BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[sappersrest]

How many UK citizens have actually registered their presence in Thailand with the UK embassy, this would give the the embassy a more realistic number of UK expats living here and maybe  with a more realistic number of UK expats living here  will give the embassy more leverage in their request to negotiate with Thai authorities on our behalf.

Edited October 11, 2018 by sappersrest

[fforest1]

14 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

How many UK citizens have actually registered their presence in Thailand with the UK embassy, this would give the the embassy a more realistic number of UK expats living here and maybe  with a more realistic number of UK expats living here  will give the embassy more leverage in their request to negotiate with Thai authorities on our behalf.

I bet the BE knows exactly down to the last person how many British expats live in Thailand...I would make a wager that Thailand shares that info....

[ukrules]

32 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

How many UK citizens have actually registered their presence in Thailand with the UK embassy, this would give the the embassy a more realistic number of UK expats living here and maybe  with a more realistic number of UK expats living here  will give the embassy more leverage in their request to negotiate with Thai authorities on our behalf.

Not me, I tell them nothing.

[brewsterbudgen]

How many UK citizens have actually registered their presence in Thailand with the UK embassy, this would give the the embassy a more realistic number of UK expats living here and maybe  with a more realistic number of UK expats living here  will give the embassy more leverage in their request to negotiate with Thai authorities on our behalf.

Those that are registered get regular email updates about Britain in Thailand, including one last Monday about this topic.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

Not me, I tell them nothing.

i agree, governments, social media,etc. already know far too much. Some years ago a friend of mine who had lived in Thailand for 10 years received a phone call from the police in London on his Thai mobile asking if he had contact with a Mr X,

 

''No, why do you ask, I don't even know this name''

''He has murdered his wife and we think he has flown to Thailand, you were in the same class at school with him from the age of 9 until 11 and now live in Thailand so it was a possibility that he may have contacted you''

 

How crazy is that. He wasn't on a pension and had no contact with the UK for years.

[Shoeless Joe]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

I dont really know where to start, but lets keep this simple by pointing out that the shorter the letter the greater the chance that you'll score a bullseye (& i'll pretend I didn't notice your 01 January 2019!)

Edited 11 hours ago by evadgib

Yes, thank you for another your smug responses. Please feel free to add something positive. And yes, I did change the date prior to sending the emails.

 

Joe

Edited October 12, 2018 by Shoeless Joe

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Yes, thank you for another your smug responses. Please feel free to add something positive. And yes, I did change the date prior to sending the emails.

 

Joe

A practical suggestion based on experience is hardly being smug but as you'd already submitted it I needn't have bothered..

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Not if they are serious about the "crackdown" already started on the Agents helping to get illegal Extensions... 

One case I saw noted (posted in this thread) involved "fake tax documents" by an agent.  This is apples and oranges. 

 

The agents working with most expats don't "fake" documents - they get a genuine bank-letter based on a one-day loan into the applicant's bank-account.  Then, they get the seasoning-requirement waived by an IO with sufficient rank to legally waive that seasoning.  As so far described, no laws have been broken.

 

But, it is logical to assume that agents pay tea-money to get this seasoning waived - and that act would be illegal.  But, to prove this, they would need to, first, review extension-paperwork to find extensions where seasoning-proof is absent, then, investigate the finances of IOs who waived the seasoning on large numbers of applications, and their superiors, and their superiors'-superiors, on up the chain.  I will not hold my breath waiting for such to occur.

 

Further evidence indicating illegal money being involved, are some offices which make non-agent submissions difficult or impossible.  If they want to keep their agent-money golden-goose, they would be wise to force all offices in the country to operate like Chang Wattana - where in-person applicants can follow the published-rules as written.

[Chopperboy]

12 hours ago, fforest1 said:

I bet the BE knows exactly down to the last person how many British expats live in Thailand...I would make a wager that Thailand shares that info....

The PALANTIR AI spy system knows exactly where you are and correlates NGA geospatial data with you profile. 

[David Walden]

15 hours ago, whitemouse said:

 

Good question! I somehow doubt that Embassy changed their police because of pressure from Thai authorities. 

 

If it really was result pressure from Thai government, then why only UK Embassy? Surely gov here would have pressured every Western embassy in similar fashion, and this would have leaked, we would have heard about it from other embassies. Somehow it's only UK Embassy. And not only are other embassies  not going along, to the contrary, NZ Embassy, just for example, issued statement that they have NO plans to change anything.

Did Thai government target UK only? Doesn't make sense! UK retirees are not "extra undesirable", so why target UK expats only?

 

I bet it's UK Foreign Office, or Embassy itself. Either way, we will probably never know for sure, but we now do know HOW much UK Embassy cares about Brits residing in Thailand.

If I was British, I'd be furious. All your lives, you, Brits, have been paying taxes that pay the salaries of these bureaucrats that now decided to F you. 

 

No one has ever said life must be fair, but this move by UK Embassy towards their own people is low. All you, Brits, it is you, who have paid all your lives, and are paying now the salaries of  these douch*bags, and this is how they return in kind! 

Unbelievable!

Without being specific I would guess that a large percentage of Thai retirement visa applicant are getting letters of income or a Stat dec from various Embassies in Thailand with figures that are figment of their imagination to establish their income to be granted a visa  I talk to plenty of them who privately admit their scam.  There are a variety of ways you can get around these issue.  I believe you can get a rubber stamp made in Bangkok which will be an exact copy of an Embassy Stamp? for Bt200.  (surly not, not in BKK). It maybe that the British Embassy is aware of this and also other Embassies.  Deceptive and misleading information to obtain a benefit in Australia and probably in most western countries is a crime now days.  Embassies anywhere in the world cannot be prosecuted by the host nation for issuing a letters containing "False and Misleading Information"  Perhaps all these Embassies hear so many "cock and bull stories" about income statements they are just giving up. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by David Walden

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Without being specific I would guess that a large percentage of Thai retirement visa applicant are getting letters of income or a Stat dec from various Embassies in Thailand with figures that are figment of their imagination to establish their income to be granted a visa  I talk to plenty of them who privately admit their scam.  There are a variety of ways you can get around these issue.  I believe you can get a rubber stamp made in Bangkok which will be an exact copy of an Embassy Stamp? for Bt200.  (surly not, not in BKK). It maybe that the British Embassy is aware of this and also other Embassies.  Deceptive and misleading information to obtain a benefit in Australia and probably in most western countries is a crime now days.  Embassies anywhere in the world cannot be prosecuted by the host nation for issuing a letters containing "False and Misleading Information"  Perhaps all these Embassies hear so many "cock and bull stories" about income statements they are just giving up. 

 

I have 3 separate pensions, the State Pension, my Military pension and my company pension and you seem to be accusing me of making a false statement on all 3 of them.

 

Now how can I get 2 UK government agencies and a private company in the UK to inflate my pensions? Unless of course you are accusing me of fraud.

 

I suggest that you do a bit more research before making a statement like that.

[Expattaff1308]

David Walden

I had to show my pension letters to get the Ïncome Letter"from the Embassy. Can you honestly believe the DWP and Civil Service Pensions are going to falsify documents to enable me to meet the financial requirements of the Thai Immigration??

I also used to attach them to the Embassy Letter for Immigration.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[doctormann]

Is it possible to inform BBC News about this?

It may not be news, as such, yet, but it's surely going to be if ex-pats are going to be forced out of the Country!

 

I already tried penning a message to [email protected] but sending fails as the address is apparently not valid!

 

If anyone knows how to do this please let me know or PM me and I will send you the text.

[chickenslegs]

2 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Is it possible to inform BBC News about this?

It may not be news, as such, yet, but it's surely going to be if ex-pats are going to be forced out of the Country!

 

I already tried penning a message to [email protected] but sending fails as the address is apparently not valid!

 

If anyone knows how to do this please let me know or PM me and I will send you the text.

https://www.bbc.com/news/have_your_say

[doctormann]

3 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/have_your_say

Thanks, I'll try that.

I suppose we could tweet Jonathan Head?  I don't have a Twitter account but someone on this forum will have.

[mfd101]

9 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Is it possible to inform BBC News about this?

It may not be news, as such, yet, but it's surely going to be if ex-pats are going to be forced out of the Country!

 

I already tried penning a message to [email protected] but sending fails as the address is apparently not valid!

 

If anyone knows how to do this please let me know or PM me and I will send you the text.

Sounds like an excellent idea. The more noise you Brits make, including OUTSIDE Thailand, the more both the Brit Embassy AND Thai Immigration will sit up & take notice.

[doctormann]

25 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Thanks, I'll try that.

I suppose we could tweet Jonathan Head?  I don't have a Twitter account but someone on this forum will have.

Text duly submitted to 'haveyoursay' and receipt acknowledged.

 

If I get any feedback I'll post it on this forum.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Text duly submitted to 'haveyoursay' and receipt acknowledged.

 

If I get any feedback I'll post it on this forum.

Don't forget the Foreign office facebook, I don't have an account myself so I can't protest using this road. I shall certainly try the BBC route.

[Joe Mcseismic]

14 hours ago, sappersrest said:

How many UK citizens have actually registered their presence in Thailand with the UK embassy, this would give the the embassy a more realistic number of UK expats living here and maybe  with a more realistic number of UK expats living here  will give the embassy more leverage in their request to negotiate with Thai authorities on our behalf.

As a Brit living in Thailand for a few decades now, I've found it to be good policy to stay off the Thai government's radar................and also the British government's radar.

[doctormann]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Don't forget the Foreign office facebook, I don't have an account myself so I can't protest using this road. I shall certainly try the BBC route.

I don't have FB either - gave upon it long ago.

Good idea for those that do have to post something on there.

[David Walden]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I have 3 separate pensions, the State Pension, my Military pension and my company pension and you seem to be accusing me of making a false statement on all 3 of them.

 

Now how can I get 2 UK government agencies and a private company in the UK to inflate my pensions? Unless of course you are accusing me of fraud.

 

I suggest that you do a bit more research before making a statement like that.

  Man it seems you want to be the victim...I was really talking about the many of the thousands perhaps millions of Retirement Visa applicants, who have no hard evidence with their information about their savings, I know there are plenty. (all nice people)  The UK or Aus pension is OK to live in Thailand but is far short of the required Bt800,000 P/A income requirement and getting worse each day presently (Aus pension about Bt500,000 P/A now).  My situation is much like your income, Part of bank deposit, part bank managed retirement fund ( called Super in Aus) and part Aus Govt. "Australian Aged Pension" (AAP).  My Bank Managed Super fund has a surrender value in excess of the required Bt800,000, that's all I show the Thai Embassy in Canberra, I have to have witten proof from the Super fund.  Lady from the Thai Embassy in Canberra say "you tell them no more, it just confuses them you have enough in your retirement fund for Retirement  Visa OK, OK, OK say no more she is lovely"  I get my Retirement Visa from the Thai Embassy in Canberra Aus.  Multi entry "O" and it can last almost 2 years if you leave and return a day before before the 1 year expiry date. Thai Immigration will extend the visa a further 12 month each time you leave and re-enter in the 1st 12 months.  If you leave during the extension period (2nd 12 months) your visa will lapse and you will have to re-apply for a retirement visa.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

As a Brit living in Thailand for a few decades now, I've found it to be good policy to stay off the Thai government's radar................and also the British government's radar.

but we are all on the screen regardless, making a smaller blip helps.

[doctormann]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

As a Brit living in Thailand for a few decades now, I've found it to be good policy to stay off the Thai government's radar................and also the British government's radar.

This doesn't bother me as I'm 100% legal.  Nothing to hide!

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Thailand has been and is continuing to tighten its visa standards with a view to getting rid of what it deems 'lower quality' aliens and I'm sure that they are aware that Thailand is a desirable retirement destination

 

On 10/9/2018 at 3:43 PM, gentlemanjackdarby said:

Some of the replies to your post are rather dismissive, but I for one am not so quick to dismiss your ideas; I think you raise some good points but likely prematurely.

 

I took a look at the retirement visa scheme for Indonesia and was very surprised to see that Indonesia also taxes the world-wide income of its retirement visa holders (tax resident) as well - As an American, I thought that we were one of only a handful of countries, among them Libya, North Korea, Eritrea and the Philippines, that taxes world-wide income of citizens and resident aliens.

 

I thought he concept of taxing income which has no nexus (connection) to where earned was a particularly American and odious concept; apparently I was (surprisingly) wrong and doubly so to see it in a SE Asian country.

 

I know that the Philippines specifically exempts the income of it's retirement visa holders, so I thought that Indonesia would likely do so as well as do most countries that offer a retirement visa scheme, but I was unable to find a specific exemption for 'pension income'; it appears that a government retirement benefit, such as Social Security, is not taxed.

 

My point in bringing up Indonesia is that countries in SE Asia offering retirement schemes do pay attention to what goes on in other countries; for example, I find it likely that the rumored tightening of financial standards for the Malaysia My Second Home program is likely due to the Malaysians seeing what some retirees are up to in places like Thailand or the Philippines.

 

As others have pointed out, Thailand has been and is continuing to tighten its visa standards with a view to getting rid of what it deems 'lower quality' aliens and I'm sure that they are aware that Thailand is a desirable retirement destination so people wishing to retire there will put up with comparatively more hoops than in some other countries, so why not develop another revenue stream by trying to tax their worldwide income as well?

 

 

for thailand to attract higher quality - that is, higher income -  aliens and reitrees, it needs to become a higher quality country. as we all know, changing the quality - and income -  of a country is a bit harder than just starting a VIP visa program, just like advertising that pattaya is now FAMILY DESTINATION will not make it destination for families. so rest assure that thailand will not tighten too tight it's visa regulations. cause than people will just stop coming, as it happaned in the past. 60,000 baht or 1800 USD a month, can buy nice retirement life style in most countries around the world, even in great first world countries like spain portugal and italy, where you get true justice system and immigration rules that do make sense (no need to report your address to mommy every 90 days...or pay 1000 baht every time you leave the country), so the only question is : what the hell am i still doing here writing in this forum?

[Joe Mcseismic]

41 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Sounds like an excellent idea. The more noise you Brits make, including OUTSIDE Thailand, the more both the Brit Embassy AND Thai Immigration will sit up & take notice.

Yer think?

[Ned]

Complaining to Thai officials is way out of line. It will prove detremental to your cause.

 

"Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are talking to? Whose country is this anyhow? If you haven't got 800k in your Thai bank 3 months before extension application then you are no longer welcome.

Simple as that. We make the rules here."

 

 

[GoNavy]

Geez, this IMO will put a hardship on many.  I don't particularily want to  draw out $26,000 just for it to sit in a low interest account.  Its all a scam to get foreigners to butress the bank monies.  If it is so important why make it so difficult to get a Thai account?  

I was at the American Embassy two days ago and asked.  He said the decision makers were in discussion.

Edited October 12, 2018 by GoNavy

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, GoNavy said:

Geez, this IMO will put a hardship on many.  I don't particularily want to  draw out $26,000 just for it to sit in a low interest account.  Its all a scam to get foreigners to butress the bank monies.  If it is so important why make it so difficult to get a Thai account?  

I was at the American Embassy two days ago and asked.  He said the decision makers were in discussion.

Yeah, it's a drag. I've been doing it for many years but was planning on switching to the combo method next year. It is basically "dead money" and while it's not serious money to wealthy people it's not a bag of peanuts either to 99 percent of people in the world. The only bright side I see is that there is some kind of good feeling of security always having a fair chunk of money here and as many people do, I spend it down during the year, and then top up for extensions. So for a good portion of the year the amount of "dead money" isn't the full amount. 

Of course there will be a fair portion of people that have enough income to live here but either can't or don't want to park that much dead money here if it turns out the bank method becomes the only option. 

Bottom line -- Thai immigration never gave us any guarantees and we knew that coming in, and a one year extension is just that. Short leash. 

 

A little detour to give some perspective on the meaning of over 25,000 dollars tied up. Yesterday I read a news item saying SIXTY PERCENT of Americans (one of the world's richest nations) don't even have ONE thousand dollars liquid to deal with a minor emergency. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[CharlieH]

Meanwhile Back on topic ! Please.

This is not a banking thread.

 

Edit: Nor about re-entry permits.

[David Walden]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well this is the most "cock and bull" story I've heard so far! The British Embassy letter has a red seal embossed into the paper. Difficult to replicate, and a stamp wouldn't cut it.

 

Most people supply information in a form that is also difficult to replicate.

 

Nice try but no cigar.

Thai Retirement Visa:- Went to Aus Embassy in Bangkok a few years ago with a stat dec with evidence that I had more then Bt 800,000 in my Bank managed retirement fund, signed it in front of an Embassy official, they signed it and put an Embassy stamp on it, had to get on a que.  The Embassy indicated this would get me a Retirement Visa, charged Bt1900 ( now Bt3000 about $110 and have to have an appointment, takes about 2 mins).  Oh! how the money rolls in.  I didn't get the visa.  I did the same in Australia together with a genuine $75 police report and got a $75 genuine medical certificate (not the Bt80 model signed by the  Dr. receptionist)  showing that I didn't have the clap and a few other things, paid my Aus $275  fee, no problem getting a Retirement Visa.  Took about a week.  According to Thai Web Site in Aus. nothing has change, this service is still available. 

    Trying to get a Retirement Visa to live in Australia from Thailand or UK you need about 1.5 million dollars Aus and at least $200 a week for medical insurance ( not free for freeloaders there) You have to build a new house not buy one and have at least $750,000 or maybe more now to live on.   In Aus or UK to get a retirement visa it will not be anywhere near as simple as it is to get approval as it is in Thailand nor will it be anywhere near that simple in most western countries.  You really just need the Bt800,000 in Thailand and it will happen.  There in lies the problem! Maybe hmmm. 

    The Perth Consul a few years ago when I complained about "red tape" reminded me when I was applying for a Thai 60 day+30 day tourist visa, that for a Thai to apply for a short term visa to Aus, the application the form is 28 pages long and proof of income is very carefully examined (he won that argument).   Making a false declaration in Aus if found out can get you 4 years in gaol or a very heavy fine.  Probably the same in UK or US  Perhaps all the Thai immigration wants is the truth from applicants when applying for a Retirement Visa, yes there are many "cock and bull" stories around this one.  It seems to be out of control at present, maybe they'll fix it...don't hold your breath.  Maybe that's where they a trying to go??? ( a long hard road for The Thais). 

   It seems maybe that if you pass the medical, don't have any outstanding criminal actions against you and have the required funds and be able to prove either to be in your home country or Thailand all will be simple if you apply at home or in Thailand???.   So what different in any western country?  With this procedure you can stay in Thailand on a Retirement visa for almost 2 years ( multi "O").    The other frustrating issues when applying for any other Thai visas are a different kettle of fish red tape +++...but TIT  Hmmmm.