SURVEY: Brexit, do you support it?

[chiang mai]

A number of Thai banks now showing 52 baht to the Pound, the markets are telling us they think we're going to Remain.

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future! ?

[Grouse]

I am old enough to remember the UK as it was, a green and pleasant land....When I look at it now I see a crap environment, an influx of foreign spongers reaping stuff that ordinary UK folk fought for. My own dad shook his head before he passed at the mess our governments have created for UK folk..

They last few lines of this song tells it for me..

I am old enough to remember the UK as it was, a green and pleasant land....When I look at it now I see a crap environment, an influx of foreign spongers reaping stuff that ordinary UK folk fought for. My own dad shook his head before he passed at the mess our governments have created for UK folk..

They last few lines of this song tells it for me..

Your Post has quite riled me ! How long is it since you have lived in the UK? I have lived and worked in a multi cultural London until very recently and it is quite clear to me that any crap environment is caused by lazy British thugs who simply are not prepared to do so many jobs, even if well paid, that immigrants will do. Just look at all the P'Pinno domestic workers that are actually well paid with all living accommodation included. The Brits would rather scrounge of the welfare state instead

Add to that, i have never felt threatened by any immigrant in London but i certainly have felt as risk from young male British thugs. Either give some justification for your comments or i will just consider you as a racist !

I can agree with you about the British thugs, the youth of today are a disgrace. I can also agree that there are a lot of useless wasters in the UK who wouldn't know a days work if it jumped up and bit them. But its our welfare state to sponge off, its not there for others to abuse also. You can not justify getting child benefit for kids that are not even in the UK and sending it to where ever they came from.

But it is not racist not wanting people coming to live in your country and sponge of the state, which in some cases that is what people do. Its about looking after our own interests. If folk with skills we need want to come and work in the UK, good for them, contribute and enjoy. But if you want to come and soak up the NHS, DHSS then go somewhere else. That does not make a racist

People coming to UK from other EU member countries are net contributors to the public purse

It is the huge British underclass that are a drain

I agree with you on the wasters in the UK

However not all coming to the EU are contributors and you can not say otherwise

Correct! Not all, but taken in aggregate EU people coming to UK are net contributors ?

[Grouse]

Things have improved in my absense

Bookies reckon 86% remain!

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

Strange thing is, if you look at any conversations on forums or social media then nearly everyone is on the Brexit side and there is usually only 2 or 3 Remainers that come and argue their fear induced case. I cannot believe that 86% of people in the UK would choose to stay in the EU as just about everyone I speak to wants to leave.

I guess that says something about social media?

Bookies are not often wrong!

Note sterling against baht is back to Nov last year......why is that?

Oh, I remember; all the experts are scaremongers! Ha!

Trade figures, unemployment numbers. Now could they be the reason.

P.s Grouse, " YES" we have mist you, as your comments are always good for a laugh.

Read the FT for a full analysis, but it is the risk of Brexit receding

Thanks for your kind words, you make me feel very welcome ?

[WhamBam]

A previous poster used the term “inclusiveness” as an ideal for the citizens of the EU, believing

that the umbrella of the EU would “magically” (my word) have them all pulling together towards a common goal, united in a single purpose. How to achieve this “Utopian” state? There are no mechanisms, as yet, in place to promote a “European” patriotism. It remains a disparate and polyglot and economically unequal grouping which the EU is trying to cobble together as an “entity”. It is my belief that the EU will have largely disintegrated long before deep feelings of patriotism can be instilled or inculcated in the population, but that’s another story altogether.

I was brought up to be fiercely patriotic, although not "jingoistic" as previous generations had been.

I was proud of my country and my citizenship of it. I see nothing particularly wrong with that, although DD finds it something of an embarrassment. Perhaps it is an anachronism in this day and age? I don’t know. I would need to be persuaded.

However, I am quite certain that without some overarching program in place within the EU to create feelings of pride, belonging and, yes, patriotism in its structure, its denizens are unlikely to ever be able to coalesce into some meaningful body able to compete with the other major political and economic structures in the world at large. And they will possibly, further down the line, also become

unleadable and ungovernable because of it. Watch out for a strongman to emerge as a force for leadership in this scenario!

How to do away with individual emotional National Anthems, National sporting teams, and National Pride? It will absolutely become necessary if “Europe” is ever to work. This is not some Orwellian fantasy, by the way. The EU Commissioners will have recognized this, I am sure, and will be putting plans in place, no doubt getting ready to create a separate department and appoint a czar, mandarin or other functionary to oversee the process to its conclusion.

.

Is this what the British really want to ally themselves with? Surely not?

I recall reading - a while ago - that there will be no 'England' football team in the future, no Scots or Welsh teams either. We will have a 'Euro' team. A bit like the U.S.A. or Russia having their own teams. This has, apparently, been decided by the E.U. already but they are waiting to see what happens with the vote.

There were exercises recently in the U.K. of the E.U. 'army' that the E.U. want in place of a British army. It was on a small scale but obviously seems to be the way forward for the E.U.

The E.U. want a European police force too from what I have read.

Then there was the articles about England, Wales and Scotland becoming 'zones' in the E.U. with their own Czar(s). This would be further into the future as I recall.

Extremely interesting reading. I am not all surprised if these things are on the European Union's drawing board. I think we all have a pretty good idea, now, of how the EU Commissioners think, and what their "Grand Design" is, going forward. And where will it end? Will the United Kingdom eventually and ultimately just become a "province" of the European Union?

Do you recall what the source of the article you read, was?

As far as I recall, it was at Breitbart.

They seem to be one of the few places that give more information. I believe they were the first to break the news of the Cologne assaults over the new year.

With a lot of the British sites 'supressed' it is one of my sources of information.

[Thaiwine]

^^ your last five words is why I am worried and my grandkids too.

Opps reply to post #1386

Edited May 26, 2016 by Thaiwine

[Grouse]

Things have improved in my absense

Bookies reckon 86% remain!

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

Strange thing is, if you look at any conversations on forums or social media then nearly everyone is on the Brexit side and there is usually only 2 or 3 Remainers that come and argue their fear induced case. I cannot believe that 86% of people in the UK would choose to stay in the EU as just about everyone I speak to wants to leave.

Oh come on! is that an example of Brexiteers maths????

That percentage represents the ODDs on an event happening not the number of people voting.......

Trust me, don't try probability, odds, statistics or differential calculus with Brexteers!

Did you know there are 10 types of people in the world? Those that understand binary and those who don't ?

[Grouse]

^^ your last five words is why I am worried and my grandkids too.

Opps reply to post #1386

"Of my sources of information"

Yeah, worrying!

[chiang mai]

As far as I recall, it was at Breitbart.

They seem to be one of the few places that give more information. I believe they were the first to break the news of the Cologne assaults over the new year.

With a lot of the British sites 'supressed' it is one of my sources of information.

"With a lot of the British sites 'supressed' it is one of my sources of information".

Of course they are and the drinking water is dodgy plus there's planes spraying control stuff into the atmosphere.

[cumgranosalum]

Things have improved in my absense

Bookies reckon 86% remain!

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

Strange thing is, if you look at any conversations on forums or social media then nearly everyone is on the Brexit side and there is usually only 2 or 3 Remainers that come and argue their fear induced case. I cannot believe that 86% of people in the UK would choose to stay in the EU as just about everyone I speak to wants to leave.

Oh come on! is that an example of Brexiteers maths????

That percentage represents the ODDs on an event happening not the number of people voting.......

You're right, I misread his post, my bad. It doesn't change what I said about just about everyone I see discussing this is on the Leave side and only 1 or 2 people each time arguing to Stay.

Having said that I more than expat the vote result to be stay. People are being duped by all the lies, misinformation and scare tactics.

Your personal observation is of course way out - but you seem unaware of that too...virtually ALL the polls are reporting around 50/50 which would translate to about the same if you took a good sample of social media....if you are a brexiteer my guess is you aren't up to that.

One of the most worrying things about the leave brigade is that almost to a man on this thread they seem to be a bit on the light side when it comes to computation and reason....I think it would be a huge shame if they got their way - tantamount to the lunatics running the asylum.

however if there is a discrepancy on this thread, I would suggest that it is due to many of the "Bremainers" realising that you should “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - [George Carlin]

Edited May 26, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Grouse]

Things have improved in my absense

Bookies reckon 86% remain!

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

Strange thing is, if you look at any conversations on forums or social media then nearly everyone is on the Brexit side and there is usually only 2 or 3 Remainers that come and argue their fear induced case. I cannot believe that 86% of people in the UK would choose to stay in the EU as just about everyone I speak to wants to leave.

Oh come on! is that an example of Brexiteers maths????

That percentage represents the ODDs on an event happening not the number of people voting.......

You're right, I misread his post, my bad. It doesn't change what I said about just about everyone I see discussing this is on the Leave side and only 1 or 2 people each time arguing to Stay.

Having said that I more than expat the vote result to be stay. People are being duped by all the lies, misinformation and scare tactics.

Your personal observation is of course way out - but you seem unaware of that too...virtually ALL the polls are reporting around 50/50 which would translate to about the same if you took a good sample of social media....if you are a brexiteer my guess is you aren't up to that.

One of the most worrying things about the leave brigade is that almost to a man on this thread they seem to be a bit on the light side when it comes to computation and reason....I think it would be a huge shame if they got their way - tantamount to the lunatics running the asylum.

however if there is a discrepancy on this thread, I would suggest that it is due to many of the "Bremainers" realising that you should Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - [George Carlin]

Snigger! ?

[Grouse]

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0YG2CK?irpc=932

Very strong corrolation between education level and being pro remain

Reuters

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger (an educated one mind you)

[KunMatt]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Wrong again, my degree is in engineering and I had to do a lot of higher level maths and physics modules to get it. So I don't fit into your stereo type that everyone who wants to leave are racist uneducated idiots, that's just an easy way for you to reject any argument that is different from yours because you cannot accept that you could be wrong. The thing is I'm not scared by the government's propaganda and fear campaign and the reason they are doing it is because they need us to stay in the EU for them, not for us or the country but because they personally are much better off if we stay in the EU. Same as the only people I've spoken to who want to leave; they either live in the London bubble or they believe the fear campaign. Everyone else is up for leaving even though we all have foreign wives/children/investments/employment. I'm willing to make some concessions and suck it up for a while (if there are any issues) for the good of the UK in the long run and for my children's future. Unlike you who is too scared to do the right thing for long term gain.

And yes I have lived in mainland Europe several times since I was about 19, and you asked me before about how many languages I can speak and off the top of my head at some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about. This is all from living in those countries.

Regardless of whether you wanted the Union to stay together, look at the government's campaign of fear and false promises and how it totally screwed Scotland out a chance of independence. Do you not see the exact same thing happening with this referendum? How much of a fool are you to not learn from very recent history? They are lying and cheating us, don't let them.

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Wrong again, my degree is in engineering and I had to do a lot of higher level maths and physics modules to get it. So I don't fit into your stereo type that everyone who wants to leave are racist uneducated idiots, that's just an easy way for you to reject any argument that is different from yours because you cannot accept that you could be wrong. The thing is I'm not scared by the government's propaganda and fear campaign and the reason they are doing it is because they need us to stay in the EU for them, not for us or the country but because they personally are much better off if we stay in the EU. Same as the only people I've spoken to who want to leave; they either live in the London bubble or they believe the fear campaign. Everyone else is up for leaving even though we all have foreign wives/children/investments/employment. I'm willing to make some concessions and suck it up for a while (if there are any issues) for the good of the UK in the long run and for my children's future. Unlike you who is too scared to do the right thing for long term gain.

And yes I have lived in mainland Europe several times since I was about 19, and you asked me before about how many languages I can speak and off the top of my head at some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about. This is all from living in those countries.

Regardless of whether you wanted the Union to stay together, look at the government's campaign of fear and false promises and how it totally screwed Scotland out a chance of independence. Do you not see the exact same thing happening with this referendum? How much of a fool are you to not learn from very recent history? They are lying and cheating us, don't let them.

Extraordinary! You are certainly a statistical outlier!

You obviously are (or were) very bright!

So I'm left wondering why you come out with such codswallop! Are you unwell?

Finnish is very difficult I thought. Totally failed at that (Nokia at Salo).

BTW why KunMatt not KhunMatt? Does it mean something?

Edited May 26, 2016 by Grouse

[KunMatt]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Wrong again, my degree is in engineering and I had to do a lot of higher level maths and physics modules to get it. So I don't fit into your stereo type that everyone who wants to leave are racist uneducated idiots, that's just an easy way for you to reject any argument that is different from yours because you cannot accept that you could be wrong. The thing is I'm not scared by the government's propaganda and fear campaign and the reason they are doing it is because they need us to stay in the EU for them, not for us or the country but because they personally are much better off if we stay in the EU. Same as the only people I've spoken to who want to leave; they either live in the London bubble or they believe the fear campaign. Everyone else is up for leaving even though we all have foreign wives/children/investments/employment. I'm willing to make some concessions and suck it up for a while (if there are any issues) for the good of the UK in the long run and for my children's future. Unlike you who is too scared to do the right thing for long term gain.

And yes I have lived in mainland Europe several times since I was about 19, and you asked me before about how many languages I can speak and off the top of my head at some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about. This is all from living in those countries.

Regardless of whether you wanted the Union to stay together, look at the government's campaign of fear and false promises and how it totally screwed Scotland out a chance of independence. Do you not see the exact same thing happening with this referendum? How much of a fool are you to not learn from very recent history? They are lying and cheating us, don't let them.

Extraordinary! You are certainly a statistical outlier!

You obviously are (or were) very bright!

So I'm left wondering why you come out with such codswallop! Are you unwell?

Finnish is very difficult I thought. Totally failed at that (Nokia at Salo).

BTW why KunMatt not KhunMatt? Does it mean something?

Yeah, ignore my points and change the subject.

I guess we are done here then.

Vote leave.

[nontabury]

A number of Thai banks now showing 52 baht to the Pound, the markets are telling us they think we're going to Remain.

You are assuming that this due to the vote. Do you know for a fact?

[chiang mai]

A number of Thai banks now showing 52 baht to the Pound, the markets are telling us they think we're going to Remain.

You are assuming that this due to the vote. Do you know for a fact?

I know that eventual death is a fact, beyond that everything else is based on probability and is suspect.

BUT, the Pound has gained to 52, why, do you think the rise is due to some other reason, if so, what?

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Wrong again, my degree is in engineering and I had to do a lot of higher level maths and physics modules to get it. So I don't fit into your stereo type that everyone who wants to leave are racist uneducated idiots, that's just an easy way for you to reject any argument that is different from yours because you cannot accept that you could be wrong. The thing is I'm not scared by the government's propaganda and fear campaign and the reason they are doing it is because they need us to stay in the EU for them, not for us or the country but because they personally are much better off if we stay in the EU. Same as the only people I've spoken to who want to leave; they either live in the London bubble or they believe the fear campaign. Everyone else is up for leaving even though we all have foreign wives/children/investments/employment. I'm willing to make some concessions and suck it up for a while (if there are any issues) for the good of the UK in the long run and for my children's future. Unlike you who is too scared to do the right thing for long term gain.

And yes I have lived in mainland Europe several times since I was about 19, and you asked me before about how many languages I can speak and off the top of my head at some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about. This is all from living in those countries.

Regardless of whether you wanted the Union to stay together, look at the government's campaign of fear and false promises and how it totally screwed Scotland out a chance of independence. Do you not see the exact same thing happening with this referendum? How much of a fool are you to not learn from very recent history? They are lying and cheating us, don't let them.

Extraordinary! You are certainly a statistical outlier!

You obviously are (or were) very bright!

So I'm left wondering why you come out with such codswallop! Are you unwell?

Finnish is very difficult I thought. Totally failed at that (Nokia at Salo).

BTW why KunMatt not KhunMatt? Does it mean something?

Yeah, ignore my points and change the subject.

I guess we are done here then.

Vote leave.

I thought I responded to at least most of your points! I think most here have realised that is quite pointless dealing with entrenched positions. Better to debate individual aspects. I will vote remain and you will vote leave. That's nice isn't it? ?

[nontabury]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Are you so sure Turkey will not join in the not too distant future? I certainly do not have your optimism. You are probably relying on the Veto, well I've got news for you, a veto is of no use unless it is used. All it needs is for the government of the day to simple not use the veto, they certainly will not allow a people's democratic referendum on this issue, the decision will be made behind closed doors,if it has't already been made.

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Are you so sure Turkey will not join in the not too distant future? I certainly do not have your optimism. You are probably relying on the Veto, well I've got news for you, a veto is of no use unless it is used. All it needs is for the government of the day to simple not use the veto, they certainly will not allow a people's democratic referendum on this issue, the decision will be made behind closed doors,if it has't already been made. ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1464269832.653906.jpg

Yes, you're quite correct about the veto issue. There Is also doubt about whether Turkey could axtually meet the requirements. There was a Turkish government minister on BBC news a couple of days ago. He said it would be at least 20 years, maybe 50 years and possibly never

[Grouse]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Are you so sure Turkey will not join in the not too distant future? I certainly do not have your optimism. You are probably relying on the Veto, well I've got news for you, a veto is of no use unless it is used. All it needs is for the government of the day to simple not use the veto, they certainly will not allow a people's democratic referendum on this issue, the decision will be made behind closed doors,if it has't already been made. ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1464269832.653906.jpg

Yes, you're quite correct about the veto issue. There Is also doubt about whether Turkey could axtually meet the requirements. There was a Turkish government minister on BBC news a couple of days ago. He said it would be at least 20 years, maybe 50 years and possibly never

[nontabury]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Are you so sure Turkey will not join in the not too distant future? I certainly do not have your optimism. You are probably relying on the Veto, well I've got news for you, a veto is of no use unless it is used. All it needs is for the government of the day to simple not use the veto, they certainly will not allow a people's democratic referendum on this issue, the decision will be made behind closed doors,if it has't already been made. ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1464269832.653906.jpg

Yes, you're quite correct about the veto issue. There Is also doubt about whether Turkey could axtually meet the requirements. There was a Turkish government minister on BBC news a couple of days ago. He said it would be at least 20 years, maybe 50 years and possibly never

Is it possible he made that remark on the BBC, to help his friend Cameron on the remain side? I'll help you today,then you can help me later.

If I was a betting man, I would place a big wager that Turkey will join the EU within 5yrs, that is of course if there still is a EU in Five years.

[cumgranosalum]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

In 2015 the UK paid the EU £13B. The EU spent £4.5B back into the UK but that is money that we would spend as we please if we didn't give it away.

So as per uptheos's first post, we do give the EU £245M per week.

Fullfact has the net contribution as 8.5B

That is 163M per week

Why call me a lier?

Its a great deal of money anyway.......

Because we do pay £245M per week. We pay the EU £12.9B per year. The EU then spends £4.5B back into the UK.

So you are deliberately twisting the facts.

i give up

Glad to hear it. Vote leave.

Why? Most educated people will vote remain.

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages on balance

I have a university degree, so another incorrect assumption by you.

The fact is, if we stay then things can only stay as bad as they have been recently. There will be no reformations once we vote to remain. If you haven't learnt anything from the campaign against Scotland's independence then you are a fool. The same people are using the same fear and lie campaign with false promises. And Scotland got cheated out of their one chance, just like is happening to us now.

If we choose to leave, however, then in the long term things will only get better for us because we will be in control of what happens to us. Yes, there is a couple of years where it MAY be worse off, but it MAY also be fine or even better than all the doomsayers.

I would rather take the opportunity now to make a positive change for the UK than to be forever shackled to the failure of the EU. Especially when the EU is a mess as it currently is with many nations already bankrupted and in a recession because of their membership. The next joining 5 countries will only make the EU as a whole worse and if any other big nations decide to go for independence and bail out (pun not intended) then it will leave us on an even quicker sinking ship.

Fortune favours the brave, don't be scared into doing the wrong thing. Vote leave while we have this one opportunity to do so.

I guess your degree is not maths, science or engineering otherwise you would understand probability and statistics. MOST educated people tend toward remain. That does NOT mean all, nor does it mean that Brexiteers are uneducated as one buffoon on here claimed. It will be a Gaussian distribution. You are what is known as an outlier in this regard only.

Are countries in the EU suffering from by being members? No. It's a Euro problem.

It is by no means certain that 5 more countries will join and certainly not Turkey

I am half Scot. I wanted the union to stick together. However, if we leave EU, I hope Scotland splits away. I am buying a place in Edinburgh at the moment.

I guess you have never lived in mainland Europe? If you had, you would know that their social structure is far ahead of us and far far superior to the USA. That's another reason I want remain. I feel far closer to European social democratic principles than the grim reality of the USA. Think of your children's future!

Wrong again, my degree is in engineering and I had to do a lot of higher level maths and physics modules to get it. So I don't fit into your stereo type that everyone who wants to leave are racist uneducated idiots, that's just an easy way for you to reject any argument that is different from yours because you cannot accept that you could be wrong. The thing is I'm not scared by the government's propaganda and fear campaign and the reason they are doing it is because they need us to stay in the EU for them, not for us or the country but because they personally are much better off if we stay in the EU. Same as the only people I've spoken to who want to leave; they either live in the London bubble or they believe the fear campaign. Everyone else is up for leaving even though we all have foreign wives/children/investments/employment. I'm willing to make some concessions and suck it up for a while (if there are any issues) for the good of the UK in the long run and for my children's future. Unlike you who is too scared to do the right thing for long term gain.

And yes I have lived in mainland Europe several times since I was about 19, and you asked me before about how many languages I can speak and off the top of my head at some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about. This is all from living in those countries.

Regardless of whether you wanted the Union to stay together, look at the government's campaign of fear and false promises and how it totally screwed Scotland out a chance of independence. Do you not see the exact same thing happening with this referendum? How much of a fool are you to not learn from very recent history? They are lying and cheating us, don't let them.

"some point along in my life I have had conversations in French, Finnish, Russian, Mandarin, Thai, and probably a couple more I've forgotten about." - I expect now it is getting a bit more difficult to find people to talk to?

Is this a "some of my best friends are foreigners" - joke?

"I have had conversations" - I wonder what that means.

basically sa degree is no protection against stupidity, but reasoning, critical thinking etc do appear to correlate with "bremainers - QED?

[cumgranosalum]

Anyway, if we did leave, Wales , Northern Ireland and Scotland would be taken out of the EU against their will....so I imagine that would turn out to be unconstitutional and the referendum - which isn't binding BTW would be discarded.

[nontabury]

Failed to copy

Edited May 26, 2016 by nontabury

[Henry89]

EU is short for EUnuch. Out damn spot out

[nontabury]

Anyway, if we did leave, Wales , Northern Ireland and Scotland would be taken out of the EU against their will....so I imagine that would turn out to be unconstitutional and the referendum - which isn't binding BTW would be discarded.

According to reports I've seen, the two most pro-remain areas are London and Scotland. Scotland due to the SNP, yet even there I think the Nationalist may be surprised at the outcome. Wales I would clump in with the rest of England. N.I. Again other issues are at play.

What would happen if England and Wales voted 52% to leave and say Scotland and N.I. Voted 100% to remain. This could result in a victory for the remain camp,and consequently England and Wales would have to remain part of this corrupt so-called Union in spite of their people democratically voting Brexit.

You see it can work both ways.

[rogeroc]

Nontabury said I was basically in agreement with you,especially on your points regarding SOME Brits preferring to scrounge off the taxpayers. Then you go and spoil it, by calling other people racist. Don't you realise that's what you are,with your " lazy Brits thugs" and "Brits would rather scrouge"

I'm not saying it with you Roger,but I usually think that those who are loosing the argument, or who simple have a different view point to the other person,very often resort to using the words racist or bigot,as in Gordon Brown.

Yes, i do accept what you say and to some extent i was wrong in replying in a similar style to Transam. However i do think that labelling foreigners as scroungers (without providing a shred of supporting evidence is) really totally inappropriate and suggests a dislike of overseas workers in the UK.

[sandyf]

Latest figures show net migration rising, mainly due to a decrease in the numbers leaving the UK.

The question is, would net migration reduce if the government abandoned the frozen pension policy?

[returnofthailand]

whatever you choose, you lose.

so doesn't matter what you vote. and if you vote Brexit, UK will not leave anyway. they will do like Greece did with the "oxit"