1 minute ago, aright said:

Although a long way off I feel this will surely happen and I don't reject it as a bad thing provided political and social control is not left in the hands of those who understand the new technology.

 

And how to exploit it as is happening already.

 

 

I agree. Which brings us back to Brexit. The EU have no time for popular democracy; popular democracy is anathema to an elite, unelected,  uncompromising, exploitative coterie. 

13 hours ago, aright said:

I agree. Which brings us back to Brexit. The EU have no time for popular democracy; popular democracy is anathema to an elite, unelected,  uncompromising, exploitative coterie. 

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Right, the EU is a fiddle too!

6 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Get your head out Bill...

Brexit is the dead cat bounce of the British Empire.

42 minutes ago, nausea said:

Brexit is the dead cat bounce of the British Empire.

 

It has the potential to be a lot of things. But it has absolutely zero to do with the Empire, which was gone before most of our current population were born.

On 02/11/2017 at 12:36 PM, SheungWan said:

I wouldn't be sticking Greece on my banners quite yet unless I was having a larf.

Greece is exactly where it should be a failure,it lied and cheated to get the Euro and the EU wanted as many countries to have the single currency that they believed them a major error,that's now understood as a German economist said "any country that imports porsches and exports ouzo is in trouble".That doesn't mean the Euro is in a more difficult position than any other currency or the EU is in any more trouble than any other trading block.the P.I.G.S. have had a hard lesson to learn let's see if UK plc learns their lesson.

It has been said that the UK will be like Greece without the weather. 

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Brexit is the dead cat bounce of the British Empire.

Brexit is a stillbirth with economic self-castration.

I note that our European brethren are whistling in the graveyard ever more furiously.

2 hours ago, adammike said:

Greece is exactly where it should be a failure,it lied and cheated to get the Euro and the EU wanted as many countries to have the single currency that they believed them a major error,that's now understood as a German economist said "any country that imports porsches and exports ouzo is in trouble".That doesn't mean the Euro is in a more difficult position than any other currency or the EU is in any more trouble than any other trading block.the P.I.G.S. have had a hard lesson to learn let's see if UK plc learns their lesson.

 

In view of the fact that Germany charmingly led Greece down the garden path to it's economic nightmare. that advice about Porsches and ouzo is rather after the event. If anyone doubting brexit was prepared to listen to a salutary tale, Greece is it.

On 11/2/2017 at 12:55 PM, Grouse said:

I think you will find AI, robotics and automation will do away with many many jobs including including "doers" particularly low level munchkins 

And Im sure high level ones too :)

8 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

And Im sure high level ones too :)

Indeed. Lawyers, Accountants, Estate Agents, Physicians, Teachers can all be replaced with expert systems. As an engineer, I'm protected. For now.

 

I think everyone is going to have to have a state income.

The basket case Greece was not the only country that fiddled the books and the ERM was ignored by several others*. The EU in its obsession for a bureaucratic takeover of Europe turned a blind eye to what went on.

Economically Germany has been the main winner, merely adjusting prices to cover the low exchange rate of the Euro compared to what the Deutschmark would now be.

You need to dig deep to find out what happened, as most reports brush over it.

 

*A clip from Wiki:

"As part of the EU treaty, all of the EU Member States are obliged to adhere to the Stability and Growth Pact (SGP), which as a framework to ensure price stability and fiscal responsibility, has adopted identical limits for governments budget deficit and debt as the convergence criteria. Due to the fact that several countries did not exercise a sufficient level of fiscal responsibility during the first 10 years of the euro's lifetime - ".  France was one.

 

I fail to see why all the doom mongers continue this rhetoric against the UK shaking free of the overbearing EU when it is no dead cat or still born, more a reborn lion cub soon to be released back into the world.

All the Armageddon predictions have proved wrong to date, and that can continue without internal sabotage.

The EU are shaking in their high heals about the loss of income, and will make negotiations (not that they are negotiating, just dictating so far) as difficult as possible in fear the whole House Of Cards will tumble.

It seems the remaoners are determined to ensure the UK fails and is forced to become a European State, relinquishing all power to mostly appointed bureaucrats in Brussels (and Strasbourg).

Two "little corporals" failed before don't forget.

 

So where is the sense in denying democracy?

It is not the future I want for my kids and grand kids...

 

Getting a visa or work permit is a small price to pay to travel to and from Europe to retain what was a long and bloody fight for an independent democracy in the UK.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The basket case Greece was not the only country that fiddled the books and the ERM was ignored by several others*. The EU in its obsession for a bureaucratic takeover of Europe turned a blind eye to what went on.

Economically Germany has been the main winner, merely adjusting prices to cover the low exchange rate of the Euro compared to what the Deutschmark would now be.

You need to dig deep to find out what happened, as most reports brush over it.

 

*A clip from Wiki:

"As part of the EU treaty, all of the EU Member States are obliged to adhere to the Stability and Growth Pact (SGP), which as a framework to ensure price stability and fiscal responsibility, has adopted identical limits for governments budget deficit and debt as the convergence criteria. Due to the fact that several countries did not exercise a sufficient level of fiscal responsibility during the first 10 years of the euro's lifetime - ".  France was one.

 

I fail to see why all the doom mongers continue this rhetoric against the UK shaking free of the overbearing EU when it is no dead cat or still born, more a reborn lion cub soon to be released back into the world.

All the Armageddon predictions have proved wrong to date, and that can continue without internal sabotage.

The EU are shaking in their high heals about the loss of income, and will make negotiations (not that they are negotiating, just dictating so far) as difficult as possible in fear the whole House Of Cards will tumble.

It seems the remaoners are determined to ensure the UK fails and is forced to become a European State, relinquishing all power to mostly appointed bureaucrats in Brussels (and Strasbourg).

Two "little corporals" failed before don't forget.

 

So where is the sense in denying democracy?

It is not the future I want for my kids and grand kids...

 

Getting a visa or work permit is a small price to pay to travel to and from Europe to retain what was a long and bloody fight for an independent democracy in the UK.

 

 

 

 

When it all went pear shape in Greece they still wanted to stay in the EU and there was no call to bring back the drachma,pretty much all the countries of the EU have seen their life's improved enormously since they joined, they saw their currencies go up and down same then as the $£€¥§ do now.Its the English who have been the problem they won't miss us.

1 hour ago, adammike said:

When it all went pear shape in Greece they still wanted to stay in the EU and there was no call to bring back the drachma,pretty much all the countries of the EU have seen their life's improved enormously since they joined, they saw their currencies go up and down same then as the $£€¥§ do now.Its the English who have been the problem they won't miss us.

 

Greece can't leave. Their debt enslaves them to the EU.

'No more Brexit soap opera': 60% of UK firms are ready to trigger contingency Brexit plans and move staff within months

• 60% of firms will trigger contingency Brexit plans if the government fails to secure a transition deal by March 2018, according to a new survey
• That could involve moving staff or slowing recruitment.
• "Currently, we see one major challenge – not Brexit itself ... But the approach to Brexit," CBI president Paul Drechsler will warn on Monday.

http://www.businessinsider.com/no-more-brexit-soap-opera-60-of-uk-firms-are-ready-to-trigger-contingency-brexit-plans-and-move-staff-within-months-2017-11

8 hours ago, adammike said:

When it all went pear shape in Greece they still wanted to stay in the EU and there was no call to bring back the drachma,pretty much all the countries of the EU have seen their life's improved enormously since they joined, they saw their currencies go up and down same then as the $£€¥§ do now.Its the English who have been the problem they won't miss us.

Brexit is a terrible idea. An even worse one is the Euro. It took the Eurozone years longer than the UK, or other non euro nations in Europe to recover. And that recovery is still pretty dismal for nations like Spain, Portugal, and Greece.   A monetary union without fiscal union makes no sense. 

The so-called bailout of Greece was really a bailout for Deutschesbank. It would have been exposed to a debt that would have bankrupted it many times over had Greece been allowed to default.

8 hours ago, adammike said:

When it all went pear shape in Greece they still wanted to stay in the EU and there was no call to bring back the drachma,pretty much all the countries of the EU have seen their life's improved enormously since they joined, they saw their currencies go up and down same then as the $£€¥§ do now.Its the English who have been the problem they won't miss us.

 

Of course Greece wants to stay in the EU.

 

It is a net gainer. It pays in a small amount and gets far more back in return.

 

Here is a link to Wikipedia about the EU Budget, how it is worked out, how countries pay in and how much they get in return.

 

Granted it is for the 2014 budget but it is still quite an interesting read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

 

 

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Of course Greece wants to stay in the EU.

 

It is a net gainer. It pays in a small amount and gets far more back in return.

 

Here is a link to Wikipedia about the EU Budget, how it is worked out, how countries pay in and how much they get in return.

 

Granted it is for the 2014 budget but it is still quite an interesting read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

 

 

What you remarkably failed to note is that in 2014 what Greece netted amounts to 2.23 percent of its gross national income. Not exactly a huge sum. 

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What you remarkably failed to note is that in 2014 what Greece netted amounts to 2.23 percent of its gross national income. Not exactly a huge sum. 

Something they never had....

Just now, transam said:

Something they never had....

???

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Greece can't leave. Their debt enslaves them to the EU.

It was the people of Greece who wanted to stay in the EU and keep the Euro.sure there is opposition to the EU in all countries but it's only the English and Welsh who have a majority of leavers, and that's not a big majority like I say Brexit better be a success or it will destroy the Tories, that's why I want it to fail.

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What you remarkably failed to note is that in 2014 what Greece netted amounts to 2.23 percent of its gross national income. Not exactly a huge sum. 

You can spend that on a night in a walkingstreet gogo.

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

What you remarkably failed to note is that in 2014 what Greece netted amounts to 2.23 percent of its gross national income. Not exactly a huge sum. 

 

I did not note who got what in 2014 EU budget because it was in the link for anybody to look at for the EU countries at the time.

 

Nor did I point out the difference between total national contributions and the average net contributions.

 

In the case of Greece from the figures the TNC was 14,454,000,000 Euros and the ANC was 4,706,000,000 euros which is nearly a whopping 10 billion euros difference.

 

Still not a huge sum do you think?

 

Still its only taxpayers money in the end anyway.

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

???

Someone else's money to bolster their tax evasion......

1 minute ago, transam said:

Someone else's money to bolster their tax evasion......

I was going to ask you if you realize that this makes no sense but then the explanation occurred to me about why that would be a futile question.

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

I was going to ask you if you realize that this makes no sense but then the explanation occurred to me about why that would be a futile question.

10 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Greece can't leave. Their debt enslaves them to the EU.

Not so. Always an option for Greece to default, exit the EU and return to the Drachma. At the time when the Syriza government was trying a shakedown of the EU, there eventually came a Dirty Harry moment (feeling lucky punk?) and the Greek government caved.