In detention right now about to be deported

[Momofarang]

5 hours ago, dubyadee said:

Does anyone actually, 100%, unequivically know if getting a brand new passport (same name and DOB) solves this problem and wipes your slate clean? 

 

Seems like a mostly just read people guessing on this subject.

I 'll share my own experience.

For about 5 years I went in and out Thailand with my Australian passport (the one I am proud of). Then I retired and the Thai embassy in Paris would give me the OA visa only in my French passport (the Thai consulate in Geneva would only deliver O visa).

Anyhow, when I went through immigration in BKK, the IO looked at her screen and:

- "oohh you got two passports?",

- "Yes Madam"

End of story.

(So, now my French passport is dedicated to Thai immigration shit, the Australian one for everything else.)

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

How would a credit or debit card prove you had access to funds.  Would you have to swipe your card?  Otherwise an IO would have no way to tell if you had a valid card with an accessible balance. You all don't seem to get it, it's not about what you want, it's about what they want, get used to it. 

The airline rules say plastic is enough (  http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/TH-Thailand-passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm  )

Visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to cover their stay (at least THB 10,000.- per person or THB 20,000.- per family). Proof of funds includes Letters of Credit, vouchers, MCO's or well-known credit cards, which are honored in Thailand.

 

The funds listed in that paragraph are for visa-exempt entry - double them for those holding visas (20K / 40K).  The important part is how they specify one is to prove the funds. 

 

Assuming the passenger's destination is a civilized and modern country, the airlines would assume any dispute regarding financial-solvency would be solved by their passenger going to an ATM machine (hence, honored in Thailand in the wording).  Only the expectation of an uncivilized destination would predict a scenario where immigration refuses allowing their passenger to go to an ATM to prove they had the money, rejects-entry based on this, and locks that person in detention pending expulsion from the country. 

 

If an American citizen were traveling to Iran or Syria, one might expect this sort of behavior upon arrival, due to a grudge against the passport-holder's nationality.  A similar sentiment, held by Airport immigration here (not shared by most Thais, or even most IOs), would seem to best explain this behavior. 

 

Whether having the funds In Cash might still have resulted in rejection, based on "intending to work illegally" (impossible to disprove a negative), is an open question.

[tonray]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

The airline rules say plastic is enough (  http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/TH-Thailand-passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm  )

Visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to cover their stay (at least THB 10,000.- per person or THB 20,000.- per family). Proof of funds includes Letters of Credit, vouchers, MCO's or well-known credit cards, which are honored in Thailand.

 

The funds listed in that paragraph are for visa-exempt entry - double them for those holding visas (20K / 40K).  The important part is how they specify one is to prove the funds. 

 

Assuming the passenger's destination is a civilized and modern country, the airlines would assume any dispute regarding financial-solvency would be solved by their passenger going to an ATM machine (hence, honored in Thailand in the wording).  Only the expectation of an uncivilized destination would predict a scenario where immigration refuses allowing their passenger to go to an ATM to prove they had the money, rejects-entry based on this, and locks that person in detention pending expulsion from the country. 

 

If an American citizen were traveling to Iran or Syria, one might expect this sort of behavior upon arrival, due to a grudge against the passport-holder's nationality.  A similar sentiment, held by Airport immigration here (not shared by most Thais, or even most IOs), would seem to best explain this behavior. 

 

Whether having the funds In Cash might still have resulted in rejection, based on "intending to work illegally" (impossible to disprove a negative), is an open question.

Of course the IOs are using it as an excuse buy why make it easy for them ? Swimming against the tide always has one outcome.

[jeab1980]

25 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The airline rules say plastic is enough (  http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/TH-Thailand-passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm  )

Visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to cover their stay (at least THB 10,000.- per person or THB 20,000.- per family). Proof of funds includes Letters of Credit, vouchers, MCO's or well-known credit cards, which are honored in Thailand.

 

The funds listed in that paragraph are for visa-exempt entry - double them for those holding visas (20K / 40K).  The important part is how they specify one is to prove the funds. 

 

Assuming the passenger's destination is a civilized and modern country, the airlines would assume any dispute regarding financial-solvency would be solved by their passenger going to an ATM machine (hence, honored in Thailand in the wording).  Only the expectation of an uncivilized destination would predict a scenario where immigration refuses allowing their passenger to go to an ATM to prove they had the money, rejects-entry based on this, and locks that person in detention pending expulsion from the country. 

 

If an American citizen were traveling to Iran or Syria, one might expect this sort of behavior upon arrival, due to a grudge against the passport-holder's nationality.  A similar sentiment, held by Airport immigration here (not shared by most Thais, or even most IOs), would seem to best explain this behavior. 

 

Whether having the funds In Cash might still have resulted in rejection, based on "intending to work illegally" (impossible to disprove a negative), is an open question.

Thailand immigration is not an airline nor is it iran or syria. So what they might or might not accept or do has sod all relevance to Thailand.

In Thailand i can pay my bills direct at 7/11 or pay for flights at Tesco lotus. I cant in the UK but that has sod all relevance either.

THIS IS THAILAND

[007 RED]

6 hours ago, dubyadee said:

Does anyone actually, 100%, unequivically know if getting a brand new passport (same name and DOB) solves this problem and wipes your slate clean? 

 

Seems like a mostly just read people guessing on this subject.

Sorry, but changing a passport, or your name(s), wont wipe the slate clean.

When you present your passport to the IO at the point of entry he/she put onto a scanner which checks a number of things.  As well as checking various security features embedded on the page which contains your photo the scanner reads the code at the bottom and compares it with what is in the immigration database.  If you have a close look at the code it’s not too difficult to work out.

 

P = Passport (ID Type)

<XXXFamilyName<  ( where XXX = Country Code)

<Given names<<<<<

<Passport numberZ< (where Z is a check number)

<XXX<  (Country Code)

<Date of birth  (YYMMDDZ where Z = a check number)

M or F (Gender)

Date of expiry of passport  (YYMMDDZ where Z =a  check number)

 

The only thing that will change when you present a new passport is your passport number.  If the system cannot match your ID type + country code + passport number it will then run a series of checks against a combination of the other info for example: ID type + country code + gender + date of birth + family name.  If it finds any matches, the system will then display photos of those individuals which the IO can then compare against the person standing in front of him/her.  Even if you change your family and given names the system is still able to throw up photos of people who have the same ID type + country code + gender + date of birth.  It only takes a fraction of a second for the system to do all of its checks and for the details to appear on the IO's monitor.

[bobyalseor]

10 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Even if you change your family and given names the system is still able to throw up photos of people who have the same ID type + country code + gender + date of birth.  It only takes a fraction of a second for the system to do all of its checks and for the details to appear on the IO's monitor.

 

Impressive Immigration workers sampling through 100.000s of people to let you in

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Thailand immigration is not an airline nor is it iran or syria. So what they might or might not accept or do has sod all relevance to Thailand.

In Thailand i can pay my bills direct at 7/11 or pay for flights at Tesco lotus. I cant in the UK but that has sod all relevance either.

THIS IS THAILAND

It is the behavior of the IOs at the airport - in this And Other Cases - which mirrors what one might expect in how Iran or Syria would treat an American - though those nations would have a much better case as to why they would act that way (even though the American traveler likely has exactly zero-power as regards US international relations / policy). 

 

Clearly, this airline policy/system needs to be updated to reflect the current policies of Thai immigration at airports - updating the rules for Thailand to more closely resemble countries with whom Thailand would probably not want to be associated - OR - someone higher-up needs to clear out the supervisor(s) who are encouraging / validating this behavior - OR - change and publish rules of entry to reflect actual policy, so that anyone coming to Thailand knows what to expect before they board a plane or approach a border-crossing.

[Momofarang]

4 minutes ago, bobyalseor said:

 

Impressive Immigration workers sampling through 100.000s of people to let you in

It is millions, in fact, but no rocket science. Back in 1983 one of my ex-wife's assignments, with immigration in Canberra, was to implement, a phonetic name search. SPL later reacquired the rights for the code and flogged it under the brand name "SSA Name". There was quite a challenge as we all know the inherent weaknesses of transliterations. In those days the system was run in batch mode  on a mainframe to create entry/exit pairs. Unmatched movements being investigated. Everything is a lot easier today as any smartphone has more raw power than any mainframe of the early 80s.

[4evermaat]

@Tsm12345 or anyone

 

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think is time to get this topic back on topic. I has drifted way off topic. I may have to close it to clean it up if it does not get back on topic.

Certainly no help is being offered to the OP since he is already out of detention and is in Laos now.

 

Edit: And now some new off topic posts have been removed. 

 

So can we now recount how many days total from the initial denial of entry stamp until OP was flown back to Laos?

 

also for the "other" instance where someone was denied entry at the airport....how many days did it take for them to be flown back to previous destination (or onwards if it was allowed)?

 

Trying to get an idea of how long this takes.

[jeab1980]

 

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is the behavior of the IOs at the airport - in this And Other Cases - which mirrors what one might expect in how Iran or Syria would treat an American - though those nations would have a much better case as to why they would act that way (even though the American traveler likely has exactly zero-power as regards US international relations / policy). 

 

Clearly, this airline policy/system needs to be updated to reflect the current policies of Thai immigration at airports - updating the rules for Thailand to more closely resemble countries with whom Thailand would probably not want to be associated - OR - someone higher-up needs to clear out the supervisor(s) who are encouraging / validating this behavior - OR - change and publish rules of entry to reflect actual policy, so that anyone coming to Thailand knows what to expect before they board a plane or approach a border-crossing.

So now your saying IO's only target Americans! Got to love how yanks can always bring it back to just them. But i suppose you are only a very young nation and need to be in the spotlight.

Edited July 15, 2017 by jeab1980

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

So can we now recount how many days total from the initial denial of entry stamp until OP was flown back to Laos?

Apparently less than a day. Topic was started yesterday morning and he posted yesterday he was on the way back to Laos.

 

[Tsm12345]

I'm back home in Bangkok. Thanks for the help. I bought a flight to Germany. Withdrew 30k THB. Got a medical certificate. Took the invoice from my hotel in Laos. Asked my lobbyguy to send me a letter for my serviced apartment that shows I have paid it till September. Got another letter from my Language school + contacts to call. Got a bankstatement. And yeah got through. Rough few days. 

 

 

 

[Tsm12345]

<deleted> that IO btw.

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, Tsm12345 said:

I'm back home in Bangkok. Thanks for the help. I bought a flight to Germany. Withdrew 30k THB. Got a medical certificate. Took the invoice from my hotel in Laos. Asked my lobbyguy to send me a letter for my serviced apartment that shows I have paid it till September. Got another letter from my Language school + contacts to call. Got a bankstatement. And yeah got through. Rough few days. 

 

 

 

Ok got to ask why buy a flight back to Germany? You have a ED visa yes? Why did you get a medical? What has invoice from hotel in Laos going to help you with?

[anto]

4 minutes ago, Tsm12345 said:

I'm back home in Bangkok. Thanks for the help. I bought a flight to Germany. Withdrew 30k THB. Got a medical certificate. Took the invoice from my hotel in Laos. Asked my lobbyguy to send me a letter for my serviced apartment that shows I have paid it till September. Got another letter from my Language school + contacts to call. Got a bankstatement. And yeah got through. Rough few days. 

 

 

 

Not sure why you needed a ticket back to Germany ,or a medical cert .A letter from your paid apartment ,got to Lao in one day ? Its all a mystery to me .

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Momofarang said:

I 'll share my own experience.

For about 5 years I went in and out Thailand with my Australian passport (the one I am proud of). Then I retired and the Thai embassy in Paris would give me the OA visa only in my French passport (the Thai consulate in Geneva would only deliver O visa).

Anyhow, when I went through immigration in BKK, the IO looked at her screen and:

- "oohh you got two passports?",

- "Yes Madam"

End of story.

(So, now my French passport is dedicated to Thai immigration shit, the Australian one for everything else.)

Just did probably my +200th entry to Thailand over about 24 years after a short business trip to Saigon, flipping the passports as I do to stop one filling up too fast. No questions asked about the other passport that enabled my previous entry and stay and was processed through their system less than 3 days earlier.

 

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

The only thing that will change when you present a new passport is your passport number.  If the system cannot match your ID type + country code + passport number it will then run a series of checks against a combination of the other info for example: ID type + country code + gender + date of birth + family name.  If it finds any matches, the system will then display photos of those individuals which the IO can then compare against the person standing in front of him/her.  Even if you change your family and given names the system is still able to throw up photos of people who have the same ID type + country code + gender + date of birth.  It only takes a fraction of a second for the system to do all of its checks and for the details to appear on the IO's monitor.

Both my current passports, renewed within a month of each other, have identical photographs, same name, same date of birth, same place of birth, just different issue/expiry dates and numbers.

 

Still no questions asked by Immigration about either passport.

 

To whom should I write to make a complaint?

Edited July 15, 2017 by NanLaew

[Tsm12345]

4 minutes ago, anto said:

Not sure why you needed a ticket back to Germany ,or a medical cert .A letter from your paid apartment ,got to Lao in one day ? Its all a mystery to me .

I just got all that to be safe on entering. I booked the flight back to show that I have the means to come and go and what not. I dno man I just didn't want there to be any space for argument of me being unable to support myself or leave the country whenever I want or have to.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, anto said:

Not sure why you needed a ticket back to Germany ,or a medical cert .A letter from your paid apartment ,got to Lao in one day ? Its all a mystery to me .

It's called "belt and braces" and it worked!

 

PS. You can attach documents (letters) via email attachments and some social chat apps.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Of course the IOs are using it as an excuse buy why make it easy for them ? Swimming against the tide always has one outcome.

Exactly, it is just an excuse.

 

The real reason is suspicion of working in Thailand.

[buick]

OP - glad you made it back and thanks for all the updates along the way.  

[oldhippy]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Exactly, it is just an excuse.

 

The real reason is suspicion of working in Thailand.

suspicion

[anto]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

It's called "belt and braces" and it worked!

 

PS. You can attach documents (letters) via email attachments and some social chat apps.

OK but if he just said an e-mail it would have been clearer to me .Anyway glad he got back to his place in Bangkok.Visa issues are always a worry .

[jeab1980]

15 minutes ago, Tsm12345 said:

I just got all that to be safe on entering. I booked the flight back to show that I have the means to come and go and what not. I dno man I just didn't want there to be any space for argument of me being unable to support myself or leave the country whenever I want or have to.

So what type of visa did you come back in on?

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

suspicion

They even wrote it in the passport.

[oldhippy]

Just now, stevenl said:

They even wrote it in the passport.

Exactly my point.

Just imagine a dutch official writing his suspicions on an official document.

 

[anto]

I hear of more and more Westerners teaching English here in Thailand ,by Skype etc to students in China and Japan .They are also paid from abroad .Is that within the Thai law ?

[JackThompson]

38 minutes ago, Tsm12345 said:

I'm back home in Bangkok. Thanks for the help. I bought a flight to Germany. Withdrew 30k THB. Got a medical certificate. Took the invoice from my hotel in Laos. Asked my lobbyguy to send me a letter for my serviced apartment that shows I have paid it till September. Got another letter from my Language school + contacts to call. Got a bankstatement. And yeah got through. Rough few days. 

Did you fly-back, or walk over the bridge?  What of the stuff you prepared was asked for upon entry (if any)?  Taken aside and questioned, again?

Edited July 15, 2017 by JackThompson

[NanLaew]

Just now, anto said:

I hear of more and more Westerners teaching English here in Thailand ,by Skype etc to students in China and Japan .They are also paid from abroad .Is that within the Thai law ?

That's probably what Thai Immigration has also heard is going on and no, when tested against the basic interpretation of Thai Labour Law, it isn't legal.

[Mianoinadme]

1 hour ago, Tsm12345 said:

I'm back home in Bangkok. Thanks for the help. I bought a flight to Germany. Withdrew 30k THB. Got a medical certificate. Took the invoice from my hotel in Laos. Asked my lobbyguy to send me a letter for my serviced apartment that shows I have paid it till September. Got another letter from my Language school + contacts to call. Got a bankstatement. And yeah got through. Rough few days. 

 

 

 

Congrats. 

[Sheryl]

Glad to hear you made it in.

 

Can you tell us:

- did you enter through Suvanabhimi?

-Any questions asked and if so, what?

-did you need to show anything this time around?

etc