai police especially on koh tao are about 100 years behind those in Europe in training and skills and a million miles away in terms of ethics .

[Lozza]

I'm not sure where to post this-

the body of missing Swiss snorkeler on KT has been found naked with what appears to be stab wounds to his left side. The photo's are on the CSILA.

You are not sure where to post this garbage because nothing like this is on CSI LA. There is NO MENTION of stab wounds, just that the diver (may he rest in peace) had a sore eye prior to diving. Please stop spreading rumors.

Do not call me a liar..ok. And do not accuse me of spreading rumours creep.

The photo's are there as confirmed by others.

He was pulled in from a fishing boat net..he has what appear to be stab wound.

It's possible the photo's were pulled by someone not wanting this to not be known.

If you can't maneuver a facebook site...your problem, deal with it before mouthing off.

[Lozza]

I'm not sure where to post this-

the body of missing Swiss snorkeler on KT has been found naked with what appears to be stab wounds to his left side. The photo's are on the CSILA.

You are not sure where to post this garbage because nothing like this is on CSI LA. There is NO MENTION of stab wounds, just that the diver (may he rest in peace) had a sore eye prior to diving. Please stop spreading rumors.

To be fair to mr Lozza there is a post in Thai by some bird, its in Thai so no idea what shes on about but the picture shows a body being pulled out the sea in a fishing net.It looks like it has some trauma on the side of the body.

Not sure if its related to/is the missing Swiss guy or not so could be croosed wires.

Its not on the Masters timeline, you have to go to posted comments on the left.

It was said it was the missing swiss guy and reported in a newspaper called ... wan.

It is a falang, if it's not the snorkeler then who is it.

I doubt everyone on KT have been told not to reference this tragedy or else.

Next of kin have to be notified first which means the RTP are getting their ducks lined up.

If the photo's have disappeared..then someone has stepped up and removed them.

I did read a BS story about how he had depression, mentioned to the dive shop how sad he was...only a thai can tell a story like that it was so far fetched I stopped reading the remaining &lt;deleted&gt;.

[IslandLover]

I came across this photo of one of the Koh Tao residents today. Perhaps Islandlife can identify him? Scary looking dude

Edited November 13, 2014 by IslandLover

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to the Daily Telegraph has been removed as it is in violation of the below:

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

Discussion of the Lese Majeste law or Lese Majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them.

[SteveFong]

tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:tattoodrob, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:24, said:

Sounds reasonable but wasnt Hannah or David staying in room with others or at least next door to others and would have thought a lot of noise would have been made or at least some that neighbours would hear something,maybe some Backpackers did report noises etc and ignored by those in charge!

If she was drugged then could explain a lot in motive and lack of defensive wounds,blond hair in her hand would be one of the gang of murderers for sure.

Im pretty sure that it is well known exactly what happened on that fatefull night by many but money has changed hands(allegedly) then we can kiss goodbye to it ever being revealed...all we can hope for is burma guys get let off and the scum who did the crime suffer financially with people not going to the Island,sorry for all the good guys there trying to earn a living.Many people that live on the island probably would like to help the truth come out but who can they tell..the police? the army? the press...could be a deathwish!

I did read somewhere (can't find link now) that two French girls heard something but dismissed it as drunks larking around. I've not seen this reported since though.

Chris Ware was David's room-mate who could account for his movements until the early hours of the morning on 15th September when David left the room allegedly to buy cigarettes. This was reported in the British press a while ago. Little has been reported on the whereabouts of the other Ware brother, Jimmy, though, and it is not known in which room he was staying. Hannah was travelling with three other girls and shared a room with one of them.

I find it impossible to believe the murders took place inside the victims' rooms but they may have happened elsewhere on the property of course. I do believe that eventual crime scene was "staged" in some way to make it look like David and Hannah were having a romantic liaison on the beach. IMHO her body was deliberately left in a grotesque "pose" and the hoe was used in-situ as a final act of "revenge", or to cover something up.

I guess they must have stolen his smokes too?

We have never heard anything about cigarette residue or remains with Davids DNA?

I don't know about "staged", unless they were aboard a boat?

I have never been to Koh Tao, and don't know the spot of the crime scene,

can a pleasure boat, big enough to party on, pull up to that spot?

are people known to party on private boats there?

I would think island life, would know all this, as he apparently knew Sean McAnna, well enough to know about petty crimes, but not drug involvement?

think maybe the UK detectives have someone new to talk to when they return?

[spidermike007]

Of course it does not match. If he had raped her, he never would have submitted to the test. What this may mean is that he is innocent of rape. But, how about murder in the first degree? Pre-meditated murder? Life in prison, or the death penalty is what he would get in most countries, if found guilty. That is if he was on trial to begin with. Sometimes the guilty walk. Especially if your family is above the law.

quote "Especially if your family is above the law."

And that is the crux of the matter. While no TVF has offered conclusive proof as to the identity of the Koh Tao serial killers, proof that some families are totally above the law has been shown clearly and proudly.

The threat to kill by hanging of a Scottish tourist, caught on CCTV, usually carries a 5 year prison term. Not this time!

The employment of illegal migrant workers usually results in punishment for the employer. Not this time!

The police found narcotics in the entertainment establishment owned by a certain family. Drugs are usually illegal. Not this time!

Is it a stretch to assume that this "above the law" family could murder with impunity?

"Nomsod the terrible" is guilty as the day is long. People know that worldwide. If any consolation can be taken from this, it is that the family will have a black name in perpetuity. They will never again be able to enjoy the facade of respectability. That is a beautiful thing.

[IslandLover]

SteveFong, on 14 Nov 2014 - 00:12, said:

IslandLover, on 13 Nov 2014 - 17:31, said:

I did read somewhere (can't find link now) that two French girls heard something but dismissed it as drunks larking around. I've not seen this reported since though.

Chris Ware was David's room-mate who could account for his movements until the early hours of the morning on 15th September when David left the room allegedly to buy cigarettes. This was reported in the British press a while ago. Little has been reported on the whereabouts of the other Ware brother, Jimmy, though, and it is not known in which room he was staying. Hannah was travelling with three other girls and shared a room with one of them.

I find it impossible to believe the murders took place inside the victims' rooms but they may have happened elsewhere on the property of course. I do believe that eventual crime scene was "staged" in some way to make it look like David and Hannah were having a romantic liaison on the beach. IMHO her body was deliberately left in a grotesque "pose" and the hoe was used in-situ as a final act of "revenge", or to cover something up.

I guess they must have stolen his smokes too?

We have never heard anything about cigarette residue or remains with Davids DNA?

I don't know about "staged", unless they were aboard a boat?

I have never been to Koh Tao, and don't know the spot of the crime scene,

can a pleasure boat, big enough to party on, pull up to that spot?

are people known to party on private boats there?

I would think island life, would know all this, as he apparently knew Sean McAnna, well enough to know about petty crimes, but not drug involvement?

think maybe the UK detectives have someone new to talk to when they return?

I don't know about "staged", unless they were aboard a boat?

I really don't know what you are getting at here. Who said a boat was involved?.

One meaning of the word "staged" is "deliberately arranged for effect", which applies to this particular crime scene IMHO. Does the word "staged" mean something different to you?.

[WallyCleaver]

The Island Headman said his son (2nd suspect) hurried off to Bangkok for school.

Days later, the Headman said his son was not on the island but was in Bangkok the entire time.

Why change stories?

Guilty.

[thailandchilli]

The Island Headman said his son (2nd suspect) hurried off to Bangkok for school.

Days later, the Headman said his son was not on the island but was in Bangkok the entire time.

Why change stories?

Guilty.

I remember reading that somewhere too but can't find the link

[WallyCleaver]

The Island Headman said his son (2nd suspect) hurried off to Bangkok for school.

Days later, the Headman said his son was not on the island but was in Bangkok the entire time.

Why change stories?

Guilty.

I remember reading that somewhere too but can't find the link

Headmans brother arrested, caught on CCTV. Son on the run.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/police-release-suspects-in-murder-of-two-brits-in-koh-tao.html

[boomerangutang]

I've never been to Ko Tao, though have been several times to Samui and Pagnan. Oddly, I was planning to go to Ko Tao just days before the crime happened, but got sidelined with something. My earlier impression of the place was colored by a short video I had on CD which showcased 4 American backpackers who went there to do bouldering. The were so serious about climbing, they were sponsored by climbing gear companies, and all 4 had big orange ''crash pads' (like mattresses) strapped to their backpacks. It was an enjoyable video and showed 4 cheerful farang having a fine time at a beautiful tropical setting.

Fastforward to today: The reputation of the island is in the wastecan. Thai investigators are ill-trained, inept, can't think outside the box, and probably paid to shield the headman's people. One net result is: crass murderers and gang rapists are roaming free there, going to bars to party, charm-talking pretty young farang chicks, probably slipping mickeys in to their drinks. If any backpackers ask me if it's ok to go the island, I'll give you one guess what my answer will be.

Well boomerang not shure where u live but shure nobody never murdered there? Luckily all people aint as daft as you are. Nobody is not interested quessing your answears . Jesus wept...

I reside in Chiang Rai. Google it to see whether any tourists have been murdered there. I doubt you'll find any. I'm putting forth likely scenarios, which is more than Thai officials are doing. They're putting forth a scenario, yes, but it's as likely as painting a scenario that there's no trash in Bangkok. Thai crime investigators are to crime scenes what salamanders are to ice skating rinks.

[thailandchilli]

The Island Headman said his son (2nd suspect) hurried off to Bangkok for school.

Days later, the Headman said his son was not on the island but was in Bangkok the entire time.

Why change stories?

Guilty.

I remember reading that somewhere too but can't find the link

Headmans brother arrested, caught on CCTV. Son on the run.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/police-release-suspects-in-murder-of-two-brits-in-koh-tao.html

Thanks, I mean the actual interview with the headman where he stated his son left for Bangkok and then back tracked by saying he was there all the time

[mitsubishi]

Ok, as I mentioned earlier I just made some communications with my contact on the island of Koh Tao.

1. Basically in his words the police DID NOT seal the island off following the murder! Not the following morning that it took place anyway. Approx. 800 people or so left the island on ferry's possibly more if you count the mid-day and after noon ferries. <So if the killer (s) were among them then it's game over for catching them.>

2. He was being DEFENSIVE of the other business owners / island families etc being involved saying it was likely some psycho did it and probably fled the following day on the morning ferries.

3. The Boycott Koh Tao campaign has resulted in a FIFTY % drop in business revenue ACROSS THE ISLAND. At my own contacts location they are reporting almost nil income!

4. The Boycott campaign is being speaheaded by a rival Phuket tour operator.

5. They are hoping this whole thing won't affect the Xmas season (when trade normally booms on KT). <I do not think it will be booming personally.>

[Dogmatix]

Other posters have pointed out that none of the hospitals that participated in the media show are accredited for criminal DNA testing, except the Police General Hospital's Institute of Forensic Medicine which many regard with suspicion for obvious reasons. But anyway these procedures were done privately by the hospitals on behalf of their client, the headman, with the police chief merely acting as MC at a private event. The media was not shown details of exactly what tests the hospitals were contracted to do or on what basis DNA found on the victim was provided to them, if at all. If the hospitals other than PGH are only certified for paternity DNA testing, perhaps that was all they were paid to do and all they are willing to do. It was odd that the results of the DNA testing revealed the staggering news that they were father and son but, there again, perhaps there was a good reason for that.

The media didn't question any of this and all the doctors and nurses from the different hospitals made for good pantomime, even if most are only capable of doing paternity testing.