12 dead in attack on Paris newspaper; France goes on alert

[Scully]

When the Muslim press criticise Charlie Hebdo's right to freedom of speach you know there's a deep ingrained problem. Instead of just strongly condemning these acts some Muslim publications seemed to justify it.

http://www.rferl.org/content/muslim-press-reacts-charlie-hebdo-attack/26783014.html

Hebdo's cartoons didn't just target Islam, his satire covered Jews, Catholics, Christians etc and he was only mocking the fanatics.

Its beyond me why so many brainwashed and often intellectual people take these medieval beliefs so seriously.

[Tep]

I do not like that this event is hijacked by the anti-immigrant bigots and they glory in the event to push their agenda. All the 'told you so', all the lists of past atrocities. They do not honour the memories of those slain artists.

You mentioned Hitler first so in this case, you lose.

Supporting a ban on Islam immigration is not anti immigrant or bigotry. It is common sense in the light of what is happening. People like you stand in the way of meaningful reforms.

Standing in the way of meaningful reform, by your definition, then I am happy to oblige.

You offer a rhetorical tautology in support of your position. By definition it is meaningless.

Again, happy and proud to be able to stand in the way. I have many fellow travellers. Some of them died in Paris. You may have read about this.

[Jingthing]

Of course far right wing true haters of diversity in all its forms will be strengthened by this news.

But, how to process events like this can be especially challenging to the liberal and tolerant. Is intolerance of intolerance intolerance?

This is a question not only for Europe.

There is something Islamic in these terror events. Does it help to deny that obvious truth?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/01/europe_s_confused_debate_about_islam_and_terrorism_europeans_are_both_too.html

Those who advocate for a more diverse Europe tend to have a lot of fun pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of liberal Islamophobia. But, all too often, these tolerant souls are guilty of an equally dangerous hypocrisy of their own. They rightly lament that there’s a lot of prejudice against Muslims, but they wrongly infer that we should refrain from criticizing any manifestation of Islam—and consequently deny that there is anything Islamic about the kind of terrorism that has just left a Paris magazine’s offices riddled with bullets.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[benalibina]

When the Muslim press criticise Charlie Hebdo's right to freedom of speach you know there's a deep ingrained problem. Instead of just strongly condemning these acts some Muslim publications seemed to justify it.

http://www.rferl.org/content/muslim-press-reacts-charlie-hebdo-attack/26783014.html

Hebdo's cartoons didn't just target Islam, his satire covered Jews, Catholics, Christians etc and he was only mocking the fanatics.

Its beyond me why so many brainwashed and often intellectual people take these medieval beliefs so seriously.

Brainwashing, manipulation and indoctrination......the root of ALL evil.....

[Stargeezr]

This group of extremists, or terrorists, or even nut jobs ,performed a barbaric crime, a heinous act, and a cruel act,

upon those that they killed. The police man, a Muslim fellow, doing his job, and the journalists, who were just

people who were also doing their jobs, even if they may have offended someone, it was not the right for these

attackers to murder them all in cold blood.

I do hope these criminals will all be caught and face the most extreme, and maximum sentences

for their crimes.

I am glad this event did not happen in Canada, as we no longer have the death penalty for any

crime committed in our country, we have become too civilized, and the worst criminals just

get 25 years or so, as their life sentences.

In my opinion, the death penalty should exist for this type of crime, as well as for those who,

murder in the first degree, or for multiple murders, but unless Canada changes the present

laws, we citizens get to pay the cost of housing prisoners in our jail system.

This is another sad day for all!

[Morch]

The irony of being on an Asian visa forum and listening to bigots going on about immigration - oh how I lol'd

Most of the posters residing in the region do not normally demand local governments to change local cultures in order to accommodate their lifestyle and religious beliefs. They do not receive handouts from local governments. Do not run on violent rampages. If anything one of the most generic responses on TVF is "if you don't like it here, leave".

[ourmanflint]

Just to make this clear for all of you who are already mixing Islam with Islamist :

The guys who died in France would have spit on your face for such comments.

The guys who died hated the kind of people who mixed a minority of a group to make the whole group look bad whatever the group is.

Yes they hated religion, yes they hated the islamists, as much as they hated the israelian settlers, as much as they hated the catholic church and its wealth and secrets about children abuses by their priest.

Charb, Cabu, Wolinski, Tignous and all the staff at the Charlie Hebdo were mostly ...be ready guys.... communists or far left winged and nothing, not even such carnage would have changed their way of living.

Oh and another thing, just remember YOU are the f..ing foreigners here, and i can read a lot from you speaking about how the thais try daily to con farangs, to kill them or rob them, and still you re here.... just think of what may happen if one day two lunatics farang start to kill 12 people in Bangkok, how would you like them to react? understand the difference or just kick all of us from thailand?

What a crock! Please tell me any situation in which a couple of farangs would kill a bunch of thais in cold blood for being disrespectful to something they believed in?

[benalibina]

The irony of being on an Asian visa forum and listening to bigots going on about immigration - oh how I lol'd

Most of the posters residing in the region do not normally demand local governments to change local cultures in order to accommodate their lifestyle and religious beliefs. They do not receive handouts from local governments. Do not run on violent rampages. If anything one of the most generic responses on TVF is "if you don't like it here, leave".

Correct, but one can wonder why some, who seem to be strong advocates of "freedom of speech ", reside here.

[Tep]

The irony of being on an Asian visa forum and listening to bigots going on about immigration - oh how I lol'd

Most of the posters residing in the region do not normally demand local governments to change local cultures in order to accommodate their lifestyle and religious beliefs. They do not receive handouts from local governments. Do not run on violent rampages. If anything one of the most generic responses on TVF is "if you don't like it here, leave".

When I worked in Afghanistan, I stayed in the compound of my employer which had diplomatic status and could run a bar. The Karzai government implemented a ban on alcohol sales except for registered diplomatic missions and they could only buy from a select few stores licensed to distribute alcohol. I happily drank a few beers with my my work colleagues at the end of the day before heading off to one of the few foreign run restaurants for steak or pizza together with more beer or wine.

I am not talking about immigrants here clearly and you may think it a stretch but the foreign workers at that time did not 'respect' local laws. Clearly there was no way to change those laws but we used our 'special' status to avoid these laws being applied to us. One of those special restaurants, a newly opened Russian place, was raided by the morality police led by a Karzai Advisor dressed Iranian style, suit no tie. They left us alone but hassled the Afghan patrons.

My anecdote has no equivalency with the notion of Islamic Law being imposed on western cultures (if that is indeed the case) but immigrants, temporary residents and workers in foreign lands may hold to their customs and traditions and lifestyles in contradiction to local customs or laws. I do think the original observation to which you responded has some merit.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Tep

[Tep]

Of course far right wing true haters of diversity in all its forms will be strengthened by this news.

But, how to process events like this can be especially challenging to the liberal and tolerant. Is intolerance of intolerance intolerance?

This is a question not only for Europe.

There is something Islamic in these terror events. Does it help to deny that obvious truth?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/01/europe_s_confused_debate_about_islam_and_terrorism_europeans_are_both_too.html

Those who advocate for a more diverse Europe tend to have a lot of fun pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of liberal Islamophobia. But, all too often, these tolerant souls are guilty of an equally dangerous hypocrisy of their own. They rightly lament that there’s a lot of prejudice against Muslims, but they wrongly infer that we should refrain from criticizing any manifestation of Islam—and consequently deny that there is anything Islamic about the kind of terrorism that has just left a Paris magazine’s offices riddled with bullets.

You identify an important issue for liberals. I do think that some people have difficulty in separating genuine commentary or criticism from stereotyping. I am a huge fan of Bill Maher and I understand what he says about the Muslim thing but I wonder if he too is stereotyping. Or if not stereotyping, then I am not able to distinguish genuine commentary from bigotry. I look forward to his return on Friday evening US time as he will surely have more to say and I want to hear it and think about it.

There is a difference between statements like 'Islam cannot exist in or is incompatible with a Democracy' (which I have had thrown at me) and 'I do not support the ban on women drivers in Saudi Arabia'. Apart from the social, political and cultural contexts, I think the first is clearly an over generalisation and easily disproved (i.e. Indonesia etc) and to me represents bigotry. The 2nd statement is more specific and can be dissected and argued.

The other concern is general ignorance, including mine. I have not read the texts. I don't know what Sharia Law says. I think many people do not. Some people claim they do but clearly get the information from ideologically driven sources that presents that information accordingly. I have no access to information channels that convey the latest in Islamic thought, the latest Fatwas or interpretation of scripture. I am told by non Muslims that such interpretation is forbidden anyway. In fact almost all my information does from non Muslims. I would prefer to hear comments from a Muslim woman on the face covering issue than on some old white Christian male.

Many, most if not all these terror events have some connection to Islam. I wonder about the meaning of such connections. I wonder about the causation of the events and the role of other, political mainly but also possibly social and economic, issues. How to deal with this? Information. Respect. Engagement. The alternatives are to horrible to contemplate.

[Friendly Stranger]

Netenyahu is no saint but I remember when Obama and Sarkozy mocked him. I guess not anymore...

[Rooo]

Off topic, trollish etc... posts & replies quoting them removed.

[Stargeezr]

I have been reading the many comments to this new article, some of the comments are

pretty good, and informative, some are a bit on the ignorant side, some are from people who

do not have much religion in their thoughts, or none at all, some are from people

who are very religious, and that is what makes these comments go in all sorts

of directions! In the world there are people who may be, fascists, and have their style of thinking,

leaning toward Fascism

other people who sound ,like they are fanatics, or nut jobs, or are close to being extremists of some

sort, and those ones scare me. The extremist thinkers, whether they are Christian, Muslim,

Islamists, or from other backgrounds, are a lot more dangerous, as they are not very

flexible in their thinking, and likely not very forgiving either.

Have any one of you thought of where the following people live in the world.

Taliban, Al Qaeda , ISIL, Boko Haram, and other extremist or terrorists.

Sadly the answer can be, they live everywhere, except maybe in parts of Russia or China.

These people can hold many countries passports and claim to be that country's

citizen, when ever they are not actively taking part in fighting their dirty, disgraceful

style of lives.

I have heard of Canadians, Americans, British and other Great Britain, and European

people showing up in these groups.

The people on these passports may be immigrants to those other countries, or some of them may have

even been born in the other countries. That makes it very hard to track some of them, and makes it so difficult

for all the countries in the world, as in what do they do when these supposed citizens, return to their

countries.

These terrorists and extremist should be considered as people without countries, and be driven from

which ever country that holds their passports.

I wonder if that is starting to happen, or not.

Just my own thoughts and opinions on this subject.

I think it is time for all countries, to end their support of any of these terrorist and extremist groups,

and be rid of all of them.

Unfortunately there are many countries, that are tribal in nature, and who have

these groups living in their country without fear. These countries should be listed

publically and banned from being in any part of the Global powers of the world.

And that will never happen.

[neverdie]

The irony of being on an Asian visa forum and listening to bigots going on about immigration - oh how I lol'd

Most of the posters residing in the region do not normally demand local governments to change local cultures in order to accommodate their lifestyle and religious beliefs. They do not receive handouts from local governments. Do not run on violent rampages. If anything one of the most generic responses on TVF is "if you don't like it here, leave".

Correct, but one can wonder why some, who seem to be strong advocates of "freedom of speech ", reside here.

There's nothing wrong with free speech in LOS as long as it tows the company line

[manarak]

Of course far right wing true haters of diversity in all its forms will be strengthened by this news.

But, how to process events like this can be especially challenging to the liberal and tolerant. Is intolerance of intolerance intolerance?

This is a question not only for Europe.

There is something Islamic in these terror events. Does it help to deny that obvious truth?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/01/europe_s_confused_debate_about_islam_and_terrorism_europeans_are_both_too.html

Those who advocate for a more diverse Europe tend to have a lot of fun pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of liberal Islamophobia. But, all too often, these tolerant souls are guilty of an equally dangerous hypocrisy of their own. They rightly lament that there’s a lot of prejudice against Muslims, but they wrongly infer that we should refrain from criticizing any manifestation of Islam—and consequently deny that there is anything Islamic about the kind of terrorism that has just left a Paris magazine’s offices riddled with bullets.

You identify an important issue for liberals. I do think that some people have difficulty in separating genuine commentary or criticism from stereotyping. I am a huge fan of Bill Maher and I understand what he says about the Muslim thing but I wonder if he too is stereotyping. Or if not stereotyping, then I am not able to distinguish genuine commentary from bigotry. I look forward to his return on Friday evening US time as he will surely have more to say and I want to hear it and think about it.

There is a difference between statements like 'Islam cannot exist in or is incompatible with a Democracy' (which I have had thrown at me) and 'I do not support the ban on women drivers in Saudi Arabia'. Apart from the social, political and cultural contexts, I think the first is clearly an over generalisation and easily disproved (i.e. Indonesia etc) and to me represents bigotry. The 2nd statement is more specific and can be dissected and argued.

The other concern is general ignorance, including mine. I have not read the texts. I don't know what Sharia Law says. I think many people do not. Some people claim they do but clearly get the information from ideologically driven sources that presents that information accordingly. I have no access to information channels that convey the latest in Islamic thought, the latest Fatwas or interpretation of scripture. I am told by non Muslims that such interpretation is forbidden anyway. In fact almost all my information does from non Muslims. I would prefer to hear comments from a Muslim woman on the face covering issue than on some old white Christian male.

Many, most if not all these terror events have some connection to Islam. I wonder about the meaning of such connections. I wonder about the causation of the events and the role of other, political mainly but also possibly social and economic, issues. How to deal with this? Information. Respect. Engagement. The alternatives are to horrible to contemplate.

an interesting article on the subject:

http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/

and about Indonesia, it seems it is becoming increasingly intolerant:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/opinion/no-model-for-muslim-democracy.html

[Richard W]

In the specific context of the UK,

I would put a very simple statement on anyones' ILR request, "have you ever been part of, associated with, or suported any organisation which can be deemed to be a terrorist or extremist organisation under the description of the British government."

Simple lie and automatic deportation.

It's already there. It's Q7.7 in SET(O) and Q9.7 in SET(M) - "Have you or any dependants who are applying with you ever been a member of, or given support to, an organisation which has been concerned in terrorism?"

Unfortunately, 'terrorism' is so widely defined that I would have to give serious consideration to answering 'yes' - I supported sanctions against Saddam Hussein after our first war against him, and they were intended to encourage his being overthrown.

[Thai at Heart]

In the specific context of the UK,

I would put a very simple statement on anyones' ILR request, "have you ever been part of, associated with, or suported any organisation which can be deemed to be a terrorist or extremist organisation under the description of the British government."

Simple lie and automatic deportation.

It's already there. It's Q7.7 in SET(O) and Q9.7 in SET(M) - "Have you or any dependants who are applying with you ever been a member of, or given support to, an organisation which has been concerned in terrorism?"

Unfortunately, 'terrorism' is so widely defined that I would have to give serious consideration to answering 'yes' - I supported sanctions against Saddam Hussein after our first war against him, and they were intended to encourage his being overthrown.

Well breaking that, as an immigrant should be grounds for automatic deportation.

Being a citizen doesn't confer you the freedom to be a terrorist and having obtained the citizenship through deceit should be punished absolutely.

My hometown just had a few radicals caught recently all from a desperately polarised Muslim part of town. They all know who are the imams running the indoctrination courses.

On father shopped them but only after half a dozen of them had tried to get to Syria.

Sorry , but they act safe in the knowledge that their loved ones will be protected under British law. Sorry but I think they should instantly deport any wives and children to Syria to join dad.

It might give him a little pause for thought .

[micmichd]

@micmichd # 355

Capitalism is the freedom to sacrifice everything in the name of money.

Without "Arabic numbers" (Indian, in fact) you would not be able even to count your tea money. Left alone architecture, poetry etc.

You are really eaten up with socialism aren't you? And bringing out that old numbers canard ... that's the best you can do? Wow!

Yes.

I'm German, and I know both systems. And I've been in Asia for a long time.

And what country did you leave to emigrate to Germany?

Sorry, the other way around.

I left Germany and emigrated to Thailand.

[micmichd]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********

Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

Actually you just attacked my God and belief system (multiculturalism), but as being a multiculturalist I accept you as part of my system too. You can also be satirical about me, the narrow-minded can't insult us.

[micmichd]

I have been reading the many comments to this new article, some of the comments are

pretty good, and informative, some are a bit on the ignorant side, some are from people who

do not have much religion in their thoughts, or none at all, some are from people

who are very religious, and that is what makes these comments go in all sorts

of directions! In the world there are people who may be, fascists, and have their style of thinking,

leaning toward Fascism

other people who sound ,like they are fanatics, or nut jobs, or are close to being extremists of some

sort, and those ones scare me. The extremist thinkers, whether they are Christian, Muslim,

Islamists, or from other backgrounds, are a lot more dangerous, as they are not very

flexible in their thinking, and likely not very forgiving either.

Have any one of you thought of where the following people live in the world.

Taliban, Al Qaeda , ISIL, Boko Haram, and other extremist or terrorists.

Sadly the answer can be, they live everywhere, except maybe in parts of Russia or China.

These people can hold many countries passports and claim to be that country's

citizen, when ever they are not actively taking part in fighting their dirty, disgraceful

style of lives.

I have heard of Canadians, Americans, British and other Great Britain, and European

people showing up in these groups.

The people on these passports may be immigrants to those other countries, or some of them may have

even been born in the other countries. That makes it very hard to track some of them, and makes it so difficult

for all the countries in the world, as in what do they do when these supposed citizens, return to their

countries.

These terrorists and extremist should be considered as people without countries, and be driven from

which ever country that holds their passports.

I wonder if that is starting to happen, or not.

Just my own thoughts and opinions on this subject.

I think it is time for all countries, to end their support of any of these terrorist and extremist groups,

and be rid of all of them.

Unfortunately there are many countries, that are tribal in nature, and who have

these groups living in their country without fear. These countries should be listed

publically and banned from being in any part of the Global powers of the world.

And that will never happen.

Good idea, at the moment I consider myself to be one of those people without any country, with a clear tendency to multicultural Thailand. I would love to have a UN passport if I cannot get Thai nationality. From Germany I expect to get back my money including my taxes and social security contributions (pensions)

I don't consider myself a terrorist, actually rather a conscientious objector. In the hopefully hypothetical case of a war between the West and the East I would clearly be on the side of the East and defend my gf and her country. Any problem with my choice?

[White Christmas13]

Well here is one Aussie who agrees with the attack

http://www.news.com.au/national/paris-terror-at-charlie-hebdo-newspaper-aussies-justify-attack/story-fncynjr2-1227178984136

[Steely Dan]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********

Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

Actually you just attacked my God and belief system (multiculturalism), but as being a multiculturalist I accept you as part of my system too. You can also be satirical about me, the narrow-minded can't insult us.

You just don't get it do you Islam in its most literal forms is anathema to multiculturalism, amply demonstrated by the disappearing Christian population in Islamic states. Submit to diversity, well good luck with that one especially if you are gay or a woman who wants to work or get an education.

[Kitsune]

Hashtag "Je suis Charlie" seen 5 BILLIONS TIMES

Charlie not dead!

[Thai at Heart]

No one is forcing anyone to read anything. But someone demanding that they be respected by the barrel of a gun. That is the very essence of a bully and bullies should be stood up and one should not cower.

That is the very essence of the human spirit.

Engage them all u like, but I have no obligation to respect their views. As a human they are accorded the right to think what they like as am I. They have no right to force me to do or think anything.

I very much understand where you are coming from. I merely offer it as a strategy. One of many potential strategies. With more engagement, you probably get better at distinguishing between dialectic and personal opinion. You can test the limits of your antagonist's true thinking. Your responses to different types of intolerance can vary. I am not a trained negotiator. I have witnessed negotiators in action. Calmness and objectivity seem to be key. That is why I continue to object to the barrage of noise on these types of threads. It interferes with deliberate thought.

And those in Europe have reached out to community leaders who are often by definition the more liberal.

But they have little or no influence with the violent minority. Anf whilst they condemn the acts, they appear powerless to prevent or assist in stopping them.

Nothing is ever said with passion or anget at the acts. "Of course we condemn these act".

Where are the 10s of thousands of Muslims marching against the acts in their Burka's? Until I see the domestic Muslim population actively campaigning against extremists on a day to day basis I remain skeptical.

Every govt has more than their fair share of specialists who understand the Muslim man on the street better than u or I ever will.

[micmichd]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********
Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

Actually you just attacked my God and belief system (multiculturalism), but as being a multiculturalist I accept you as part of my system too. You can also be satirical about me, the narrow-minded can't insult us.

You just don't get it do you Islam in its most literal forms is anathema to multiculturalism, amply demonstrated by the disappearing Christian population in Islamic states. Submit to diversity, well good luck with that one especially if you are gay or a woman who wants to work or get an education.

Then why do I see so many Muslima women work in the streets of Thailand?

[Steely Dan]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********

Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

right I getcha.

Owen Jones is responsible for everything.. Glad I am in such deep thinking company on here

Thanks guys

His article didn't even get past its title to mention Islamophobia, the 'fear of backlash' tactic is a deliberate attempt to shield Islam from scrutiny. Using Breivik as a bogeyman was also calculated to slander all who are critical of Islam as advocating violence. The dishonesty of this is sadly representative of much of the press. Indoctrination by extremist forms of Islam in Mosques, schools and prisons is a huge issue. Facebook pages in Sweden and Germany were set up praising the killers, just as Some danced in the streets after 9/11. To them the murders were enforcement of Sharia and a total rejection of the laws of Western multicultural Countries. I have already shown evidence that a Majority of Muslims in Europe are in favour of Sharia law. This problem will not go away and needs addressing and not being swept under the carpet. Immigrants bring their culture and values with them and don't magically become multiculturalists when they step off the plane, where is there any plan to deal with this, save for making sure they get access to social provision?

[Steely Dan]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********
Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

Actually you just attacked my God and belief system (multiculturalism), but as being a multiculturalist I accept you as part of my system too. You can also be satirical about me, the narrow-minded can't insult us.

You just don't get it do you Islam in its most literal forms is anathema to multiculturalism, amply demonstrated by the disappearing Christian population in Islamic states. Submit to diversity, well good luck with that one especially if you are gay or a woman who wants to work or get an education.

Then why do I see so many Muslima women work in the streets of Thailand?

Try reading. Islam in its most literal forms, the same women might be blown to smithereens by some of their coreligionists for selling to infidels, selling on a Sunday or having their faces visible.

[Scott]

Please exercise care in your posting. There are numerous off-topic posts and remarks directed at other posters are not going to be tolerated.

[alanrchase]

Owen Jones write s an interesting article on this on the guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik?CMP=twt_gu

I would ask one question of the clueless Mr Jones, how many murders, bombings, rapes, death threats and no go zones does it take before you begin to suspect that your cherished 'Islamophobia' is nothing more than a rational conclusion regarding Islam based on a growing mountain of evidence.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God (Multiculturalism) that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

**********
Corrections and additions:

It's so funny to read liberals discussing what should be done when it is their political correctness, moral cowardice and obsession with their God Gods and Belief System (Multiculturalism - Diversity - Global Warming - Climate Change... Wealth Redistribution... Unlimited Government Benefits - Free Everything ... Innocent Immigrants - Rights of Open Migration - Open Borders.. Christianity Bad / Islam Good... Israel Bad - Palestenians Good that is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

Actually you just attacked my God and belief system (multiculturalism), but as being a multiculturalist I accept you as part of my system too. You can also be satirical about me, the narrow-minded can't insult us.

You just don't get it do you Islam in its most literal forms is anathema to multiculturalism, amply demonstrated by the disappearing Christian population in Islamic states. Submit to diversity, well good luck with that one especially if you are gay or a woman who wants to work or get an education.

Then why do I see so many Muslima women work in the streets of Thailand?

Try reading. Islam in its most literal forms, the same women might be blown to smithereens by some of their coreligionists for selling to infidels, selling on a Sunday or having their faces visible.

Sunday?

[canuckamuck]

If ever you bother to study the Koran, if you bother to study the Hadith or carefully study the social life in an Islamic community or better still get the opinions of intelligent Muslims, you will come to realise, that the philosophy is so profoundly flawed, so incoherent, not just on issues around morality, but on plain logic, augmented by observable reality, that it has no place within an intelligent practical framework for living a life.

It is a badly cobbled together illogical and plagiarised pile of nonsense. It didn't even manage to plagiarise the good bits from other philosophies, only the really dumb bits.

If philosophies were expressed as motor vehicles - Islam would be a Trabant. Which is not entirely a fair judgement, because the Trabant was kind of cute.

Al religions are flawed, not just islam. What makes islam stand out is that it has a lot of serious followers. You got guys worshipping cows, weed etc etc. Don't expect religions to be logical.

Actually if you judged it from a logical point of view, Islam is more logical then most religions, but it still has its flaws.

Islam's flaws include a guidebook full of hate and intolerance, and a god that celebrates death.