Q & A from the TAT about reports that some tourists were refused entry to Thailand

[jeab1980]

Just now, overherebc said:

Probably a 10 year multi entry similar to the one for USA my wife has in her passport that didn't cost a million baht.

Sorry do you want me to feel sorry for him. Stayed by you he has a mill sitting in bank. Elite visa a dtop in the ocean for him

 If he doesnt know what he wants to do then he can come over on S/M Visa.'s for 3 months at a time. No problem really can't fathom out what the problem is

[overherebc]

20 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Sorry do you want me to feel sorry for him. Stayed by you he has a mill sitting in bank. Elite visa a dtop in the ocean for him

 If he doesnt know what he wants to do then he can come over on S/M Visa.'s for 3 months at a time. No problem really can't fathom out what the problem is

I've never really discussed it with him, his business.

The only thing he mentioned on visas was 10 year multi's for other countries are a fraction of the price of similar in Thailand.

[Tanoshi]

38 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

That is interesting because 180 days could(theoretically) be amassed quite legally with an METV.

 

Perhaps that applicants passport revealed a mass of visa exempt and SETVs ? 

I honestly don't know his previous history.

From what I could overhear, it appeared to be his third TV in the last 12 months, and he'd already been granted a 30 day extension on one of them.

The IO, who was the senior, stated it 'was orders from above'.

 

I've previously read some reports of IO's using that phrase, but this was the first time I witnessed it.

[Tanoshi]

49 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

 If he doesnt know what he wants to do then he can come over on S/M Visa.'s for 3 months at a time. No problem really can't fathom out what the problem is

Single, mid 40's, his Visa options are limited.

 

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Single, mid 40's, his Visa options are limited.

 

He does always carry more than the required cash just in case he is asked.

[jeab1980]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Single, mid 40's, his Visa options are limited.

 

No not really S/M tourist visa. Could use them and come and go as he wanted. 

[moe666]

20 hours ago, jimster said:

I'm aware of this but what I am suggesting is that some Thai immigration officers seem to be making a mockery of the visa application process. Why not let the embassies and consulates handle all the vetting and then immigration only needs to suspect something is up if they have a good reason to believe (or proof) that the applicant submitted a fraudulent application to receive a visa? Other countries vet quite considerably at the visa application stage and thus have little reason to waste time and resources at airport immigration - it's mainly when tourist visa holders are found to be coming for work that they get caught at immigration, which rarely seems to be the case in Thailand.

If you had read the prior stories about who was not allowed entry they recieved their visas from neighboring countries. If you get your visa in your home country more than likely never a pip when you come in. The people at immigration are not idiots as many here would have you believe they can look at your passport and figure out what you are up to. Yes sometime they get it wrong but I would say most of the time they get it right.

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

No not really S/M tourist visa. Could use them and come and go as he wanted. 

I'd say that was limited options.

 

A Non Imm O ME or 0-A Visas would suit his needs, but he doesn't qualify for either, which is why I stated his options were limited.

[overherebc]

18 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

No not really S/M tourist visa. Could use them and come and go as he wanted. 

No-one is arguing that point.

My point is that a 10 year multi for UK is/was around 40,000 baht /1200$ with no border runs/extensions required after a certain number of days and no requirement to show cash on arrival in UK. How much is a 10 year Elite in Thailand?

He does his 4 or 5 visits a year VE and carries the cash.

[tonray]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

No-one is arguing that point.

My point is that a 10 year multi for UK is/was around 40,000 baht /1200$ with no border runs/extensions required after a certain number of days and no requirement to show cash on arrival in UK. How much is a 10 year Elite in Thailand?

He does his 4 or 5 visits a year VE and carries the cash.

A sight bit more difficult to get a visa for the UK for a Thai than it is for Brit coming to Thailand. 

[overherebc]

41 minutes ago, tonray said:

A sight bit more difficult to get a visa for the UK for a Thai than it is for Brit coming to Thailand. 

Not really if you meet the requirements.

Thailand requires you show cash on arrival UK requires you show cash and reasons to return ( for obvious reasons ) before they issue the visa.

I have Thai friends who seem to be always going on holiday UK Europe. Husband wife and kids usually a couple of times a year, they have never mentioned problems re' getting visas.

Edited July 22, 2017 by overherebc

[gk10002000]

5 hours ago, mngmn said:

Have often seen people getting the third degree from Australian immigration even though they have valid visas.

Yep.  that tv show border patrol or whatever routinely showed people getting turned away even though they had the online electronic visa.  Jesus.  Shame for letting the people leave work, buy a plane ticket, fly 1/2 way around the world then be told go away.  Granted some circumstances may change from the time they got the visa, like some nits bring in drugs,or have very suspicious travel itineraries that changed.  But still a bit dodgy

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Not really if you meet the requirements.

Thailand requires you show cash on arrival UK requires you show cash before they issue the visa.

Apples and Oranges.

Two separate Countries, two separate Immigration rules.

Let's stay on the topic.

 

If you want to enter, stay or live in Thailand, it's irrelevant what happens in other Countries.

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Apples and Oranges.

Two separate Countries, two separate Immigration rules.

Let's stay on the topic.

 

If you want to enter, stay or live in Thailand, it's irrelevant what happens in other Countries.

I reckon some choose to ignore the fact as you say, two different countries and arrive in Thailand, at the airport in the same T shirt and shorts they left in 2 days before for their 5th or 6th SETV.

Thailand is, whether anyone likes it or not, a place where your appearance and attitude are judged, especially at the airports. Looking clean and tidy and carrying 20,000 takes very little effort.

[williamgeorgeallen]

20 hours ago, JayBird said:

They may be missing out, but probably not enough to Care about.

in a country where everything is for sale you would think they would be keen to sell visas.

[lkv]

55 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

in a country where everything is for sale you would think they would be keen to sell visas.

They are selling visas already, and they are also very keen. It's just they did not work out the correct pricing yet. Reality reflects it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by lkv

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

They are selling visas already, and they are also very keen. It's just they did not work out the correct pricing yet. Reality reflects it.

all the visas have a price however the best ones like the elite are the most expensive.  think a 6 month renewable visitor visa for 30 000thb would be well received. no idea why they dont do it.

[brewsterbudgen]

The "fee paid whether yes or no" rule is true for many/most consulates world-wide.  But note that Lao consulates usually don't take the money if they won't accept what you submitted. Based on the reports I have read, other consulates close to Thailand are similar - usually rejecting an application before accepting payment.
 
Those who do not have frequent and/or longer-term stays here in their immigration-history are not being asked to show the money - so not being inconvenienced.
Those who have stayed here longer term - even if they have been gone from Thailand for weeks or months since - are the ones being asked to show the money. 
Anyone with frequent and/or long-term stay will simply use points-of-entry that follow the law - not airports - and also carry the cash, as you pointed out. 
 
The difficult question, is someone who is "in the middle" - because the non-rules which trigger enforcement are not public and appear to be "invented" on the spot.  Based on reports, these rules may include "Too many Tourist Visas" (how many is too many over what time-span?) and "Over 180 Days Stay in a Year" (maybe even last year).  Because the rules are not published, it's just a guess whether some have "crossed the line" or not, which will force many to use land-crossings out of an abundance of caution.
 
In the world before ATM machines, showing "cash or travelers checks" on entry made more sense, because that is how most people financed their stays when traveling.  Nowadays, people self-financing their trip with carried-cash is a very remote possibility.  Given the law does not specify cash, enforcement of the rule should reflect how people obtain funds in today's world.  But, as I think most will agree, the question being asked isn't really a question of, "Do they have the money."  What we are seeing is: "We do not have 'officers discretion' to reject entry in Thailand by law, and we want to reject this guy who 'stays here too much', so which rule can we use to justify rejecting this guy?"

I would question whether there are "many more" examples of this. More like "few and far between".

[jeab1980]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

No-one is arguing that point.

My point is that a 10 year multi for UK is/was around 40,000 baht /1200$ with no border runs/extensions required after a certain number of days and no requirement to show cash on arrival in UK. How much is a 10 year Elite in Thailand?

He does his 4 or 5 visits a year VE and carries the cash.

But we are not in the UK are we so you cant possibly compare the two.  When in Rome as the saying goes. If hes that minted it wont kill him to get an elite or one of the new 5+5 visa's will it. Why do you keep harping on about him carrying the cash.?

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

But we are not in the UK are we so you cant possibly compare the two.  When in Rome as the saying goes. If hes that minted it wont kill him to get an elite or one of the new 5+5 visa's will it. Why do you keep harping on about him carrying the cash.?

Because carrying cash to show if required is the rule in Thailand. That's what this thread is about. He is doing nothing against the rules by coming 4 or 5 times a year for 3 or 4 weeks on VE and I am sure his appearance and manner help his acceptance into Thailand.

On his own spending habits I'm not qualified to comment. If he thinks doing his way is ok then who am I to argue with him.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

all the visas have a price however the best ones like the elite are the most expensive.  think a 6 month renewable visitor visa for 30 000thb would be well received. no idea why they dont do it.

A six-month renewable, without financial proof, for 30,000 baht would be too attractive for the illegal workers, such as low paid dive instructors. It would also probably kill off the Thailand Elite system, if you were allowed six month stays. Given that the six-month multiple entry tourist visa (available from home country only under all kinds of conditions and only 60-day stays) for about 5,000 baht was fairly recently introduced, a more attractive, no questions asked, visa available in the region is never going to happen.

[jeab1980]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because carrying cash to show if required is the rule in Thailand. That's what this thread is about. He is doing nothing against the rules by coming 4 or 5 times a year for 3 or 4 weeks on VE and I am sure his appearance and manner help his acceptance into Thailand.

On his own spending habits I'm not qualified to comment. If he thinks doing his way is ok then who am I to argue with him.

Nobody said he was doing anything wrong.

The apearance bit in my eyes has got sod all to do with it but people belive it somehow proves they have money and status so be it who am i to shatter thier elusions.

You started this chat with there is no visa for him then stated he didnt know if he wanted to be here anyway, if he is ok on exempt great hope he enjoys his holidays here.

 

[BritTim]

45 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

The apearance bit in my eyes has got sod all to do with it but people belive it somehow proves they have money and status so be it who am i to shatter thier elusions.

Speaking personally, I do not judge people much based on what they are wearing, but an unkempt appearance does bias me a little against people. The reality is that it is much more of a factor to your typical Asian official, especially those who are older. They see people approaching them unwashed, and in inappropriate clothing to be both disrespectful, and the sign of low class. Asians, in general, will care less about whether you have money and more about whether you are a "cultured" individual. If you are saying this should not affect the decision making of immigration officials, I agree with you, but the reality is that it sometimes does. In my humble opinion, it is folly to ignore this.

[sangtip2]

On 7/21/2017 at 11:40 AM, BritTim said:

People "abusing" the system by staying long periods in Thailand on tourist entries will likely be aware of the 20,000 baht requirement. The problem is that it will not occur to most regular tourists that Thai immigration is still living in the pre electronic age. Many countries want to ensure tourists can support their visit financially, but the need to withdraw large sums in cash, prior to travel, is Thailand specific, and will tend to come as a surprise, even to seasoned travelers.

When did 20,000 baht  get to be a "Large sum"    For someone coming to Thailand for a holiday  that amount should be pocket change.    I am sure you can show dollars or any other currency.   Don't think it has to be baht. 

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, sangtip2 said:

When did 20,000 baht  get to be a "Large sum"    For someone coming to Thailand for a holiday  that amount should be pocket change.    I am sure you can show dollars or any other currency.   Don't think it has to be baht. 

I know extremely wealthy individuals who consider cash for anything other than tips to be a quaint, eccentric custom. They would rarely be carrying more than about $100 in cash, though well capable of showing $100,000 at short notice is they knew it was necessary. Leaving that aside, many travelers these days prepay for many of their major more expensive items (such as hotels) and expect to use credit cards for almost everything else. Certainly, most would expect to spend more than $1,000 on a 10-day holiday in Thailand, but not necessarily in cash drawn in advance.

[sangtip2]

Just now, BritTim said:

I know extremely wealthy individuals who consider cash for anything other than tips to be a quaint, eccentric custom. They would rarely be carrying more than about $100 in cash, though well capable of showing $100,000 at short notice is they knew it was necessary. Leaving that aside, many travelers these days prepay for many of their major more expensive items (such as hotels) and expect to use credit cards for almost everything else. Certainly, most would expect to spend more than $1,000 on a 10-day holiday in Thailand, but not necessarily in cash drawn in advance.

Just a week ago there was someone on here with a big problem.  His credit cards didn't work.  What you gonna do ?  sleep in the street.  It is stupid to travel without some money.

[jeab1980]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Speaking personally, I do not judge people much based on what they are wearing, but an unkempt appearance does bias me a little against people. The reality is that it is much more of a factor to your typical Asian official, especially those who are older. They see people approaching them unwashed, and in inappropriate clothing to be both disrespectful, and the sign of low class. Asians, in general, will care less about whether you have money and more about whether you are a "cultured" individual. If you are saying this should not affect the decision making of immigration officials, I agree with you, but the reality is that it sometimes does. In my humble opinion, it is folly to ignore this.

Its bloody hard having had a 17hr journey sometimes longer to walk of a plane looking like James Bond. When i was on holiday then things like shaving went out of the window. Never yet seen an iron on a plane or a shower in the stalls.

Yes you can throw a bit of water over your face and use a bitbof roll on deodarant you have in your hand luggage. Save that unless you strip off on the plane and the layover. Your clothes are going to be the worse for wear. We are who we are. I have never had a problem being unshaven or as you say unkempt after a flight

The basic problem is if you live here on the wrong visa's plain and simple. 

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, sangtip2 said:

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I know extremely wealthy individuals who consider cash for anything other than tips to be a quaint, eccentric custom. They would rarely be carrying more than about $100 in cash, though well capable of showing $100,000 at short notice is they knew it was necessary. Leaving that aside, many travelers these days prepay for many of their major more expensive items (such as hotels) and expect to use credit cards for almost everything else. Certainly, most would expect to spend more than $1,000 on a 10-day holiday in Thailand, but not necessarily in cash drawn in advance.

Just a week ago there was someone on here with a big problem.  His credit cards didn't work.  What you gonna do ?  sleep in the street.  It is stupid to travel without some money.

Have you ever heard of Western Union? It is a modern service, available almost anywhere in the world, that allows someone to wire you cash within minutes from any part of the world in the unlikely event that none of your credit cards work, or you are mugged, losing your wallet with all your cash and credit cards. It is worth learning about if the service is new to you. It has alleviated many of the concerns those traveling used to have (though the old precaution of travelers checks with the receipt kept in a separate place is still occasionally used by some).

[sangtip2]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

Have you ever heard of Western Union? It is a modern service, available almost anywhere in the world, that allows someone to wire you cash within minutes from any part of the world in the unlikely event that none of your credit cards work, or you are mugged, losing your wallet with all your cash and credit cards. It is worth learning about if the service is new to you. It has alleviated many of the concerns those traveling used to have (though the old precaution of travelers checks with the receipt kept in a separate place is still occasionally used by some).

Yeah  I know about western union and it is so much easier to just take some money out of your pocket if you need it quick.  Last comment. 

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, sangtip2 said:

When did 20,000 baht  get to be a "Large sum"    For someone coming to Thailand for a holiday  that amount should be pocket change.    I am sure you can show dollars or any other currency.   Don't think it has to be baht. 

Absolutely. It can be in any major currency.

It only becomes a large sum if you're working illegally for 20,000 baht a month.

If you want to survive on a shoestring and not conform to the rules in Thailand then don't complain when you're caught out and end up in the do-do.

When you try to enter Thailand looking like as my RSM used to say a bag of sh-t with a string tied around the middle and can't show 20,000 baht, on your 5th or 6th tourist visa expect to be questioned and possibly denied entry, and, don't complain when it happens.