Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, mackayae said:

P. 4 does not answer the question. If you are referring to post 46 that link is dead. I have been following this thread since its inception and have not seen any reference to why this BBL change in policy at this time. Wondering if this is a result of the class action suit of 2014 in NY.

With effective from April 1, 2019, New York branch only process ACH with appropriate IAT format and all non-IAT transactions will be returned.     

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Bangkok Bank is simply now going to comply with a US Treasury/NACHA requirement that when funds are transmitted by ACH and the funds will leave the country, then they must be transmitted in ACH IAT format instead of ACH domestic format.   

 

Why did Bangkok Bank pick 1 Apr 19?  Well, that's not explained....maybe due to some audit report.....maybe due to a US Treasury/NACHA deadline we are not aware of....etc.   I expect the NY branch simply can't use whatever loophole they were using before which allowed this method for the last couple of decades.  Money flows/transfers outside the US have just tightened up....more visibly/info is now required.

 

That 2014 NY lawsuit by one individual was settled out of court within a year...without looking it up again it was settled for $25K award to the person who brought the law suit and his lawyers fees. Absolutely no change in Bangkok Bank fees due to that suit 3 to 4 years ago.  

 

 

[Pib]

Everyone might want to review below thread which is related to the Bangkok Bank policy change.  Talks International Direct Deposit (IDD) for Social Security payments, but it appears to use IDD for SS payments a person will need to open a "Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account" with a Thai bank.   We'll need to wait for more info/clarification on the SSA IDD program.

 

 

 

[longball53098]

Has there been any discussion of the restrictions for the FCD account? Such as no internet banking? The currrent SSA rules do not allow any atm cards or internet use and the account holder must appear in person to get the money from the account.

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

The currrent SSA rules do not allow any atm cards or internet use and the account holder must appear in person to get the money from the account.

There is no such SSA rule AFAIK - that rule is to protect Bangkok Bank as bank is responsible for payback of any funds paid after death.  

[longball53098]

Sorry but it is my understanding SSA was behind the restriction on the accounts at BBL bank for the ACH transfers. Cannot prove it and no matter. The main question I have is moving forward what will be the account restrictions for this IDD SSA payment?

 

Add: I understand that the new system will be for other banks as well and we do not have a crystal ball here. But my guess is that the SSA will have suggested restrictions to a bank that wants to accept the SSA IDD. What do other IDD countries do? The one that comes to mind would be the PI? I bet protecting from SSA fraud ther is a big deal

Edited December 2, 2018 by longball53098
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[Pib]

1 hour ago, longball53098 said:

Has there been any discussion of the restrictions for the FCD account? Such as no internet banking? The currrent SSA rules do not allow any atm cards or internet use and the account holder must appear in person to get the money from the account.

I haven't see any discussions...probably because the news is still relatively late breaking.  Hopefully over the next month or two the muddy water will clear.

 

As far as I know there are no SSA rules saying a person cannot receive his/her SS payment to a joint account, have internet banking, etc.  As you know if you have your SS payment going to a U.S. bank it can go to a joint account, you can have a debit card, you can have ibanking, etc.  My SS pension goes my US bank joint account.

 

However, when payments going to at least some foreign countries/banks, like Thailand/Bangkok Bank, the rules are different and AFAIK that's the bank protecting itself from the SSA clawing back payments made after the pensioners death because family/friends/etc., did not notify SSA of the pension death/barbecue at the local temple and a family member which might have been a joint account holder intentionally (fraudulently) decided it was best to allow the payments to continue to flow and be withdrawn.  What the hech, Uncle Sam is super rich...he'll won't miss a few dollars fraudulently being withdrawn and spent by a the pensioners Thai widow.   

 

Now maybe there is some "offline" policy/agreement (invisible to googling) between the SSA and the foreign bank as to what the account will allow.....an agreement that gives both the foreign bank and SSA a warm fuzzy any possible fraudulent transactions will be minimized.   

 

In the US if a pension croaks this/her death is quickly reported in many ways...hospital...police.... morgue...funeral home....family/friends....obituary...etc....so US govt agencies such as the SSA quickly find out and the pension payment stops.  Plus it's easy for a US govt agency to pull back money from a US bank using US laws. 

 

However, in many foreign counties the govt social network in reporting deaths is weak....a pensioner can die, be quietly barbecued at the local temple or just buried in the back yard, could be up to a year before SSA or other US govt pension paying agencies find out, and then begins the claw back of pension payment with a foreign bank....needing to deal with the laws/rules of that foreign countries if the foreign bank is resistive to the claw back.

 

The Thai bank don't want to be on the hook for the US govt recalling funds....I don't think they want the headaches....Bangkok Bank is like that and PI banks do the same thing for US govt Direct Deposit account.  Heck, when you look at the SSA IDD sign-up for foreign countries the forms even allow joint account....like below partial cut and paste from a typical IDD sign up form for a country.  However, that does not mean your foreign bank will allow such.

 

 

 

[JDGRUEN]

As far as SS monthly benefits, in my opinion, it is extremely easy to use an American Bank as the Direct Deposit bank for the SS monthly benefit payments. Then use a service such as TransferWise to move funds to one's Thailand bank account.  But some folks choose differently and trot on down to their BB branch and get their SS Funds.  After four going on five years doing this very thing no problems have arisen for me.

[JDGRUEN]

On 11/17/2018 at 11:05 AM, riclag said:

Does Transferwise only use cards issued in England or SEPA?

"We can only accept payments from locally issued cards, so for example GBPcards must be issued in the UK, EUR cards must be issued in the SEPA area etc. Like a bank transfer, the money must come from your own bank account. So, the name on your card must match the name on your TransferWise account".

Your comments and questions are far beyond my knowledge of this subject - don't know.

[riclag]

9 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

As far as SS monthly benefits, in my opinion, it is extremely easy to use an American Bank as the Direct Deposit bank for the SS monthly benefit payments. Then use a service such as TransferWise to move funds to one's Thailand bank account.  But some folks choose differently and trot on down to their BB branch and get their SS Funds.  After four going on five years doing this very thing no problems have arisen for me.

Transferwise requires a locally issued debit card from the UK .They don’t except my US debit card for transfers .Correct me if i’m Wrong

[JDGRUEN]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

Transferwise requires a locally issued debit card from the UK .They don’t except my US debit card for transfers .Correct me if i’m Wrong

TransferWise told me (an American) I could use TransferWise to transfer funds from my American based checking account using a Debit Card (as one option) if the Debit card was Visa or MasterCard endorsed.  Mine is a AMEX Debit Card - so no go. That is all I know.

[lucky2008]

Is anyone still using BOA to make ACH transfers to BBNY? 

 

I just looked at my local BB account app, and I see something that says "CREDIT FEDI B2B" Does anyone know what this means? 

 

Also if I want to transfer money using Transferwise, is there an option to send ACH International, or will I need to send it as a SWIFT come April 1st? 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by lucky2008

[lopburi3]

5 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Is anyone still using BOA to make ACH transfers to BBNY? 

 

I just looked at my local BB account app, and I see something that says "CREDIT FEDI B2B" Does anyone know what this means? 

 

Also if I want to transfer money using Transferwise, is there an option to send ACH International, or will I need to send it as a SWIFT come April 1st? 

 

Transferwise does not use either of those systems - they have bank accounts with local currency in all countries served and just make a credit and deposit from the local accounts.  If you really mean sending to BBL ACH International not using Transferwise there is no information on any US banks making such transfers for consumer accounts so would require SWIFT or another money transfer service.

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Transferwise does not use either of those systems - they have bank accounts with local currency in all countries served and just make a credit and deposit from the local accounts.  If you really mean sending to BBL ACH International not using Transferwise there is no information on any US banks making such transfers for consumer accounts so would require SWIFT or another money transfer service.

Thanks once again Lopburi3

 

This really sucks big time! After successfully using the ACH system for almost a year, I'll have to find a new way to get my money every month. 

 

Has anyone found out which bank(s) are able to send IAT formatted transfers from retail consumer accounts originating in US? 

 

Seems like Transferwise is a good option for many. I'm sure it been posted before, but can someone please outline how to make reoccurring monthly transfers into a Thai Bangkok Bank personal saving account?  I assume this deposit will show as an international transfer? I still need to be able to prove the money is coming from overseas to meet immigration requirements. 

 

My apologies if I'm asking questions which have already been answered before. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by lucky2008

[onera1961]

19 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Seems like Transferwise is a good option for many. I'm sure it been posted before, but can someone please outline how to make reoccurring monthly transfers into a Thai Bangkok Bank personal saving account?  I assume this deposit will show as an international transfer? I still need to be able to prove the money is coming from overseas to meet immigration requirements. 

Transferwise does not have recurring feature. Transfer from transferwise to Bangkok Bank account will be coded as FTT (International transfer). People have reported it is not coded as FTT for other banks. 

[soisanuk]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Transferwise does not use either of those systems - they have bank accounts with local currency in all countries served and just make a credit and deposit from the local accounts.  If you really mean sending to BBL ACH International not using Transferwise there is no information on any US banks making such transfers for consumer accounts so would require SWIFT or another money transfer service.

At time I started using Transferwise, I set it up to transfer funds to my Bangkok Bank account, the drop down menu showing Bangkok Bank included their SWIFT code.  All my transfers using Transferwise from my US bank to Bangkok Bank are shown by Bangkok Bank as foreign transfers on my online bank statement and passbook - I also receive my usual text message from Bangkok Bank that I have received a foreign transfer in Baht.  Several friend of mine have started using Transferwise in place of ACH transfers through Bangkok Bank's NY Branch.  They report that all are shown as foreign transfers into their account.

 

However, I have talked to an individual who sends from the UK to Kasikorn Bank and his deposits are recorded as domestic transfers. Based on his inquiries, his transfer is sent to a different Thai bank which then transmits it on to his Kasikorn Bank, thus they show it as a domestic transfer.

 

Another friend, who was receiving both his US Social Security and another private pensions payment to Bangkok Bank through the domestic ACH via Bangkok Bank's NY Branch.  Apparently, Transferwise has a method for both Social Security and other pensions to sent via ACH to a Transferwise Account which they then transfer on to his Thai bank.  As a result, his Social Security and other pension payments continue to be treated as direct deposits to a US Bank (ACH number and account number from Transferwise).  However, under this new method, he no longer has the restriction requiring he personally go toB angkok Bank to withdraw the Social Security funds.

 

Although the US Embassy in their comments about discontinuing their monthly income certification letters for Thai Immigration, noted that Social Security was adding Thailand to  its International Direct Deposit list, a friend checked into it with Social Security Office in Manila and was told that yes, Thailand is being added, it will be a few months before anyone can use IDD as there are still things to be done as part of process.

 

[lopburi3]

Transferwise to BBL is indeed listed as a foreign transfer but there is no fee involved at BBL as there would be on a foreign currency transfer.  It is a baht deposit from local account.  It is not a SWIFT transfer and amount would never be known until deposit was made - transferwise tells you on transfer request what will be deposited.

[lucky2008]

58 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Transferwise to BBL is indeed listed as a foreign transfer but there is no fee involved at BBL as there would be on a foreign currency transfer.  It is a baht deposit from local account.  It is not a SWIFT transfer and amount would never be known until deposit was made - transferwise tells you on transfer request what will be deposited.

Can you elaborate what you mean when saying "amount would never be known until deposit was made?" 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by lucky2008

[lopburi3]

On a SWIFT transfer of foreign currency that is converted to Baht in Thailand (for best exchange rate in almost all cases) the exchange rate used is that current at time of arrival in Thailand.  Transferwise provides an exchange rate that is almost always higher and it is locked when you request transfer - not when transfer is completed.

[JDGRUEN]

For those who may not be aware, TransferWise (TW) has a service called the Borderless Account.  This TW Borderless Account was initiated about two years ago and is now gaining traction rapidly.  This service goes far beyond simply doing funds transfer and exchange.

 

I encourage TVF members who want options in transferring funds to investigate this innovative service. The Borderless acts as a bank account having working relationships with banks in most Western countries. My main focus on this TW Borderless Account is as an American it is likely to be able to receive Social Security Direct Deposits by using an ABA/ACH routing number, a TW Borderless supplied Account Number and account type (checking or savings). The ABA/ACH routing number that Borderless uses is 026073150 is that of the Community Federal Savings Bank (located in New York state). Note: there are two other banks in the U. S. that work in relationship with TransferWise Borderless in one aspect or another.

 

I now have a TW Borderless Account completed but I have not yet done the setup for SSA Direct Deposit. It is my understanding that I do not submit my personal account information (name, SSN, etc) to the Federal Savings Bank (NY).  It seems that via TW Borderless when I complete the Borderless setup to receive SSA Direct Deposits - then I am simultaenously set up to receive SSA Direct Deposits channeled through the Federal Savings Bank.  I will find out for sure how this works very soon.

I suspect some members will not agree with my interpretation of how this is all going to work, therefore I ask those interested in this SSA DD transfer method using the TW Borderless Account to investigate and compare notes with me.

 

Thank You in advance.

 

https://transferwise.com/help/topic/1078409/borderless-account

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Has anyone found out which bank(s) are able to send IAT formatted transfers from retail consumer accounts originating in US? 

 

 

Despite what Bangkok Bank has claimed, I'm not aware of a bank or CU in the U.S. that's made IAT available to the normal retail banking or CU customer. And I've never seen anyone post any mention of such an IAT transfer capability here.

 

[Pib]

Update regarding Social Security IDD for Thailand.

 

 

[Thomas J]

On 7/27/2018 at 3:36 PM, 3421abc said:

I made a transfer from my credit union 2 weeks ago and worked normally. I am switching from ACH transfer anyway.

I set up a coinbase account to buy crypto coins in the US then transfer the coins to my bx account in Thailand and sell the coins there and get the cash out.

I did a trial transfer already and it was cheaper.

How do you set up an ACH transfer from a U.S. bank to a Thai bank.  I thought ACH was automated clearing house between U.S. banks only. 

[skatewash]

5 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

How do you set up an ACH transfer from a U.S. bank to a Thai bank.  I thought ACH was automated clearing house between U.S. banks only. 

Long answer:  https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

Short answer:  Bangkok bank used to accept ACH transfers from US banks which they would then transfer overseas to Thailand for a fee.  The US Government came to the conclusion that this was a loophole (not enough data was being reported to the US Government on each transfer) and told Bangkok Bank that they can only do this if they receive an ACH in IAT format (a format that contains the missing data).  The problem is that no bank in the US currently does this for their individual customers (they use an older format which is missing the now required data).  So, effectively the US shutdown this avenue of transferring money.  There's absolutely nothing Bangkok Bank can do to force US banks to change their format of how they send ACHs.  So, from April 1, 2019, Bangkok Bank can no longer accept ACHs sent in the old format (which are all individual bank customers can currently use), so their service will end for individuals in the US.

[skatewash]

There's some possibility that you could use the service until the April 1, 2019 cut-off, but it means you have to set it up, and as there can be insurmountable problems setting it up, you have to ask yourself whether it's worth the effort to do something that you will have to stop using April 1.

[Pib]

How do you set up an ACH transfer from a U.S. bank to a Thai bank.  I thought ACH was automated clearing house between U.S. banks only. 

You use the Bangkok Bank "New York" Branch (which is a licensed US bank branch) ABA routing number to route the funds thru them to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch. You must have an In-Thailand Bangkok Bank account to use this method. This method has been available for over a decade but come 1 Apr 19 this method goes away for a bank to bank ACH transfer unless ACH "IAT" format is used by the sending bank...no US banks uses the IAT format...must use SWIFT instead come 1 Apr 19.

[skatewash]

Pensions such as Social Security and the like may be able to continue using the Bangkok Bank service because they can send ACH with the new IAT format.  That's a different issue.  But you as a customer of a bank can't force your bank to send an IAT formatted ACH to Bangkok Bank and so Bangkok Bank can't help you.

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

22 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

How do you set up an ACH transfer from a U.S. bank to a Thai bank.  I thought ACH was automated clearing house between U.S. banks only. 

You use the Bangkok Bank "New York" Branch (which is a licensed US bank branch) ABA routing number to route the funds thru them to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch. You must have an In-Thailand Bangkok Bank account to use this method. This method has been available for over a decade but come 1 Apr 19 this method goes away for a bank to bank ACH transfer unless ACH "IAT" format is used by the sending bank...no US banks uses the IAT format...must use SWIFT instead come 1 Apr 19.

You can also use a service like TransferWise, but be aware if you need to prove the money that ends up in your Thai bank account came from an international source you may experience problems.  That is, if you are transferring money for an immigration-related reason, to qualify for an extension of stay, for example, then there are issues that you will have to investigate in using TransferWise because you may not be able to prove to immigration's satisfaction that the transfer originated internationally (it may appear as a domestic transfer within Thailand).

 

SWIFT transfers stand a better chance of leaving a clear indication that the transfer was international, but even here there can be concerns if your Thai Bank needs to use an intermediary bank to accomplish the transfer.

[srowndedbyh2o]

I have been told by someone that has an account at Bank of America that states that BofA can/will do IAT transfers (but they haven't actually done a transfer). I contacted BofA by phone (I don’t have an account at BofA) but could not get this info confirmed.

Anyone have a bank account with BofA that can confirm they can/will/have done the IAT transfers?

Thanks

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I have been told by someone that has an account at Bank of America that states that BofA can/will do IAT transfers (but they haven't actually done a transfer). I contacted BofA by phone (I don’t have an account at BofA) but could not get this info confirmed.

Anyone have a bank account with BofA that can confirm they can/will/have done the IAT transfers?

Thanks

 

I seen TV posters who use BoA and where middle of last year when those posters tried to setup a new ibanking transfer link to Bangkok Bank the BoA trial deposits used to validate the transfer links were rejected because because of not being in IAT format.   So, if BoA is sending their trial deposit in non-IAT format they would also be sending other ACH payment in IAT format.

 

Bangkok Bank actually began rejecting trail deposits around May 18 (last year) which was about a month or two after they announced their new policy for Apr 19 when all non-IAT transfers would be rejected.  I expect Bangkok Bank didn't want anymore ibanking transfer links to be setup (for those banks that use trial deposits to validate transfer links)...just creates more disappointed/pissed customers when Apr 19 arrived.

 

BoA also does business accounts.  For business account which often deal with international payment, paying for foreign product/service, paying foreign payroll, etc., BoA may indeed offer IAT.   But for retail accounts I haven't seen any bank/credit union that offers IAT for international transfers; instead they offer the cash cow (pricey) SWIFT method.

[Pib]

BoA has "corporate/business account products" like CashPro which can do ACH IAT transfers.  But for retail accounts BoA does not offer IAT....unless they very recently added that capability to retail accounts. But retail accounts before just had the option of ACH (domestic) and Wire (Domestic and International/SWIFT).  I use to have a BoA account up to about 5 years ago and all BoA offered for the years I was with them (mostly my pre-Thailand years) was ACH domestic and Wire.

 

http://corp.bankofamerica.com/documents/10157/668148/List_of_Banks_and_Services_for_Use_with_the_Cash_Management_Essentials.pdf

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pib