BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[lungbing]

I renewed my extension to stay just last month.  The British Embassy letter has an embossed seal on it and the IO ran her finger over it to check it was real.

[cleopatra2]

Obviously Thai immigration did have contact in may , the BE was informed of the requirement that education certificates needed to be legalised , a service that the embassy cannot undertake.

This leads to the general question , can the BE act as notaries under UK law , and if so is this unfettered ,( such as a qualified lawyer) , or more restrictive , in the case of an individual receiving specific training to undertake such duties.

[blackhorse]

I thought they charged money for the letters? 
 
When I pay for letters, I figure this not only covers staff salaries (a few minutes per-letter), but also a portion of my Embassy's overhead-costs.  If anything, a smaller embassy and a big-return on land-sale should mean discounted services for Brits.
 
If it's a matter of losing money, they could simply raise the cost per-letter - ideally providing a full and public accounting of costs as justification.

They charge but no good if it's zero sum profit
If it was profitable I'm guessing they would have never walked away

[Pattaya46]

Several members mentioning "millions of expats" concerned by this BE decision. Seems to me totally ridiculously high figures. Does anyone know a more realistic number of expats in Thailand ?

 

Or better: How many expats ?

- who are farangs ?  (I think I once read "nearly 3 millions", including many young and/or working)

- and, who are over 50 ?

- and, who use Retirement Extension ?

- and, who use Income Letter ?

- and, who are from UK ?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Pattaya46

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.   Continue with such remarks and earn a suspension.  

[oldlakey]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Several members mentioning "millions of expats" concerned by this BE decision. Seems to me totally ridiculously high figures. Does anyone know a more realistic number of expats in Thailand ?

 

Or better: How many expats ?

- who are farangs ?  (I think I once read "nearly 3 millions", including many young and/or working)

- and, who are over 50 ?

- and, who use Retirement Extension ?

- and, who use Income Letter ?

- and, who are from UK ?

No idea of the answers to any of those, but I think there will be a brain drain if there is not a u-turn on this

[Percy P]

On 10/8/2018 at 2:17 PM, bluesofa said:

Ha ha ha!

I see that joke about how how open a bank account in Thailand requires only three items.

They deliberately miss out the details about how you need to visit many banks (often the same bank but different branch) in order to maybe get lucky and be 'allowed' to open a bank account. Each branch makes up its own rules - we all know that from experience.

 

I bet within five years they'll probably completely stop renewing passports too - via outsourcing or other means.

<end of sarcasm mode for those with no sense of humour>

 

BE doesn't issue a new passport. This is done by applying for it yourself to the passport office in the uk .Ive done it. Takes about 5-6 weeks.All details are on the internet.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Percy P
Mistakes

[Merlindxb]

Could it be that, once a statement has been made there can not be any going back! (loss of Face). 

The Ambassador to Thailand, is paid by the British Government! proof is his annual P60.. This is an accountable document, it has his address and his National Insurance number on it and is Proof Positive of how much he was paid. it doesn't need validating, by virtue that it is accepted by all forms of the UK Tax regime, so anyone sending their P60’s to the British Embassy are providing proof positive and swearing an affidavit of their income. 

[Maestro]

Could it be that the British embassy no longer wants to issue the embassy letter in the current format, ie with the letterhead of the embassy and with a text confirming that the embassy has seen the documents evidencing the income stated by the foreigner, but that the embassy would be happy authenticate the foreigner's signature on an affidavit typed or handwritten by the foreigner in his own words on a plain sheet of paper, as I believe most other embassies are doing?

[CharlieH]

Off topic and responses removed.

[Psychic]

I realise this is so high-tech and new to this country but couldn't all the embassies have online applications for letters of income and have the corroborating documents attached then send Thai Immigration an electronic statement.

 

There would be a reference number for the local IO to access.

 

No forgeries, no trips to Bangkok, a whole lot of trees saved, and the documentation would be available for immigration to examine if they wanted.

 

I realise this would take something called the internet.

 

I've heard other countries use it a lot.

????

 

Actually if you had a file number just about everything could be uploaded and accessible...passport, tabien baan, the bank could send a record of transactions, even digital photos

 

I have a hard time believing the stack of paperwork that is submitted annually is used for anything after the extension is approved. Else why submit the same thing every year.

 

With all the talk of modernizing here the bureaucratic system is still stuck in the 70's.

[geoffbezoz]

17 minutes ago, Psychic said:

I realise this is so high-tech and new to this country but couldn't all the embassies have online applications for letters of income and have the corroborating documents attached then send Thai Immigration an electronic statement.

 

There would be a reference number for the local IO to access.

 

No forgeries, no trips to Bangkok, a whole lot of trees saved, and the documentation would be available for immigration to examine if they wanted.

 

I realise this would take something called the internet.

 

I've heard other countries use it a lot.

????

 

Actually if you had a file number just about everything could be uploaded and accessible...passport, tabien baan, the bank could send a record of transactions, even digital photos

 

I have a hard time believing the stack of paperwork that is submitted annually is used for anything after the extension is approved. Else why submit the same thing every year.

 

With all the talk of modernizing here the bureaucratic system is still stuck in the 70's.

But that was the system the BE were using. Online application for the letter and you attached all documents stating income/pensions.

[doctormann]

17 minutes ago, Psychic said:

I realise this is so high-tech and new to this country but couldn't all the embassies have online applications for letters of income and have the corroborating documents attached then send Thai Immigration an electronic statement.

 

There would be a reference number for the local IO to access.

 

No forgeries, no trips to Bangkok, a whole lot of trees saved, and the documentation would be available for immigration to examine if they wanted.

 

I realise this would take something called the internet.

 

I've heard other countries use it a lot.

????

 

Actually if you had a file number just about everything could be uploaded and accessible...passport, tabien baan, the bank could send a record of transactions, even digital photos

 

I have a hard time believing the stack of paperwork that is submitted annually is used for anything after the extension is approved. Else why submit the same thing every year.

 

With all the talk of modernizing here the bureaucratic system is still stuck in the 70's.

Definitely too high-tech for Thailand!

 

They just love their paperwork here.  My local office - Jomptien - has a back room that is absolutely stuffed with piles of documents that, probably, no-one has ever really looked at and probably never will!  How many thousand passport copies are in there!!

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Online application for the letter and you attached all documents stating income/pensions.

Sending the application and supporting documents as an attachment by email to them is not exactly online IMO.

[geoffbezoz]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Sending the application and supporting documents as an attachment by email to them is not exactly online IMO.

on·line

änˈlīn/

COMPUTING

adjective

 

1. 1.

   controlled by or connected to another computer or to a network.

   •  

      

adverb

 

1. 1.

   while so connected or under computer control.

   •  
2. 2.

   in or into operation or existence.

   "the town's new high-tech power plant is expected to go online this month"

[David Walden]

19 hours ago, GoNavy said:

Geez, this IMO will put a hardship on many.  I don't particularily want to  draw out $26,000 just for it to sit in a low interest account.  Its all a scam to get foreigners to butress the bank monies.  If it is so important why make it so difficult to get a Thai account?  

I was at the American Embassy two days ago and asked.  He said the decision makers were in discussion.

I can take Bt 800,000 out of my retirement fund in Australia and put it a Thai Bank, but I don't.  My pension fund usually pays about 6/7% P/A dividend and about 3% P/A increased value due to inflation (not so good this week).  If I put the $800,000 in a Thai bank and maybe get no interest or 1%,  I am Bt80,000 down on my pension fund dividend for the year or about Bt8/9000P/M, the same as the rent I pay for my nice town house I rent in Thailand.   By applying in Australia for a retirement visa (same in most western countries) I can keep the money in my dividend producing retirement fund (or Bank) and receive all my benefits as usual.  You just need a Retirement Fund statement showing the surrender value of at least Bt800,000 or more or a bank statement showing you have = to Bt800,000 and the usual police report and medical cert plus $275 Aus and "Bob's your Uncle).  And lots of paper works signed by a JP.  A bit complicated the first time you apply at your home Country at a Thai Embassy but when you know the ropes and do as they request all happens very quickly, about  10 days.  And you get to keep your money in you home country.

   I keep all my money in Australia I have bank debit accounts with 2 large international bank where I get the official exchange rate for that day when making ATM withdraws in Thailand.  All bank fees shown on the  receipt are instantly credited back to my account.  I can get money when I like at any ATM world wide free of any bank fees from both banks, The limit is Aus $2200 per day.  So if you have the BT800.000 in your home country there is no reason to put any money in a Thai Bank,.. Once you get the Retirement visa you can do what you like with the money or pay someone back if you have borrowed it or just live off your AAP (about Bt43,000P/M  Aus pension).  All legit and above board.  You must have real proof that the money you say you have is real money.

Edited October 13, 2018 by David Walden

[NanLaew]

On 10/11/2018 at 11:17 AM, ukrules said:

I can't think of a single scenario where a declaration like this needs to be signed and witnessed for a UK citizen.

 

For legal documents you can have a lawyer witness and countersign a signature like a will or something.

In order to comply with international legislation on anti-money laundering, terrorist funding and FATCA, recent UK banking "Know Your Customer" (KYC) procedures need a UK citizen domiciled in Thailand to give proof of actual residential address. In my personal experience, the BE consular office won't sign off on the bank's 'stat dec' or any other third-party documentation. However, the offshore bank I use did finally accept an English language legalization of a translation of my Thai driving license done by a Thai lawyer who is also a registered Thai Notary.

 

The experience of others may vary.

[thetefldon]

Right this affects me and honestly I have not read every reply on this mega thread.  So if my query has been answered I apologise.

 

A bit of background. I am on a retirement extension and base my extension income on the 65,000 Baht part of the rule. For the last 8 years I have used a British Embassy letter which incidentally required me to show documentary proof of the source of my income.  Personally I transfer in somewhere in the region of 70K Baht each month. It has a paper trail(anti money laundering regs from UK) so I have a receipt from the FX company I use and my Thai bank account passbook which obviously match.

 

So now to my question. Has anyone asked Thai immigration what they will require as proof of income. Appreciate the problems with local offices. I shall be visiting mine(Phetchabun) next week on a 90 day and intend to ask.

[blackhorse]

Right this affects me and honestly I have not read every reply on this mega thread.  So if my query has been answered I apologise.
 
A bit of background. I am on a retirement extension and base my extension income on the 65,000 Baht part of the rule. For the last 8 years I have used a British Embassy letter which incidentally required me to show documentary proof of the source of my income.  Personally I transfer in somewhere in the region of 70K Baht each month. It has a paper trail(anti money laundering regs from UK) so I have a receipt from the FX company I use and my Thai bank account passbook which obviously match.
 
So now to my question. Has anyone asked Thai immigration what they will require as proof of income. Appreciate the problems with local offices. I shall be visiting mine(Phetchabun) next week on a 90 day and intend to ask.

Nothing has changed or it would have been updated on the Tha immigration website

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

Right this affects me and honestly I have not read every reply on this mega thread.  So if my query has been answered I apologise.

 

A bit of background. I am on a retirement extension and base my extension income on the 65,000 Baht part of the rule. For the last 8 years I have used a British Embassy letter which incidentally required me to show documentary proof of the source of my income.  Personally I transfer in somewhere in the region of 70K Baht each month. It has a paper trail(anti money laundering regs from UK) so I have a receipt from the FX company I use and my Thai bank account passbook which obviously match.

 

So now to my question. Has anyone asked Thai immigration what they will require as proof of income. Appreciate the problems with local offices. I shall be visiting mine(Phetchabun) next week on a 90 day and intend to ask.

They want a confirmation of income from the embassy, you can still get one until the middle of December when it stops being issued, after that the IO will want a letter of confirmation of income from the embassy.

Edited October 13, 2018 by soalbundy

[doctormann]

5 minutes ago, thetefldon said:

Right this affects me and honestly I have not read every reply on this mega thread.  So if my query has been answered I apologise.

 

A bit of background. I am on a retirement extension and base my extension income on the 65,000 Baht part of the rule. For the last 8 years I have used a British Embassy letter which incidentally required me to show documentary proof of the source of my income.  Personally I transfer in somewhere in the region of 70K Baht each month. It has a paper trail(anti money laundering regs from UK) so I have a receipt from the FX company I use and my Thai bank account passbook which obviously match.

 

So now to my question. Has anyone asked Thai immigration what they will require as proof of income. Appreciate the problems with local offices. I shall be visiting mine(Phetchabun) next week on a 90 day and intend to ask.

This is what we are all waiting to hear!

Surely some system will have to be put in place.  

[thetefldon]

Thanks for those replies;

1. My extension is for renewal in February 2019.

2. Appreciate regs have not changed

 

I just want to know how we prove the income.  Thank you

[blackhorse]

This is what we are all waiting to hear!

Surely some system will have to be put in place.  

Not sure what you mean. There already is a system in place

 

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, doctormann said:

This is what we are all waiting to hear!

Surely some system will have to be put in place.  

The embassy letter is the system in place

[BobBKK]

11 hours ago, Maestro said:

Could it be that the British embassy no longer wants to issue the embassy letter in the current format, ie with the letterhead of the embassy and with a text confirming that the embassy has seen the documents evidencing the income stated by the foreigner, but that the embassy would be happy authenticate the foreigner's signature on an affidavit typed or handwritten by the foreigner in his own words on a plain sheet of paper, as I believe most other embassies are doing?

Could be but it seems absurd the Thai authorities would accept people saying they have the income without verification. Always seemed bizarre that they would do that as us Brits always had to 'prove' we had the income via bank statements etc. Forget all this and put the 800k in a savings account and treat it as a 'sunk cost' of living here.

Edited October 13, 2018 by BobBKK

[doctormann]

1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

Not sure what you mean. There already is a system in place

 

Yes, but the existing system, whereby the Embassy certifies incomes will no longer be available after the end of this year as the Embassy will no longer issue the certification letters.

 

There needs to be some alternative mechanism that we can use to prove our incomes, otherwise the income method will no longer be available, which would be against the spirit of the Thai Immigration Act, which allows bank deposit, regular income deposit or a combination.  To remove the income method would require an amendment to the law - and would, presumably, apply to all nationalities, not just UK ex-pats.

[thetefldon]

1 minute ago, doctormann said:

Yes, but the existing system, whereby the Embassy certifies incomes will no longer be available after the end of this year as the Embassy will no longer issue the certification letters.

 

There needs to be some alternative mechanism that we can use to prove our incomes, otherwise the income method will no longer be available, which would be against the spirit of the Thai Immigration Act, which allows bank deposit, regular income deposit or a combination.  To remove the income method would require an amendment to the law - and would, presumably, apply to all nationalities, not just UK ex-pats.

Thanks, that is the point I was making. What proof do we need to provide after Decemeber 31st 2018

[BobBKK]

Just now, thetefldon said:

Thanks, that is the point I was making. What proof do we need to provide after Decemeber 31st 2018

Hoping 65k + into a Thai account would be enough proof?

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Hoping 65k + into a Thai account would be enough proof?

Doesn't seem to be the case Bob! 

[thetefldon]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Hoping 65k + into a Thai account would be enough proof?

I am sure it will be......what I would like to know is how it is going to need presenting that is what evidence they will need....e.g copy of passbook, bank statements, letter from bank, FX transactions etc