BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Now, don't get me wrong....I sure hope Thai immigration does simply start accepting foreign generated income type statements "without an embassy letter"...I really do.   But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to possibly happen.

I agree with you conceptually- but the fact is they accepted it with the Embassy Letter and they could accept it without the Embassy Letter-   A Pension letter backed by a foreign bank statement showing the same amount direct deposited as on the pension letter with the bank statesmen also showing the money debited at a Thai  ATM- final proof- the Actual Debit Cards- could fake the docs -pretty hard to  fake the debit cards.  Time will tell

[wayned]

22 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

À lot of posters here speculate about the word "verified" .

But as far as I know nobody really knows what T. I. understand by "verification".

So far they still accept the Income Letters/Affidavit from other embassies and consulates. 

Which mean, I suppose, they are so far agree with the way those carry out the "verification". 

 

 

That's exactly why the US Embassy should have backed off and took the position that they did in 2014 and wait and see.  If TI did something to stop the current Income letter submittals then they would have to respond accordingly.  But in this case we got thrown under the bus by some vice consul that thinks that she/he knows more than anybody else. 

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, wayned said:

hat's exactly why the US Embassy should have backed off and took the position that they did in 2014 and wait and see.  If TI did something to stop the current Income letter submittals then they would have to respond accordingly.  But in this case we got thrown under the bus by some vice consul that thinks that she/he knows more than anybody else.

Agree completely- they could have indicated to Thai Imm in a very polite and diplomatic way that we have to follow American laws on Data Protect but we do have our citizens swear under Oath the information is true- if you find an issue-with someone who has lied- notify us.  BE could have done exactly the same with their system.  Instead they yelled - NO- to Thai Imm  and threw us under the bus. I thought  an Embassy practiced diplomacy.

[OneeyedJohn]

I just emailed Stacey Filer at the BE and got a very prompt response to my query regarding these letters.

Her CYA reply was according to "Thai Law" the letters will be accepted for up to 6 months after they stop accepting applications for the letter on December 12th.

 

OeJ

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

just emailed Stacey Filer at the BE and got a very prompt response to my query regarding these letters.

Her CYA reply was according to "Thai Law" the letters will be accepted for up to 6 months after they stop accepting applications for the letter on December 12th

Actually- the letter is good for 6 months from the date on the letter you receive.  The application date from the BE may not be the one stamped on the letter.  In addition - if you apply  to immigration 30-45 days earlier than your extension- the letter is good to the date of application if it is not past 6 months. IMO- if BE really wanted to help their citizens fully- they could stamp each letter 31 December 2018 since you do not have to appear in person.

[doctormann]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually- the letter is good for 6 months from the date on the letter you receive.  The application date from the BE may not be the one stamped on the letter.  In addition - if you apply  to immigration 30-45 days earlier than your extension- the letter is good to the date of application if it is not past 6 months. IMO- if BE really wanted to help their citizens fully- they could stamp each letter 31 December 2018 since you do not have to appear in person.

Exactly, however they will not do this.

 

I enquired if the letters could be issued with the latest possible date - i.e. 31/12/18 and this is the reply that I received from the BE:

 

Dear *******

Thank you for your email. 

Unfortunately, we are unable to post-date the income letters that we issue; they will only show the date that your application was processed.

Many Immigration offices allow extensions to be applied for 45days in advance of the expiry date; therefore if your extension is due 22 June 2019, you may be able to apply at the beginning of May 2019, which means any letter dated December 2018 will be valid. However it is advisable to check the earliest date you can apply for your extension with your Immigration office. 

Kind Regards

Stacey Filer
Deputising Vice Consul
British Embassy Bangkok

Stacey misunderstood what I told her.  My actual extension is due on 22 July but I have usually done the biz 30 days in advance, i.e on 22 June.  Now, if I apply for the BE letter on 12/12/18 - last possible date - I may or may not be able to use the letter as it all depends on what date the BE issues it.  Applying for the extension 30 days early would be cutting it fine, to say the least.  45 days in advance would certainly work - if Jomptien Immigration will allow this.

 

I have a 90-day report coming up on 14/11/18 so I shall enquire and proceed accordingly.

 

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, doctormann said:

Applying for the extension 30 days early would be cutting it fine, to say the least.  45 days in advance would certainly work - if Jomptien Immigration will allow this.

I remember posts in this forum indicating if asked Jomtien will allow 45 days in advance- 

[doctormann]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

I remember posts in this forum indicating if asked Jomtien will allow 45 days in advance- 

I'll report back when I've asked them.

I know that they will allow 45 days in 'exceptional' circumstances.  I would hope that the current debacle qualifies as 'exceptional' but TiT so who knows!

[Thaidream]

31 minutes ago, doctormann said:

'll report back when I've asked them.

I know that they will allow 45 days in 'exceptional' circumstances.  I would hope that the current debacle qualifies as 'exceptional' but TiT so who knows!

I  remember some posts indicating that people had travel plans and Jomtien said OK for 45 days early . 

[Patriot1066]

30 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I  remember some posts indicating that people had travel plans and Jomtien said OK for 45 days early . 

If you get a multiple entry and leave does your 90 day not start back on your first day of returning?

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

f you get a multiple entry and leave does your 90 day not start back on your first day of returning?

A assume you mean a multiple re-entry permit. Your report would be due 90 days from the date you enter the country.

I wonder though why you are asking about that in this topic. Ninety day reporting has nothing to do with this discussion.

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

A assume you mean a multiple re-entry permit. Your report would be due 90 days from the date you enter the country.

I wonder though why you are asking about that in this topic. Ninety day reporting has nothing to do with this discussion.

Woops posted in wrong topic

 

apologies

[Jingthing]

Foreign documents aren't acceptable to Immigration.
Even the US Embassy stated they cannot verify SS incomes.
 
The average SS income is I believe around $20,000 per annum, barely enough to qualify for 'marriage' extensions.
Without additional proof of income the 'retirement' extension is beyond reach.

No. The average is even lower than that. In any case the combination method still stands meaning a lower pension can still be very useful.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. The average is even lower than that. In any case the combination method still stands meaning a lower pension can still be very useful.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Can you still use pension and funds up to the same value as the full year? How do you prove your pension do you need to have the documentation or is it going straight into a bank account in Thailand?

[OneeyedJohn]

What disturbs me after being told here that a visit to immigration would yield nothing helpful, is if the proof of income letter I acquire later this month will still be valid ( extension to stay expires 29.01.2019 )  as far as the local immigration officers are concerned.

I would like to see confirmation from somewhere that the 6 months validity really does apply.

 

52 quid isn't a lot of money, but I'd rather not waste it on a useless bit of paper.

Edited November 1, 2018 by OneeyedJohn

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I would like to see confirmation from somewhere that the 6 months validity really does apply.

Look at this document posted several times in recent days,

by example here :

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1065147-just-received-some-bad-news-for-us-citizens-no-more-income-affidavits/?page=124&tab=comments#comment-13519619

 

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Look at this document posted several times in recent days,

by example here :

I don't see it in the post you linked to. Here is the download of Immigration directive for income letters.pdf

[tropo]

11 hours ago, soalbundy said:

The strange thing is though we aren't hearing reports of other nationalities having their embassies letters questioned or refused. If this was a purely verification problem then everybody would be affected who use the income method, this appears to me like a 'you've upset the system' problem and Brits and Americans are now the whipping boys.

As an Australian, I'm not taking any chances. Having to renew by end of July, I had only 2 appointment date options available at the end of December to book for a stat declaration signing at my embassy that would make the 6 months cut off date for validity if I apply for my extension 30 days early. This is just in case they stop issuing these at the end of this year. As yet, all other appointments slots are available for that week (27th and 28th only), so most people have faith they will continue to issue them. I don't. Worst come to the worst and I'm still good until mid-2020.  

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No. The average is even lower than that. In any case the combination method still stands meaning a lower pension can still be very useful.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

How does the combination method still stand after June?

No 'affidavit', no proof of income.

 

As the situation stands it will be 400K or 800K deposited in a Thai bank from July onwards.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

How does the combination method still stand after June?

No 'affidavit', no proof of income.

 

As the situation stands it will be 400K or 800K deposited in a Thai bank from July onwards.

Who knows?

It stands now. 

Nobody knows yet what the actual situation will be for income method applicants that can't get an embassy letter in future. The combination method is just a variation of the income method. 

[Mike Teavee]

Australia is the latest embassy to announce they’re stopping issuing the income letters...

 

Thread discussing all the same things as this/US thread here   https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1066282-australia-joins-the-uk-and-usa-with-withdrawal-of-income-verification/

[bigginhill]

This post is for those who like I don't have the 800,000 available to sit on the account, and used the combination method. (I am very pleased for the rest of you who meet the requirements).

 

At this point it would be useful to know if the agents will still be able to work, I don't know the correct terminology but by using their funds to top up for the required 3 months.

Also

Also will the 65,000 have to come in from foreign accounts? 

I have no benefit from immigration that I own the condo in Thailand, and having read the forum on tax declaration on rent I believe it is feasible. So I could rent the property and use the income but it wouldn't be a foreign income. 

 

I know that none of us may know the answer at the moment but it seems it's pointless thinking of getting the income letter back. Plan B needs to be thought about.

 

What is the word Stacey uses for the income letter "perceived" that is income is verified? How about they added at the bottom of the letter "declaration non verified"? I believe it already says as much, but if that was the problem it just needed 3 words so as not to have possibily been "perceived" or whatever word she used in her letter.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by bigginhill
edit

[bigginhill]

And as it seems that this forum maybe read by higher authorities, I would like to suggest like many others before me that Immigration could consider PR for those who have been here for   tot years. 

Also who owns where they live has a discount on the 800,000 seeing as they obviously don't have to pay rent and cannot end up homeless.

[bigginhill]

just got on to BE site to do my last income letter, and downloaded the form

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671934/Pension_04_01_2018.pdf

this is the top of the form it states "This letter is a Thai requirement....." and that the issuing of the visa is at the discretion of Thai Immigration.

Could we have some evidence of what happened. Has anyone had anything back after their requests of FOI?

 

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

just got on to BE site to do my last income letter, and downloaded the form

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671934/Pension_04_01_2018.pdf

this is the top of the form it states "This letter is a Thai requirement....." and that the issuing of the visa is at the discretion of Thai Immigration.

Could we have some evidence of what happened. Has anyone had anything back after their requests of FOI?

 

It matches their caveat, 'nothing to do with us, we verify nothing', that's right, show the bull the red flag.

[billd766]

32 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It matches their caveat, 'nothing to do with us, we verify nothing', that's right, show the bull the red flag.

 

And the crew on the lifeboat from the sinking UK embassy said that they don't care about the passengers, so yah, boo and sucks to you. 

 

I am just trying to lighten the thread of doom, gloom and desperation.  TFIF.

Edited November 2, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[OJAS]

57 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

this is the top of the form it states "This letter is a Thai requirement....." and that the issuing of the visa is at the discretion of Thai Immigration.

All being well, the wording in bold will now come home to bite the Embassy in a particularly painful place!

Edited November 2, 2018 by OJAS

[Kalasin Jo]

The Aussie have just announced they too are stopping this service because Thai Immigration expect verification and they can't do this,  same as the BE

[Pattaya46]

11 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

The Aussie have just announced they too are stopping this service because Thai Immigration expect verification and they can't do this,  same as the BE

Just announced?

And 11 hours earlier :

Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[OneeyedJohn]

It shouldn't bother me but I just can't help thinking when I go to immigration probably in late December with proof of income letter in hand , that they will blurt out that an extension of stay based on retirement is only available if one can show 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to the application.

 

I only keep between 300 & 400K in my Thai bank so I wouldn't even qualify for a marriage visa should that scenario arise.