TM30 explained for landlords and tenants

[BigT73]

6 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Just because a law is either not enforced, or visibly ignored, it doesn't mean the law has been removed from existence.

 

Time will tell how many people end up with TM30 and if the Passport law is changed or not.

 

Your own counties government website often has useful information on it with regards to many specific countries and their advice.

 

I am only telling people to take a look at the situation rather than ignoring it.

I think you are overthinking things who would enforce this?? RTP is just intersted if I have licence helmet etc.  Immigration wouldnt have the resources. If immigration ever stopped you, you would have the opportunity to go with them back to your home to show them your docs, they wouldnt arrest you on the spot, the tourist backlash would be huge.  It would be like the no sitting in back of pickups and how did that pan out?  

[Timebandit]

Chonburi says "if you change address from previous".

Edited June 7, 2018 by Timebandit

[sam neuts]

2 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

I think you are overthinking things who would enforce this?? RTP is just intersted if I have licence helmet etc.  Immigration wouldnt have the resources. If immigration ever stopped you, you would have the opportunity to go with them back to your home to show them your docs, they wouldnt arrest you on the spot, the tourist backlash would be huge.  It would be like the no sitting in back of pickups and how did that pan out?  

I am not saying it would be enforced only that the law exists

[Kerryd]

4 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

What would the reaction on this forum be if the headline was worded to say foreigner instead of Brit?

As the headline reads "TM30 explained for landlords and tenants"
I can't see how the reaction would be any different as there is no mention of "foreigner" or "Brit" in it.

 

Perhaps you posted in the wrong thread ? ?

[WorriedNoodle]

19 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

TM 30 must be done by landlord, foreigner is not responsible for TM30. As you can´t own any land you cannot own a property, only a Condo, where the condo management has to do it. It is clear written in the law, how is responsible

I own a condo and did TM30 and TM28 at same time myself to Chaeng Wattana by post without any issues - they signed the receipt parts of the forms. Condo management not involved.

[BigT73]

 

12 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I am not saying it would be enforced only that the law exists

Scare mongering doesnt help, If everyone started to carry passports and lost or damaged them, the effort to replace them would be bigger then if you were stopped by imigration in the first place, so until its on the news none of what you are saying really applies.

[sam neuts]

My next forum discussion is called.

 

""Have you paid your Building & Land Tax in Thailand?""

 

Thailand charges Building and Land Tax on property that is not the primary residence of the owner.

 

(e.g a second home, a property that is rented out by the owner, or a property that is used by a foreigner but owned by a/his company).

 

In case the property is owned by a company, Building and Land tax must be paid, irrespective whether rent is paid to the company or income is received by the company.

 

Building and Land Tax shall be collected at the rate of 12.5% of the yearly rental according to the lease agreement or the annual value assessed by the Land Department, whichever is higher.

 

Owner occupied properties are exempt from Building and Land tax (for the first property). Remember you are not the owner if your property is in a company name. The company is the owner.

 

This tax should be paid before the end of February each year to the local Municipality and it is the responsibility of the owners to pay Building and Land Tax.

 

I am sure there will be some interest.

 

Please ask at your City Hall as you maybe surprised.

[andre47]

21 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

I have been on a retirement extension for years, went in today to renew and was fined for not filling out this TM30, your time will come I expect

Where did this happen?

[Madgee]

Oh wise one, please send me your new (yet to be published) booklet on 'How To Be Legal In Thailand'. 

I'm hoping you select me as a vivid reader of TV, to get a sneak preview copy for the once in a lifetime price of 500baht!

 

Oh, BTW. I don't want to rock the boat but you don't have to be a business to register a TM30 online. (I will let you know my sources later when I'm not so busy). 

Thank you so much.

 

[jackdd]

53 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Definitely not trolls as far as I know. We are spending money on research, and time preparing lots of useful information. If people don't want to read it. I have no objection.

The confusion is from the law, not from us.

If you want to discuss laws you should spend more of your time with the laws directly instead of news with confusing and irrelevant informations made to get as many hits as possible

[sam neuts]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you want to discuss laws you should spend more of your time with the laws directly instead of news with confusing and irrelevant informations made to get as many hits as possible

I want you to discuss laws, not only me.

 

Its a discussion.

[sam neuts]

12 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Oh wise one, please send me your new (yet to be published) booklet on 'How To Be Legal In Thailand'. 

I'm hoping you select me as a vivid reader of TV, to get a sneak preview copy for the once in a lifetime price of 500baht!

 

Oh, BTW. I don't want to rock the boat but you don't have to be a business to register a TM30 online. (I will let you know my sources later when I'm not so busy). 

Thank you so much.

 

Perfect.

 

Thanks. Love to get new information for the discussion.

[sam neuts]

There will be no charges for the information that we are happy to provide .

 

Now, if you are looking for help and information in the future for FREE.

 

YES you will see us for sure.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

[sam neuts]

39 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Oh wise one, please send me your new (yet to be published) booklet on 'How To Be Legal In Thailand'. 

I'm hoping you select me as a vivid reader of TV, to get a sneak preview copy for the once in a lifetime price of 500baht!

 

Oh, BTW. I don't want to rock the boat but you don't have to be a business to register a TM30 online. (I will let you know my sources later when I'm not so busy). 

Thank you so much.

 

Any information or help we offer is FREE

 

Definitely not "oh wise one". I was still learning how to use QUOTE on T.Visa a few hours ago

 

Happy to add your updated info to our project.

 

Thanks

[BritTim]

This is one of the silliest topics I have ever seen on TV. Most of the information has been discussed at length on TV before. On TM30, the conclusion is simple: only your local immigration office can tell you their latest rules. Quoting the Immigration Act Sections 37 and 38 is a waste of time because the law as stated there is not applied anywhere in Thailand in full. In some places, it is not enforced at all. On carrying of passports, there is no law. There is a law saying you must carry acceptable proof of identity, but this does not necessarily need to be your actual passport.

 

The only new twist is that immigration on exit will, supposedly check that all necessary TM30 notifications have been done. The only way this would be possible is by immigration having a record for all your movements within Thailand. Perhaps, they are going to insist that all foreigners wear those tracking bracelets that are used for prisoners out of bail. Excluding this, it would be impossible for immigration to know where you might have stayed without any TM30 notification having been done. Now, let's say immigration magically do know everywhere you stayed, and find that no TM30 notification has been done. How do they know, at this point, whether the foreigner had any responsibility for the TM30? Are they going to lock the foreigner up while they find out why a hotel did not report the presence of the foreigner on a particular day (which according to the law would be required if the stay was 25 hours, but unnecessary for a 23 hour stay)?

[chrisinth]

3 hours ago, sam neuts said:

How about these ones.

 

3  years ago Pol.Col. Thanasak confirmed the following:

1. By law, all tourists and expats nationwide are required to carry their original passports with them at all times. There is no exception to this. Failure to carry your original passport may result in a 2,000 THB fine. The reason behind this is that Immigration needs to keep track of overstayers and foreign criminals who may be staying illegally in the country.

2. The information provided at an Immigration meeting yesterday was unclear. The correct information, which has always been the case, is that no other forms of identification are acceptable. This includes any other form of photo ID, such as a Thai/foreign driving license or a photocopy of your passport.

3. Immigration does not provide any kind of ‘stamp’ verification on a photocopy of a passport as announced at the meeting yesterday. Therefore, you are required to keep your original passport with you at all times as per point #1 above.

 

&

 

2016 BANGKOK:-- Police have called on foreigners to carry their passports with them at all times in order to help officers crackdown on transnational crime.

On Friday evening, officers from Lumpini and Thonglor police raided entertainment venues and set up two police checkpoints in order to ensure that foreigners were carrying either their original passport or a photocopy with them.

The operation led by Pol. Lt. Gen Sanit Mahathavorn, Metropolitan Police Commander, saw raids on 15 entertainment venues.

Pol. Lt. Gen Sanit also revealed that passport control checkpoints were set up outside the Grace Hotel, Soi Nana and the Asoke Montri intersection.

 

Take a look at the UK government website too.

 

I can see you like to keep busy.

 

And don't be too serious. Its only a discussion group.

 

More up to date stuff available. If you cant find it.

Your proof of law that foreigners need to carry their passports at all times slightly contradicts itself even in your copy & paste facts above.

[sam neuts]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This is one of the silliest topics I have ever seen on TV. Most of the information has been discussed at length on TV before. On TM30, the conclusion is simple: only your local immigration office can tell you their latest rules. Quoting the Immigration Act Sections 37 and 38 is a waste of time because the law as stated there is not applied anywhere in Thailand in full. In some places, it is not enforced at all. On carrying of passports, there is no law. There is a law saying you must carry acceptable proof of identity, but this does not necessarily need to be your actual passport.

 

The only new twist is that immigration on exit will, supposedly check that all necessary TM30 notifications have been done. The only way this would be possible is by immigration having a record for all your movements within Thailand. Perhaps, they are going to insist that all foreigners wear those tracking bracelets that are used for prisoners out of bail. Excluding this, it would be impossible for immigration to know where you might have stayed without any TM30 notification having been done. Now, let's say immigration magically do know everywhere you stayed, and find that no TM30 notification has been done. How do they know, at this point, whether the foreigner had any responsibility for the TM30? Are they going to lock the foreigner up while they find out why a hotel did not report the presence of the foreigner on a particular day (which according to the law would be required if the stay was 25 hours, but unnecessary for a 23 hour stay)?

I think the importance of the Hotel Act is much more interesting, but people still seem to like talking about TM30.

 

I am as surprised as you.

 

Computer systems throughout Thailand and government are currently being upgraded for the new digital push though. Lots of articles about that too if people do the research.

 

Of course it will take time and no-one is going to jump on you and arrest you. Just things are changing.

 

Now the Hotel Act is another story if you read into it. Very interesting.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A off topic post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

And another one. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

Edit: And now comments on moderation.

[sam neuts]

4 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Your proof of law that foreigners need to carry their passports at all times slightly contradicts itself even in your copy & paste facts above.

That is the point.

 

Where is the clarity?

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, sam neuts said:

That is the point.

 

Where is the clarity?

According to all your posts before it was clear to you that there is a Thai law which says you have to carry it, but somehow you still couldn't name it.

[CMBob]

59 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I am not saying it would be enforced only that the law exists

The problem with your first post, the one that started this (so far) 9 pages of questioning and partial alarm, is that you posted information that likely relates only to the Immigration office in your particular province while inferring it applied to everyone everywhere.   Had you said that this was happening only in your province and then accurately added that you don't have a clue if other provinces are enforcing the law the same way, you would have avoided some of the grief you've been shoveled.

 

What's being enforced at the Immigration office in your province is not the same as the Immigration offices in other provinces.  For example only (this information applies ONLY to Chiangmai Immigration), enforcement is only happening with respect to any TM30  if one needs an extension of some type (e.g., no enforcement when doing 90-day reports), no updating is required unless one leaves Thailand and returns to the same address (if returning to a new address, of course the whole TM30 filing requirements start over again), and updating can be done within 4-5 days of returning to the country (they're not currently strictly enforcing the 24-hour rule). 

[sam neuts]

1 minute ago, CMBob said:

The problem with your first post, the one that started this (so far) 9 pages of questioning and partial alarm, is that you posted information that likely relates only to the Immigration office in your particular province while inferring it applied to everyone everywhere.   Had you said that this was happening only in your province and then accurately added that you don't have a clue if other provinces are enforcing the law the same way, you would have avoided some of the grief you've been shoveled.

 

What's being enforced at the Immigration office in your province is not the same as the Immigration offices in other provinces.  For example only (this information applies ONLY to Chiangmai Immigration), enforcement is only happening with respect to any TM30  if one needs an extension of some type (e.g., no enforcement when doing 90-day reports), no updating is required unless one leaves Thailand and returns to the same address (if returning to a new address, of course the whole TM30 filing requirements start over again), and updating can be done within 4-5 days of returning to the country (they're not currently strictly enforcing the 24-hour rule). 

Live and learn. First time I have ever posted on a Forum

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, sam neuts said:

One by one and no hurry as I have other things I am doing . But, I will answer.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/print/436133/

 

Not my only source but interesting as it involves Thai Visa

 

 

I should like to caution the readers that a false statement in a newspaper or any other form of publication, however often it is repeated, does not make such statement a law or a valid government rule or regulation.

[sam neuts]

1 minute ago, Maestro said:

 

I should like to caution the readers that a false statement in a newspaper or any other form of publication, however often it is repeated, does not make such statement a law or a valid government rule or regulation.

Sorry does that mean I shouldn't put info into the post that i have read. I have only just started on ThaiVisa and not sure of the rules.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, sam neuts said:

Sorry does that mean I shouldn't put info into the post that i have read. I have only just started on ThaiVisa and not sure of the rules.

You need to be sure of your facts as well.

Item. TM30's are not done in Bangkok. The city would sink under the weight of paper if they were.

Item. I've lived in Chiang Mai for 9 years now. Have never been asked to fill out a TM30. Have never been fined. Perhaps my landlord did it for me.

Item. As I understand it, the TM30 is only required for the principal place of residence in Thailand. Once that is lodged, other stays are irrelevant to Immigration.

Putting it bluntly, I think you are scaremongering.

[zaZa9]

12 hours ago, JAS21 said:

My son, wife and two children will shortly be here for three days and two nights and will probable never visit Thailand again ... we are in Nonthaburi ... do we need to inform anyone?? They will stay at our home ... Their passports will be British and Spanish ...Will they need to give our address to Immigration at arrivals...I assume that they will get a VOA here  ...they are heading for The UK

I wouldnt bother on that occasion ..

[sam neuts]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You need to be sure of your facts as well.

Item. TM30's are not done in Bangkok. The city would sink under the weight of paper if they were.

Item. I've lived in Chiang Mai for 9 years now. Have never been asked to fill out a TM30. Have never been fined. Perhaps my landlord did it for me.

Item. As I understand it, the TM30 is only required for the principal place of residence in Thailand. Once that is lodged, other stays are irrelevant to Immigration.

Putting it bluntly, I think you are scaremongering.

Problem is no--one seems to be sure of the facts.

 

I have lots of info and laws in Thai and translated, but where do you start when every law is contradicting itself and every member of authority who speaks changes the story.

 

I will try to be more specific on regions and other info but not sure why people are not looking for themselves as well.

 

Especially if every district is different.

 

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

TM 30 must be done by landlord, foreigner is not responsible for TM30. As you can´t own any land you cannot own a property, only a Condo, where the condo management has to do it. It is clear written in the law, how is responsible

It absolutely not like that!

It's not a condo management role to make TM30, and how could he do when he has no knowledge on who is living or renting the many private units of the condo.

It's clearly to the unit owner (or someone acting for him) to do so, but it's also the responsibility of the guest who rent to check that the TM30 is done.

[sandrabbit]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It absolutely not like that!

It's not a condo management role to make TM30, and how could he do when he has no knowledge on who is living or renting the many private units of the condo.

It's clearly to the unit owner (or someone acting for him) to do so, but it's also the responsibility of the guest who rent to check that the TM30 is done.

looks like the hotel law for condos and TM30 registration could meet head on ........