BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, PST said:

 

So how does that leave people who aren't retired yet, so don't have a pension?,,,ive lived here for over 10 years, married with kids, but now my letter of income wont be accepted to state that I have income of 40k per month or more, I now need 800k in the bank???,,,,what a joke

You seem to be in a position to show 400k as married to a Thai (I presume). Also other proof of income may suffice, the Phuket statement doesn't explicitly say not. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by jacko45k

[PST]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You seem to be in a position to show 400k as married to a Thai (I presume). Also other proof of income may suffice, the Phuket statement doesn't explicitly say not. 

That's True, however, its gone from 40k a month income ( verified with letter), to 400k, quite a difference. I was just about to apply for the letter of income from the British Embassy (as they are still issuing them until 12th December), but wondering if it's now worth it?,,,thoughts?

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, PST said:

That's True, however, its gone from 40k a month income ( verified with letter), to 400k, quite a difference. I was just about to apply for the letter of income from the British Embassy (as they are still issuing them until 12th December), but wondering if it's now worth it?,,,thoughts?

I hesitate to suggest anything as the situation is unclear, you would only potentially waste the cost to the British Embassy. Can you make plans to get the 400k sorted, or use combined income and deposit?

[PST]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

I hesitate to suggest anything as the situation is unclear, you would only potentially waste the cost to the British Embassy. Can you make plans to get the 400k sorted, or use combined income and deposit?

How does the combined income and deposit work?

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, PST said:

How does the combined income and deposit work?

Not an expert and I do not use it... I am sure someone will be along with better knowledge. I only believed if you could prove income equivalent to say 200k a year, showing a bank balance of 200k alongside would qualify and no deposit seasoning required. This is top of my head stuff so do your own research. 

[PST]

Just now, jacko45k said:

Not an expert and I do not use it... I am sure someone will be along with better knowledge. I only believed if you could prove income equivalent to say 200k a year, showing a bank balance of 200k alongside would qualify and no deposit seasoning required. This is top of my head stuff so do your own research. 

I will, but you suggested the combined income method, so I presumed (wrongly it seems) that you knew how it worked. Clearly not,

 

Thanks for your input anyway

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, PST said:

I will, but you suggested the combined income method, so I presumed (wrongly it seems) that you knew how it worked. Clearly not,

 

Thanks for your input anyway

The Combination method is only relevant to people who's income doesn't meet the 40/65K, which doesn't seem to be the case with you.

 

If they stop accepting proof of income for the 40/65K earners then the combination method would become irrelevant or (IMHO) at best relevant for government pension holders, which isn't the case with you.

 

MY BEST GUESS is that they will accept money brought into Thailand that meets the 40/65K (again guessing here but I think for a period of at least 3 months) or a Thai Tax certificate - I don't know if this is relevant to you.

 

Being the serial contingency planner that I am, in your shoes I would:-

1. Get the Income certificate in the hope that they stay true to their word/current policy and it will be valid for 6 months
2. Renew my Extension as soon as possible
3. Make plans to bring in 400k, especially if you cannot show the 40/65K coming in monthly from overseas or show a Thai Tax certificate but I would do (& have done) it anyway
4. Investigate the best options of getting to Savannakhet where you can get a 1 year Non-O Marriage Multi Entry with no financial proof required
5. If you make trips back to the UK, investigate getting a Non-OA (can get almost 2 years out of this)
6. Investigate the best options for "Visa Runs" (#4 requires doing a border hop every 90 days anyway)

 

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

4. Investigate the best options of getting to Savannakhet where you can get a 1 year Non-O Marriage Multi Entry with no financial proof required

 

6. Investigate the best options for "Visa Runs" (#4 requires doing a border hop every 90 days anyway)

He can get a 60 day extension for each 90 day entry. Do a border run after 5 months.

You could stay for almost 17 months if used correctly with only 3 border runs.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I hesitate to suggest anything as the situation is unclear, you would only potentially waste the cost to the British Embassy. Can you make plans to get the 400k sorted, or use combined income and deposit?

For an extension of stay based upon marriage there is no combination option. That is only possible for retirement.

1 hour ago, PST said:

How does the combined income and deposit work?

It does not work for you at all.

If it did it would be a combination of annual income and money in the bank to reach an unknown total since it not mentioned in the police order. I assume it might be 480k baht since that is the annual income required. For example 300k baht annual income and 180k baht in the bank.

[wayned]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For an extension of stay based upon marriage there is no combination option. That is only possible for retirement.

It does not work for you at all.

If it did it would be a combination of annual income and money in the bank to reach an unknown total since it not mentioned in the police order. I assume it might be 480k baht since that is the annual income required. For example 300k baht annual income and 180k baht in the bank.

Even if you use the combination method for a retirement extension, you still need the income affidavit from your embassy to  prove the monthly amount that you receive in adddition to the letter from the bank and your bank book to show the amount that you have deposited.  If the letter goes away, this option also does away.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, wayned said:

If the letter goes away, this option also does away.

That is correct and is assumed.

But we still don't know what will needed to prove income if you don't have proof of income from an embassy if any.

[Nurseynutcase]

13 hours ago, soleddy said:

How do the agencies do it? They cannot "lend" you 800,000 for 3 months--can they??

I actually do know someone who does this via an agency.  Bankbook and card + pin number handed over.  Also passport.  Takes two months and costs 30,000 baht - nice bit of interest on 800,000 for two months.!!!

[PST]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

The Combination method is only relevant to people who's income doesn't meet the 40/65K, which doesn't seem to be the case with you.

 

If they stop accepting proof of income for the 40/65K earners then the combination method would become irrelevant or (IMHO) at best relevant for government pension holders, which isn't the case with you.

 

MY BEST GUESS is that they will accept money brought into Thailand that meets the 40/65K (again guessing here but I think for a period of at least 3 months) or a Thai Tax certificate - I don't know if this is relevant to you.

 

Being the serial contingency planner that I am, in your shoes I would:-

1. Get the Income certificate in the hope that they stay true to their word/current policy and it will be valid for 6 months
2. Renew my Extension as soon as possible
3. Make plans to bring in 400k, especially if you cannot show the 40/65K coming in monthly from overseas or show a Thai Tax certificate but I would do (& have done) it anyway
4. Investigate the best options of getting to Savannakhet where you can get a 1 year Non-O Marriage Multi Entry with no financial proof required
5. If you make trips back to the UK, investigate getting a Non-OA (can get almost 2 years out of this)
6. Investigate the best options for "Visa Runs" (#4 requires doing a border hop every 90 days anyway)

 

Thanks, much appreciated. I already have a NON O, and have done for several years, this suits me, as I go back to the uk once/twice a year, so I only have to do 2, possibly 3 visa runs per year. Next year however, I may not be making a trip to the UK, so wanted to extend for a year based on marriage.

 

The dilemma for me, is that they may not accept the proof of income letter showing I have 40k income per month in my UK account (as they used to), so if I now need to prove I have 400k in a Thai bank account, this can't be done overnight, I was hoping to apply for extension the first week in December.

 

Regarding the NON 0-A, don't you have to be 50 years old to get that?, i'm 45 at present

[wayned]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is correct and is assumed.

But we still don't know what will needed to prove income if you don't have proof of income from an embassy if any.

That's true.  I doubt that we will unless our embassies form a team to coordinate with TI to find a resolution. I seriously doubt that this is going to happen, and, IMHO, TI will never accept each of us submitting proof of monthly income direct due to the fact that documents from different countries will be in their native language, not English. I can imagine what my IO would have to say if I gave her a government pension statement in Russian, Indian, Korean, or any other language other than English or Thai.

[JimGant]

34 minutes ago, wayned said:

Even if you use the combination method for a retirement extension, you still need the income affidavit from your embassy to  prove the monthly amount that you receive in adddition to the letter from the bank and your bank book to show the amount that you have deposited.  If the letter goes away, this option also does away.

A good guess is that the embassy income letter is going to be replaced with showing a Thai bank book with a year's worth of deposits, averaging out to X amount per month. No seasoned deposit in the bank? That X amount will be 65k per month. Can only manage to deposit 300k in the bank? Then that X amount will be 42k per month, so that in combination with the 300k deposit, you reach that magic 800k amount.

 

Obviously, upon initiation, it will be hard for most to show the necessary average deposit amount over the previous 12 month period. Thus, some kind of phase in requirement will be necessary. But for the following renewal of extension, yes, a 12 month history will need to be shown.

 

Anyway, just a guess -- which is about all we have yet to go on.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, wayned said:

That's true.  I doubt that we will unless our embassies form a team to coordinate with TI to find a resolution. I seriously doubt that this is going to happen, and, IMHO, TI will never accept each of us submitting proof of monthly income direct due to the fact that documents from different countries will be in their native language, not English. I can imagine what my IO would have to say if I gave her a government pension statement in Russian, Indian, Korean, or any other language other than English or Thai.

That is why the proof that has been mentioned in the anncements is income of 40/65k baht going into a Thai bank. The other documents could be proof of he source of that income if needed.

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, doctormann said:

More of the same from Stacey at the BE:

 

This in response to a query regarding what, if anything, has been negotiated with TI to replace the Income Letters and seeking an assurance that letters issued before the end of the year would be valid for six months.

 

Pretty much a standard reply that adds nothing to what we know - or don't know - already.  Totally unsatisfactory, in my view.  Make of it what you will!

 

 

Dear ************

Thank you for your email.

In order to apply for/renew your visa, you will need to ensure the financial requirement of the visa is met by having the minimum funds in a Thai bank account. You will be able to demonstrate that you meet the financial requirement by showing Immigration your bank statements. You may also need a letter from your bank. 

According to Thai Immigration's website and the "Order of the Immigration Bureau No. 327/2557, Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand", applicants must have evidence of an income of at least 65,000 THB per month or the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than 800,000 THB for the past three months. Unfortunately, as the requirements for a Thai visa are dealt with by the Thai Immigration department we are unable confirm what documents will be accepted as evidence of income. Immigrations own website https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_visa_extension_all makes no mention of the need to have a letter from an embassy for proof of income. 

Unfortunately, the renewal of Thai Visas is an Immigration matter, and the British Embassy cannot confirm how early you can renew your visa. It does appear that different provinces have different rules. I therefore suggest you confirm this with your local Immigration Office. 

Thai Law states income letters provided by Embassies are valid for 6 months. However, as has always been the case, it is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer as to what evidence they will accept, and whether to grant the extension or not. Unfortunately, the British Embassy, or any other Embassy does not have the ability to advise Immigration on what documents they should accept.

Kind Regards

Stacey
 

But at least Stacey now appears to have come clean on the Embassy's part and, in effect, readily admitted, through the sentence which I have highlighted in bold, that their so-called "agreement" with the Immigration Bureau regarding the verification of monthly income by immigration officrs through sighting it in a Thai bank account is, in fact, a load of BS nonsense, as most of us on here suspected all along.

Edited November 23, 2018 by OJAS

[jimn]

40 minutes ago, PST said:

Thanks, much appreciated. I already have a NON O, and have done for several years, this suits me, as I go back to the uk once/twice a year, so I only have to do 2, possibly 3 visa runs per year. Next year however, I may not be making a trip to the UK, so wanted to extend for a year based on marriage.

 

The dilemma for me, is that they may not accept the proof of income letter showing I have 40k income per month in my UK account (as they used to), so if I now need to prove I have 400k in a Thai bank account, this can't be done overnight, I was hoping to apply for extension the first week in December.

 

Regarding the NON 0-A, don't you have to be 50 years old to get that?, i'm 45 at present

In an earlier post you mentioned embassy letter. Apply for it mate, do it now or you will run out of time, I have just got mine. It is supposed to be valid for 6 months, no reason why this should not be honoured. Dont listen to the ramblings of one rougue immigration head.

[Mike Teavee]

58 minutes ago, PST said:

Thanks, much appreciated. I already have a NON O, and have done for several years, this suits me, as I go back to the uk once/twice a year, so I only have to do 2, possibly 3 visa runs per year. Next year however, I may not be making a trip to the UK, so wanted to extend for a year based on marriage.

 

The dilemma for me, is that they may not accept the proof of income letter showing I have 40k income per month in my UK account (as they used to), so if I now need to prove I have 400k in a Thai bank account, this can't be done overnight, I was hoping to apply for extension the first week in December.

 

Regarding the NON 0-A, don't you have to be 50 years old to get that?, i'm 45 at present

Apologies you are correct the Non-OA is only available for over 50s & I just did a quick check on the Hull Embassy page (London one is pretty useless) & they're saying that they can now only issue a 90 Day Single Entry for Marriage (Could be that London can issue the one year 1, but I couldn't see it on either site).

 

You will be fine getting the Income Certificate & Extension 1st week in December, then you've got 12 months to see how things are (could be a storm in a teacup) or make plans to get the money over.

 

Good Luck ???? 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

55 minutes ago, JimGant said:

A good guess is that the embassy income letter is going to be replaced with showing a Thai bank book with a year's worth of deposits, averaging out to X amount per month. No seasoned deposit in the bank? That X amount will be 65k per month. Can only manage to deposit 300k in the bank? Then that X amount will be 42k per month, so that in combination with the 300k deposit, you reach that magic 800k amount.

 

Obviously, upon initiation, it will be hard for most to show the necessary average deposit amount over the previous 12 month period. Thus, some kind of phase in requirement will be necessary. But for the following renewal of extension, yes, a 12 month history will need to be shown.

 

Anyway, just a guess -- which is about all we have yet to go on.

That's the Sensible approach but the Sensible thing to do would have been to make this clear 6-12 months ago with an official statement saying that was the new policy and a table showing sliding scale of months of proof e.g. announcement in June:

• Extension due in December = 6 months proof needed
• Extension due in March = 9 months proof needed
• Extension due the following June & beyond = 12 months proof

... Not exactly difficult to do, just takes a bit of forward planning (I'll stop dreaming now)

 

[wayned]

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is why the proof that has been mentioned in the anncements is income of 40/65k baht going into a Thai bank. The other documents could be proof of he source of that income if needed.

What announcements?  Have you seen any "official" announcements about this new procedure?  Until something is published by Thai Immigration, not the BE, the USE or any other source, it is only hearsay!

[OJAS]

13 hours ago, billd766 said:

I agree with your comment.

 

The embassy staff have no problems at all as they are on diplomatic visas.

 

A classic case of pull up the ladder Jack, cos I don't give a sh*t.

Typical of HM Government's general attitude towards us expats, I think, Bill - as also exemplified by the additional bureaucratic hassles which they have imposed on us over the past few years in the areas of passport renewal and State Pension life certificates!

[KhunFred]

5 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Typical of HM Government's general attitude towards us expats, I think, Bill - as also exemplified by the additional bureaucratic hassles which they have imposed on us over the past few years in the areas of passport renewal and State Pension life certificates!

Bashing the British government is kind of pointless since ALL embassy personnel from all countries seem insulated from those they are supposed to serve. Why should the UK be any different?

[Nielsen]

The decision to stop issuing the letter by the BE must surely have been forced upon them. Considering the profit they must have been making with the +/- THB 2000 fee.

 

I read somewhere that bank statements (bank books) showing the regular monthly income will in future suffice. Can anyone corroborate this ? If so, then it will be a money saver for us pensioners. 

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

That's the Sensible approach but the Sensible thing to do would have been to make this clear 6-12 months ago with an official statement saying that was the new policy and a table showing sliding scale of months of proof e.g. announcement in June:

• Extension due in December = 6 months proof needed
• Extension due in March = 9 months proof needed
• Extension due the following June & beyond = 12 months proof

... Not exactly difficult to do, just takes a bit of forward planning (I'll stop dreaming now)

 

All 4 embassies who have (to date) withdrawn their income confirmation services could (and IMHO should) have made their announcements immediately after last May's meeting with the Immigration Bureau at which this whole issue was apparently first raised. This would then have given us an extra 5-6 months in order to devise alternative financial arrangements. As things stand, retirees who will need to renew their annual extensions from July (and who have hitherto done so on the basis of 65k monthly income) are going to find 800k from somewhere by as soon as next April in order to meet the seasoning requirement!

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, wayned said:

What announcements?  Have you seen any "official" announcements about this new procedure?  Until something is published by Thai Immigration, not the BE, the USE or any other source, it is only hearsay!

Just the embassies. One of them stated they were told that in a meeting with immigration.

This from a PDF posted on the ACS webpage. https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq_income_affidavit.pdf

Quote

 As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements for retiree visas directly with Royal Thai Immigration by providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or evidence of having an income of at least 65,000 Thai Baht per month. Applicants should refer to the above-referenced websites for specifics regarding the timing and conditions associated with these deposits.

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Nielsen said:

I read somewhere that bank statements (bank books) showing the regular monthly income will in future suffice. Can anyone corroborate this ? If so, then it will be a money saver for us pensioners. 

As already said numerous times on this particular thread, this is certainly a possibility which the British Embassy have been suggesting in their fantasy world. But, until or unless the Immigration Bureau issue a specific order or directive confirming otherwise, those of us whose embassies are withdrawing their income confirmation services should IMHO assume that seasoned bank balances will be the strict order of the day from the middle of next year, and plan accordingly.

Edited November 23, 2018 by OJAS

[evadgib]

Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it, but it nonetheless explains that there's a little more to the job than expending unnecessary man hours on notary bumff that serves no purpose whatsoever to the issuing Govt:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inside-the-foreign-office-bbc-series-2018

Edited November 23, 2018 by evadgib

[wayned]

49 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Just the embassies. One of them stated they were told that in a meeting with immigration.

This from a PDF posted on the ACS webpage. https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq_income_affidavit.pdf

 

The link that they give in the ref document is a link to the original Thai Immigration site that says: " Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month;'.  That's what it has said for years and doesn't require you to have 65000 baht/month transferred into a Thai bank account.  There is absolutely nowhere in The site that says as of October 26 that Immigration will accept anything other than what they have accepted for years, the Income affidavits.  Have you asked your local immigration office if  they will accept proof rather than the Income Affidavit since according to the USE website they will after 26 October and it's now 23 November.  I live about 100 kilometers from mine or I would go in and ask again as I did  on 16 October were the IO told me no Income Affidavit or proof of 800000 deposit, no extension.  I think that the Embassy is just putting out more "Fake" news!

[PST]

Does anyone know if you can email the British Embassy the application form etc for proof of income, or by post only?