BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[gaviny]

As long as the Aussie  embassy still issues a stat dec, go with it. It's just more convenient for me to keep the 800K in the bank. It's also a fall back if I needed money for emergency medical treatment.

Thats the $64 question ,my renewal is due in February, so I think to be on the safe side I will deposit the required amount into my Thai account no later then November and if February swings around and SD are no longer valid required I can use this option.So can this account be dormant for the 3 months leading to renewal?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[malagateddy]

Now , to add salt to the wound , a friend of mine uses the 800k method to secure his visa . The 800k not only has to be in his Thai bank account for 3 months but the account has to be seen as active with regular deposits and withdrawals with the account never below the basic 800k  amount . This was fairly recent .

Could your friend not for example " play " with his account.
Put in an extra 10000 baht..2 weeks later..withdraw 7000.
3 weeks later..deposit 5000..3 weeks later withdraw 3000 etc etc.??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[balo]

When 90% of the Thai banks refuse foreigners to open a bank account something does not compute here.  I think immigration should have a word with the banks first if they think this will not end in a complete disaster.  

 

 

[offset]

2 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Could your friend not for example " play " with his account.
Put in an extra 10000 baht..2 weeks later..withdraw 7000.
3 weeks later..deposit 5000..3 weeks later withdraw 3000 etc etc.??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think they are only looking to see what he lives on, they might even think he is working if he put money in his bank account every month unless it shows it from overseas

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Thats the $64 question ,my renewal is due in February, so I think to be on the safe side I will deposit the required amount into my Thai account no later then November and if February swings around and SD are no longer valid required I can use this option.So can this account be dormant for the 3 months leading to renewal?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Mine is dormant for 12 months prior, it never gets touched except for the very small interest add on. Never been asked what I actually live on as I have a separate savings account that gets added to spasmodically from my Aussie banks via a Swift transfer.

Edited October 11, 2018 by giddyup

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Anyone spending enough time on TVF over the years will have frequently seen the ads. that get posted by scammers, typically a flood of around a dozen at a time that get deleted by Mods. very quickly. One only has to look at one those ads. to know that any type of official documentation is on offer from passports, to degrees, to bank statements etc, including Embassy letters, there's nothing new about this whatsoever.

And it would appear that the BE is forcing some people to go down that route.

[mfd101]

57 minutes ago, maximuss99 said:

Through a Australian friend,its business as usual, at their Embassy.

And on their consular services website, it confirms this so ,with a updated to morning,  explanation of their services provided 

Make the most out of the above, and good luck????

Here's the quote from the OzEmb site today, in the 'Notarial Services' section:

 

"We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters comfirming their income from 1 January 2019.

 

"The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our national services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged."

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Here's the quote from the OzEmb site today, in the 'Notarial Services' section:

 

"We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters comfirming their income from 1 January 2019.

 

"The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our national services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged."

Fantastic. Why can't the British embassy do the same?!?

[mfd101]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Fantastic. Why can't the British embassy do the same?!?

As I understand it - from amongst the 1100 preceding messages - the British consular function is now so comprehensively 'outsourced' & geographically 'updated' that it would take a cultural & physical revolution for them to be able to receive their flesh'n blood citizens in person to have their signatures witnessed ...

[gdhm]

 Posted something on this 17 hours ago but it does not seem to have loaded to Thread for some reason.  So here is a new version ????

18 hours ago, White Tiger said:

I tried this about 5 or 6 years ago at Khon Kaen immigration and they told me my bank statements were unacceptable. They insisted on the Embassy proof of income letter. I was frustrated by this as I felt my bank statements gave them all the info they needed.  I got angry with them, embarrassed myself by losing my temper and calling them all names and walking out. I really lost it. Never been back to KK imigration since - felt sure there wouldn't be any point, although they may have forgotten me by now.

 

I can't remember whether I went back to the UK or Savannahket to get a new visa (I'm not getting my passport out now to check).  But I did get a new one, rather than an extension from immigration. Kept renewing my annual visa to avoid crossing swords with KK immigration again.  Then a couple of years ago a new immigration office opened in Chaiyaphum - my province so my new office, no more KK for me (hurray) - so I decided to go down the proof of income route, only this time was prepared with an embassy letter. 

 

Bottom line is, KK immigration wouldn't accept my bank statements - but it was a few years ago.

 

Extra point - my UK income goes into my UK bank accounts. I don't transfer it to Thailand. I make Thai ATM withdrawals directly from my UK accounts when I want to access that money (expensive I know, but my choice). So the bank statements that KK immigration didn't like were UK statements. But they're the same bank statements the Embassy uses to give me the proof of income letter, and the proof of income letter is not a proof that the income has been transferred to a Thai bank account. I don't think Thai immigration require to see proof that your income has been transferred to a Thai account. Certainly nothing I now give to Chaiyaphum immigration suggests or indicates that my UK income has been transferred to a Thai bank.

 

17 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Just to clarify, when I said "same statements" mine were Thai bank statements showing money coming in to a Thai bank every month.

 

1) I am on a Retirement Extension Visa and was under the impression that Thai Banks will not open Bank Accounts for Retirement Visa holders (as no work permit).

As far as I know there are no Bank statements issued for Thai Savings or Fixed Accounts.

 

2) If I switched from a Retirement Visa to a Marriage Visa (as there is NO WAY I can muster a further ฿560,000 by April 2019 from my UK State and Private Pensions) and I use the ฿400,000 in a Thai Savings or Fixed Account each year and never touch it,  surely Thai Imm. will ask for further proof of other income to show what I'm living on and where that came from. Currently my pensions go into a UK Nationwide BS Flex Plus account and I draw via ATMs I assume Thai Imm. would not be happy with that as proof.  

I know some here with money to spare will say "send pensions direct to Thai Bank account".  My answer to that is "I would waste a lot of money, poor Exchange rates and transfer fees by both UK bank AND Thai Bank. In fact one private pension I get form a major company refuses to transfer pensions outside of UK. I have tried to get them to do so but their rules are their rules. One Private pension provider uses American Express who set their own Exchange rates and I would have to pay a transfer fee plus the Thai Clearing bank and Thai bank fees. At least with Nationwide Flex Plus account I pay GBP13 a month and have ZERO conversion or transfer fees (Visa Europe exchange rates are used) and importantly I make ATM withdrawals based best/better Declkared Visa Europe exchange rates on the day).

 

3) I 100% accept Thai Imm. rules and requirements are what it decides, but I do not personally understand the problem with UK bank statements being used as proof of Income (and USE) because they show income was overseas and show Thai ATM or transfers to Thailand thus proving amount of monthly income form whom, and income transferred to Thailand or drawn form a Thai ATM etc. Is that not exactly what Thai Imm. wish to be certain about?

The Embassy Proof of income only shows what Gross of UK tax Pension income one gets (for income declared to the Embassy BUT the Letter does not prove if that is is drawn on for living in Thailand. My Bank Statements are detailed and clearly show pensions paid into account from Pension provider, and I can provide sight to THai Imm. of the Original/latest Pension details letter. On my Bank statements all ATM withdrawal details are very clearly. showing Location of ATM used, amount withdrawn in Thai Baht, Exchange rate used and amount in UK GBP.  One can even provide the original ATM receipt to support statement. 

 

I would be interested on others knowledge or experience on particularly 1) and 2)

Many thanks

 

[blackhorse]

Here's the quote from the OzEmb site today, in the 'Notarial Services' section:
 
"We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters comfirming their income from 1 January 2019.
 
"The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our national services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged."

Nice find. I guess the ozzies at least can breath a sigh of relief.

I'm still amazed the British embassy threw the USA embassy under the bus by announcing on their behalf that they to will stop income letters

[doctormann]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

As I understand it - from amongst the 1100 preceding messages - the British consular function is now so comprehensively 'outsourced' & geographically 'updated' that it would take a cultural & physical revolution for them to be able to receive their flesh'n blood citizens in person to have their signatures witnessed ...

Well, they could, presumably, outsource the process to VFS as they seem to have done this with most other services!

[Thaidream]

53 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What does the US Embassy do if you don't believe in God? This is a serious question.

No mention of the Divine One in the Oath-   " I swear the info etc etc is true etc etc.  Sworn under the penalty of felon.   Once you sign your name and raise your hand and swear- if it is found to be a lie- charges can be brought. 

[doctormann]

8 minutes ago, gdhm said:

 Posted something on this 17 hours ago but it does not seem to have loaded to Thread for some reason.  So here is a new version ????

 

 

1) I am on a Retirement Extension Visa and was under the impression that Thai Banks will not open Bank Accounts for Retirement Visa holders (as no work permit).

As far as I know there are no Bank statements issued for Thai Savings or Fixed Accounts.

 

2) If I switched from a Retirement Visa to a Marriage Visa (as there is NO WAY I can muster a further ฿560,000 by April 2019 from my UK State and Private Pensions) and I use the ฿400,000 in a Thai Savings or Fixed Account each year and never touch it,  surely Thai Imm. will ask for further proof of other income to show what I'm living on and where that came from. Currently my pensions go into a UK Nationwide BS Flex Plus account and I draw via ATMs I assume Thai Imm. would not be happy with that as proof.  

I know some here with money to spare will say "send pensions direct to Thai Bank account".  My answer to that is "I would waste a lot of money, poor Exchange rates and transfer fees by both UK bank AND Thai Bank. In fact one private pension I get form a major company refuses to transfer pensions outside of UK. I have tried to get them to do so but their rules are their rules. One Private pension provider uses American Express who set their own Exchange rates and I would have to pay a transfer fee plus the Thai Clearing bank and Thai bank fees. At least with Nationwide Flex Plus account I pay GBP13 a month and have ZERO conversion or transfer fees (Visa Europe exchange rates are used) and importantly I make ATM withdrawals based best/better Declkared Visa Europe exchange rates on the day).

 

3) I 100% accept Thai Imm. rules and requirements are what it decides, but I do not personally understand the problem with UK bank statements being used as proof of Income (and USE) because they show income was overseas and show Thai ATM or transfers to Thailand thus proving amount of monthly income form whom, and income transferred to Thailand or drawn form a Thai ATM etc. Is that not exactly what Thai Imm. wish to be certain about?

The Embassy Proof of income only shows what Gross of UK tax Pension income one gets (for income declared to the Embassy BUT the Letter does not prove if that is is drawn on for living in Thailand. My Bank Statements are detailed and clearly show pensions paid into account from Pension provider, and I can provide sight to THai Imm. of the Original/latest Pension details letter. On my Bank statements all ATM withdrawal details are very clearly. showing Location of ATM used, amount withdrawn in Thai Baht, Exchange rate used and amount in UK GBP.  One can even provide the original ATM receipt to support statement. 

 

I would be interested on others knowledge or experience on particularly 1) and 2)

Many thanks

 

 

It certainly is possible to get a savings account with a Thai bank, as a retiree.  I have two - with Kasikorn and TMB.  You may have to try several different branches though before you get lucky!

 

As far as statements for savings accounts are concerned, electronic versions certainly exist for my Kasikorn account and can be downloaded as PDF and printed.  I've not tried this with TMB.  I've not tried to get 'real' statements for either bank, as yet - never needed to before now.

 

[mfd101]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Fantastic. Why can't the British embassy do the same?!?

As I have suggested earlier on either this thread or its parallel one, the obvious thing for Brits to do would be to check whether & where their Embassy witnesses signatures on statdecs/affidavits/affirmations or whatever they're called under British law.

 

Assuming this is not ALSO done by mail (how could it be? given that it NECESSARILY involves the author of the statdec being physically present), then they can simply do what we Aussies do: Make your statement of income as your declaration & get the Embassy to witness your signature on it. This would get round the embassy's problem and, until further notice, Thai Immigration's!!!

Edited October 11, 2018 by mfd101

[evadgib]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Fantastic. Why can't the British embassy do the same?!?

Because bkk May as well be London re distance and travel time for many, not to mention the queue & security aspect once there which Brits are aware was key to them stopping the practice in favour of mailing them 5+ years ago.

Edited October 11, 2018 by evadgib

[OJAS]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Fantastic. Why can't the British embassy do the same?!?

Basically because they are now actively participating in an overall UK Government strategy to make life for us expat Brits living in Thailand as miserably difficult as is humanly possible.

[billd766]

24 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

No mention of the Divine One in the Oath-   " I swear the info etc etc is true etc etc.  Sworn under the penalty of felon.   Once you sign your name and raise your hand and swear- if it is found to be a lie- charges can be brought. 

 

My apologies. I had assumed that the swearing of the oath would have used a copy of the bible to put one hand on, hence the thought of god.

[doctormann]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Because bkk May as well be London re distance and travel time for many, not to mention the queue & security aspect once there.

Agreed but really no different to having to travel to Trendy in Bangkok for UK passport and visa services.

 

[Corey Hunter]

If you're a U.S. Veteran try to get a Navy Federal Credit Union Bank account. Navy Federal provides a Western Union Service for $15, you can have them send money from your bank account monthly. I send myself 100k a month and it works out for me, the exchange rates that Navy Federal gives tend to be market. 

Just a thought. 

[Expattaff1308]

A mate of mine yesterday called into Khon Kaen Imm Office explained the situation to them and was asked Why the embassy not give letter.

He went on to ask if I show over the year a monthly deposit into my Thai account of 65,000 (as advised by the BE) will this be acceptable...answer = No, no letter must have 800k in Bank.

So there lies the problem the BE is saying one thing and advising us what will cause us problems come extension....and it seems the Immigration offices have not been informed of any change so are sticking to the usual routes available to us. 400/800k in bank or Income Letter from the Embassy.

[gdhm]

14 minutes ago, doctormann said:

 

It certainly is possible to get a savings account with a Thai bank, as a retiree.  I have two - with Kasikorn and TMB.  You may have to try several different branches though before you get lucky!

 

As far as statements for savings accounts are concerned, electronic versions certainly exist for my Kasikorn account and can be downloaded as PDF and printed.  I've not tried this with TMB.  I've not tried to get 'real' statements for either bank, as yet - never needed to before now.

 

Thanks for Info doctormann

 

 

I do have a Bangkok Bank Savings account and also a Bangkok Bank Fixed Deposit Account(which until last year I used for a combination of income and savings for my Retirement Extensions). Would Thai Imm. accept downloaded Statements.  (I noted some have said they have refused UK Bank Statements, I assume both original or downloaded).

 

I started getting my UK State Pension and last extension was able to apply purely based on Income using the Embassy Proof of Income Letter and it was the easiest extension I have ever done, as I no longer needed to race to Thai Bank to get a Proof of Savings letter dated and provided the same day as my Extension visit to Thai Imm.

 

Just my and many Brits luck, that due to no fault of our own, once again we have new unexpected Visa application worries.????

 

 

[safarimike11]

On 10/8/2018 at 1:59 PM, mok199 said:

My Canadian embassy told me they too will stop, I went for my letter of income lastweek and the woman at my Canadian embssy  BKK ,(who has been their for years) told me this was coming ,I asked why ,she replied ''too much paper work''.2 days latter when I went to immigration in Pattaya(with my letter of income) to renew my visa, my wife was approached by an immigration officer ''next year when your husband needs his retirement visa ,come and see me '' and he quoted her a price.. hmmmm

B

 

On 10/8/2018 at 2:40 PM, mfd101 said:

It's pretty obvious that, whatever it was called and whatever the Thai authorities thought or think (assuming they do), the annual declaration of income could not possibly be verified by ANY embassy even though you produce documents in support. Embassies are not a detective force. All ANY of them have ever done in reality is to witness YOUR signature on some form of affidavit or statutory declaration, with or without some supporting doco.

 

If the Thais NOW want REAL proof of income, then demonstration of funds moving more or less regularly into Thailand will be the only way to do it, I should think. Whether those funds have to touch down in a Thai financial institution is an interesting question. In my case, since my large-scale movement of funds for house building ended 18 months ago, I almost invariably use BKK Bank atms to debit from my Australian accounts for daily living funds. These rarely go into my BKK Bank account - I just take the cash & run. When I'm in BKK, I use Citibank atms so no cash touches down in a Thai institution.

 

But of course, I'm still bringing funds into Thailand & spending them here ...

Be careful (opinion, not advice).

[007 RED]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

......   People buying fake British Embassy income letters off the internet and having them accepted by the IO? Highly unlikely. evidence please.

Sorry to contradict you but I think that there is evidence that fake Embassy letters have been submitted to immigration.  A number of TV members (including myself) have reported on TV that when they have presented their Embassy letter to immigration the IO demands that the letter is ‘certified’ by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  The certification is in fact authentication of the signature.

 

From the reports on TV it would appear that this requirement was confined to a small number of offices.

 

When I asked the IO why this was necessary, I was informed that immigration have received a number of fakes and this requirement was to ensure the document was authentic.

 

As a side issue… Have you ever been down the Khao San Road in BKK before they cleaned it up a few months ago?  Famous for fake documents, IDs, degrees etc.  I’m sure that you could also obtain an Embassy letter, pension or bank statement (at a price) if required.  Too late now though, it’s all been sanitised by BKK Metro Authority.

[pontious]

21 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

As I have suggested earlier on either this thread or its parallel one, the obvious thing for Brits to do would be to check whether & where their Embassy witnesses signatures on statdecs/affidavits/affirmations or whatever they're called under British law.

 

Assuming this is not ALSO done by mail (how could it be? given that it NECESSARILY involves the author of the statdec being physically present), then they can simply do what we Aussies do: Make your statement of income as your declaration & get the Embassy to witness your signature on it. This would get round the embassy's problem and, until further notice, Thai Immigration's!!!

[malagateddy]

I hope this ain't true as I was thinking about depositing the 800K and then live off it for 9 months before topping it back for next renewal.I have used a Stat Dec from Oz Embassy in the past .Can anybody verify Superal's post?


Sent from my SM-T580 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I use cash in bank re renewing my retirement extension.
I will be going to my local I.O. in Chaiyaphum mid December to renew as it suits me, although my " anniversary " date is 5th January.
Currently in my instant access savings a/c with my Thai bank..I have well over 900000 baht in funds.My state pittance from the UK Govt is paid into my Thai bank every 4 weeks.
I play with this a/c which also pays a little interest.
The same day I do the forthcoming extension of stay I will be back at the bank putting 700000 away in a 6 month bond.
Immigration are only interested in the bank balance for the 3 months prior to extension renewal.!!!!!
They like to see " movement " in the account.
I also wish to say that I have no problem with all my funds being over here in a Thai bank.
FACT..the bank I use is very much over-capitalised.!!!
Look at the state of some of the UK and mainland Europe banks.!!



Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

That which was posted in your previous post is correct billd766, and I have added this para from mine which would seem suggest the BE are absolutely under no legal pressure with regards to their Embassy letter...……

 

"Mr Xylophone has also stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling "xyz" and has shown to us a letter from The Pension Service stating that he receives pensions totalling GBP xyz per annum. 

Yes, my last brit. embassy letter states 'DD has also stated that she receives monthly pensions totalling 'x' and has shown to letters from 'x and y' and a P60 End of Year Certificate from 'z', stating that she receives pensions totalling GBP 'x' per annum.'

[tropo]

11 hours ago, balo said:

12 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

If one is over 50, Malaysia requires a fixed deposit in a Malaysian bank of MYR 150,000 (USD 36,118 or THB 1,189,358) AND a monthly income of MYR 10,000 (USD 2,408 or THB 79,240)

 

That's for the elite only then .  So what about other types of visas for tourists who want to stay long term?  

Let's say Malaysia's requirements were as low as Thailand's, would expats be rushing to move there?  

Edited October 11, 2018 by tropo

[gdhm]

15 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Agreed but really no different to having to travel to Trendy in Bangkok for UK passport and visa services.

 

But that is only once a year.   I live up country and a visit to BKK with my health, mileage etc. is a significant issue. To do it each year would be beyond a nightmare.

 

I understand that the US Embassy visits locations in Thailand every year offering services to help its citizens, unlike the Brit Embassy who seem only interested in staying in BKK, and saving money. GOV.UK seems to do as little as possible with the least effort on behalf of its Brit Citizens around the World.

 

Brit Embassy in BKK seems only interested (or allowed to be interested) in Business and political relations with Thailand IMO. If that is not the case they certainly give that impression. Look at the nightmare requirements now for a Passport renewal. When I came here it was apply by post, then send to Hong Kong and now 2 visits to Trendy, BKK or pay an agent to make the visits. Maybe fine if you live near BKK and are healthy but of course retirees as they age are not going to be as healthy or mobile as they were when they first came to live here,

 

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

I only renewed my extension 3 months ago. They asked for bankbook copies because I had to go back outside to the shop next door to do it, and they have asked for it every time I renewed extension.

It's only been the last few years for me, but on one hair-raising occasion, my agent insisted that a copy of (both sides) of my ATM card were also necessary!

 

Although to be fair, I worried un-necessarily as there have been no fraudulent withdrawals from my bank account.  Touch wood etc.!