Would You Leave Thailand ?

[sendintheclowns]

It is not a huge issue,, but Ubon Joe just confirmed that the entire extranet for guest registration (TM30), 90 day reporting and anything else on it is not working. Been down for some time now. Another brick in the Wall - making us dance around like puppets. We're retired since moving here 1999. There seems to be more and more invasive measures against decent, taxpaying long stayers, wanting security of ownership of a home and garden. My question, is in the nature of a poll:

Assuming the Thai Government makes it harder. rather than easing up on restrictions against white foreigners (we've decided to stop using the term farang):

would you leave Thailand; yes, no or maybe. Just curious.

 

[villagefarang]

This Farang is not going anywhere.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, sendintheclowns said:

It is not a huge issue,, but Ubon Joe just confirmed that the entire extranet for guest registration (TM30), 90 day reporting and anything else on it is not working.

It is not a tightening up on anything. It is certainly not intentional to make things harder or planned. I think it is a defensive measure to prevent it from being hacked. I assume you ahve read about the recent incidents of government websites being attacked.

I cannot do online 90 day  reports because of an old entry. Been doing mine by mail for over a year now without a problem.

Never been asked for a TM30.

I have seen no changes that have effected me. On my 9th extension of stay based upon marriage which was done without a problem.

When I leave here it will be as smoke from my corpses cremation.

 

[sendintheclowns]

appreciate that. I guess my background is more ''complicated''. We are a western couple, moved around a lot in the past 45 years - this being our 3rd country of choice to live in. We have rental properties and we have always wanted to own the land we live on, just like the previous countries. there are just some other than forms, things which tip the balance in favour of upping stakes and moving to where we are not treated as second class citizens. It would be useful if anyone else replying discloses whether they married a Thai lady/man ? thanks for your time and the Best, for 2017, everyone.

[55Jay]

Two words in your OP stand out to me.  "Seems" and "Assuming".

 

What's changed for you, specifically, since you arrived here?

 

To answer your question though - yes.  If things went off the rails in Thailand, we would leave and my Thai spouse wouldn't bat an eyelid.  IMO, every expat living in the 3rd/Developing World ought to have a Plan B, and the resources to execute it. 

[LivinLOS]

Have spent the last year setting up exactly this.. From a few years ago buying 5 rai for the grand villa and maybe a bunch of rental homes around a pool (estimated 30 mil inward) to dropping off extensions back to a ME visa, going and setting up a fall back home in the west, starting a biz back there, and the full lifeboat option to be on a plane in a day or two without any real interruption to my life just in case.. 

 

What I discovered this summer was

1) the UK is probably cheaper, for the life I lead and the things I consume these days than Thailand is

2) theres sooo much to do that I had forgotten I loved (track days, racing calendar, flight lessons, music festivals, bands, etc).. 

3) making money is so easy back there that not only is it not costing me anything, its set to me making me multi 100k doing it. 

 

I am younger than some at 43, been 'retired' here since I was 28.. Allowed myself to become brainwashed by every expats complaints of trips home, the self validation of 'how great it was to be back' or holiday makers gushing over how lucky it is to be here.. Sure it may be fine at 60 to wind down and live slow in a semi decent climate but this last year has me enthused with the action of being back in europe, my only problems involve the wife / travel / our dog / etc.. 

 

Of course its cold and dark in the UK now.. So I am here.. Counting the days until the winter is over to get back. I am really wondering if I wouldnt do far better having a villa in portugal for the winter rather than here. The biz I have started can easily pay for that cost without touching any of my nestegg. 

 

[LannaGuy]

IF the infrastructure in the Philippines was Thai standard I'd be gone in a flash  (nicer people, more polite, less nationalistic, English speaking etc.)

[Crossy]

I've not seen any significant changes either, so no, we won't be going anywhere. Wifey (Thai) is happy in our (her) home with her pets, if she's happy she makes me happy.

 

The annual circus of extension of stay is a bind but my employer has a good girl who manages most of the juggling (currently on a business extension), I only have to waste 1 day or so at immigration.

 

 

[jak2002003]

38 minutes ago, sendintheclowns said:

appreciate that. I guess my background is more ''complicated''. We are a western couple, moved around a lot in the past 45 years - this being our 3rd country of choice to live in. We have rental properties and we have always wanted to own the land we live on, just like the previous countries. there are just some other than forms, things which tip the balance in favour of upping stakes and moving to where we are not treated as second class citizens. It would be useful if anyone else replying discloses whether they married a Thai lady/man ? thanks for your time and the Best, for 2017, everyone.

If you have always wanted to own land then you must know you can never do that in Thailand as a farang. 

 

How exactly are you and your wife treated as second class citizens?  I have mostly found I am treated better than most Thai people and Thais seem to think 'normal' farangs are a class above them.. being very polite and helpful.  Of course there are frustrating legal things.. like filling in stupid forms so often... but in the grand scale of things it only takes a few minutes of your time and its no big deal.

 

It sounds like you have decided you don't like it here already and so I advise you to go to another country and buy land like you want to.

 

We are a western couple also... but we rent the land we live on.  I find the good things here far outweigh the bad things....  it was the other way around in the UK!!!! 

[baansgr]

As most people are now settled with partners or family, the question should be, if you were to choose somewhere to retire/live, would you still choose Thailand. In all honesty I definately wouldn't. Main reason being the visa system here compared to most other countries offers no real long term visa. 14 years, wife, kids, working and still reporting every 90 days. Citizenship not an option as no consecutive tax payments. Although happy enough, personally feel wasted best part of my life and dread the idea trundling down to immigration with my zimmer frame

[mstevens]

I can't answer the question of whether I would leave Thailand or not - as I do not live there - but I can explain why I choose not to live there year round.  Over the past few years I have spent several months each year in Thailand.  I enjoy it as a base to visit other parts of the region.

 

This past year I spent almost 9 months in Thailand.  Last year it was less than 4 months.  The year before it was maybe 8 months.  Unlike many, I fly back Down Under every few months and don't stay in Thailand for any more than 4 months at a time.  I like Thailand, but I like my own country too!

 

I am under 50 and semi-retired (I have passive income but do not work) so if I wanted to stay in Thailand I guess my visa options would be to use multiple-entry tourist visas or buy the the Elite card.  If I was going to spend most of my time for the next 5 years in Thailand I would get the Elite card.  However, I find after a few months I need to get away from Thailand for a couple of months and find the place all gets a bit much for me.  At times it is just too hot and at other times I get annoyed with the people - that is the foreign residents.

 

Thailand has a lot going for it but living year round is too much for me.  I enjoy the variety of moving backwards and forwards between Australia and Thailand and find that splitting my time between the two countries keeps me happy and I bore of neither.

 

 

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Have spent the last year setting up exactly this.. From a few years ago buying 5 rai for the grand villa and maybe a bunch of rental homes around a pool (estimated 30 mil inward) to dropping off extensions back to a ME visa, going and setting up a fall back home in the west, starting a biz back there, and the full lifeboat option to be on a plane in a day or two without any real interruption to my life just in case.. 

 

What I discovered this summer was

1) the UK is probably cheaper, for the life I lead and the things I consume these days than Thailand is

2) theres sooo much to do that I had forgotten I loved (track days, racing calendar, flight lessons, music festivals, bands, etc).. 

3) making money is so easy back there that not only is it not costing me anything, its set to me making me multi 100k doing it. 

 

I am younger than some at 43, been 'retired' here since I was 28.. Allowed myself to become brainwashed by every expats complaints of trips home, the self validation of 'how great it was to be back' or holiday makers gushing over how lucky it is to be here.. Sure it may be fine at 60 to wind down and live slow in a semi decent climate but this last year has me enthused with the action of being back in europe, my only problems involve the wife / travel / our dog / etc.. 

 

Of course its cold and dark in the UK now.. So I am here.. Counting the days until the winter is over to get back. I am really wondering if I wouldnt do far better having a villa in portugal for the winter rather than here. The biz I have started can easily pay for that cost without touching any of my nestegg. 

 

like you LL i mis the racing,[dogs] fishing [fly] the odd drink with mates [not any more].

only problems age 70plus,  the travel and our beloved DOG,that would be the wife's only problem.[THE DOG]

the weather is good for me [a lot of athritus] but we would go and live in maspalomas with the dog.

the cost of living has changed,my wife is a walking [buy one and get one] she worked on av.75hrs.a week to get where she is today,so its only if its CHEAP will she part with her hard earned cash.

i dont want to think what happens here cause after living here,vacations,ect.over 35yrs.it does seem to be a lawless country.

can my wife handle it yes,she does have a little bit upstairs[brain].

[glegolo]

For me personally, as long as these restrictions doesn´t touch me, I dont care. I have learnt the essentials here in Thailand, and have no problem, in either posting my 90 day report, doing it online, or even going there in person, no big deal at all,, retiremed I am....

 

Yearly extensions easy, and exactly done the very same way as for 9 years ago, so no change there either.... And on top of that re entry permits, just buy one, and jump on a plane, no big deal....

 

So I do not personally see any problem, and cant understand all that complaining from many people.... But the biggest complainers are indeed the ones that dont understand the VISA and extension process... They live in the dark, and see it all as problematic..

 

So if Thailand would knock on my door, and tell me I am not welcome any more, I would of course leave, but not otherwise..

 

Good luck all..

Glegolo

[sendintheclowns]

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If you have always wanted to own land then you must know you can never do that in Thailand as a farang. 

 

How exactly are you and your wife treated as second class citizens?  I have mostly found I am treated better than most Thai people and Thais seem to think 'normal' farangs are a class above them.. being very polite and helpful.  Of course there are frustrating legal things.. like filling in stupid forms so often... but in the grand scale of things it only takes a few minutes of your time and its no big deal.

 

It sounds like you have decided you don't like it here already and so I advise you to go to another country and buy land like you want to.

 

We are a western couple also... but we rent the land we live on.  I find the good things here far outweigh the bad things....  it was the other way around in the UK!!!! 

Fair questions and comments. First, please excuse the length of my reply. we moved here, originally, part time in 1992 and thought renting would do for us. 6 months here and 6 months in Vancouver.  We did learn very quickly that we cannot buy land. But, we also learned the next best thing was to enter into a 30+30+30 year lease. That lease was registered at the land Dept., so, one would imagine the regulations would not change. This is probably the biggest worry, I think. The property rules do keep changing and they change retroactively.  My understanding is that all land departments will now refuse to register a lease with extension clauses.

Secondly, The 'personal information mining' is what comes to mind. in the past 12 months, (although it was an old regulation), the TM28/30 has been introduced. I wouldn't mind if it worked. In 2016, I submitted 4 different forms (TM47 and TM30's) which have been lost, or thrown away (registered post and I included the stamped SAE's). This required me to drive to Nakohn Immigration twice and to Phuket Immigration once. 

In 2016, we had the requirement to file personal information forms, which originally asked for personal family details, bank accounts and your computer id. Unfortunately, we were one of the first to file, without being advised that the last bit of info. was voluntary. The last Visa extension (supported by the 800k deposit certficate) was delayed, whilst the senior officer scanned through the 3 month         certified bank statements - ''we need to make sure that you have money coming in to Thailand to live off'' Look, we've been happy living here for 20 years.

A senior bank manager interviewed me, in November, at our village branch, out of the blue - ''where do you live, what are you doing in Thailand, what kind of visa do you have, do you know you can't work anywhere in Thailand, does your country send you money''. This has been my bank for 23 year; my local branch for 12 yrs.  Again

OK - some of this is 'normal', for the third world. But, I cannot say that my wife and I are looking forward us hitting our 80's and dealing with, potentially even more of the ''this is not your country'' attitude which, we all know the education system is still beating in to school children. In summary, we have no desire to up and leave Thailand. I was curious to see what the general population of TV members think, currently, esp. western couples, who do not have Thai family connections.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

IF the infrastructure in the Philippines was Thai standard I'd be gone in a flash  (nicer people, more polite, less nationalistic, English speaking etc.)

 

My Thai GF and I have discussed the PI if the retirement options change or my short-term Tourist Visa options are removed (I am not quite 50 yet).  I prefer Thailand by far, but the PI would be a decent 2nd choice, if not for one problem in particular. I have friends there, and none can get decent Internet (even at large businesses) sufficient to have a clear skype-voice call.  Both GF and I would find that to be a big problem.  She could not even do video-chats with her family back here.  So, for now, the PI is not an option. 

 

As to "where else": She has no interest in Cambodia (can't blame her, given how they view Thais).  Laos has few long-stay options for farangs (and land-border hops to Thailand ever 2 months from Laos are now off the table). 

 

Marriage has implications with her family that neither of us want to affect our relationship.  So all we can do right now, is cross our fingers.

[wayned]

NO!!

[LannaGuy]

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

My Thai GF and I have discussed the PI if the retirement options change or my short-term Tourist Visa options are removed (I am not quite 50 yet).  I prefer Thailand by far, but the PI would be a decent 2nd choice, if not for one problem in particular. I have friends there, and none can get decent Internet (even at large businesses) sufficient to have a clear skype-voice call.  Both GF and I would find that to be a big problem.  She could not even do video-chats with her family back here.  So, for now, the PI is not an option. 

 

As to "where else": She has no interest in Cambodia (can't blame her, given how they view Thais).  Laos has few long-stay options for farangs (and land-border hops to Thailand ever 2 months from Laos are now off the table). 

 

Marriage has implications with her family that neither of us want to affect our relationship.  So all we can do right now, is cross our fingers.

 

I must say I go there 3 to 4 times a year and never had any issues with internet but then I stay in a classy hotel which gives me decent enough speed. It's the roads, shopping choices, hospitals etc. which are the let down for me. Apart from a very few places (the big shopping malls  i.e. Greenbelt etc.) the PI is way behind Thailand but I like the people more and certainly they are way more polite (I still miss that 'can I help you Sir' that you get there) and the people are softer  (Filipinos make excellent nurses). Anyway no chance of me going for the reasons I state and happy to hop over there several times a year and hop back.

[WhamBam]

i stopped living here full time a couple of years ago. I too like to go back to my home country now for various reasons.

I retain some good friendships here with both foreigners and Thai. Both groups are very helpful. I'd not like to lose either of those groups.

I do feel that the more hoops we are made to jump through and the apparent growing attitude against many foreigners makes it seem less desirable to come back here full time.

As things stand I can stay here for 150 days a time or less and that is enough now in one go. ( 1 TV and a border run - both extendable ).

 

Our attitudes change over time. I have no idea what I want to do in the future and will follow my heart.

[gk10002000]

After my first few trips in 2004 I couldn't wait for my early retirement.  I loved the place.  I worked hard, invested for income, dividends and interest and now my investments pay me more than 50k USD a year, much of which is tax free and I could easily retire in Thailand.  In 3 years I can get my early social security so I am in very good fiscal shape.  However, the things Thailand now requires are exactly the types of things I do not like.  Asking too much personal information, requiring constant reporting, looking for any little issue that makes things not smooth.  I hate military coups that constantly occur.  The USA makes it challenging to keep my financial instruments where they are in the USA while living in Thailand.  Banking and transferring funds, keeping USA driver license, address and other things are not trivial issues.  All in all, it looks like I won't be retiring there.  Long vacations, sure.  But I think I have to keep a USA presence in my current tax free state Florida, possibly move to another at the proper time.  Thailand I think is less stable than you might think.  And without a stable Civilian government, foreigners are increasingly at risk in many areas.  The legal system is nonsense and gives a foreigner little access or recourse.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, villagefarang said:

This Farang is not going anywhere.

 

Yes, I agree.  I have been living here in retirement now for a decade and stayed here 3 or 4 months a year for nearly that long before retirement. I haven't noticed that anything has become more onerous with regards to immigrations over the years. The 90 day report is annoying, but nothing I'd get all hot & bothered about. The only other interaction I have with immigrations is the annual renewal of my retirement extension which in recent years has consumed about an hour of my time, including travel to and from the immigration office.

 

4 hours ago, sendintheclowns said:

Assuming the Thai Government makes it harder. rather than easing up on restrictions against white foreigners (we've decided to stop using the term farang):

 

Can't see any reason to contemplate leaving Thailand, which is now my home. Can't see any evidence that I'm being discriminated against because of how white I am. Not sure how using "white" as opposed to "farang" implies anything about Thailand other than on your part ... which suggests the bigger issue lies with your perceptions.

[williamgeorgeallen]

just left. my son turned 5 and it is time for him to start school in nz. quite enjoying being home actually but it is summer, not sure how i will feel in the winter. am looking at ways of insulating my house which i will be keeping nice and warm. great not to have the 90 day reporting and visa hassles. my girl can easily get a 2 year visa for 250NZ$ that includes the option to work if she wants. i loved my 10 years in thailand and never could understand why they make it so difficult for foreigners to retire there. its free money for them. the bullshit excuse about us working is silly. anyone with money in the bank should be allowed to stay to spend it. i can see less expats staying in thailand in the future. i will probably be back in 15 years when the kids are through school. have to wonder what it will be like then.

[Saraphee]

YES if made to feel unwanted then we would leave. We, like many others have options at hand.

[12DrinkMore]

I guess that I do not live in Thailand.

 

I do not experience more issues at immigration.

 

I do not have bank managers asking about my income and status.

 

I do not feel that I am unwanted.

 

I do not feel I live in a less stable land (with Brexit all those Brits on the continent are proabably way more concerned)

 

I find things have improved enormously over the years.

 

I do not routinely get pullled over by the cops.

 

I do not get assaulted when walking around.

 

I do not have problems with internet banking.

 

I do not get run off the road by manic drivers.

 

I do not regularly, indeed it has never happened, have money disappearing from my bank account. Only the Brits managed to do that.

 

I have never had a Thai bank collapse on me and get absorbed into the government.

 

I have never had the THB forced down the toilet by lunatic Central Bankers.

 

I can walk to the 7/11 24 hours a day and meet friendly staff.

 

My internet, power and water supplies are very stable.

 

I meet normal people doing normal things in the streets.

 

The opening of Makro, Tesco, Big C has improved the quality and variety of goods and reduced my cost of living.

 

I could write a load more....

 

With all these great things going on, maybe I am back in England.  

[arithai12]

It's not just the burocracy, it's especially the big changes in society. So yes, we have been considering plans B and C and D. Never put all your eggs in one basket.

[connda]

This is where my family is, and as such this is my home.  As Ubonjoe aptly stated, I plan to exit Thailand via the village crematorium just down the road.  Until that day comes, I'll adapt. 

[jpmerlin]

never live thailand!

[abrahamzvi]

6 hours ago, villagefarang said:

This Farang is not going anywhere.

Join the club. I love living here and will stay here for the rest of my life, which I hope will be long.

[bridge2bridge]

After 8 years I have already left.

only come for holiday now and again.

 

[BuaBS]

If I could , I'd be out of here in a flash .

Next year going home for a few months , so at least I don't have to sit through the smog season and the 40 celcius.

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, sendintheclowns said:

moving to where we are not treated as second class citizens.

 

Through what process did you become a citizen of Thailand and where would you consider moving where you could easily become a citizen?