Yamaha Grand Filano Hybrid

[jackdd]

I just saw on the Yamaha website that Yamaha is also releasing an hybrid scooter: https://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/commuter/new-grand-filano-hybrid-2018/overview

The Yamaha system will probably not be much different from the Honda hybrid system.

As far as i undestand it the bikes have a small electric engine and when you accelerate the electric motor assists resulting in a higher acceleration.

But on the other side this means that more power have to be taken from the combustion engine to charge the battery for the electric motor.

So effectively such a bike should have a higher fuel consumption than a "normal" bike but should offers an increased acceleration. Am i right about this?

Edited July 29, 2018 by jackdd

[eisfeld]

A good question regarding the fuel consumption. I also tend to think that overall it might be higher unless it has regenerative braking which I don't think it has. Surely it must be less efficient to generate electricity and use that to accelerate than directly using the combustion engine to do that.

 

But what I want to say is that I'm impressed that Yamaha has put a real full color TFT on the bike at 62k with ABS. Yamaha is pushing scooters to a higher level and I applaud them for that. Handa hasn't managed to do that with their newest 1000cc adventure or naked bikes that cost ten times as much ?

Edited July 29, 2018 by eisfeld

[guzzi850m2]

It doesn't make sense the fuel consumption will be higher, I don't think so, if that's the case, what's the purpose with hybrid?

In hybrid cars the electric motor can run the car under certain speeds and the combustion engine is stopped but will start during heavy acceleration and at higher crusing speeds.

[ktm jeff]

With a bit of searching on Youtube , i found an English spoken advert. Yes , it has regenerative braking. And ABS. It would seem the starter motor becomes an electric "booster" motor during acceleration , the lithium battery being re-charged under braking , when the starter motor becomes a generator.  As most fuel is used under acceleration , fuel consumption should be even lower than before. Priced at just 62K its an extra 10K over the standard Grand Filano. Makes you wonder why Honda is charging an extra 38 K more for their version on the PCX. Makes you think doesnt it. The Filano  is also available for 55 K without ABS.

[eisfeld]

11 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

It doesn't make sense the fuel consumption will be higher, I don't think so, if that's the case, what's the purpose with hybrid? 

In hybrid cars the electric motor can run the car under certain speeds and the combustion engine is stopped but will start during heavy acceleration and at higher crusing speeds.

I think the big point of the hybrid is boosted acceleration, not really fuel consumption. But KTM jeff mentioned they have regenerative breaking so maybe it even improves fuel consumption. I think it would be super nice to have a 125cc bike which has the acceleration of say a 250cc (not this Grand Filano, just in theory).

[ktm jeff]

Small up-date. The electric booster motor works for up to 12 seconds during acceleration , where fuel consumption is highest , using power from the lithium battery  , which is then re-charged during braking. The standard Grand Filano is available at 52 K , with hybrid pack its 55.5 K , and adding ABS adds 6.5 K. So this makes the hybrid tech pack very good value . How much better the fuel consumption is , i dont know but 3.5 K buys 120 liters of fuel. I dont know how much extra hybrid boost / torque the engine receives during acceleration. In theory , with a bigger battery and booster motor , it could really accelerate. At least ABS is an option , lol.

[eisfeld]

34 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

3.5 K buys 120 liters of fuel

Reduced fuel consumption would then only be a selling point if it reduces it enough to recover 3.5k over its lifetime. I've seen an article that claims the PCX hybrid vs normal has an improved fuel consumption of less than 2.5%. Let's be generous and give the Yamaha 5% improvement. That means you need to ride your bike enough to consume 20*3.5k THB worth of fuel or 20*120km = 24000km to beak even. It's possible but means you really need to use your scooter quite a bite. If you use it for your daily commute of 10km, then it might make sense. If one uses the scoot for a weekly run to 7 then probably not. Not sure but I imagine the

 

I still think the improved acceleration can be the big selling point. With a bit bigger battery plus strong motor, they could make really nice scooters. Electric motors are relatively cheap and small. I think in the coming years we'll see some interesting developments in this regard and eventually electric will be the main part of the bike with a small combustion engine to charge it if needed. Can't wait for energy density to go up and prices down for batteries.

[ktm jeff]

I think the biggest advantage of this Yamaha hybrid system will be better acceleration. Not many will be concerned with the improved fuel consumption. The Filano already does 60 KM/L. BUT its a good step in the right direction , and at 3500 Baht , its not an expensive price boost , unlike Honda , who are charging ( pun intended ) an extra 38,000 Baht if they try to sell the PCX at 120,000 Baht. Knowing how Honda dealers rip you off , i wouldnt be surprised if they ask their rumored asking price of 130,000 Baht. No-one will ever save 38,000 / 48,000 Baht of fuel. Thats where the battery technology needs to improve in price , energy output and charging time.

[guzzi850m2]

No you guys are right, fuel consumption on those scooters are already pretty good, interesting about the acceleration.

I am pretty sure the replacement for my PCX will be a Yamaha.

I not not paying that much for a new pcx, no way.

Thankfully I am not a brand bitch but will always buy what I think is best value/good quality for my hard earned money.

[SabNosh]

Hello, can anyone help me ? I’m looking to buy the new grand filano hybrid/ABS,(in bulk)want to ship them out of Thailand,so any idea where to get wholesale price?thanks....

[eisfeld]

29 minutes ago, SabNosh said:

Hello, can anyone help me ? I’m looking to buy the new grand filano hybrid/ABS,(in bulk)want to ship them out of Thailand,so any idea where to get wholesale price?thanks....

Try Yamaha Thailand HQ and buy directly from the factory? I'm sure they'll listen if you buy a few hundred/thousand.

[SabNosh]

Thank you, I’ve tried with them and told me because i’m Not a dealer I can’t buy direct from them so advised me to buy from a dealer which will go up by 3000 bhat each bike.????

[SimonXXX]

Can anyone tell me where I can buy one in BKK? Any dealer that might have them in stock?

[guzzi850m2]

I am planning of getting the ABS version hopefully this week as replacement for wife's Scoopy i that is getting tired.

 

The Scoopy have done over 26k km and it has not been that good, small problems here and there during ownership.

 

Had a sit on the Filano and it is much better than the Scoppy that is just too small for me.

Today we gonna ride around in Pattaya and see what we can get on a trade-in on the Scoppy, hoping for 15K baht but are perhaps optimistic.

Keeping my trusted PCX150 for now, it's still runs smoothly despite being over 5 years old and I fell its an old trusted friend, so emotionally involved now, ha-ha.

 

When/if we get the Filano hybrid abs I will report back on my impressions

[canthai55]

My PCX gets 50km per litre

Why go to the extra expense, complication, and all the rest to save what ? A thimble full of fuel ?

Payback time as said above is a long time, and with cars, unless you trade in every year, battery replacement ain't cheap.

A solution looking for a problem in my eyes.

If I was to buy new today, NMax would be it.

[guzzi850m2]

5 hours ago, canthai55 said:

My PCX gets 50km per litre

Why go to the extra expense, complication, and all the rest to save what ? A thimble full of fuel ?

Payback time as said above is a long time, and with cars, unless you trade in every year, battery replacement ain't cheap.

A solution looking for a problem in my eyes.

If I was to buy new today, NMax would be it.

You can only buy hybrid models now as far as I am aware and yes the fuel savings will be marginal so not sure why they are doing it. New PCX is the same I believe, hybrid and no other options. 

This scooter is for my wife, she don't like the bigger models, if I was to get a replacement for my PCX I think I would get the Nmax as well.

Well trade-in was not good, one shop offered 12k and another 11K but realized that the Scoppy is 6 years old now. I have a Thai friend buying and selling scooters in Pattaya and he offered me 13.5K so he will come and pick it up tomorrow. He told me to get the Filano top model; key-less/ABS for about 5-6k more than standard model is not too bad.

[ktm jeff]

I think the prices are STD - 52K , HYBRID - 55.5K and HYBRID + ABS - 62K. Seems a bit of a price jump for ABS , but it does have a decent system , with dual discs. 

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

He told me to get the Filano top model; key-less/ABS for about 5-6k more than standard model is not too bad. 

Go for it. If only for the novelty value of playing with regen braking etc.

[guzzi850m2]

Well the ABS model also have key-less system, not that I care much about that.

 

My wife is not a very good rider so ABS can in some cases be very useful for her.

 

Will very likely buy it tomorrow.

[PolarAttack]

I think the prices are STD - 52K , HYBRID - 55.5K and HYBRID + ABS - 62K. Seems a bit of a price jump for ABS , but it does have a decent system , with dual discs. 

The GFH w/ABS is single disk up front and drum on the rear. ABS is only on the front. Prices do very between dealers. I just bought one before Christmas. And there’s a difference of 3000 baht. Also, some dealers offered a three-year warranty where others offered a five year warranty. I really thought that was set my Yamaha but the brochure says 5year/50,000 km. My dealer is the ABMotorbike here in BuriRam they also included two Yamaha helmets, first oil change, insurance, and I added the three year theft. I also added the windshield, my out the door price 64,800. Oh, it also came with the Welcome Package. A bag, jacket, T-shirt and keychain.


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[PolarAttack]

Interesting thing - Same bike, different light



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[papa al]

53 minutes ago, PolarAttack said:

Interesting thing - Same bike, different light



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Freaky !!

[PolarAttack]

Freaky !!

I came outside to find this scooter parked where I left mine. There is no way this was my Blue scooter. Sure enough it was.

 

 

 

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[papa al]

3 minutes ago, PolarAttack said:

I came outside to find this scooter parked where I left mine. There is no way this was my Blue scooter. Sure enough it was.

 

 

 

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double freaky

[VocalNeal]

Must be Midnight Blue?

[guzzi850m2]

We got the same colour, dark blue.
65k baht ride away, including 2 years burglary insurance.
We got 2 helmets and a jacket.
Nice little scooter if you are a small person but considering my size I stick to my Pcx150.
The LCD display is cool. You got opinions of readout one of following: avarage fuel consumption - current fuel consumption - Volt- trip counter - time.

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[ktm jeff]

8 hours ago, PolarAttack said:

The GFH w/ABS is single disk up front and drum on the rear. ABS is only on the front. Prices do very between dealers. I just bought one before Christmas. And there’s a difference of 3000 baht. Also, some dealers offered a three-year warranty where others offered a five year warranty. I really thought that was set my Yamaha but the brochure says 5year/50,000 km. My dealer is the ABMotorbike here in BuriRam they also included two Yamaha helmets, first oil change, insurance, and I added the three year theft. I also added the windshield, my out the door price 64,800. Oh, it also came with the Welcome Package. A bag, jacket, T-shirt and keychain.


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You will need a good key chain , looking at the size of that key !!. Freaky blue photochrome paint. Nice bike. Thanks for the info RE disc brakes.

[Damrongsak]

I like the Yamaha C3 Grand Piano a bit more.  The paint is a lot better.  As it should be for about $20,000 USD (used).

 

[neeray]

And you can do a lot more activities astride the piano (with lid down) than you can on the bike.

 

 

[ballpoint]

5 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

I like the Yamaha C3 Grand Piano a bit more.  The paint is a lot better.  As it should be for about $20,000 USD (used).

 

And you wouldn't want a keyless one.