US calls planned Thai poll delay to 2016 'unwise'

[webfact]

US calls planned Thai poll delay to 2016 'unwise'
Reuters
BANGKOK/WASHINGTON

BANGKOK: -- A general election to return Thailand to democracy will be held in February 2016 at the earliest, a deputy prime minister said after talks with a U.S. diplomat on Tuesday, a delay Washington later called "unwise and unjustified."

The military government, established after a May 22 coup, said last month an election planned for late 2015 would be delayed until 2016, giving more time for reforms which the military says should bring stability after a decade of factional rivalry.

On Tuesday, Deputy Prime Minister Wisanu Krue-ngam clarified the target date after talks with US Charge d’Affaires W Patrick Murphy.

"I told the US charge d’affaires today elections will take place at the earliest in February 2016," Wisanu told reporters.

"But if we have to have a referendum, polls could be delayed by a further three months," he said, referring to a possible plebiscite on a new constitution.

The United States, a long-time ally of Thailand, expressed dismay at the coup and froze $4.7 million of security-related assistance, cancelled high-level engagements, some military exercises and training programs for the military and police.

A spokesperson for the US State Department said Washington believed Thais should be allowed to choose a democratically elected government "as soon as possible."

"We ... believe a delay until 2016 would be unwise and unjustified," the spokesperson added.

The May coup followed months of protests against a populist elected government.

A junta-appointed National Reform Council last week proposed stripping parliament of the power to appoint a prime minister and cabinet.

On Tuesday, a committee appointed to draft a new constitution rejected that recommendation.

A senior Western diplomat said he was not optimistic about the possibility of an election in 2016, fearing Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, the army chef who launched the coup, could come up with a justification to delay.

"It is not inconceivable that Prayut will stay in power for two to three years," said the diplomat, who declined to be identified.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/US-calls-planned-Thai-poll-delay-to-2016-unwise-30250559.html


-- The Nation 2014-12-24

[peptidebomber]

The election will be pointless anyway, the junta will rig it so that the control of any parliament will be held by appointed members. The token elected officials will have no power whatsoever.

[drand11]

Its an opinion. I suppose if you like Coups & Juntas...then you have a different opinion.

[NeverSure]

The beauty of the USA is I can say anything about the government I want to say without fear of reprisal. I have freedom of speech.

On this forum I can't say what I want to say about who I want to say it.

So the topic is open to USA bashing without the opportunity to explain WHY.

So let's bash the USA and ignore what's happening in Thailand.

[Somtamnication]

Please, everybody. When the USA speaks, please stand up!

[Thai at Heart]

It will get pushed further.

Nothing can change for a while. I mean they have only just completed a little of the purge.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Nickymaster]

Interfering with internal issues of other countries is also unwise but the US keeps doing that.

[Nickymaster]

The beauty of the USA is I can say anything about the government I want to say without fear of reprisal. I have freedom of speech.

On this forum I can't say what I want to say about who I want to say it.

So the topic is open to USA bashing without the opportunity to explain WHY.

So let's bash the USA and ignore what's happening in Thailand.

The the US it is for you then.

[Squeegee]

Seems like the US is ut of touch with how much of a mess this country's in. Right now the only option is a fake democracy at some point down the line. A real democracy would need enough capable and relatively decent people to hold responsibilities and sadly it seems those people haven't even been born yet.

[h90]

The election will be pointless anyway, the junta will rig it so that the control of any parliament will be held by appointed members. The token elected officials will have no power whatsoever.

After the coup before did the junta rig it?

No because Samak came into power.

This time it will be the same. They cut deals with everyone for reconciliation and in a few years there will be the same mess as before....

[Crazy chef 1]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

... all their presidents???

[Caveat Emptor]

We don't care what you say USA, China's our new best friend.

[eggers]

As usual, US sticks it's nose in other countries affairs ; ought clean up it's own act at home....plenty to do there!!

[thesetat2013]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

They don't recommend , the say its unwise , and they are 100% right about that.

The USA is 100% wrong.

In what way? Thais are running away from democracy and into the arms of China. The US has long had a defense treaty with Thailand guaranteeing Thailand protection against foreign enemies.

It can't have been a year, can it, since the USA sailed two Nimitz-class aircraft carrier groups through Asia in a show of force when China was threatening Islands belonging to other countries, blocking commercial air routes, and violating fishing rights of smaller countries in the South China Sea?

Also,

"LAEM CHABANG, Thailand (NNS) -- Aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), accompanied by guided-missile cruiser Cape St. George (CG 71), departed Laem Chabang, Thailand, Jan. 10, (2012) following a four-day port visit.

While in Thailand, Sailors from the two ships visited with the people of Thailand, experienced the local culture and participated in a series of community service projects (COMSERVs) to further strengthen the relationship between the two countries. " LINK

NOW tell me what the US is to do if China starts bullying again but Thailand has run into its arms? Should the US void the treaty and let China have at it?

The US is a long time ally of Thailand and the second largest buyer of Thai exports after Japan. Japan is an ally of the USA.

It will be shown that Thailand is screwing the pooch.

I hope that if a certain person finds himself chomped in the jaws of China that the USA sits back and lets it happen. China is vastly underestimated as a crocodile.

Hehe well perhaps thais saw that great show of US strength was just a show only. Not real and apparently did nothing to stop China from doing and taking what they wanted. Thai has a long history of taking no permenant action to taking sides. They go with who is winning.

[klauskunkel]

On the other hand, there isn't anybody qualified to govern Thailand,...except us TV members.

[chotthee]

We don't care what you say USA, China's our new best friend.

Since when should Thai listen to the less smart Farang.

Yellow people are always smarter.

Don'r believe me, just check the average SAT/GMAT/GCE/IB/TOEFL/IETLS score etc. Yellow beat white hand down, every year.

[harryfrompattaya]

We don't care what you say USA, China's our new best friend.

How true until they need a place to live or place for medical treatment

[Nickymaster]

This narrative from a person that refuses to speak on record is typical of a country that that uses the word "democracy" to push their own agenda whether what they are pushing is democratic or not. If the US supported democracy they would not have been involved in over 35 seizers of power since the 1940's. If they supported democracy they would not have achieved the following;

1. Iran. 1953. Mohammad Pahlavi takes power in a coup planned and supported by the USA and UK secret services (Operation Ajax). He topples the flourishing and popular democracy of Mohammed Mossadeq.

2. Ecuador. 1963. The CIA back a military coup that overthrows President Arosemana, because of his independent policies. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

3. El Salvador. 1963. Jose Duarte wins the election, but is immediately removed and exiled by the USA backed military. Just 14 families run most of the country's businesses, mainly coffee growing.

4. South Korea. 1979. General Chun Doo-Hwan takes power in a coup. His regime is armed and supported by the USA. One year later, the general orders the killing of hundreds of civilians in Kwangju.

5. Chad. 1981. In 1981. The CIA set up, financed and trained a Chadian military force in Sudan. Led by Hissen Habré, this force overthrows the government of Chad, ruling for 8 years with American support. Habré's regime would kill tens of thousands of people and torture over 200,000. Many dissidents would simply disappear. In 2000, Habré would be tried for his crimes in Senegal.

I have about 30 more examples too.

America doesn't need me to bash them. History speaks on my behalf.

So because the US has sinned, that makes it okay to deny Thai citizens the right to elect their own government? Is this your argument? The US has sinned and as we saw with the release of the report on Torture, continue to do so. However, we also have the right to elect our own government and the freedom to criticize our government without fear of imprisonment. Much of the information regarding past sins of the US are public knowledge because we have a free press and an elected government. The report on torture came from our own government. Imagine that in most other countries of the world.

Your government tortures people? Then they better clean up there own mess first.

[djjamie]

This narrative from a person that refuses to speak on record is typical of a country that that uses the word "democracy" to push their own agenda whether what they are pushing is democratic or not. If the US supported democracy they would not have been involved in over 35 seizers of power since the 1940's. If they supported democracy they would not have achieved the following;

1. Iran. 1953. Mohammad Pahlavi takes power in a coup planned and supported by the USA and UK secret services (Operation Ajax). He topples the flourishing and popular democracy of Mohammed Mossadeq.

2. Ecuador. 1963. The CIA back a military coup that overthrows President Arosemana, because of his independent policies. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

3. El Salvador. 1963. Jose Duarte wins the election, but is immediately removed and exiled by the USA backed military. Just 14 families run most of the country's businesses, mainly coffee growing.

4. South Korea. 1979. General Chun Doo-Hwan takes power in a coup. His regime is armed and supported by the USA. One year later, the general orders the killing of hundreds of civilians in Kwangju.

5. Chad. 1981. In 1981. The CIA set up, financed and trained a Chadian military force in Sudan. Led by Hissen Habré, this force overthrows the government of Chad, ruling for 8 years with American support. Habré's regime would kill tens of thousands of people and torture over 200,000. Many dissidents would simply disappear. In 2000, Habré would be tried for his crimes in Senegal.

I have about 30 more examples too.

America doesn't need me to bash them. History speaks on my behalf.

So because the US has sinned, that makes it okay to deny Thai citizens the right to elect their own government? Is this your argument? The US has sinned and as we saw with the release of the report on Torture, continue to do so. However, we also have the right to elect our own government and the freedom to criticize our government without fear of imprisonment. Much of the information regarding past sins of the US are public knowledge because we have a free press and an elected government. The report on torture came from our own government. Imagine that in most other countries of the world.

This article is about America's (albeit anonymous) stance on Thailand elections. All I have highlighted is that the USA do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable.

It is not this love for democracy (remember elections is only one principle of democracy) that some on here purport to respect as if they did they would not support the PTP. It is a measured groomed narrative that through propaganda allows one to have this warped ideal that the West is right so Thailand's coup is bad. It is those same people that believed the PTP propaganda too.

America's condemnation of the Thai coup, but support of violent uprisings against an elected government in the Ukraine exemplifies that special interests over principles, define when "democracy" must be respected, and when it can be ignored. Of course Russia called the Ukraine uprising a coup though. Why? Special interests.

That is all I was highlighting.

As for MY stance on elections, (not Americas stance) I completely agree with you. The Junta are holding off on that one principle of democracy that you stated so the other principles can be restored.

Remember elections should be where democracy begins, not ceases.

Merry xmas and a safe new year to you my friend.

Edited December 24, 2014 by djjamie

[mrjohndub]

According go my wife and several friends, Thai social media and several news outlets are characterizing/reporting the comments as the US calling Thailand and Thais 'stupid' and a fast-growing number of people are livid.

On another point, how many Thais are actually aware of the security arrangements between Thailand and the US? None in my family, and nearly all are government employees.

[ravip]

The U.S is the perfect country in this Universe.

That is why they are the Global Policeman.

Everyone should listen and obey their commands.

(Strange how the US pokes its finger into all the AH's)

[ravip]

The beauty of the USA is I can say anything about the government I want to say without fear of reprisal. I have freedom of speech.

On this forum I can't say what I want to say about who I want to say it.

So the topic is open to USA bashing without the opportunity to explain WHY.

So let's bash the USA and ignore what's happening in Thailand.

Why do you feel obliged to bash Thailand?

Just go to the US and live the perfect life.

Edit

Just let the 3rd world live its 'pathetic life'

Why come here and bother your mind?

Edited December 24, 2014 by ravip

[jeffreybangkok]

I think the USA isn't in the position to give recommendations......Instead they should consider to bring their own war criminals to court.

I CANT BREATHE. Land of freedom.

So simple... Can't breathe and not happy just leave.... Why torture your self here.

[DoctorG]

Lots of cheap anti-USA shots on here.

[mrjohndub]

The Junta are holding off on that one principle of democracy that you stated so the other principles can be restored.

As an American, I won't deny that the US is often hypocritical in its foreign relations and has intervened disastrously and even maliciously in other countries' affairs. However, those facts do not change two critically important things to understand about Thailand's situation: ( a ) Thailand has never had democracy, and therefore there's nothing to restore. Democracy is still on Thailand's frontier; and ( b ) The junta, far from benevolent, are merely holding power until a momentous occasion occurs. They have no intentions of guiding the country toward democratic principles. People who believe otherwise are deluded or ignorant.

Edited December 24, 2014 by mrjohndub

[MikeOboe57]

Of course the USA are right.

Just look at the roaring success story of US sponsored "early" "democratic elections" in Afghanistan ("the young democracy") or Iraq, where the Government abused its mandate to terrorize the minority, turn the police into death squads and destabilize the country to such an extent, that IS just had to walk over and occupy half of it.

And let's not forget Libya, where the elected Government is in hiding and a rogue general is trying to establish law and order in the eastern part, while heavily armed murderous militias roam the rest of the country fighting each other forcing all international airports to close down.

[IMA_FARANG]

The election will be pointless anyway, the junta will rig it so that the control of any parliament will be held by appointed members. The token elected officials will have no power whatsoever.

-----------------

As a U.S. citizen, I can assure you the U.S. government has no real interest in what government the Thais have.

All they are really interested in is that the Thai government be "stable", which means the U.S. investors can assure that their plans to "invest" (i.e.steal money from) Thailand is not put off track by "political instability" in Thailand.

That is, and always will be, the main concern of the U.S. government ..... making money for the business leaders who put up the money to get whatever political party is elected in the U.S. a good return on their monetary investment in getting the winning party elected.

And that includes their investment In Thailand.

Today, in the U.S.as other countries, "democracy" is really about a profit on the big multi-national "investments" rate of return on their "investments".

And nothing else.

[Squeegee]

We don't care what you say USA, China's our new best friend.

Since when should Thai listen to the less smart Farang.

Yellow people are always smarter.

Don'r believe me, just check the average SAT/GMAT/GCE/IB/TOEFL/IETLS score etc. Yellow beat white hand down, every year.

Troll with nothing intelligent to say.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Squeegee

[smutcakes]

Seems like the US is ut of touch with how much of a mess this country's in. Right now the only option is a fake democracy at some point down the line. A real democracy would need enough capable and relatively decent people to hold responsibilities and sadly it seems those people haven't even been born yet.

I am no fan of US foreign policy or their meddling in other countries affairs, but to suggest they would be out of touch with the situation is the country is complete rubbish.

I am 100% positive they have far more inside knowledge than you, i or anyone else on this forum into the inner workings of what is going on at the moment. I am sure people are in regular dialogue to all manner of high up people, and have been for decades.

They have regular one on ones with all types of military, political and business personnel, from across political divides.

[Squeegee]

Seems like the US is ut of touch with how much of a mess this country's in. Right now the only option is a fake democracy at some point down the line. A real democracy would need enough capable and relatively decent people to hold responsibilities and sadly it seems those people haven't even been born yet.

I am no fan of US foreign policy or their meddling in other countries affairs, but to suggest they would be out of touch with the situation is the country is complete rubbish.

I am 100% positive they have far more inside knowledge than you, i or anyone else on this forum into the inner workings of what is going on at the moment. I am sure people are in regular dialogue to all manner of high up people, and have been for decades.

They have regular one on ones with all types of military, political and business personnel, from across political divides.

Of course they're watching and trying to remain communicative, I wouldn't deny that, but you're missing my point: essentially I am saying their statement is pointless, and it's in that that they're out of touch, as if their having said anything like in the OP is going to do anything other than alienate the Thais further. Right now Thailand has shifted towards China. The USA saying that's unwise is going to get the USA nowhere.