"Thais ripping up their history" - local historian complains about work being done at historic cave

[webfact]

"Thais ripping up their history" - local historian complains about work being done at historic cave

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

PHETCHABURI: -- A Thai historian in Phetchaburi has criticized work being carried out at the historic cave of "Khao Luang" that dates back to the time of King Rama IV in the nineteenth century.

 

Lorm Phengkaew led a delegation of experts to inspect work that is being carried out at the cave over the next few months after

complaints were received from tourists about wanton destruction of Thai history.

 

Lorm and his team found that the contractor, who is being paid more than 16 million baht for the work due to be completed in December, had ripped up all the historic bricks from the floor.

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

Lorm said that while some of the surface was in need of repair and had to be replaced much of it could be renovated and repaired. He said that the contractor had just removed it all and tossed the Thai history into a pile.

 

"It is destruction of the past," he told Thai Rath reporters.

 

That is him pointing at the bricks that would be the best part of 200 years old.

 

Local experts are planning to contact the Fine Arts department to complain about the work being carried out.

 

Source: Thai Rath

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-07-21

[Airbagwill]

It is a tragedy.... Vandalism pure and simple.

Successive governments in Thailand have displayed massive ignorance and indifference when it comes to REAL national heritage, preferring to promulgate a dumbed down jingoistic sugary Robin Hood type of popular myth instead.

This, together with their disregard for their natural heritage, is slowly strangling what could be such a beautiful country.

The authorities who profess to be guardians of Thai culture and heritage should hang the heads in shame and then learn their country's proper history.

[DM07]

That's not history!

History is things you can lie about, to make Thailand look better than it is!

Who cares for caves!

 

[ben2talk]

11 minutes ago, DM07 said:

That's not history!

History is things you can lie about, to make Thailand look better than it is!

Who cares for caves!

 

This isn't actually 'rewriting history', it's simply removing dirty old history to pave way for progress (probably concrete, or maybe some new tiles made in China).

 

In the history of history there have been many successful accounts of history being rewritten successfully. There are also many accounts that never came to life.

 

Thailand is currently busy rewriting it's 1932 history to pave the way back to the dark ages.

[JAG]

A few years ago I read a history of Thailand. I can,t remember the exact title, it was a scholarly time, and quite heavy going, not many laughs, but I persevered as I was living here.

Now looking at the history my 12 year old daughter is taught at school, I realise exactly how much importance Thai's, or rather Thailand's leaders attach to history.

None.

[edwinchester]

They were only old and cracked tiles, the new ones from Homepro will be much nicer.

[jaywalker]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

The authorities who profess to be guardians of Thai culture and heritage should hang the heads

....in a noose.

[cmsally]

The word "contractor" says it all. This is not contract work, it is work that should be done by or done under close supervision of the Fine Arts Dept. I suggest some "reeducation" of the Fine Arts officials. Can start by having them personally piece together and re-lay the original tiles. They might be a bit more careful after that.

[Lupatria]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

"Thais ripping up their history"

Tzzzzzzzzz for a moment I thought this turns out to be an article about Thai school books.

[hansnl]

3 hours ago, DM07 said:

That's not history!

History is things you can lie about, to make Thailand look better than it is!

Who cares for caves!

 

Utter nonsense, Sir.

[DM07]

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

Utter nonsense, Sir.

Aha!

As long as you do not provide more than snarky one- liners: I don't care, sir!

[kannot]

5 hours ago, DM07 said:

That's not history!

History is things you can lie about, to make Thailand look better than it is!

Who cares for caves!

 

not  only  that but every cave is  filled  with religious  nonsense totally ruining its natural features

[ujayujay]

3 hours ago, DM07 said:

Aha!

As long as you do not provide more than snarky one- liners: I don't care, sir!

....aaaaaand here we go, more utter nonsense.....kindergarten communication

[YetAnother]

9 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Thailand is currently busy rewriting it's 1932 history to pave the way back to the dark ages.

and seemingly doing it so well that the only people that can see it are non thais

[YetAnother]

9 hours ago, ben2talk said:

Thailand is currently busy rewriting it's 1932 history to pave the way back to the dark ages.

today's real thai leaders are a couple generations back so it should not be such a shock that they want to go back

[ben2talk]

12 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

and seemingly doing it so well that the only people that can see it are non thais

No, someone actually reported that a certain item went missing from Democracy Monument and was given very rough treatment.

 

The response 'we don't want any problems with this'.

 

First picture with flowers on April 2nd, next picture on April 8th taken by students.

[Graemej100]

No body cares. That is the tragedy.

[DM07]

....aaaaaand here we go, more utter nonsense:coffee1:.....kindergarten communication:cheesy:

So... your rebuttal would be?
The Thais actually fought bravely in the WW2 and were simply overrun by the Japanese and did not basically invite them in?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bangrak]

Don't worry, they will build a new one, much 'nicer', in concrete, with 'modern' features, like so many 'historic' Wats and other buildings...

As for the cave, which must go back many 100,000 of years before H.M. King Rama IV, in my view, it was already damaged, its 'authenticity' destroyed, by all the buildings and statues which were erected there and then, or is all that Buddhist clutter an obligatory part of every worthfull site and place in Thailand?

Considering that this grotto has been there in all its original beauty ages(!) before the Lord Buddha was born, don't, can't his (supposed!) followers show respect for the works of nature, ...in the way the Lord Buddha himself taught to?

This building contractor might be a numbnut, but for sure the people who ordered the job, and supervised it, are imbeciles. But, IMO, the 'iconoclasts' were the ones 'transforming' the grotto during H.M. Rama IV's reign, and when that 'Thai historian' isn't conscious of that, well, he shouldn't be teaching History (nor archeology!), even in Thailand!  

[bangrak]

6 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Plenty of Thai 'historical facts' are indeed entirely mythical.

 

The problem is if you tell the truth in Thailand you will be arrested and imprisoned at the worst and threatened and bullied at the very least.

 

I agree with you (never thought that could happen, LOL), very sad, but very true! The true, factual, 'History' of Siam/Thailand is still to be written, but... Have you ever been speaking about Historical facts with Thais? Noticed how they start whispering and look around for others not to be able to overhear the conversation? Many Thais do know quite some 'things', they seem to be scared to speak about openly though, why would that be ...? (And please don't come up with military, coup, etc., this goes on deeper, and way back)

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, ben2talk said:

No, someone actually reported that a certain item went missing from Democracy Monument and was given very rough treatment.

 

The response 'we don't want any problems with this'.

 

First picture with flowers on April 2nd, next picture on April 8th taken by students.

Couldn't you, please, stick to the topic? Enough to say about that, and History, without bringing in that medal 'stuff', which, by the way, IMO, 'commemorated', like the monument behind it, a fake 'revolution', which, still IMO, was a 'palace putsh' (another kind of 'coup') by old elites and a military cast following them, against the most 'social' King Siam ('Thailand' came later, in 1939, and was the 'invention' of a nationalist and, then, fascist dictator) has probably ever had. Dig for it, and you will understand how much the people you share the ideas of shoot themselves in the foot every time they refer to that event. But, I know, that's not the way it is described in the books the Thais are fed with...

[Stargeezr]

There are just some commenters that you should not argue with, as it hurts their feelings and they will

argue for much longer than it is worth.  The 200 year old bricks should be cleaned and reused on the cave floor.

Shame on the contractor for just tearing them up and piling them like they are so much garbage.

Geezer

Edited July 21, 2017 by Stargrazer9889
correction

[Orton Rd]

History is almost illegal here anyway, unless it fits in with the fairy tales promoted in Schools and on TV. Ask any Thai what year, never mind the date, that the Thai army capitulated to the invading Japanese and it will be lights out shutters down.

[Jeremy50]

37 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

History is almost illegal here anyway, unless it fits in with the fairy tales promoted in Schools and on TV. Ask any Thai what year, never mind the date, that the Thai army capitulated to the invading Japanese and it will be lights out shutters down.

Ask any Thai teacher the dates of WW2 or even the Vietnam War, and the response will be the same. 

 

[Dave67]

They are obviously not specialist cave renovators

[LomSak27]

8 hours ago, bangrak said:

Don't worry, they will build a new one, much 'nicer', in concrete, with 'modern' features, like so many 'historic' Wats and other buildings...

A decade or more back up north while constructing government office they ran into the old defensive walls of the town. This from a time they actually fought and been besieged by the Burmese and an outpost of one of those Kings they have made a movie about. However it was not saved or excavated. Nope it was pulled out, dumped and the building built. AT the time it was said  something like 'if we need it we can always come back and build another one'  and likely it will look better too. HooYa! 

[kannot]

9 hours ago, Dave67 said:

They are obviously not specialist cave renovators

is that on or  off the jobs  for folleners list?

[Dave67]

Just now, kannot said:

is that on or  off the jobs  for folleners list?

Yes restricted to Thais only, they have a natural gift for it

[Airbagwill]

22 hours ago, bangrak said:

Don't worry, they will build a new one, much 'nicer', in concrete, with 'modern' features, like so many 'historic' Wats and other buildings...

As for the cave, which must go back many 100,000 of years before H.M. King Rama IV, in my view, it was already damaged, its 'authenticity' destroyed, by all the buildings and statues which were erected there and then, or is all that Buddhist clutter an obligatory part of every worthfull site and place in Thailand?

Considering that this grotto has been there in all its original beauty ages(!) before the Lord Buddha was born, don't, can't his (supposed!) followers show respect for the works of nature, ...in the way the Lord Buddha himself taught to?

This building contractor might be a numbnut, but for sure the people who ordered the job, and supervised it, are imbeciles. But, IMO, the 'iconoclasts' were the ones 'transforming' the grotto during H.M. Rama IV's reign, and when that 'Thai historian' isn't conscious of that, well, he shouldn't be teaching History (nor archeology!), even in Thailand!  

History is worth preserving even if it was a disaster.  That's how we learn...here though rather than learn they have decided to repeat.

[ddavidovsky]

Good that somebody cares. Sentimentality is what will save us.

At Angkor they've been restoring some of the ancient pavements. It's like cosmetic surgery  - not only does it make the place  look bland, it kills its historic integrity. No problem with them piecing together piles of rubble as they did in the past,, but they're now actually trying to improve the genuine bits. Big mistake.